One point better off than last season...

Quality of chance is of course more important than quantity if you're willing to accept a pot shot from 35yards is a chance that will skew any statistics, however since we've all watched the games this season a huge amount of our chances are from inside the box also and to attempt to deflect strength from the statistics by pointing out the exceptions is not arguing from a balanced perspective. Yes Downing hits the odd shot from 35 yards but also Martin Kelly misses from 3 yards out with no keeper to beat.

I would agree that the quality of our chances created are not the highest and clearly Manure must be creating higher quality chances to have such a higher conversion rate than us but I would not agree that the statistics presented are biased because we rain shots in all day long from 35 yards. To be hitting the posts on such regular basis tells you what chances we're creating, these are as close to a goal as you can get along with penalties and the mere facts regarding our number of posts and penalty misses fully justifies anyone who wants to argue that our league position is not a true reflection of our current performance level.

So while I'll agree our results at home have been disgraceful for us and Liverpool should never settle for 2nd let alone 4th in the league I wont accept that we aren't progressing and that given a couple of signings we can progress further into the champions league and take our club from a complete disaster just a year and a half ago back into the top tier of European football. We are Liverpool Football Club and we are all about winning leagues and trophies however anyone not realising the monumental task that Kenny took on to get us back on top and expecting us suddenly to rocket back to the summit of the league was overburdening expectations and setting themselves up for disappointment.

We've secured our first trophy for 6 years, that in itself is a massive achievement considering the changes we made in the summer and the teams we had to beat along the way, we've already had to knock out the Mancs in the FA Cup and we've every chance of progressing further in that and hopefully filling the cabinet with more silverware so if our only failure this year is to have the most dire chance conversion rate imaginable in the league then we haven't done half bad. I share everyone's disappointment if, and it's still possible we might make it, we miss the CL this year but I'm not going to lose all perspective and sound like the fella off Dad's army screaming we're doomed, we're all doomed because we're on the up after a long time on the down so I'm optimistic for our future as I'm sure most are.

So chances created is. Only stat i think has improved from last season.  I asked its yesterday but ill ask it again have people forgotten the football we were playing this time last season.  In terms of our points total two points was woy not managing us for half the season last season and were we not in the europa league. We people not assume these were good excuses for such a low points return at this stage last season

I'll presume you mean position in the table as points gained is all relative to the amount of points other clubs get.

Now don't be complicating things you rascal. You are right though mate and that's a fact.

We could finish, say, fifth with less points than last season or we could finish, say, ninth with more. Now... if "the only stat that matters is points on the board" then, theoretically, we could finish ninth but have progressed. Brilliant.

 

So chances created is. Only stat i think has improved from last season.  I asked its yesterday but ill ask it again have people forgotten the football we were playing this time last season.  In terms of our points total two points was woy not managing us for half the season last season and were we not in the europa league. We people not assume these were good excuses for such a low points return at this stage last season

? not a clue what you are trying to say.

So chances created is. Only stat i think has improved from last season.  I asked its yesterday but ill ask it again have people forgotten the football we were playing this time last season.  In terms of our points total two points was woy not managing us for half the season last season and were we not in the europa league. We people not assume these were good excuses for such a low points return at this stage last season

I honestly don't know what your trying to prove.

We have agreed that 7th isn't good enough for us but that in most peoples opinions we are playing good stuff but the luck hasn't been with us.

I'll ask this and please answer.

Are you saying we are playing crap and that to move forward we need to change managers.?

And you tend to avoid all questions aimed at you like the one I asked regarding Rafa.

It's becoming tedious.

Ye can read my post or ignore it. It still stands.

Ye can read my post or ignore it. It still stands.

As with 90% of those that you choose to ignore and have done again.

What is actually becoming tedious ive constantly stated managers need time bar Hodgson who i knew was going to be sh*te. We were playing better football this time last year that point seems to be conviently ignored by a lot of posters

Ye can read my post or ignore it. It still stands.

I appreciate English may not be your first language, but I honestly couldn't make head or tail of what you were saying.

Im ignoring i see no progression in the league from time last season and the chances created is an irrevelant stat.

I asked its yesterday but ill ask it again have people forgotten the football we were playing this time last season.

I haven't but I think you have forgotten the great football we have played this season.

By all accounts we played Arsenal off the pitch at the weekend and not the first time we have done that to teams this season.

Could it be that you choose to dismiss the good football being played as it involves players you didn't want us to sign in the summer?

What is actually becoming tedious ive constantly stated managers need time 

Yet Kenny is only entitled to one and a half seasons if we don't finish above 7th?

Despite winning our first silverware in 6 years?

I appreciate English may not be your first language, but I honestly couldn't make head or tail of what you were saying.

more loaded sh*te well done. Wind up comment which there is to many in this thread. Im being ganged up on here with numerous loaded comments so im out of this thread I'll let the rest of ye debate amongst yourselves. Like being back in a school yard.

I've got a headache...

I honestly don't know who is trying to prove what and why.

Corb I'd suggest practising what you preach mate. I genuinely enjoyed debating with you until the last couple of days.

more loaded sh*te well done. Wind up comment which there is to many in this thread. Im being ganged up on here with numerous loaded comments so im out of this thread I'll let the rest of ye debate amongst yourselves. Like being back in a school yard.

There won't be anymore debate really if you leave it because 99% of posters can see we are progressing even if not to where we want to be yet.

It's like having a chat with the riddler.

It's like having a chat with the riddler.

Oh. Holy. F**k. I nearly choked there.   

Another positive little stat. We have already won as many games away from home this season as we did in the whole of last season..... or the season before.

Quality of chance is of course more important than quantity if you're willing to accept a pot shot from 35yards is a chance that will skew any statistics, however since we've all watched the games this season a huge amount of our chances are from inside the box also and to attempt to deflect strength from the statistics by pointing out the exceptions is not arguing from a balanced perspective. Yes Downing hits the odd shot from 35 yards but also Martin Kelly misses from 3 yards out with no keeper to beat.

I would agree that the quality of our chances created are not the highest and clearly Manure must be creating higher quality chances to have such a higher conversion rate than us but I would not agree that the statistics presented are biased because we rain shots in all day long from 35 yards. To be hitting the posts on such regular basis tells you what chances we're creating, these are as close to a goal as you can get along with penalties and the mere facts regarding our number of posts and penalty misses fully justifies anyone who wants to argue that our league position is not a true reflection of our current performance level.

So while I'll agree our results at home have been disgraceful for us and Liverpool should never settle for 2nd let alone 4th in the league I wont accept that we aren't progressing and that given a couple of signings we can progress further into the champions league and take our club from a complete disaster just a year and a half ago back into the top tier of European football. We are Liverpool Football Club and we are all about winning leagues and trophies however anyone not realising the monumental task that Kenny took on to get us back on top and expecting us suddenly to rocket back to the summit of the league was overburdening expectations and setting themselves up for disappointment.

We've secured our first trophy for 6 years, that in itself is a massive achievement considering the changes we made in the summer and the teams we had to beat along the way, we've already had to knock out the Mancs in the FA Cup and we've every chance of progressing further in that and hopefully filling the cabinet with more silverware so if our only failure this year is to have the most dire chance conversion rate imaginable in the league then we haven't done half bad. I share everyone's disappointment if, and it's still possible we might make it, we miss the CL this year but I'm not going to lose all perspective and sound like the fella off Dad's army screaming we're doomed, we're all doomed because we're on the up after a long time on the down so I'm optimistic for our future as I'm sure most are.

Oi, stop polluting this topic with sense

Another example how you like to use stats when they suit you and then when they don't.

I get what you are saying Corb, I agree that we need one or two new players in attacking areas, I'd personally target a little locksmith type behind the front man first.

But I can't agree that for the most part we haven't played good football apart from maybe 3 games throughout the season.. But how many teams along the course of the season play well in all games? The side in the top 2-3 just find a way to win and this new side we have put together which is essentially 7 new players in a year hasn't found those ways yet.

I haven't come out of games often this season thinking this is a disaster where are we going? I've come out frustrated that we haven't taken chances we have created.

One or two top quality players in this side and we will be right up there. I still stand by the thought that we are in a false position in the league. Had we hit the bar half the time or put a couple more penaltys away we wouldn't be where we are.

Do we then, in all honesty, require 2-3 top class players though mate?

Twatting teams off the park and creating countless chances isn't the problem, our problem is finishing. And like I said yesterday, next year everything Carroll touches could fly into the back of the net, Kuyt could make another 15 goal season and Suarez might return to the goalscoring form he had at Ajax.

Obviously if two or three players that would benefit the first team became available at the right price then we should look to buy them. We should always be looking to improve the team. But I don't think spending for the sake of it is a need in the summer just to appease some fans who demand signings. All we've needed this season is a bit more luck, money can't buy us that.

Well the question has to be asked given our league position. But I look at it a different way.

I still think we have the best defensive unit in the league even without Lucas and we are creating more chance than almost anyone else. If we had simply take our penalties and half the shots that have hit the woodwork had gone in we'd be second. But they didnt and we deserve to be where we are; nevertheless we are potentially one Cavani/Torres/Soldado/Huntelaar away from competing for the title.

Thats completely different from the situation we were in last season - even without taking account of the cup competitions, Europe etc.

Do we then, in all honesty, require 2-3 top class players though mate?

Twatting teams off the park and creating countless chances isn't the problem, our problem is finishing. And like I said yesterday, next year everything Carroll touches could fly into the back of the net, Kuyt could make another 15 goal season and Suarez might return to the goalscoring form he had at Ajax.

Obviously if two or three players that would benefit the first team became available at the right price then we should look to buy them. We should always be looking to improve the team. But I don't think spending for the sake of it is a need in the summer just to appease some fans who demand signings. All we've needed this season is a bit more luck, money can't buy us that.

I know what you mean but the old adage that you improve when your on top, even in the old days we looked to improve so yes I think we do. As much as Charlie has actually exceeded my expectations to an extent I think we need a playmaker of better standing and or a locksmith type of behind the front men or wide right.

Dirk isn't getting any younger so you could argue a replacement there..

I think we need a couple of fresh faces adding to the squad to give the squad that kick up the backside/keeping on their toes and to improve on where we have undoubtedly already.

Not a wholesale change just one or two while it's our choice rather than when it's a necessity because then you need them to hit the ground running immediately.

Do we then, in all honesty, require 2-3 top class players though mate?

Twatting teams off the park and creating countless chances isn't the problem, our problem is finishing. And like I said yesterday, next year everything Carroll touches could fly into the back of the net, Kuyt could make another 15 goal season and Suarez might return to the goalscoring form he had at Ajax.

Obviously if two or three players that would benefit the first team became available at the right price then we should look to buy them. We should always be looking to improve the team. But I don't think spending for the sake of it is a need in the summer just to appease some fans who demand signings. All we've needed this season is a bit more luck, money can't buy us that.

I agree to a large extent mate, but I think we need another striker no matter what. We only have two who are regularly played in that position (Carroll and Suarez) with Kuyt and Bellamy more often asked to play in the wider areas. So while they can still be asked to play up front, it would be at the expense of weakening our options in other areas, and in truth neither are prolific enough.

I would bring in another striker, hopefully a prolific and clinical finisher who's game revolves around goals and being in the box as much as possible. Carroll I would use as our plan "B" in much the same way as we used Crouch.

   

Im ignoring i see no progression in the league from time last season and the chances created is an irrevelant stat.

This is the flaw in your logic Corbally because teams always play better when they score more goals due to the fact that the opponent has to attack more leaving more space, our most difficult games and where we've played well without reward has mostly been against teams who have parked the bus.

So to discuss from a balanced perspective would be to consider how well we would have played last year with a similar chance conversion rate to this and I'd be surprised if we'd have played much better than we are, I do concede we were playing better but I also note that we're without Lucas who is a massive loss for us in the centre of the park and I doubt many would try to argue that Charlie or Jay are an improvement upon him.

Your flaw as I mentioned is to dismiss the chances created out of hand because this is the basis of optimism by everyone who sees polar opposite to you, we do see that if the chances that are hitting the post go in, then teams will open up and our already decent play will become even more pleasing on the eye as space is gifted, it is by no surprise that we do well against the teams away from home or the bigger sides because they don't simply park the bus and grant more space by virtue of actually thinking they can win. Also consider that our form at the end of last season reflects in the attitude of teams coming to Anfield with no ambition to win but to completely stiffle us and still we have the highest chances created, yes Utd and City are banging in more goals but they're also playing against teams that have had a goal put in against them and are having to chase the game so the opportunity to create chances is greater for them.

I am not trying to say we're playing the best football in a century there is obvious room for improvement but your attitude is that we're regressing and our football is now worse than a year ago which I think is circumstantial and unfair based purely on the fact more goals were going in last year from the same players who are currently in the side or would you argue we were a better squad at the end of last year? (Aside from Meireles and Aquilani I don't think there is any possible way you could and with regards both of these we have settled discussions in thier separate threads as to why they left.)

The only people I think should be playing more are Maxi and Jonjo at the moment and I believe because Maxi is on his way Kenny is trying to build the team without him and as for Jonjo I actually think Kenny sees massive potential in Henderson (as do I but he frustrates the hell out of me) and he wants to play him continuously which I respect.