Dalglish's immunity to mistakes

Why do people think this thread emanated from the fact we drew on Saturday?

I've merely noticed that people have been bias in the way they talk about Dalglish. Many have acknowledged that they are not afraid of speaking the truth and highlighting his mistakes, but in actuality this is not really the case. Perhaps he's not made that many mistakes to talk about but I know had it been some other manager there would be a lot less tolerance. I saw last season where Roy got slated a lot for his team selection. Kenny took the job fielded similar lineups and people shivered quietly wondering what's going on? Some indifferent decisions going our way and some of them didn't no one questioned him afterwards.

How far in the season will it go for us to tolerate a similar thing to the Hodgson regime? I am by no means saying that we'll be anywhere remotely close but I am saying we need to look at things objectively at times. Dalglish came back players got spirited, Dalglish settled in, players dip in form towards the end of the season. We have to be careful of how whimsical we can be. I for one will be behind the manager's decisions and support him regardless if I agree with him. But I am also very prepared to state where he has been wrong.

Ofcourse Kenny has earned more respect, and has more credit than many other managers. Why would that surprise anyone after all he has accomplished and done for us? He makes mistakes yeah, but why wouldn't we have more faith in him than in some other managers we've had?

We can all say that we treat and judge each everyone equally here, but that's not true. If we'd sign Messi, then you all know he'd get more credit than some unknown player that hasn't accomplished anything. Sometimes you just have faith in someone's ability. And everybody makes mistakes, but the season just started, give it some time.

But I am also very prepared to state where he has been wrong.

Signing Jimmy Carter, David Speedie and playing Barry Venison in midfield.

Yes fans moaned about his decisions back then too!

I get the feeling the feel-good-factor is slowly dying out as the results become that more demanding and the results do not represent the expectation.

Results? We've played one F***ing game and drew 1-1 

Brave topic to start but valid one. Kenny got his tactics wrong Saturday and i was extremely disappointed with the amount of long ball in the second half. Ain't the first time I've seen us hoofing with Carroll on the pitch. If kenny doesn't want this he should stop it he is the manager

I don't think anyone has a problem saying "Kenny made a mistake". My problem personally is that every time we don't win people start saying well Kenny did this, this and this wrong.

Yawn.

Exactly.

What makes me laugh, is the same people who have called all and sundry "knee jerkers" in the past, the same people who urged everyone to "back the manager FFS" and predicted that "these same c***s will be turning on Kenny before you know it" are in fact the biggest knee jerkers, and the first people to turn on any manager before you know it.

On Saturday, the first game of the season, we had ever so many players making their debuts, ever so many players plainly not fit yet, and most of the team playing together for the first time. We played well first half, and faded second half and the crew are roaming the streets. Their chosen targets are Kenny "for making mistakes", Adam "because he's a fat c***" and an 18 year old kid at full back for getting caught under the flight of the football. It's as sickening to see as it is laughable because the vast majority of the criticisms are so ill-informed it is ridiculous.

Most of the people criticising Flanaghan for example have absolutely no idea whatsoever, no notion at all where he really ought to have been and what he did wrong. They flagrantly advertise their ingorance and lack of knowledge, wearing it like a badge of honour. It's a joke really, almost as big a joke as accusing a Premiership footballer of being "fat" in these days of nutritionists, body mass index's and daily wieghing of players. The same people who laud Rafa for revolutionialising our backroom approach, now say we have someone who is "a fat c***" playing in our first team. And as for Kenny, these supposed selectorial mistakes he has made, because we drew 1-1 with Sunderland. You really couldn't make it up, but some of them still do.

Feel good factor is dying down at the start of the season? Holy F**k! Some people need to go on medication.
Nobody, not even the King is immune to having mistakes discussed on a football forum, but whether or not he got the line up wrong on Saturday is down to each persons views on who should play where.
If we had scored the penalty and Carrol's goal had stood, there wouldn't even be a discussion on whether or not Kenny got it wrong.
This topic seems a little Knee jerk to me. Football can be frustrating, but you have to take the good times and the bad, BUT THIS IS HARDLY "THE BAD"
Keep the faith people!

Valid criticisms is not knee jerking. He is now our manager he makes decision with fans Will agree with or disagree with. That are what forums are for. He Will make mistakes. I dont see any over the top criticism in this thread and it is valid. Kenny made mistakes Saturday if people want to bury there heads in the sand that is their entitlement

Valid criticisms is not knee jerking. He is now our manager he makes decision with fans Will agree with or disagree with. That are what forums are for. He Will make mistakes. I dont see any over the top criticism in this thread and it is valid. Kenny made mistakes Saturday if people want to bury there heads in the sand that is their entitlement

Fair enough, he made mistakes, but are we going to have a new topic like this every time we lose or draw a game? Maybe we should just have a "WHERE DID KENNY GO WRONG THIS WEEK" thread

Just an observation really but the whole premise of this thread seems to revolve around "One should be immune from criticism for giving an opinion that Dalglish has made mistakes"   not "Dalglish's immunity to mistakes" (which makes no sense by the way).

That out of the way, surely we can all agree that:

* Kenny is not immune to (making) mistakes - how can he be, he's only human, we all make them.

* Kenny is not immune to criticism - as he's very clearly been criticised on this forum.

* If one can offer an opinion that criticises the manager and claim it's legitimate to do so then one can surely accept that it's every bit 'legit' to offer an opinion which differs or calls to task and vice-versa... (sauce for the goose and all that). That's the life blood of any forum: opinion.

Maybe we should just have a "WHERE DID KENNY GO WRONG THIS WEEK" thread

Ha ha, I like that and it does make sense.

He has and is going to make mistakes, we should be able to criticize them, but in the end who else would we rather have at the helm? Literally no other person in my opinion

This pretty much sums up how i feel but some people feel that if you criticize kenny then you are a judas.

Looks like Andre Villas-Boas got it wrong also.....sack him, off with his head  

Wouldn't be surprised if the Chavs were already calling for his head!
[quote

* If one can offer an opinion that criticises the manager and claim it's legitimate to do so then one can surely accept that it's every bit 'legit' to offer an opinion which differs or calls to task and vice-versa... (sauce for the goose and all that). That's the life blood of any forum: opinion.

[/quote]I may not like what you have to say, but i will defend to the death, your right to say it!

The second half was disappointing - but as other posters pointed out we could have been 4-0 up at that point and that would certainly change perspective.

Bottom line is - with all new personnel I don't expect us to hit full stride till Oct / Nov and yes that does mean we could be a few points off the other CL contenders so we need to be patient.

The Aquilani position will (I'm sure) become clear.

In short - Kenny is neither immune to mistakes nor criticism but we need patience and balance.

Just my tuppenceworth 

Certainly this time last year, had we drawn with Sunderland at home in that manner (we sort of did really) I think the manager would have had much more stick than the players - this year it seems more the other way round......

I'm happy to wait till I think he has made a mistake before I criticise him. 

Every man makes mistakes. Therefore, every manager makes mistakes with his football team.

I partially agree that there will be many fans who will be too afraid to criticise anything Kenny does, but in some ways that's a good thing.

I'm happy to point out when I think he's made a mistake, for example on Saturday, starting Flanagan over Kelly and leaving Kuyt on the bench was a mistake IMO. But if he chooses Flanagan over Kelly for the next match, I'll trust him, given the fact he's the manager, wants what's best for the club, and knows more what's going on at the club than I do.

Kelly may have looked less sharp than Flannagan in the last training session, or he may have chosen to leave Kuyt on the bench so we had a really good attacker as an option to bring on to change the game. So it's hard to ever say he made a mistake and be 100% sure of it.

And I think he'd probably admit if he made a mistake anyway. 

Everyone makes mistakes, KK's role is to help minimize them.  If he, or at least if some think he has, makes them, aren't they valid discussion points?

Of course, KK isn't and shouldn't be immune to criticism as long it is constructive and well thought out, like most of the stuff I've read about the match. However we have to be careful that impatience doesn't start creeping in like it did during the second half, as in the first half the atmosphere was really good and positive. I'm sure it won't be long for the moaning old tw*ts start up.

i think it's refreshing that KK is less prone to knee-jerk reactions. the game nowdays descends into personal insults and unfair criticisms way too quickly. We should be more patient with managers in general, especially someone like KK who doesn;t need the extra preassure from fans - he puts more than enough on himself as it is.

but as some have rightly pointed out, we're more than entitled to pass constructive criticisms. like how kelly should have started instead of flanno.

Tacticaly Kenny got it wrong imo. Kuyt should have started. No question. Henderson against his former team it was always going to be tough plus playing him as an right winger? Never going to be productive. Then in the second half he brings on Meireles and puts him on the left and switches Downing into the center which made Carroll an impotent force as there were no crosses at all coming in.  Also Flanaghan was struggling all game. Why didn't Kelly start. You go for your tried and trusted players especially the opening game of the season. Kenny made glaring mistakes on Saturday.  

How are we actually defining a 'mistake'?  Something that we don't agree with and we think played a key role in us conceding a goal or losing?

The second half on Saturday was poor, but I don't see where mistakes were made by the manager.  He obviously did not say to the players at half time, 'right lads, I want long ball, and disjointed passing this half', I'd guess he would have said 'more of the same.'  The players tired for whatever reason and this probably contributed to more long ball and misplaced passes. 

The players made some errors in the second half, one, collectively leading to a goal being conceded, but say for example had Kelly have played, and scored an OG, would that have been a mistake by Kenny?

Back during KD's first stint, I saw Stan Staunton play as a striker, in midfield and at left back.  As someone said earlier, Barry Venison (where is he now?) played in midfield and Jan Molby played many games in central defence.  I guess these would be classed as 'mistakes' in some people's eyes?

Tacticaly Kenny got it wrong imo. Kuyt should have started. No question. Henderson against his former team it was always going to be tough plus playing him as an right winger? Never going to be productive. Then in the second half he brings on Meireles and puts him on the left and switches Downing into the center which made Carroll an impotent force as there were no crosses at all coming in.  Also Flanaghan was struggling all game. Why didn't Kelly start. You go for your tried and trusted players especially the opening game of the season. Kenny made glaring mistakes on Saturday. 

Henderson is NOT a right winger, I thought everyone knew that.  He can play on the right and was obviously put in the team to do a job, ie cut inside and join the attacks etc.  We weren't playing an orthodox 4-4-2 (I think it was 4-2-3-1), it was more flexible and Downing was our wide player, switching wings throughout the game.

Flanno had some problems, but Nostradamus would not have predicted that after the form he showed last season.  Players have bad games but to then turn them into managerial errors is hindsight gone crazy.

Title of this thread is mis-spelt. DALGLISH is with 2 L's.

Harsh to judge a man after one game i think ! what we must remember ,and i'm not making excuses . is that this match was the first premiership match together for a few of them so they need time to gel and get used to each other,the pre-season games are against a different type of team and so can.t be compared ,sure Kenny will make mistakes and i.m sure he would be the first to admit to that ,wait and see and have patience