Success is not playing in the Premiership

I was reading Didi Hamann's book yesterday and he said something about why he thinks England will never win any international tournaments until the next generation or for the next few years at least.

Why?

Because alot of English footballers feel that once they've made their debuts in the Premiership, they've made it. This 'attitude' probably led to the downfall of the England national team in recent tournaments but does it apply for Liverpool FC as well?

Take a look back at the early 2000s or before. Michael Owen, Robbie Fowler, Steven Gerrard, Jamie Carragher (granted they both look like they don't care either) and before that, King Kenny himself, Ian Rush, Peter Beardsley, John Barnes and more all know how hard they have worked in the past to be where they are at/where they were. Maybe this also suggests why our football team was better under Houlier and Rafa?

Under Gerard, we had the English local lads + Owen who worked their socks off with the help of experienced internationals. Under Rafa, we probably only had Gerrard and Carragher as the English representatives and the first eleven consisted of a Spanish/Polish goalkeeper, Spanish and Norweign fullbacks, a big Finn, the Kaiser, Luis Garcia and Xabi Alonso.

Arsenal were fairly criticised for their lack of local players but they've continued on and on playing pretty decent stuff, though winless. I know alot of other teams, particularly the ones in lower part of the league or in other division consists mostly of English/British players but they are not playing for Liverpool FC, hence, they know there's still alot of work needed to be done and effort to be put in.

Seems to me our 'English' players think they can just turn up in a Liverpool FC top and get the result. Henderson, Downing, Carroll and Adam (Scottish i know but still!) in particular, probably think making their debuts for Liverpool FC means they've made it.

I'm not saying England players are not good (while I actually think majority of them aren't ) but the point is, Hamann added that the foreigners that come to the Premier League could deal with the wealth of the Premiership. Take a look at Luis Suarez for example, he probably knows how hard he had worked to get here and he doesn't let the money or privilege of playing in the Premiership get to him because success is not making your Premier League debut.

I don't think you should emphasize on the importance of attitude or ''arrogance'' its more the the fact that England do not produce enough young quality players. Look at the Dutch for example, the amount of excellent youth players they produce is outstanding, we got ripped apart in the next gen series by the Ajax youth team. The Germans and the Spanish are another example, they teach their youngsters how to play proper football, pass and move, pressing, tactics and technique. I don't see this in the England team, the english coaching system rely on athleticism, high endurance, stamina and physical attributes, so they don't develop as proper footballers, just athletes, that's why England will never be in the same class as the Germans, Spanish and Dutch and that's why they never do well in tournaments.

Its the success of the PL thats bites you.
Money money money.
Ticket prices through the roof and mercenary players.
Squeezing out English talent.
Its an ever escalating cycle.

One day the House Of Cards will fall down.

I don't think that has anything to do with the lack of succes for the English national team either. It's well known that there's a problem in English football as far as developing youth goes, there's a severe lack of UEFA qualified coaches aswell.

I think regardless of nationality, players play for different things. Some are more interested in the money and lifestyle. But I think anyone who joins a club of our level dreams of winning things. But maybe not everybody is willing to make the same sacrifices.

We have made the classic mistake of buying players to aim to get into the top four instead of buying players to win the league.

Didnt someone once say "Aim for the sky and you'll reach the ceiling. Aim for the ceiling and you'll stay on the floor."?

Not sure i agree with Didi on this mate, i don't think the premiership would exist without the foriegn players who have lit up English/British football, local players have been sadly on the wane for years not because of the foreign players coming in but of the lack of investment in local areas, whether from local councils and or government,

in our case for example Stevie G and Carra were the last to to come thru LFC ranks before the re-birth of the academy,

as with other clubs with the exception of Mancs, players were bought in rather than home grown,

as far as England not winning any major comp that is down purely to the FA, the managers they choose to manage and their contiuous interference, not since Sir Alf have England even came close to any sort of success, dear old Bobby Robson got closest, why?

because whoever is manager they are still f***in about with who to play and where leading up to the actual competition, even in the pre-comp friendlies they still dont have a settled squad or starting 11, take the last two majors, because the FA insist that Gerrard and Lampard were the best two midfielders in the land they had to be in the side, but it never worked for me, it hampered attacking, and was even detrimental to defenders,

they didn't compliment each other and that weakened the team,

Didi with respect should know better having served his own country so well,and imo will be the team to watch in future comps, they, Germany, already showed how well they are managed in the WC and are my favs to win the Euro's, because they introduced their young lads early and got them used to playing in majors, but not England, even in meaningless friendlies the same old players play and that hampers the kids of the future,we alraedy know what the regulars can do, so why not blood the younger lads, give them confidence and of course valuable experience,

back on to the domestic front,i'd like to see Kenny introduce a few more of the reserve lads before the seasons end, we're out of the CL spots now and apart from the FA cup our league campaign is over, so i would start blooding the kids in preparation for next season and wipe away any sort of stagefright when debut's are made,

success is playing in the premiership because it is the best league in the world, it's where players make their money, playing for their respective countries is a bonus and obviously a priviledge.

                  In Kenny WE Trust                YNWA

This article gives a good picture on what is wrong with English football: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jun/01/football-coach-shortage-england

But I think he has a point, though and it does make a little sense.

Foreigners worked hard as a young child in their football developement in their respective countries and do what it all takes to make it to the Premiership, the "best football league" in the world. You see tons of African or South American footballers who started out playing in the streets or other European players coming from poorer areas in Spain, Netherlands or France. When they eventually come to the Premier League, they don't get carried away that easily. And as they say, 'you reap what you sow'.

While it is no doubt Ajax and Barca's La Masia have very good coaches and all that, they still needed to put in work to actually play in the first team, their dreams. Not exactly all of the kids at La Masia end up playing for Barcelona. The likes of Pepe Reina, Mikel Arteta and Cesc Fabregas to come back stronger. Yeah, maybe not many quality players are coming out from the English youth system but I guess it also depends on how they've been as a person whilst growing up as a footballer.

As for the English players, developing in the English environment where the best football league is, it is not a surprise when some actually feel they've made it when they made their debuts. I remember in Stevie's book, at a young age, he was criticised by Gerard Houlier for feeling he already made it but there were still alot of work to be done. He eventually became a much, much better player.

I'm just suggesting, though, it's not exactly proven!

Spain, Netherlands and France Adryan? Those countries aren't exactly poorer than England. So why are you concluding that those players come from a different background than English players? The majority of the Dutch national team come from a very comfortable background, for instance.

And that article I posted isn't about the coaches at professional clubs like Ajax and Barcelona. Spain's 24.000 coaches don't all coach at professional clubs, the vast majority of those coach amateur clubs. That's where it all starts. It's all about knowhow at grassroots level.

Generally speaking, the way a coach selects players, the attributes they scout on, the way they train and develop players, the tactics and formation they use etc. is all influenced by how knowledgeable and qualified a coach is. My country(Netherlands) have about 1.2 million players. And we have 16000 qualified coaches, that's 1 for every 75 players. I coach a youth team myself too, and I know every amateur club here needs to have at least 1 qualified coach. And every amateur team that plays at a decent level, regardless of the age level, needs to have 1 qualified coach aswell. So it's really just a consequence of rules set by the Dutch FA.

If England have about 3000 qualified coaches, considering the amount of professional leagues in England, that tells me there are close to none qualified coaches at amateur clubs. These are the amateur clubs that professional clubs get their players from. Or maybe currently, not getting their players from because they're just not producing quality talent.

To be honest if we were winning games I don't think this topic would be brought up , it seems we are totally disallusioned with everything thats happening at the club , the buys that King Kenny has made have been an absolute disaster and if the club has to take a big hit in the summer then so be it but as for people screaming for his head I think they are well off the mark we are only 3 points down at the same stage last season .

Some years ago there was no 25 men squad rule forcing to have 8 home grown players / 25 senior member of the squad (players under 19 don't count iirc).

Now there is one. May explain why we recruited british players.

To be able to recruit more adult foreign players we need 8 british senior players. Without these 8 the maximum squad size is reduced (we ended registering only 21 squad members last year iirc).

Some years ago there was no 25 men squad rule forcing to have 8 home grown players / 25 senior member of the squad (players under 19 don't count iirc).

Now there is one. May explain why we recruited british players.

To be able to recruit more adult foreign players we need 8 british senior players. Without these 8 the maximum squad size is reduced (we ended registering only 21 squad members last year iirc).

The problem is that that rule does not actually help English player development much, considering being homegrown says nothing about your nationality. Compared to Germany, they have a minimum of 12 German players at each youth level rule, which is way more helpful as far as German player development goes. In addition to all other things they did to improve player development like mandatory academies for clubs with a set of guidelines for quality and coaching, and setting up 121 talent centers across the country to help youth develop on a technical level aswell. If anything, England should try to replicate Germany's system to improve overall quality of the English players being produced.

Spain, Netherlands and France Adryan? Those countries aren't exactly poorer than England. So why are you concluding that those players come from a different background than English players? The majority of the Dutch national team come from a very comfortable background, for instance.

And that article I posted isn't about the coaches at professional clubs like Ajax and Barcelona. Spain's 24.000 coaches don't all coach at professional clubs, the vast majority of those coach amateur clubs. That's where it all starts. It's all about knowhow at grassroots level.

Generally speaking, the way a coach selects players, the attributes they scout on, the way they train and develop players, the tactics and formation they use etc. is all influenced by how knowledgeable and qualified a coach is. My country(Netherlands) have about 1.2 million players. And we have 16000 qualified coaches, that's 1 for every 75 players. I coach a youth team myself too, and I know every amateur club here needs to have at least 1 qualified coach. And every amateur team that plays at a decent level, regardless of the age level, needs to have 1 qualified coach aswell. So it's really just a consequence of rules set by the Dutch FA.

If England have about 3000 qualified coaches, considering the amount of professional leagues in England, that tells me there are close to none qualified coaches at amateur clubs. These are the amateur clubs that professional clubs get their players from. Or maybe currently, not getting their players from because they're just not producing quality talent.

exactly, this is where proper football is being trained and that's why youth from Holland are way better than youth in England