What League Position Is Unacceptable

I don't recall at the start of the season before a ball being kicked, our manager saying "how great it'd be for the most successful club in England to come fourth - the streets will be lined with Liverpool fans to watch us parade our fourth place finish" (or words to that affect).

Fourth is no achievement for Liverpool Football Club - end of.

Well our owner, John Henry, said before the season started, that Liverpool's target was to finish in the top 4 this season, and that it would be a major disappointment if we failed to do so. With that target spiralling down to the club through the season, and now quite a few players along with the manager stating that 4th is the target this season.

Realistically Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs have better first teams and squads than us. Very hard to accept, but 6th is where I believed we would finish this season. At this rate i would take 8th, which is unacceptable. whether or not this squad will gel, only time will tell. In my eyes only Man City are way ahead in terms of personnel. We are not that far behind the other 4 teams with a couple of changes. Someone like Tevez would make the difference between us and top four.

Right now, of course, it would be.........

No it wouldn't.

Well our owner, John Henry, said before the season started, that Liverpool "must finish in the top 4" this season. With that target spiralling down to the club through the season, and now quite a few players along with the manager stating that 4th is the target this season.

No he didn't. He said it'd be a major disappointment but he did not say it was a must. And of course now the players and Kenny would take fourth because anything higher looks unlikely. They weren't talking about fourth at the start of the season unlike some "fans".

No he didn't. He said it'd be a major disappointment but he did not say it was a must. And of course now the players and Kenny would take fourth because anything higher looks unlikely. They weren't talking about fourth at the start of the season unlike some "fans".

My apologise for copying the wrong phase. My iPad quoted the title of the article instead. But my point still stands, that John Henry stated that 4th was our target, before the season even started.

So yes, my point till stands.

Unless you're saying you still feel we can finish higher than 4th this season? Even in our current predicament.

I'm sort of glad this thread was started, because it gives an insight into the mindset of the modern fans expectations, it is clear that becoming 4th is the be all and end all and possible inclusion into the CL,

what a sad f***in day this is, the great knowledgeable LFC fan becoming no more better than your average glory hunter, it f***in sickens me that today's targets at the outset of the league is to finish 3 places behind the champions and still be considered a success,

Shanks, Sir Bob, and uncle Joe must be spinning in their graves, what a f***in sh*t attitude to have, 4th only exists because the money men decided to expand the qualification level in each of the leagues in European football, England being awarded 3 qualifying positions and 1 entry into a pre-qualifying 2 legged tie, Germany have 4, italy i think 3, Spain 4, France 3, etc, dont quote me on these figures but i'm sure this is how it works,

so say the rules were changed again and England awarded another placement, would that mean the 5th being acceptable ??


Sir Bob was asked once about the amount of success LFC were having at the time, of course Bob being his modest self said it was down to the players, and that he'd been here thru the bad times aswell, one year we were second he said,now that's what i call a winning and successful attitude, coming from the most successful manager in the history of not only Liverpool FC, but in British football,


to answer the thread's question, well, until it's mathematically impossible to finish 4th, i don't really care, 4th is not successful, winning 1 cup possibly 2, is, you dont win F**k all in 4th, your not guaranteed CL football only a qualifying match pre-season, when your unfit, rusty, more liable to injury,

some of you lot out there need to give your head's a wobble, get your head out of your arse and stand up for the club in all competitions that this club enter, and when we win,you can go to all your mates who believe 4th is successful and gloat about how much silverware there is in the cabinet, and not how many 4th spots you have,

8 times our club have won the league cup, 5 times we have won the European cup, that's just two examples of how successful this club is, these sort of figures i can remember, but ask me how many times we have finished 4th,forget it,

sadly i'm starting to believe that the older more worldly wise supporter/fan is becoming as rare as rocking horse sh*t, and eventually will be replaced by the glory hunting neg-heads who only sing when we're winning, and that position is totally unacceptable for our club.

                        IKWT    YNWA

This season with the cup win and hopefully another cup coming our way, I will not moan too much wherever we finish. Desperately disappointed in our results this season, angry with the way we have performed in a couple of games, with yesterday being one, but Kenny has earned the right to be given time and a real chance of success in the league. Sadly that league success isn't going to happen this season...... but next season he will.   

Hopefully we as a club know better than to follow Chelsea sacking managers every two minutes. We lead, not follow, and Kenny just needs a little time, a little faith and lots of money in the summer.

The title has to be the aim of any Liverpool manager, and while accountants and Champ manager players are happy with top 4 so they can celebrate a few million extra in the bank, I like most supporters prefer to celebrate winning trophies and league titles, it is up to Kenny to win them for us. He has made a start by winning our first trophy for 6 years , but he knows as well as we do, that is only a start, we and Kenny want and expect more..... much more.   

To be fair, whilst we are sitting in 7th place with the possibility of dropping to 8th on Tuesday, to me, 4th place THIS season would be more than acceptable but it seems pretty unlikely we will finish as high as 4th place, the position that many people are saying means nothing/is crap etc.

I think the club set out for a 4th place target in recent seasons to ensure Champions League football = £s.

Doesn't mean you can't finish higher than 4th just because that's the minimum target. Also doesn't mean your happy to finish 4th or would celebrate wildly finishing 4th but it is a more realistic target than finishing 1st with the squad we have at our disposal this season and when you look at the squads of the current top 4.

The fans particularly the older ones set out for a target of 1st every season but whilst we hover about between 5th and 10th all season, 4th is a more realistic expectation.

As for the cup competitions, simply, your in them to win them. This crap that the Europa League and the Carling Cup are second rate competitions that mean nothing are views that are spewed out every season by those that aren't good enough to win these competitions.

To summarise, in my opinion, you go in to every single game in every single competition to win it which if successful you would win the lot in one season.

Realistically, we're in a position to challenge and win the cup competitions at this moment in time, but not  to win the league without an improvement in the squad, eg a second world class striker, a higher quality midfield to go along with Gerrard and so on. Without major investment, it will be a struggle to win the league with the squads we are challenging against for it.

So f**king what if that's what he believes. That disproves nothing lad. Alls that proves is Johnson would rather play in the Champions League than win trophies, which is not The Liverpool Way. We exist to win trophies, first is first, we've had our bad seasons to - we came second once. That's what this club stands for. Trophies are more important than fourth.

But hey you believe otherwise, I'm not surprised since you were one of the first to say you'd take fourth before a ball was kicked. Nothing surprises me on here anymore. I've come to realise that the current Liverpool fan base is not the same as the one I was brought up by. And like most things in football, I prefer the past much more to the modern.

Your argument is null and void about not finishing in the top 4.

If we dont finish in the top 4

1) we havent wont the PL (our main trophy)

2) We cant even compete for the next biggest trophy CL

Top 4 is a minimum requirement whether we like it to be or not for financial stability, player recruitment and worldwide brand recognition.

The team that won the carling cup last year are now in the championship. It was our reserves tester when we had CL and europa will be next year for us aswell.

not jumping the gun, if I offered this league position along with a Carling Cup to 90% of the Liverpool fans I would be laughed at. I was simply asking the question when does our form become unnacceptable because to me it is right now.
A ticket to Europe? Werent we singing Thursday night football at the Utd fans at the last game, thats us next season. Thats also a second rate competition, nice to win but nothing to boast about. I wanna boast about Champions League wins, Premier League wins and FA cup wins, nothing else, I was brought up to expect the best from Liverpool, that is far from what I am getting right now, I am glad that at least some of you feel a Carling Cup is good enough for Liverpool F.C, having such low expectations must be great but to me a major competition is what we should be winning.
 I actually laugh when I think you are happy with a Carling Cup win, do you honestly think Shankly would of thought of that as a successful campaign?

We"re sorry you"re not getting your moneys worth, would you like a refund

Your argument is null and void about not finishing in the top 4.

If we dont finish in the top 4

1) we havent wont the PL (our main trophy)

2) We cant even compete for the next biggest trophy CL

Top 4 is a minimum requirement whether we like it to be or not for financial stability, player recruitment and worldwide brand recognition.

I agree with this. If we get to the point again where we are legitimate contenders, then 1st is the goal and anything less is a true disappointment. At this moment, and probably next season too, the aim is/was to get back in the CL to be playing elite clubs on weekdays again. And so 4th (at a minimum) needs to be accomplished. It gives us money, it gives us status, and those two things get us players who will help us win the Premier League and become perennial contenders for it again.

We can complain about not winning the league when we have a club that actually has a realistic chance to win it. We don't right now, unfortunately.  And since we don't have "oil money", we need to find the next best thing -- Champions League money.

Top 4 is a minimum requirement whether we like it to be or not for financial stability, player recruitment and worldwide brand recognition.

The team that won the carling cup last year are now in the championship. It was our reserves tester when we had CL and europa will be next year for us aswell.

We are financially stable, our best player signed when we weren't a Champions League club and Liverpool Football Club needs F**k all for brand recognition. We're as big as any club world wide, everybody knows who we are whether we're in the Champions League or not. That's why we have so many fans from the four corners of the globe. Go and see how many fans world wide Tottenham and City have, both who've been in the Champions League more recently than us. Better yet, go and see how many fans world wide Chelsea have. Or Rangers and Celtic who are regulars in the Champions League. End of the day, the Champions League is not the be all and end all for us. And we don't need it for anything. We need to win trophies, which we have. And which we will continue to do including League titles on a regular basis once again under Kenny Dalglish.

And the team that won the Carling Cup last year are not in the Championship - the club is but the team isn't. 8 of the 11 players who started for Birmingham at Wembley are no longer at the club. It was our "reserve tester" when we had people who disrespected the tournament, Kenny set his stall out from the off. I believe he'd continue to do this in the future.

Well, Glen Johnson did say how coming 4th was the main objective for Liverpool than winning the Carling Cup. So that kind of disproves your theory.

“I think it would be a failure to miss out on the Champions League,” said Johnson. “Purely because that was the main objective, but of course you’d rather not finish in the top four with a trophy, then end up with nothing from the season.
“The ideal is to finish in the top four certainly, but I think everyone is pleased we’ve got a trophy, and hopefully we can pick up another one.
“Definitely the main aim for this season, and every season, is the top four."

Yes but he got arrested trying to rob a toilet seat!!

So he's hardly a barometer of what is acceptable or success to Liverpool Football Club.

Question do you think our owners will spend the same amounts of money as sheik mansour

Stupid question as I don't think they have the same riches as the Abu Dhabi mob.

Well, Glen Johnson did say how coming 4th was the main objective for Liverpool than winning the Carling Cup. So that kind of disproves your theory.

“I think it would be a failure to miss out on the Champions League,” said Johnson. “Purely because that was the main objective, but of course you’d rather not finish in the top four with a trophy, then end up with nothing from the season.
“The ideal is to finish in the top four certainly, but I think everyone is pleased we’ve got a trophy, and hopefully we can pick up another one.
“Definitely the main aim for this season, and every season, is the top four."

Don't mean to shoot you down or anything mate but Steven Gerrard has said himself that he would rather win the Carling Cup then finish fourth, he said himself Liverpool FC is all about winning trophies, which is more important than coming fourth. So our expectations for each season is to win everything whether them expectations are too high or too low are another matter.

That is a very stupid question corbally

Liverpool Football Club needs F**k all for brand recognition. We're as big as any club world wide

How many top-caliber players like Hazard, Robben, Tevez, Aguero, Mata, Fabregas, etc. have had quotes (their own quotes, not some fanciful Sun article) saying that they were considering Liverpool since summer 2011 or 2012? I can't remember one.

Now, how many have been quoted that they are interested in Man City, Man United, Barca, Real, Chelsea, Arsenal.  Lots. 

We ARE well-known, I agree. And with a few key moves we can be back in the elite. But at the moment we are merely "that club that used to be big".

In terms of our trophy aspirations then obviously we aspire to be first in every competition we are in.

Naturally, this means we can always improve and that's a healthy ethos to have.

But in terms of how we should think about the team when we don't meet this ideal target, then if we are realistic, we ought to accept reasonable progress towards our targets. That is, we should 'accept' reasonable progress.

If not, then we should view the majority of the club's history as being 'unacceptable', since we have more often failed to satisfy our trophy aspirations than we have met them. If we took that view, we would be inclined to make irrational decisions about the future of the club.

This season, we are better off in trophy terms having won our first one in six seasons, while in the league, although many of our performances suggest otherwise, we are no further forward in our league position.

Simple as that, really.

Don't mean to shoot you down or anything mate but Steven Gerrard has said himself that he would rather win the Carling Cup then finish fourth, he said himself Liverpool FC is all about winning trophies, which is more important than coming fourth. So our expectations for each season is to win everything whether them expectations are too high or too low are another matter.

That's because Stevie has been brought up with a Liverpool education.

How many top-caliber players like Hazard, Robben, Tevez, Aguero, Mata, Fabregas, etc. have had quotes (their own quotes, not some fanciful Sun article) saying that they were considering Liverpool since summer 2011 or 2012? I can't remember one.

Now, how many have been quoted that they are interested in Man City, Man United, Barca, Real, Chelsea, Arsenal.  Lots. 

We ARE well-known, I agree. And with a few key moves we can be back in the elite. But at the moment we are merely "that club that used to be big".

We are a big club regardless of what players say they wanna be here or not. Regardless of whether we're in the Champions League or not. Regardless of if we have a massive stadium or not.

WE ARE A BIG CLUB

That's because Stevie has been brought up with a Liverpool education.

I am not from Liverpool and actually live in London, but i have said many times to friends the whole point of a club is to win trophies not where you finish in the league unless first, especially see myself saying it to the Arsenal fans who see finishing fourth as better than winning a trophy and even when i say a cup double they feel there 4th finish is better, same with united fans and second. As a supporter i want to see our players winning trophies and i want to be shitting myself watching them in penalty shoot outs in finals not scrapping over fourth, for me champions league is a bonus where as trophies are a must for the club.

I am not from Liverpool and actually live in London, but i have said many times to friends the whole point of a club is to win trophies not where you finish in the league unless first, especially see myself saying it to the Arsenal fans who see finishing fourth as better than winning a trophy and even when i say a cup double they feel there 4th finish is better, same with united fans and second. As a supporter i want to see our players winning trophies and i want to be shitting myself watching them in penalty shoot outs in finals not scrapping over fourth, for me champions league is a bonus where as trophies are a must for the club.

Well said mate 

Yes, but you wouldn't continue to be content if all we ever did was win domestic cups and made no progress in the league. Some competitions are more prestigious than others and we shouldn't kid ourselves otherwise. Yes, trophy success of any kind is welcome, but to maintain our reputation going forward, we need to be challenging for league titles and European cups.

Yes, but you wouldn't continue to be content if all we ever did was win domestic cups and made no progress in the league. Some competitions are more prestigious than others and we shouldn't kid ourselves otherwise. Yes, trophy success of any kind is welcome, but to maintain our reputation going forward, we need to be challenging for league titles and European cups.

And we will be soon.