Brendan Rodgers (Liverpool -> Celtic -> Leicester)

Luke that's lovely that you disagree with me, and of course you're entitled to your opinion. I'm well aware that given we're in 11th place now it seems a little unlikely that we'll comfortably finish in the top four, but nonetheless it is my opinion and though your post is well put together, it doesn't sway me.

Just a couple of points from your post.

*I've always felt we'd finish in the top four this season. I'm more certain by the week as it's a very poor league this year.

*I don't agree that "our signings have been dire", simply because in the majority of cases they are only kids, and they are therefore playing as you (or at least I) would expect kids to play. Lovren, Lambert and Balotelli have been very disappointing, but it is IMHO the form of our established players which is holding us back more than them.

*Southampton won't finish in the top four. You can debate it all you like, but not with me because it won't happen.

I've read all of the rest of it and you make some good points, even the ones I don't agree with are good points. Utd have the best attack in the league? I don't think so personally (I can't be bothered to get into a debate about who has), but I think we have enough quality, and enough winnable games coming up, to overhaul United comfortably. I agree with you that Arsenal will finish top four, it'll be between us and them for 3rd and 4th in my opinion.

Anyways it'd be a boring world if we all agreed. I know I've been asked many times about nightmare scenarios, but if we did get into the top four would it be enough to get people off Brendans back, or do we have to win the quadruple with Markovic getting World player of the year as well?       

On paper it's not a disaster. Two wins from the knockout stages of the CL (after which anything can happen), a win away from the semi's of the League Cup and 4 points off the top four. As bad as some of the manager's decisions have been and as poor as the players have played we're still in a position where the season can comfortably be 'saved'.

But the improvement has to be seen fast now. We're not going to get away with being this sh*t for much longer. If we play like we've done in recent weeks then I don't see winning at Ludogorets and to be honest I'm not very confident about the Bournemouth game either. In the league, a couple of the 'big' teams will step it up soon. United have put in a couple of good performances against big teams and have started to grind out results against the smaller teams at home. We need to keep pace with them and Arsenal usually find something to get them into 4th. Southampton have some tough games coming up so that will present us with a chance to catch up which we need to take full advantage of.

It's worrying but it's not a disaster yet. It's saveable but this is where Brendan earns his money. If he can keep us in the cups and within touching distance of 4th at the end of the year then a couple of signings could push us on to have a good season. A few more bad results on the other hand...

6-7 weeks that will define Brendan's time at this club, no doubt about that in my mind.

A good start for BR  would be to drop that welsh wizard  in midfield  , then take a fckin good look at the defence because we must be the laughing stock of the prem go figure we supposedly rape the Saints for Lovren , they move on  we turn to sh*t while they have one off the tightest defences in europe , I admire his will to play byt this ticki tacky bollox coming out of defence only works with the right personel. its quite apparent to most ours are not up to that particular task so scrap it till they are simples.

All this talk about Tiki taka football. I have not once seen us play that style under Rodgers, not even under our previous PL managers... ever. Isn't tiki taka football where you maintain possession, keeping the ball ticking via quick short passes, whether you are in tight surroundings or not?

I have only ever seen Spain and Barca do it. Closest to them in the prem has been Arsenal, but not once have I seen us do this.

All this talk about Tiki taka football. I have not once seen us play that style under Rodgers, not even under our previous PL managers... ever. Isn't tiki taka football where you maintain possession, keeping the ball ticking via quick short passes, whether you are in tight surroundings or not?

I have only ever seen Spain and Barca do it. Closest to them in the prem has been Arsenal, but not once have I seen us do this.

We don't have the players to play tiki taka, we can't make a simple 10 yard pass as evidenced in that 10 minute period before half time v Chelsea, I lost count the number of times we gave it away!

I don't think we have blown all our money on sh*te!. Can,Moreno,Manq(if he stays here ) are going to be very good players here.

I know mate, I don't think all of them are sh*t. Can and Moreno, I agree are good. Manquillo is on loan so we will see how he goes.

I just thought it was funny, so posted it.

I know mate, I don't think all of them are sh*t. Can and Moreno, I agree are good. Manquillo is on loan so we will see how he goes.

I just thought it was funny, so posted it.

It was funny indeed  . Especially when thinking about the premature comparisons to Shankley and Bob last season.

Anyways it'd be a boring world if we all agreed. I know I've been asked many times about nightmare scenarios, but if we did get into the top four would it be enough to get people off Brendans back, or do we have to win the quadruple with Markovic getting World player of the year as well?

Well, to be fair it depends how we do it. At the moment it's looking likely that it's not because we're going to play ourselves into it, it's because everyone else has been pure sh*te. Arse, United, Spurs and Everton are all as bad as us. If the season picks up, players start gelling, tactics and line up changes and we start seeing a proper team like we did last year...then we'll get off BR's back.

Right now, I have a real beef with the gaffer and I'll stay on his back

Well, to be fair it depends how we do it. At the moment it's looking likely that it's not because we're going to play ourselves into it, it's because everyone else has been pure sh*te. Arse, United, Spurs and Everton are all as bad as us. If the season picks up, players start gelling, tactics and line up changes and we start seeing a proper team like we did last year...then we'll get off BR's back.

Right now, I have a real beef with the gaffer and I'll stay on his back

That's what I disagree with. We all want to win with style, but in the end does it matter as long as we win? (without cheating, obviously) Who cares if the rest of the league is sh*t? Who cares how we do it as long as we do it? Did we care that we had absolutely no right to win the European Cup in 2005? Did we care that we couldn't beat a lower division side in 120 minutes to win the League Cup in 2012? No, because in the end we did it somehow, and that's all we really need to do this time around too. Just finish in the top 4 and don't repeat transfer mistakes next year.

That's what I disagree with. We all want to win with style, but in the end does it matter as long as we win? (without cheating, obviously) Who cares if the rest of the league is sh*t? Who cares how we do it as long as we do it? Did we care that we had absolutely no right to win the European Cup in 2005? Did we care that we couldn't beat a lower division side in 120 minutes to win the League Cup in 2012? No, because in the end we did it somehow, and that's all we really need to do this time around too. Just finish in the top 4 and don't repeat transfer mistakes next year.

I think you mis-understood what I was trying to say mate. I actually agree with you that the important thing is we get there. We all want to see the attractive, attacking football we were playing last year and that's what pleases us, but results matter.

I'm talking about what instill my confidence in the manager. If we make 4th because we haphazardly stumbled into it playing the same sh*t we've seen so far this year but only got there  because everyone else has been even worse, my confidence in BR would remain low and I'd remain sceptical. If we don't change our tactics, our summer acquisitions carry on under-performing and the players who are off form keep getting picked ahead of players who deserve it...then I would remain unmoved, regardless of whether we make 4th or not.

For reference though, I actually think BR is a very good manager and believe he will get us performing, but this season's ills have been compounded by a mixture of best player in the world leaving, perfect storm in terms of injuries and 8 players coming in. But BR isn't helping himself at the moment for the above stated reason, which are in his control. He may just be too stubborn to change what he believes in.

I think you mis-understood what I was trying to say mate. I actually agree with you that the important thing is we get there. We all want to see the attractive, attacking football we were playing last year and that's what pleases us, but results matter.

I'm talking about what instill my confidence in the manager. If we make 4th because we haphazardly stumbled into it playing the same sh*t we've seen so far this year but only got there  because everyone else has been even worse, my confidence in BR would remain low and I'd remain sceptical. If we don't change our tactics, our summer acquisitions carry on under-performing and the players who are off form keep getting picked ahead of players who deserve it...then I would remain unmoved, regardless of whether we make 4th or not.

For reference though, I actually think BR is a very good manager and believe he will get us performing, but this season's ills have been compounded by a mixture of best player in the world leaving, perfect storm in terms of injuries and 8 players coming in. But BR isn't helping himself at the moment for the above stated reason, which are in his control. He may just be too stubborn to change what he believes in.

Ah my mistake; I did misunderstand. Sorry about that.

One thing I would add too is that the players who played so well last year have not performed well at all this season, which makes the summer transfers look worse than they've been. Skrtel's been just about the only guy who carried on from how he played last season.

We don't have the players to play tiki taka, we can't make a simple 10 yard pass as evidenced in that 10 minute period before half time v Chelsea, I lost count the number of times we gave it away!

The issue with us is that we cant even control the damn ball.

Gerrard and Henderson take multiple touches to control the ball - by time they have it under control, we can't exactly outwit the opposition as they are usually back in position. Sure, we may hold onto the ball when the players EVENTUALLY control it, but its meaningless as a result.

The issue with us is that we cant even control the damn ball.

Gerrard and Henderson take multiple touches to control the ball - by time they have it under control, we can't exactly outwit the opposition as they are usually back in position. Sure, we may hold onto the ball when the players EVENTUALLY control it, but its meaningless as a result.

It's a common disease suffered by most mid table teams - average midfielditis.

The way I sees it, BR is his own worst enemy at the moment. Most of the posters here said almost the same thing but in different manners with regards to the weaknesses in our team  but yet he persists to do the same week in week out. He could very well be the very architect of his own downfall.

When we have a dynamic midfield trio of Cou, Can and Stevie bombing forward but not knowing who to past the ball to in the box where there is a total disconnect between midfield and attack,  Balo kept running into offside positions, not to mention side and back passes with our defenders, it's a clear sign something is very very wrong with our tactics and coaching staff has totally lost the plot.

Continue to use the excuse of loosing Suarez and too many players bedding in simply doesn't hold water for me. We're what, 10 games into the season and we're still trying to bed in the players, god forbids if we continue with such tactics and not doing anything about it we may soon end up at the drop zone.

I'm asking the following questions  :-

1.  Why is it that BR doesn't sees the same problem as many of the posters here do? Is he too stubborn not to acknowledge the problems?
2.  Why did he persists to use the same tactics when it is not working at all? How long more?
3.  Why is there a total disconnect between midfield and attack while the defenders continue to knock the ball around our own half resulting  in a disconnect between defence and midfield. We looks like a team playing compartmentalised football at the moment. Defenders knocking the ball among themselves, midfield bombing forward not knowing what to do, attackers ran all over the place except into the box to score.
4.  Why is BR so stubborn to continue using Balo as a lone striker when it is not working out at all and so torturing to watch
5.  Are the coaches under BR up to mark? Is BR in control of the tactics? Or that he listens too much and has too much belief in his coaches that he allows things to continue to fall apart?
6.  Why are the new players taking so much time to bed-in and how much more time BR needs? Does he  even knows what are their strengths and weaknesses?
7.  Good managers switch tactics fast to suit the players strength and to improve on the weaknesses,  does BR falls into that category of managers? At the moment it doesn't looks like so.
8.  Loosing 2-1 to chelski is somewhat acceptable to BR and we could have lost 4-1 easily if not for that few misses and I'm sure BR knows that and the tactics are in total disarray, does he knows that?
10. BR seems to be a manager that overplays possession football and not a manager that likes aggressive football. Most of the players he had bought are pretty light weight suggests he's not a manager that likes aggressive tactics. Is that the case? We use to bully teams at Anfield , not anymore.
11. Has the players lost their self-belief and do they subscribes to BR's tactics?
12. My last question is the most painful one.  In the first place , is BR even ready for the hot seat?

Call me a knee jerker, yes I am for a simple  reason that I've been supporting the club for the last 40 years.

Hasn't been a manager in Liverpools history that has not had a bad run not even Sir Bob. Lets back the current one to get out of his

The issue with us is that we cant even control the damn ball.

Gerrard and Henderson take multiple touches to control the ball - by time they have it under control, we can't exactly outwit the opposition as they are usually back in position. Sure, we may hold onto the ball when the players EVENTUALLY control it, but its meaningless as a result.

Good point. That leads to the next question, is BR a manager that overplays possession football to the extend that it puts pressure on ourselves and that we don't dare to take on opposition players anymore? I'd simply put it, BR is not one that like aggressive football and it takes us ages to get the ball out of our half is so painful to watch.

Good point. That leads to the next question, is BR a manager that overplays possession football to the extend that it puts pressure on ourselves and that we don't dare to take on opposition players anymor? I'd simply put it, BR is not one that like aggressive football and it takes us ages to get the ball out of our half is so painful to watch.

Not sure I agree with your assessment As you couldn't accuse him of any of that last season.

Not sure I agree with your assessment As you couldn't accuse him of any of that last season.

No reason for me to  accuse him of that last season as he did the right thing back then. Fast on the counter, no time for the opposition players to settle down, passes were decisive and accurate. But we are doing the opposite at the moment and he has simply reverted possession and non-aggressive tactics this season.

No reason for me to  accuse him of that last season as he did the right thing back then. Fast on the counter, no time for the opposition players to settle down, passes were decisive and accurate. But we are doing the opposite at the moment and he has simply reverted into possession and non-aggressive tactics this season.

Let's see what happens with Daniel back. Probably Brendan's last throw of the dice.

Good point. That leads to the next question, is BR a manager that overplays possession football to the extend that it puts pressure on ourselves and that we don't dare to take on opposition players anymor? I'd simply put it, BR is not one that like aggressive football and it takes us ages to get the ball out of our half is so painful to watch.

It's absolutely dire to watch, mid to lower end standard crap. One thing that irks me most is the amount of times Gerrard drops deep, splitting the center backs to receive the ball. Why does this happen a lot? because Gerrard's inability to pass short and keep the ball ticking, so Rodgers is wanting to get the best out of Gerrard allowing him utilise his trademark hollywood balls.

It worked a treat last season with Sterling, Suarez and Sturridge, but this season, it hasn't looked right, even in pre season and when Sturridge was fit. Teams know how to stop Gerrard, they simply press him which results in our mundane negative passing.

I'm not asking us to play tika taka, I just want us to be more positive in our passing and moving, I want to see our midfielders move into an advanced positions rather than negative(dropping deep), and once they receive it, don't be scared to turn and pass or dribble the ball forward.

Players like Lucas & Coutinho, ball players who keep the ball ticking positively, accompanied by positive attacking players, likes of Sterling or Lallana. I feel this approach would be 1 huge step to taking us out of this slump. We still have the players to finish top 4, but I believe the tactics are letting us down atm

I am pretty sure once Gerrard learns how to handle his zimmer frame he will be back to his best.

I admit Gerrard has not been at his best so far this season, but then which Liverpool player has? I think once Sturridge returns Gerrard will again have a real target to hit with his passes again and things will start to look better. I certainly believe he deserves better than some of the crappy comments some people are throwing at him.

I certainly believe he deserves better than some of the crappy comments some people are throwing at him.

He is number one as far as we are concerned and a legend.
Stevie deserves no criticism. Its not that he should be immune from it but his achievements outshine all.

He deserved the title in May.

Others let him down .

He is number one as far as we are concerned and a legend.
Stevie deserves no criticism. Its not that he should be immune from it but his achievements outshine all.

He deserved the title in May.

Others let him down .

No one would deny over his career Stevie has deserved a title.

But can you enlighten us with your wisdom as to who let him down last season?