If Carroll wasn't 35m

Im going to say it straight out. If Carroll was bought for 10m a year ago most of you will not be saying sell him. He is one for the future. Not many people have said sell Jordan Henderson because he is a bright prospect and wasnt a complete waste of money. So why isnt Andy Carroll and why are people asking him to be sold when he hasnt done anything that wrong. Im not saying Carroll has played well this year but you look at his stats from last year and he did quite a bit and he is only young.

So forget about his 35m price tag thats long gone.

I'm not sure that's the case mate.

I think there are some who would sell Carroll this summer even if we bought him for £10M as you say.

The price tag doesn't bother me too much either way but I would give Andy a bit more time as I do feel there is a better player there than he has shown for the majority of his Liverpool career and I also think that be it with us or some one else he will turn out a really good centre forward.

I said a few months back when nothing seemed to be going right for him that possibly Andy and Liverpool was just never going to work out and that may well still be the case but for a few weeks around the League Cup Final he was in a very good run if form but for whatever reason is out if the side again.

Im going to say it straight out. If Carroll was bought for 10m a year ago most of you will not be saying sell him. He is one for the future. Not many people have said sell Jordan Henderson because he is a bright prospect and wasnt a complete waste of money. So why isnt Andy Carroll and why are people asking him to be sold when he hasnt done anything that wrong. Im not saying Carroll has played well this year but you look at his stats from last year and he did quite a bit and he is only young.

So forget about his 35m price tag thats long gone.

You been back to Newcastle much these days, Andy?

Better put your tin helmet on mate, a tirade of abuse is incoming with this one.

Sure I can hear Corbally sharpening his knives in the distance.. 

I would honestly look to loan him out in the summer

Best case scenario if we sell him is a £25M hit. Plus a Villa or Fulham aint going to pay him what we are so a chunk of that £10M would be used to pay him off
Loan him out to a suitable PL club (one that will play a similar style to us but not Newcastle as if he is ever to do anything for Liverpool he needs to detach himself from home comforts)
Best case scenario he finds himself and comes back in 2013 raring to go looking a new player. 2nd best case scenario he does well, boosts his value but there is no room for him at Lpool so we get a good fee for him
The worst case scenario doing that isn't really too far from where we are just now

Better put your tin helmet on mate, a tirade of abuse is incoming with this one.

Sure I can hear Corbally sharpening his knives in the distance.. 

Jib the tin hat kid I'd get some kevlar.

Whether we bought him for 5 mil or 35 mil the minimum requirement is 100% effort and far too often when picked he hasn't given us that.

He's not alone though.

Sorry Big Andy but I totally disagree, the only difference would be we'd be saying at least we can get our money back. The fact that Andy Carroll cost £35m does not alter my opinion of him as a footballer, it only reflects the value we got, as a footballer I think he is extremely poor at many aspects of the game and I believe his injury must have something to do with his confidence to attack the ball, coupled to the nasty injury his sustained early on playing for us where he hyper-extended his knee because his presence in the box is not what you would expect of a man of his stature.

His hold up play is reasonable, but often his first touch lets him down if we're attacking at any pace, slow hold up play is not something you search for in a target man, we already had someone better than him in Ngog at that. His crossing has actually been the only thing I've been impressed with, but of course we don't want him doing that in any case. Dribbling skill is virtually none existant, in fact I can name the only time that I saw him actually beat a man with a nice turn and flick past, so once in a season does not constitute dribbling skill.

His interplay with players around him is not strong enough and his awareness of when a cross is going to be put into the box is alarming, the amount of times he's jogging into the box while the ball is sailing accross when he could of sprinted earlier and been in position is honestly his biggest flaw and something that if he doesn't grasp now I doubt he ever will as it's a basic of the game.

So my honest opinion would be to definitely sell if we bought him for £10m rather than my current opinion of possibly hold on to him if we can't get more than £15m just because I can see him develop into a player someone else will take a chance on, so the price tag might be the only thing that actually keeps him at the club because I doubt we can afford to take any more than a £20m (£13 adjusted for the books) loss on a single player.

I don't think the problem is solely down to Andy, I just don't think that Suarez and Andy's game complements each other. I think Suarez was bought to complement a fast mobile striker ...... Torres, and that Andy and Suarez are both handicapped by a lack of pace when played together.

I think both players would benefit by the addition of a fast clinical striker playing alongside them, rather than trying to adapt to each others game. I think if we bring in such a striker Andy may get pushed back to being a "plan B" initially, but as he grows in experience hopefully will become more of a genuine alternative to Suarez with the new fast striker.

He needs to get off his heels, anticipate better, make runs off the centreback and try to stay central rather than drifting into the wide areas, but for me without the right strike partner we will never see the best of him.

Certainly ignoring the fee, Andy would still hardly be considered a success on his showings so far, but he is young and has time to gain the experience that a target man needs. A fast prolific striker would make it much easier for him during this time while relieving some of the pressure on him to score. 

   

 

Im just saying that if Carroll was bought for 10m, many people will be saying keep as a sub and hope he gets better overtime as he is very young. But since he has a price tag on his head being 35m, people want to sell him which i see no point in because the amount of money we would get in return would be very low.

I see no point bringing in a player for the future and selling him before the future arrives. people are just getting swept up in the fu**ed up go go lifestyle and they want us to be some kind of chelsea esque nothing club that brings players in and out like a FIFA manager mode. get off the F***ing clubs back!!

Carroll is simply too limited to be anything but a squad player for a top 4 team IMO. He thrives on a direct game, a lot of high balls into him and he can win his fair percentage of them and get stuck in. But if he's in a more passing, technical team he has neither the pace nor the technical skills to thrive in a team like that.

Therefore IMO Carroll is not good enough for a top 4 team whether he cost £10m or £35m.  The fact we paid £35m simply means we pissed millions down the toilet. We're not the first big club to do it, and won't be the last.

I will say though, that he hasn't been given a real chance by Kenny because he hasn't started game after game in a row like Suarez. If Kenny sanctioned a £35m move for him then he should at least give the lad a lot of starts in a row to sink or swim. The way he plays him and then drops him for a few games is senseless.

Carroll, Henderson and Downing: the trident of fear. Unfortunately they strike fear into our investors and fans.

For the 70 million we spunked on them we could have bought 10 Lucas Leiva's. Now 3 of them would have worked out brilliantly at only a 30% success rate. THe wage bill probably would have been the same. We can't afford to waste that cash even if we did get the money as profit from Torres. sale. Seriously we should invest everything into recruiting players out of Barca's La Masia why they are still about 14. Give them a heap of cash and they will come. I would rather see a 14 year old La Masia prospect driving around with their Parents in an LFC funded Maserati thank Downing, Carroll, Henderson, Poulsen, etc etc. I love the way the press lambasted Rafa for his spends and yet The Qwl and Kenny get off relatively unscathed. Commolli should be made to watch tapes of these players who spend more time worrying about their hairdo and boot color than how to slip Suarez in on goal.

Carrol and Dwoning are not the future for many reasons. Hendo can become a good allround player in my view because I think he will do whatever it takes to get there.

It's not anybody fault Carroll cost £35m. He scored 11 goals for half season before joining us.
If we keep on keeping him on the bench he wouldn't get the chance to prove. 10 minutes playing time is big different to 90 minutes.
Why leaving him on the bench after digged out £35m?
Please look at the stats, when he start, we got good result.

I think the reason why people are so ready to ship him out is because if we cud raise anywhere near that 35mil price tag and reinvest it we cud likely spend it more wisely and improve further. We all accept we over paid for a number of reasons but we have nothing to gain and everything to lose by letting go now as wed get nowhere near that money for him

If he was bought for ten million id still think we over payed looking at his performances.  I actually think its one of Kennys biggest decisions this summer whether to take the loss and sell. I personally hope we sell so we can move on from this mess of a transfer.

From Paul Tomkins.

Andy Carroll

As noted by people on Twitter, Liverpool’s results in the last seven Carroll starts (after Bolton): WWDWDWW; but the last seven without Carroll starting (after Oldham): DDLLLLL. That’s quite some contrast.

TTT’s senior data analyst Dan Kennett posted some great stats on the eve of the Wigan game in the site’s comments section (which is worth the subscription fee on its own!).

(Even yesterday’s game, though not included, saw Liverpool do better with him on the pitch – ‘drawing’ 1-1 – than the 1-0 ‘defeat’ of the first half.)

    Liverpool (All Comps): P40 Win%=50, Points Per Game = 1.78

    Carroll starts: P22 W13 D5 L4, Win%=59, Points Per Game = 2.00
    Carroll doesn’t start: P18 W7 D6 L5, Win%=39, Points Per Game = 1.50

    In terms of ‘difficulty’:

    Carroll starts vs Teams higher in PL than Liverpool (All Comps v Arsenal, Chelsea, City, United, Newcastle, Spurs)
    P8 W5 D1 L2, Win%=63, Points Per Game = 2.00

    Carroll starts vs “the rest”
    P14 W8 D4 L2, Win%=57, Points Per Game = 2.00

    No Carroll start vs Teams higher
    P6 W1 D3 L2, Win%=17, Points Per Game = 1.00

    No Carroll start vs “the rest”
    P12 W6 D3 L3, Win%=50, Points Per Game = 1.75

    I think this is fascinating. Not only are the team’s results significantly better when Carroll plays, but the results with Carroll are exactly the same (2 points per game), whether versus “hard” or “easy” teams!

(Dan has subsequently worked out these stats across Carroll’s entire time at Liverpool and posted them in the site’s debate section, and they remain impressive.)

While Liverpool’s game can be less easy on the eye with Carroll in the side,  and the goals have not flowed for the no.9 as hoped, he’s certainly playing better of late; at least he was, until he started being left out.

There are too many other factors to prove conclusively that playing Carroll will lead to better results, but it’s better to have non-scoring strikers who help win games (through other contributions) than to have someone banging in a goal a game in 2-1 defeats. Either way, it’s food for thought.

Here is one time blood i dont agree with Tomkins. Im starting to have serious doubts Carroll is good enough for the premiership never mind Liverpool.  Tomkins has being trying to back up his target man argument about Carroll as often as he can.

I think this is fascinating. Not only are the team’s results significantly better when Carroll plays, but the results with Carroll are exactly the same (2 points per game), whether versus “hard” or “easy” teams!

I don't think it is necessarily the 'Carroll factor'.  I think it's the fact that when he plays we tend to play 2 up front.

Tomkins article was good but it also had several flaws such as 'it was our first bad home performance'.  That was wrong - Swansea was awful.

Agree all this shows is Suarez plays better with a two. A lot of talk is suggesting Suarez is better as a second striker and was rarely leading the line playing with ajax. I think Kenny playing him as a lone striker is a mistake. Kenny needs to target a quick striker in the summer with good movement

Agree all this shows is Suarez plays better with a two. A lot of talk is suggesting Suarez is better as a second striker and was rarely leading the line playing with ajax. I think Kenny playing him as a lone striker is a mistake. Kenny needs to target a quick striker in the summer with good movement

Both Carroll and Suarez need someone up front with them. Suarez is too little and not quick enough being alone and Carroll gets dommed in the air by himself. Players like Torres, Drogbra can play by themselves.

Agree all this shows is Suarez plays better with a two. A lot of talk is suggesting Suarez is better as a second striker and was rarely leading the line playing with ajax. I think Kenny playing him as a lone striker is a mistake. Kenny needs to target a quick striker in the summer with good movement

Cavani - his strike partner for Uruguay

Cavani - his strike partner for Uruguay

Never will happen Kb that guy is immense.
I reckon we could snag David Villa if we are really suttle about it. Cant see him being a part of Barcas squad anymore.

In all honesty the price tag dont bother me if it was five mill or 35 mill the minimum requirement is hard work and effort and on that front i think he has failed miserably ,granted he has improved a bit recently ,but he will never be mobile or strong enough to carry the line in a league winning team, 

All we hear is that the crosses into the box are not good enough well i would like someone to show me Andy busting a gut to get on the end of one because i havn,t seen it, Downing has not set the place alight but just recently has put a fair few good crosses into the box not one has been met by the head of carroll he just cant stand there and hope it lands on his head he has to bust a gut and he is not ,at the moment there is more movement in the statue of liberty.