Top Four! Top Four! Top Four!

It's every bit as valid a question as your's Plantman. You ask what we'll "take"; like we have an option... I'm asking (as we don't have an option) what difference does it make? 

I was only pointing out that; you, like me, will have to "take" whatever is on offer. I'm sorry if I offended you; I certainly didn't mean to.

I'll try again - would you "take" a 12th place finish and if you wouldn't "take" it; what would you do?

In answer to your 'question' I'll be happy as a dog with two dicks if we win all 'round us - However I'll "take" the same again because I've no other option. Again... sorry if I've caused offence.

No worries mate, we all want the same thing, sometimes peoples posts can be tagged with a tone of voice if you know what i mean.

all i was trying to assess was a target, and i think next year we will get back in CL and i would take that, to get those big Europe games back, and i think this cup double (hopefully) will be the start of it.

I'd take relegation and still be there

It's every bit as valid a question as your's Plantman. You ask what we'll "take"; like we have an option... I'm asking (as we don't have an option) what difference does it make? 

I was only pointing out that; you, like me, will have to "take" whatever is on offer. I'm sorry if I offended you; I certainly didn't mean to.

I'll try again - would you "take" a 12th place finish and if you wouldn't "take" it; what would you do?

In answer to your 'question' I'll be happy as a dog with two dicks if we win all 'round us - However I'll "take" the same again because I've no other option. Again... sorry if I've caused offence.

Edit: I've obviously picked you up wrong; I hadn't realised you were merely offering a, hypothetical, one off choice based on if we had a final say on the outcome... (bit too much to smoke)... On that basis (if I was 'God') then, in all honesty, you can put me down for Champions League qualification but only if it leads to more trophies. 

Ultimately Bub your right, it's our job to support and sit back and enjoy the ride.. Even if we win nothing for the next 40 years I'd like to think we would do just that.. Support.


As much as we would all love have nights like Istanbul again if it doesn't happen overnight should we really be stamping our feet moaning? As supporters we should enjoy this fantastic game.. Sit back and enjoy the ride..
I'm convinced we will get to sleep with Sandra again.. She will wait.. She will eventually get bored with the dry humping she gets from Arsenal and the money pored at her from Chelsea will dry up eventually and she will realise that they are nothing but an empty sole less pile of sh*t and she will be waiting for us with arms ( legs) wide open... She will realise the stories she has heard were true and that we are steeped in experience and that whilst we have been making do with Sarah from accounts that we are ready to dive back into some fantastic nights once again..





Summing up:

Yes I want us to get back into the champions league next season 

She will eventually get bored with the dry humping she gets from Arsenal

Laughing my moobs off here. 

But you're right... the dirty bit with the big ears ain't going anywhere.

 If we'd finished top four and been knocked out of the cups early, the same people who are whinging now would be whinging that we've gone too long without winning a trophy.

 We've got a chance of winning two trophies in one season, which would be two more than Arsenal have won for years, two more than Spurs have won for years, two more than Newcastle have practically won in their history, two more than either one or the other of Man Utd or Man City will win this season, and two more than we've won for six seasons.

 As the topic starter points out, we could finish fourth and still only be in the Europa League Cup thingie. It's bollocks. Winning trophies and going to Wembley on the other hand in Kenny's first season is a fantastic achievement.

Is going to mean f**k all if Chelsea win the CL.

Maybe some 'fans' should ponder that point the next time they forget that the ethos of Liverpool FC is that it exists to win the competitions it enters.  Not finish as the third runner up.

Just thought I'd re post JD's original post as it seems a few have missed the point after reading through the tread just now.

It's not really a question of if winning the League Cup is better than qualifying for the Champions League but highlighting that while the media, and many of our own fans both on here and otherwise, have been going on about how important 'top four is but it now could happen that top four will mean as much as 6th place in terms of where it leaves a team next season.

Is going to mean f**k all if Chelsea win the CL.

Maybe some 'fans' should ponder that point the next time they forget that the ethos of Liverpool FC is that it exists to win the competitions it enters.  Not finish as the third runner up.

I want to win things too, that's why I want to finish top 4. You're not going to win the CL if you don't.

I want to win things too, that's why I want to finish top 4. You're not going to win the CL if you don't.

That is true Bier but there are too many, and I don't include yourself here, who see finishing top four and just playing in the Champions League as success.

It isn't and never will be.

That is true Bier but there are too many, and I don't include yourself here, who see finishing top four and just playing in the Champions League as success.

It isn't and never will be.

But it is the first step towards real glory. Even winning the league is unlikely(not impossible) if you don't finish top 4 the season before, or at least compete for the top 4 the season before. We're almost 40 points behind 1st place, that's a huge gap. And it works like that with the CL too, our team is going to be relatively inexperienced in the CL. We need to get back into it to build up and make a real push.

Get Rafa back, he'd get us into the top 4 

Anybody who seriously thinks that winning domestic trophies like the carlng cup is better than finishing in a CL spot (1,2,3 4th whatever) is delusional & living in the past.

Why because Sky said so.

And isn't the league a domestic trophy and we still want to F***ing win that.

Trophies are trophies. END OF!!

Some right f**king whopper comments in here.

What a sad state of affairs football has become when fans would trade winning trophies for the chance at finishing in 4th place in the league, yes, 4th. I think I even read a few pages back a comment claiming "You win a trophy, the next day its forgotten", what a f**king utterly ridiculous comment. Winning trophies is what this club has always been about, they're the days your auld fella can tell you about years later. I don't ever remmember me Dad telling me about the time we finished 4th in the league.

The game has been consumed by money men, and it seems the Sky Sports generation of fans which inhabit the rest of the top clubs around the country have found their way in to our ranks too. Give me trophies any day of the week ahead of finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th. The medal winners go down in History, you don't get medals for finishing 4th.

This argument probably won't ever settle but sad matter of fact is domestic trophies do not attract the big players.

When we look through history we all appreciate having another trophy there for defs, but one thing we have to do is STOP THAT. We don't live in the past.

I want success NOW. The route to which is simple, build a stable place in the champions league, haul in the money and work towards a league title challenge. Which is what we had under Houllier and Rafa then we lost it all by having to sell the best players under the previous owners. We need to get back to that and soon, before more ridiculous buyouts and Sheikh money being pumped into the league leave us in the shade.

The Carling and FA Cup a ten times over won't give us what one season in the Champions League in terms of finance or prestige. Devalued, old-fashioned, a snippet of the embodiment of the ruination of the beautiful game by money. Call it what you want.

It's fact.

It's an opinion. A wrong opinion.

If we win next week, I won't care who came Top 4, or 5th, 6th, or 7th, all I'll care about is we won the cup, and have it for the next 12 months. That's a longer reward than what finishing 4th will give you.

A sad matter of fact is that always chasing 20 million quid every year, almost put this club out of F***ing business 18 months ago. How many leagues did all those Top 4 finishes win us? F**k all. How many trophies did the past 6 years of chasing 20 million quid every year win us? F**k all. How many trophies will Arsene "Top 4" Wenger win this year? F**k all. He'll flog half his squad again this summer, as will the manc bas**rds. Why? Because only winning 20 million quid a year isn't enough to keep the wolves from the door these days. It can break clubs as well as make them.

The European Cup is a great competition, nobody denies that. But it ain't the be all and end all for a club in the trophy winning business as LFC is. You need trophies on the mantlepiece. We have them this year, and I will remember them in 20 years time. I won't remember which Joe Loser finished 4th.

What league position did we finish 2003/2004 again?

Oh yeah, 4th.

What did we win in 2004/2005?

Oh yeah, the European Cup.

What league position did we finish 2003/2004 again?

Oh yeah, 4th.

What did we win in 2004/2005?

Oh yeah, the European Cup.

When I was checking our list of 'honours' it does indeed include the 2005 European Cup. Strangely enough it doesn't reference any of our top four finishes (other than the 18 titles, of course).

What league position did we finish 2005/06 again?
Oh yeah, 3rd.
What did we win in '06?
Oh yeah, the "poxy" F.A. Cup.

What league position did we finish 2006/07 again?
Oh yeah, 3rd.
What did we win in '07?
Oh yeah, nothing.

What league position did we finish 2007/08 again?
Oh yeah, 4th.
What did we win in '08?
Oh yeah, nothing.

What league position did we finish 2008/09 again?
Oh yeah, 2nd.
What did we win in '09?
Oh yeah, nothing.

Duff Man likes this game...

Was it not Shankly that said 2nd is the first loser? Or something along that line?

If we win the FA Cup this season, ti would have been a good double- winning season for me and LFC.

Finishing below Everton is a drag, I don't think it will happen.

But we can not downplay the importance of making the top 4. The prestige that comes with it is overwhelming for the players and the club. The 'pepper' (money) toois good for Club's profit margin, investment and wages bill.

They're both good, but clearly, winning cups is always better. Winning the Champions League Cup? WOW, 2005.

That is true Bier but there are too many, and I don't include yourself here, who see finishing top four and just playing in the Champions League as success.

It isn't and never will.

Exactly, it probably would only be useful if we enter and won it but I guess at least there's Liverpool FC in the Champions League even if we don't win it.

I love winning trophies and all that but Champions League is also important. Out of it for one season, it's fine, two, not too shabby but three seasons, it's bad.

People need to take into account the 2 years we've gone through and two cups with no Champions League is a good return, IMO.

I will sound like I'm contradicting myself but ... I don't want to see us not qualify for the Champions League for 5 years.

Finishing top 4 with 1 or 2 domestic trophies = Success

Finishing top 10 with 2 domestic trophies = Thank god for that FA cup win

Finishing top 10 with Carling cup trophy = Hmmmm must do better next season Kenny.

Finishing top 4 with no trophies = roll on next season CL and proper title challenge

Finishing top 10 with no trophies = your fired (unless your Kenny and you have time next season to get it right)

Finishing top 4 with 1 or 2 domestic trophies = Success

Finishing top 10 with 2 domestic trophies = Thank god for that FA cup win

Finishing top 10 with Carling cup trophy = Hmmmm must do better next season Kenny.

Finishing top 4 with no trophies = roll on next season CL and proper title challenge

Finishing top 10 with no trophies = your fired (unless your Kenny and you have time next season to get it right)

The point is, AT THE MOMENT, everyone is willing to take a cup or two because we have 0% chance of finishing top four.

But if the club has a chance of top four, everyone would take that but they won't want to have it by forgoing cup competitions and neither do they want cup trophies by forgoing the chase for fourth.

I don't want to see us throwing away trophies for JUST a fouth place finish and I don't want to see us throw away a top four finish for a cup or two.

If anything, we should be aiming for first and we'd get a trophy as well as a Champions League spot. So, we shouldn't be aiming for 4th explicityly.

It's just very messy thinking. I would assume many of us do not want either or but we want both but would gladly accept trophies without a Champions League place when at this point, we can't get it.

Don't wanna seem like a complete dick but those preferring a 4th place finish have obviously not experienced being at Wembley or wherever and witnessing first hand us winning a trophy.

I'd take that feeling every day over finishing 4th in the league. F**k the tv and F**k the money ruining football.

Don't wanna seem like a complete dick but those preferring a 4th place finish have obviously not experienced being at Wembley or wherever and witnessing first hand us winning a trophy.

I'd take that feeling every day over finishing 4th in the league. F**k the tv and F**k the money ruining football.

I'd sacrifice short term success F.A cup wins and League Cup wins for long terms success and for long term success you need Champions League football.

We can't offer the wages that United, Chelsea and Man City can so therefore we need the Champions League as an extra incentive to attract the kind of players that can deliver long term success.

So whilst the cups are nice for the history records, Champions League football and how much you can progress as a club by having it is more important to me at the moment, we're about to go into our third season without Champions League Football and slowly but surely because of this we are becoming a less of a draw for players.

People will say F**k them, if they don't want to play for the red shirt and put Champions League football above the club then we don't want them, but that's the kind of attitude that will see us become a cup side nothing else.

We need to be attracting these sort of players to compete both domestically and in Europe, I'm just pleased we have Europa League football on offer as that is still a draw to some players and that may help us progress into the top4 places next season.

When I was checking our list of 'honours' it does indeed include the 2005 European Cup. Strangely enough it doesn't reference any of our top four finishes (other than the 18 titles, of course).

What league position did we finish 2005/06 again?
Oh yeah, 3rd.
What did we win in '06?
Oh yeah, the "poxy" F.A. Cup.

What league position did we finish 2006/07 again?
Oh yeah, 3rd.
What did we win in '07?
Oh yeah, nothing.

What league position did we finish 2007/08 again?
Oh yeah, 4th.
What did we win in '08?
Oh yeah, nothing.

What league position did we finish 2008/09 again?
Oh yeah, 2nd.
What did we win in '09?
Oh yeah, nothing.

Duff Man likes this game...

Still gotta be in it to win it tho haven't we?

Wether you like it or not the money the CL brings/the prestige it has and the ability it has to help draw in the players we all want at the club is 10 times more important than a LC win. It just is.

No one is saying we're not happy we won the LC but which ever way you dress it up it really doesn't have any impact on the future of the club.

If you look at the previous winners, In the last 10 years 5 clubs have won it who werent a top 4 team, Blackburn, Middlesbrough, Birmingham Spurs and now us.

Where are they now? What world class stars did there success enable them to sign??

4th 3rd or even 2nd may not give you a trophy but it gives you so much more.

Still gotta be in it to win it tho haven't we?

4th 3rd or even 2nd may not give you a trophy but it gives you so much more.

It might do, but we need to be up there challenging first, bread and butter and all that, plus I'm glad we're not back in it yet as that team at the moment would get battered in the Champions League.

A good season in the Europa next year would be a good stepping stone, a bit like 2001.

If you look at the previous winners, In the last 10 years 5 clubs have won it who werent a top 4 team, Blackburn, Middlesbrough, Birmingham Spurs and now us.



4th 3rd or even 2nd may not give you a trophy but it gives you so much more.

Them clubs you mention never have or never will have the pedigree of lfc  and there lies the difference , also 4th 3rd or 2nd gives you more, just remind me how much more it has given Arsenal in the past 6 years ,last time i looked they had layed off their trophy polisher.Ask their fans if they are happy to win jack sh*t this year again.