Is Carra Past It? What's the Ideal CB Partnership?

Or, more likely, Carra is trying to give it to Gerrard.

Cop yerself on lad.

 Don't be daft. Carra gets accused of trying to hit front men, not Gerrard. I wonder if you actually get to watch the football sometimes. I think you're that busy with your clipboard, chalking stats into columns you forget what's actually going on .

Don't be daft. Carra gets accused of trying to hit front men, not Gerrard. I wonder if you actually get to watch the football sometimes. I think you're that busy with your clipboard, chalking stats into columns you forget what's actually going on .

Mm, hmm

Carry on hanging yerself lad.

Carragher is slowing down admittedly however he is a great tackler of the ball, and does lead the defense very well, but the biggest problem i have with him, is his lack of ambition when on the ball, he always goes for the easy option to lump it forward, he is not patient enough to pick a pass, or when he is, it is a backwards pass to Pepe.

Carragher is slowing down admittedly however he is a great tackler of the ball, and does lead the defense very well, but the biggest problem i have with him, is his lack of ambition when on the ball, he always goes for the easy option to lump it forward, he is not patient enough to pick a pass, or when he is, it is a backwards pass to Pepe.

As Hansen would say "Put it in the stand lad, if you have any doubts"

As Hansen would say "Put it in the stand lad, if you have any doubts"

Yeah if Carragher thinks like that, then his always in bloody doubt

Yeah if Carragher thinks like that, then his always in bloody doubt

Better safe than sorry is his motto, and while that might be admirable in some quarters, that's not what we need.

We need some flair.

Better safe than sorry is his motto, and while that might be admirable in some quarters, that's not what we need.

We need some flair.

We need to build from the back, if we are to play pass and move football, we need defenders who can join in as well, all be it its not as important as the midfield, but if the spine of the team can play pass and move football, it obviously going to be more beneficial then not, Agger needs to step up in regards to his leading qualities if he can do that, then he would e the complete CB, IMO.

I'd like to see Agger in front of the back 4 with Lucas next to him.

I'd like to see Agger in front of the back 4 with Lucas next to him.

Bit risky that, at times Agger seems clueless at what do once he has taken on several midfielders, and shoots, he won't have that time and space to shoot all the time, think that would be too risky, and we would more then likely loose the ball via him.

Bit risky that, at times Agger seems clueless at what do once he has taken on several midfielders, and shoots, he won't have that time and space to shoot all the time, think that would be too risky, and we would more then likely loose the ball via him.

In fairness, that's as a CB - I think he'd do much better in front of the back 4, or as a sweeper.

We need to build from the front, if we are to play pass and move football, we need defenders who can join in as well, all be it its not as important as the midfield, but if the spine of the team can play pass and move football, it obviously going to be more beneficial then not, Agger needs to step up in regards to his leading qualities if he can do that, then he would e the complete CB, IMO.

Not for me. You build from the back and go from there. Defenders first and foremost need to defend. That's the problem i have with the 4 lads we have at the moment, i don't have confidence in any of the partnerships we have and if it isn't remedied the club won't get anywhere near to achieving their potential this season. And as for pass and move, if I see our CB's passing the ball to midfielders and then regularly bombing forward into more advanced positions (this for me is the general concept of pass & move) then I'll be bricking it. It's great to have a player who can step out with the ball, commit a defender or two and create space for others but by and large, this pass & move football that gets talked about so often ISN'T particularly dependent on having genuine ball playing centre-halves. Everybody creams themselves when Agger goes on a little foray but not enough attention is paid to his defensive abilities which are pretty solid but by no means is he the potential world beater that is often suggested. It often seems to me that the longer he is out injured the better he seems to get in the eyes of many reds.

Not for me. You build from the back and go from there. Defenders first and foremost need to defend. That's the problem I have with the 4 lads we have at the moment, I don't have confidence in any of the partnerships we have and if it isn't remedied the club won't get anywhere near to achieving their potential this season. And as for pass and move, if I see our CB's passing the ball to midfielders and then regularly bombing forward into more advanced positions (this for me is the general concept of pass & move) then I'll be bricking it. It's great to have a player who can step out with the ball, commit a defender or two and create space for others but by and large, this pass & move football that gets talked about so often ISN'T particularly dependent on having genuine ball playing centre-halves. Everybody creams themselves when Agger goes on a little foray but not enough attention is paid to his defensive abilities which are pretty solid but by no means is he the potential world beater that is often suggested. It often seems to me that the longer he is out injured the better he seems to get in the eyes of many reds.

I meant back, my bad. The point i am trying to make is, that if we are to play pass and move football our center backs need to be able to participate as well, yes the defensive side of things is more important but the player in question would not be playing as CB if they cannot defend, more often then not its the attacking, passing side that needs tweaking.

I meant back, my bad. The point I am trying to make is, that if we are to play pass and move football our center backs need to be able to participate as well, yes the defensive side of things is more important but the player in question would not be playing as CB if they cannot defend, more often then not its the attacking, passing side that needs tweaking.

I see what you're saying dude and of course you'd love to have a couple of guys back there who are comfortable on the ball, two footed and composed enough to pass it well. The mancs have had Ferdinand for years and he pretty much ticks all of those boxes but for the most part he's making 5, 10, 15 yard passes to his CB partner, to the fullback on his side of the pitch or to a midfielder in close(ish) proximity. I think that if your middies are up to the task (ie. show for the ball, willing to take a pass in traffic, give good angles and demand the ball) and you trust them (and this bit is key) and your full-backs are half-decent then you don't really need your CBs to be special on the ball. You just want them to see the options in front of them and give the ball to someone who knows better what to do with it.

For me, Carra's hoofing and passing is a secondary point. My primary concern is that he is getting slower. Speed was never his main asset, but his spacial awareness and tackling was. The worry is that as he gets slower, his tackling gets later and pacy players can expose him easier.

Now, this won't be such a problem if we have Dagger playing regulary, because he has pace and can cover, but he's too injury prone. We need another top notch centre back with pace and aerial ability. If that happens, then Carra can go on for another two seasons. His leadership qualities, organisational skills and positioning are more important than the negatives.

Scotts on the money. Too often with our midfield nobody shows. The centre halves have to go long, and people have a go at them for hoofing it. Either that, or one of our midfielders gets it, rolls it back five yards to them and they have to go long. In that scenario, people still have a go at them for hoofing it, but they praise up the fella who knocked it five yards because he did so successfully. 

I think the problem is a little more fundamental than the players not showing up for the ball to be honest... Sure, Carra and Skrtel can be criticized for not distributing it better from the back than they do, but then again most defenders arent expected to do an Agger and carry the ball up the field to start attacking moves... Lucas is also rightly criticized for not taking more risks but then again he is limited in terms of abilities and what he does is a reflection of what he is capable of...

Our problem imo is with the tactical decisions made by the management regarding the roles of different players and their positions on the pitch... A perfect example of that problem is Meireles last season... For the majority of the season he was played don the flank or behind the striker (by both Hodgson and Kenny).. For Portugal, he always plays as a holding midfielder in an Alonso like role. Same for Porto before he signed for us... For one reason or the other, we decided that a midfield duo of Spearing and Lucas was a better combination that a Meireles Lucas one... In turn, that led to a bigger gap between (the two defensive midfielders + the defenders) and the attacking players.. We also seem to largely disregard the role that wide midfielders can have in coming back and helping fullbacks in advancing the ball through the flanks by pushing them higher up the pitch and relying on our central players to bring the ball out.. etc etc

All such factors imo have combined to make us more predictable and rigid when it comes to starting attacks even when playing under Kenny in many occasions...

Is Carra past it?

I'm not so sure as although I have been critical of him at times over the last season or two he was, in my opinion, our best defender last season especially when Kenny took over. As a defender I still think he is the best at the club but his weaknesses are becoming more obvious as he is getting caught out much more often and the last ditch challenge is more evident in his game.

Out of the current squad Agger is the man to play alongside him as Carra is an excellent organiser and Agger while being a quality defender himself has that bit extra to his game with his distribution and a little bit more pace.

I do think we need another CB and not sure who I'd prefer but a solid defender who complements Agger would be ideal which would leave us less reliant on Carra should his form dip again this season.

No Carra isn't past it by any means. He started badly last season (but who didnt?) but was back to top form from when Kenny returned. He gives us leadership and gets the defence organised well which is something that the other centre backs lack. Just hope he cuts out the punts upfield and gives it simple to the midfield lads.

We all know about his injury problems but Agger is Carra's perfect partner for me. When fit and on form one of the best centre backs in the league so these two for me.

PS. I'm the forum Geoff Strong! Who the fook is that!?!

Go learn your history then!!

Played for us under Shankly. Scored the winner to send us to over first ever European Final at Hampden Park.

As for Carra, I'll be honest, if Skrtel was fit, I'd start him alongside Agger instead of jamie and have him as back-up.

Agger's just cementing his spot as number one choice. Another top display.

Hate to say it but i think he has been in decline recently

If we had a deep line then i still think he is one of the best but a higher line is obviously always going to be a problem for an aging player and i think this year will see us playing quite high up the pitch. So however much it hurts i think that
A) Skrtel and Agger will be our first choice center back pairing
B) Either of those players could be improved upon. With Skrtel being inconsistent and Agger being injury prown

So i think that having a new defender is paramount to our success this season

The biggest problem is how do we replace a player that has been behind every recent success. I really think that replacing Stevie would be easier, Jamie Carragher is one of a kind

Past it suggests he has nothing to offer, where has he can certainly still do a job I just dont see that job being a regular 1st choice.

He hits every ball long and not necessarily to a Liverpool man i.e he will just hit it for the sake of it. And he will be skinned for pace as well thus will lead to giving away more fouls possibily penos and pick up more cards.. Great man to have as cover but for me we need a new man in there with Agger

Ya learn something new everyday!

Know ya LFC History mate 

If the question is is Carragher past his peak when he was at the height of his powers the obvious answer is yes.