Brendan Rodgers (Liverpool -> Celtic -> Leicester)

Unsurprisingly mate I don't agree with any of what you say really. Neither do I agree with "excuses" being thrown in. I'll deal with that in a sec', but first of all the "contradictions" and "confusion".

Well I can only elaborate and demonstrate where I got my interpretation from Mick, if you choose not to agree with it then I've no worries at all. At least you present your side of the argument so I can at least see where you're coming from.

Like I said though I think you're quick to make excuses for some clear contradictions and confusion.

"After the weekend the focus was not to dwell on it" but to "learn from our mistakes"

Of course you agree with both statements because taken in isolation they're just cliches but when observed over a period of time they don't hold true. Perhaps a more accurate assessment should be we need to learn from our mistakes much quicker than we are doing and in order to learn from our mistakes we do need to understand what we've done wrong which does indeed need some level of focus.

As for "losing can be the making of you" and "we've lost more than we like", lets look at that. The second bit surely nobody can argue with, because we have. The other part though is an attempt to see some positive in a pretty bleak situation, and to an extent I agree with him. Losing ought to hurt, a lot, and should make your desire to avoid it happening again even greater. I don't think there's too much to see here really, this is probably just another attempt to find an issue in something harmless mate if I'm honest.

You see the contradiction here is that if losing was indeed the making of us, we'd have been made by now. We most certainly wouldn't have lost 4 in a row. So losing isn't the making of this group, no amount of losing is going to make things better it's the drawing and the winning that will indeed make us, the losing will simply break us.

"we've lost more than we'd like" is the true part of the statement and yes we can all agree with that.

As for "excuses"

The excuses I was referring to were from you Mick, not Brendan.

What is abundantly clear to me is that Brendan is struggling to adapt to the pressures of managing a team who are struggling. His constant calls for more coaching time, as if this was a shock to him, suggest the stress of things are indeed affecting him a lot more than are currently showing. The same can be interpreted with his suggestions that there needs to be less time on psychology and more time on physical training, he understands that if he doesn't get the results now it's his job on the line. Personally I think it's his lack of experience that is shining through at the moment and it's harsh place to learn under all the pressure and spotlights but that's essentially what he signed up for and what enjoyed so much last season.

I also understand that you're going to make excuses for him Mick and we're never likely to agree, I've no problem with that.

Why don't I want to get rid then (or criticise his choice of breakfast cereal if I haven't got the bollocks to admit it)? Because I've seen what a great job he CAN do, I can remember six months ago. I also remember that in the two and a half seasons he's been here we've been a really good side for 70% of that. I think we will be again under him, AND I don't think you should change a manager mid season OR give the w@nkers in the press any ammunition.

I've also seen what he CAN do at the start of his tenure with us (before Sturridge and Coutinho) and what he CAN do at the start of this season. One season with all circumstances aligning in our favour doesn't give me total and unequivocol knowledge that he CAN produce that consistently. I have also seen what he CAN do with our defence over his entire time with us. Added to that what he CAN do under the restrictions of FSG in the transfer market. So I CAN and do have doubts.

As for changing manager mid-season, you change when circumstances suit you best, whether that's mid/start/end/certainly no consideration should be made for the manager you've already deemed not up to the task. At the moment I don't think Brendan should be under threat for losing his job but I believe he is, as I've stated before I think should he lose CL qualification FSG may well pull the trigger. Would I, no, would 80% of this forum, no, but do they really care what we think, no.

Do you trust the manager to get it right? do you think he is a good manager? Do you still back him or want him out? If you want him out what is the solution? Just general easy questions mate and not being funny.

From now until January 31st I would give Rodgers the chance to turn things around. This of course will require at minimum £50 million provided by the owners for transfer funds in the January window to sign a new striker. A new striker who must be signed as early as possible in the window so no pricking around with counter offers and delayed negotiations just get the player signed! If no attempt to sign a new striker is made in January and Rodgers is still playing Balotelli up front and we are still languishing in mid table with no upturn in form then a new manager needs to be sought out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zbuz2vG94P4

 

It's speculation that those with an axe to grind try to pass off as fact.
I see that people have taken to quoting Bascombe in an attempt to lend credibility, but he got fu**ed off by the club after going to work for the news of the world.
The fact is that we need to increase revenue and sustain increased revenue to compete with the big payers and that will only come with Stadium expansion and that toxic word "Branding".
We were 20 years behind some other clubs in terms of generating revenues from sponsorship sources, particularly overseas sources, we had that lazy tw*t Parry to thank for that, not to mention our inability to find a stadium plan and stick with it.

I actually completely agree with you mate. I think it's a bit lazy to just blame the owners for not coughing up the cash. For the right player, I think the owners will cough up the transfer fee, but to offer higher wages requires revenues to back it up in the long term. This is probably what led to Sanchez going to Arsenal than us (I don't believe the London lure story though it may have been ONE of the factors). They have significantly higher revenues than us hence can pay higher wages, simple as.

Anyone who looks at sponsorship deals and overseas revenues can see we're way behind other clubs...but we have made significant inroads in the last 5 years. The stadium will help and new initiatives in Asia will boost the income. So, unless we get a billionaire (which you may or may not want depending on your opinion how the club should be run), I just don't see the argument sticking.

non of us have documentary evidence but then its hard to prove otherwise.
JH himself said that we wouldn't be buying players without a sell on fee being available at the end of their contract.
Put it this way the evidence is on the pitch and in our league position

I know JH said this mate, but I personally don't think it points to a "buy-them-young-sell-them-for-profit" model. The only player we sold for profit under FSG was Luis and he wanted to go, so there's no indication this is the case. I actually agree with JH, what's the point of buying older players even if they might be great players. I want players who will stick around for the long haul. Some of the young players BR has brought will be fantastic for years to come (Moreno, Llalana, Can) and some will not work out, that's football. I think it's simplistic and short-sighted simply to say that FSG want to buy young,cheap players to make profit out of them.

Brendan Rodgers hits back at criticism of ‘weak’ Liverpool

Brendan Rodgers has countered Jamie Carragher’s withering criticism of Liverpool by insisting his team does possess character and will prove it when attempting to preserve their Champions League status against Ludogorets.

Liverpool visit the Bulgarian champions on the back of four successive defeats and requiring a first win in four Champions League games to keep qualification in their own hands. Lucas Leiva and Kolo Touré, two players who impressed at Real Madrid only to return to the bench for the following Premier League game against Chelsea, are expected to return to the starting lineup in Sofia with Rickie Lambert leading the attack in the absence of the injured pair Mario Balotelli and Daniel Sturridge.

Sunday’s 3-1 defeat at Crystal Palace prompted condemnation from former Liverpool vice-captain turned Sky television pundit Carragher, who described the performance as the latest example of Rodgers’ men being bullied, weak and showing no leadership on the pitch this season.

The Liverpool manager, however, said: “We hear criticism of the team but this team has character, it showed it last season. It has shown it’s got resilience. Okay, we concede more than we would like at times but you can’t question the character. That can’t be criticised. We have players who’ve shown they have spirit but when you don’t get victories it affects confidence and you don’t perform quite as good. My job is to keep instilling that confidence.”

On the specific point of being bullied at Palace, Rodgers added: “It’s a comment that’s been made of course. It’s something that happens when you’re paid to be critics, well not critics, but to assess the team. When you lose games what I’ve learnt is that people will say they want and that’s what comes. Whether criticism is deserved or not you won’t like it but you just have to ignore it. I have a team full of characters, of fully committed people and hopefully that’s something that will improve. We have to stand up and show that we can get a result and tough it out, and that’s what we will definitely do.”

Rodgers has long advocated style over substance at Liverpool but admits the result is all that matters against Ludogorets as the team fights to remain in the Champions League. “I think that has been the case for a number of weeks now,” he admitted. “The philosophy is important and we know how we want to work but you need to get results. We would take a scrappy win. Listen, you can’t play perfect football. It is going to be tough here. We want to get a result.”

Liverpool have lost their last three Champions League games and have never suffered four consecutive European defeats in the same season. By contrast, Georgi Dermendzhiev’s side sit second in the Bulgarian league and have won nine of 13 fixtures on home soil this term, not that they will have the true comforts of home with their Champions League games switched to the capital’s Vasil Levski Stadium.

Rodgers’ team required a 93rd-minute penalty from Steven Gerrard to overcome Ludogorets in the opening game in Group B but the captain’s role is again under scrutiny following a poor display at Selhurst Park on Sunday and Carragher’s subsequent comments about a lack of leadership.

However, the Liverpool manager, who may switch Gerrard to a more offensive position against the Bulgarians with Lucas in the holding role, has issued a staunch defence of the team’s figurehead. “It’s simple, I judge Steven on merit,” said Rodgers. “The spotlight he is under is incredible. I think people expect him to be the player he was 10 years ago and that is simply not the case.

“He has been adapted to a playmaking role, so the player who scored 15 goals a season is not there anymore but it is hugely unfair that he gets judged on that level.

“He is the best player I have ever worked with in terms of football mentality and the loyalty he has shown this football club. I have shown in my time I do not deal on sentiment. I do not pick him on sentiment.

“He is in at 8.30am every day to prepare for training. I judge him on that and the influence on other players. Of course he is coming to the latter part of his career but he is still invaluable to me. It’s an easy situation to manage because he is a top-class player who accepts what is best for Liverpool. He is a unique case at a time when modern football is very much about the player’s interests in that every decision he makes is in the interests of Liverpool. He can still contribute at a high level and it is my job to manage how that is.”

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/25/brendan-rodgers-liverpool-champions-league-ludogorets?CMP=twt_gu

A whole lot of bullshit being spouted by Rodgers there he doesn't seem to like or want to take criticism at all. Usual rubbish about character and commitment and blah blah blah without admitting the team aren't good enough, defence is not good enough, strikers he bought to replace Luis are not good enough. He defends Stevie from criticism by stating he isn't the player he was 10 years ago. Well no sh*t Sherlock! So why play him in a position that doesn't suit every single week?? Team showed character last season. Yes because it was spearheaded by the biggest character and best player in the PL Luis Suarez. A player you failed horribly in replacing. Sorry Brendan but you need to man up and take the criticism on the chin as it's well deserved.

Can't believe you've said that with a straight face re 'the press sharpening their knives'. The White Ants are out now in full force eating away from within and in some quarters have been far worse than the media.

Sorry is it only you who are allowed to support him.I voted for him to stay but I will call it how I see it.what gives you the right say otherwise.

I am sure Brendan would like a top striker and IF he managed to land one, (who do you suggest by the way?) let's say 10th January, you would then give Brendan 3 weeks to get him scoring goals and win matches until the 31st or out he goes, seems fair enough if that's your way of thinking. 

No I don't expect a new striker to come in and start scoring immediately but I demand the huge issue of our existing strikers not scoring be addressed by signing a proven goal scorer. Jackson Martinez is available in January £30 million should see us get him. The player is prolific for club and country and a hard working team player. He would replace Balotelli immediately. There is no excuse not to sign him. If Brendan makes every attempt to sign him it will show me he is learning from his mistake in signing Balotelli. If he makes no attempt it shows me he won't admit he is F***ing up and never will.

I admired Brendan Rodgers for his work last season, for he managed a small squad that nearly won us the PL. A huge amount of luck was also on our side, as not one fixture saw us without one of either Daniel Sturridge or Luis Suarez. You can say we've been very unfortunate this season, but a managers job is to manage a squad. It is to foresee arising problems and to make sure they are well aware of how to encounter these problems when they do eventually surface (i.e. Daniel Sturridge and his multiple injuries; the departure of Luis Suarez). When you have also had £117m to spend on new players, it is hardly an excuse that your poor performances are down to one key player being injured. £117m is a sufficient amount to spend and correct problematic areas. We sold one striker, and signed two.

Transfers aside, the area in which Brendan has really struggled is to show that there is some versatility in the squad. Versatility in tactics. We are too one dimensional. The same low performers are unconditionally getting into the team week in, week out (i.e. Lovren, Johnson, Gerrard, Allen, Balotelli). Usually we learn from mistakes, but we are not actually learning from mistakes. The supporters see the mistakes we are guilty of, but the most important man of them all doesn't seem to. Call me arrogant for claiming I see mistakes Brendan does not see, but we are only 6pts above bottom place for a reason.

What also perplexes me is that our strongest team (which usually involves the likes of Lovren, Johnson, Gerrard, Allen, Balotelli) get's rolled over by the likes of Aston Villa, Newcastle, West Ham, Crystal Palace and our weakest team (which involves the likes of Toure, Lucas, Can and Borini) shows more resilience and determination and tactical know how than our strongest team... and this was in one outing, in possibly the most difficult fixture in club football (away to Real Madrid). Yet Toure, Lucas and Borini get fu**ed off back to the bench in favour of Lovren, Gerrard and Balotelli. This is a new trend at the club - make mistakes and do not learn from them. It's as if Brendan is trying to persevere with the same group of players, with the hope that they'll just come good, yet he claims he only makes decisions purely on merit. Bullshit!

Sorry is it only you who are allowed to support him.I voted for him to stay but I will call it how I see it.what gives you the right say otherwise.

Oh, I know what you do alright, you change your opinion of him at the end of every result. 

Don't blame the media when mongrels of your ilk get the tinder lit.

Oh, I know what you do alright, you change your opinion of him at the end of every result. 

Don't blame the media when mongrels of your ilk get the tinder lit.

it must be difficult for you to understand anyone actually having an opinion based on knowledge of the club and its players.
My opinions are based on what he does when he does it well and when he fucks up or says stupid things just to give the press something.
If you want to compare notes on supporting this club then where do you want to start ,on the number of years supported ,the number of games attended or the number of finals attended.You start.

If you want to compare notes on supporting this club then where do you want to start ,on the number of years supported ,the number of games attended or the number of finals attended.You start.

That's cheating. You'll just add a 1 on to all of his answers 

A whole lot of bullshit being spouted by Rodgers there he doesn't seem to like or want to take criticism at all. Usual rubbish about character and commitment and blah blah blah without admitting the team aren't good enough, defence is not good enough, strikers he bought to replace Luis are not good enough. He defends Stevie from criticism by stating he isn't the player he was 10 years ago. Well no sh*t Sherlock! So why play him in a position that doesn't suit every single week?? Team showed character last season. Yes because it was spearheaded by the biggest character and best player in the PL Luis Suarez. A player you failed horribly in replacing. Sorry Brendan but you need to man up and take the criticism on the chin as it's well deserved.

I wouldn't mind so much if there was character in the side, if they showed grit and determination but still got beat. At least that would be something to latch on to for hope. But this team simply lacks any character whatsoever, their heads drop every time they concede and they just don't look like winning any game because of it. The belief has completely evaporated. Since most of these players are ones he bought, it's time for Brendan to shut up and put up.

BULLSHIT

I admired Brendan Rodgers for his work last season, for he managed a small squad that nearly won us the PL. A huge amount of luck was also on our side, as not one fixture saw us without one of either Daniel Sturridge or Luis Suarez. You can say we've been very unfortunate this season, but a managers job is to manage a squad. It is to foresee arising problems and to make sure they are well aware of how to encounter these problems when they do eventually surface (i.e. Daniel Sturridge and his multiple injuries; the departure of Luis Suarez). When you have also had £117m to spend on new players, it is hardly an excuse that your poor performances are down to one key player being injured. £117m is a sufficient amount to spend and correct problematic areas. We sold one striker, and signed two.

Transfers aside, the area in which Brendan has really struggled is to show that there is some versatility in the squad. Versatility in tactics. We are too one dimensional. The same low performers are unconditionally getting into the team week in, week out (i.e. Lovren, Johnson, Gerrard, Allen, Balotelli). Usually we learn from mistakes, but we are not actually learning from mistakes. The supporters see the mistakes we are guilty of, but the most important man of them all doesn't seem to. Call me arrogant for claiming I see mistakes Brendan does not see, but we are only 6pts above bottom place for a reason.

What also perplexes me is that our strongest team (which usually involves the likes of Lovren, Johnson, Gerrard, Allen, Balotelli) get's rolled over by the likes of Aston Villa, Newcastle, West Ham, Crystal Palace and our weakest team (which involves the likes of Toure, Lucas, Can and Borini) shows more resilience and determination and tactical know how than our strongest team... and this was in one outing, in possibly the most difficult fixture in club football (away to Real Madrid). Yet Toure, Lucas and Borini get fu**ed off back to the bench in favour of Lovren, Gerrard and Balotelli. This is a new trend at the club - make mistakes and do not learn from them. It's as if Brendan is trying to persevere with the same group of players, with the hope that they'll just come good, yet he claims he only makes decisions purely on merit.

You had the bullshit alert at the wrong end of the post, no need to thank me.

I wouldn't mind so much if there was character in the side, if they showed grit and determination but still got beat. At least that would be something to latch on to for hope. But this team simply lacks any character whatsoever, their heads drop every time they concede and they just don't look like winning any game because of it. The belief has completely evaporated. Since most of these players are ones he bought, it's time for Brendan to shut up and put up.

Exactly mate. The only characters in the side I can see are the ones printed on their jerseys.

From now until January 31st I would give Rodgers the chance to turn things around. This of course will require at minimum £50 million provided by the owners for transfer funds in the January window to sign a new striker. A new striker who must be signed as early as possible in the window so no pricking around with counter offers and delayed negotiations just get the player signed! If no attempt to sign a new striker is made in January and Rodgers is still playing Balotelli up front and we are still languishing in mid table with no upturn in form then a new manager needs to be sought out.

A minimum of 50m eh?
Would that entail the proviso that he go only for potential?
How many signings would that 50m minimum have to provide?
A rather difficult proposition for the manager when our owners apparently believe that no player is worth more than 25 - 30m

If you want to compare notes on supporting this club then where do you want to start ,on the number of years supported ,the number of games attended or the number of finals attended.You start.

Let's go by who has the most children named after LFC legends.....ready, steady.....GO!

This might be somewhat pedantic, but why is Brendan bringing Lambert to the presser?

Is it to highlight that that's who we have up top right now?
Is he making a point of saying "this is who we have up top now, without Suarez"?

Why not have one of the other signings?
Markovic, Lallana, Lovren.

Let's go by who has the most children named after LFC legends.....ready, steady.....GO!

I vote for the person with the best postcode.

This might be somewhat pedantic, but why is Brendan bringing Lambert to the presser?

Is it to highlight that that's who we have up top right now?
Is he making a point of saying "this is who we have up top now, without Suarez"?

Why not have one of the other signings?
Markovic, Lallana, Lovren.

One of our strikers scored a goal, it was either a press conference or an open top bus parade.... Lambert chose the press conference.

One of our strikers scored a goal, it was either a press conference or an open top bus parade.... Lambert chose the press conference.

I'll be grateful that it was a press conference.

Let's go by who has the most children named after LFC legends.....ready, steady.....GO!

Ask them the colour of their bins FL  that always separates the men from the boys.

This might be somewhat pedantic, but why is Brendan bringing Lambert to the presser?

Is it to highlight that that's who we have up top right now?
Is he making a point of saying "this is who we have up top now, without Suarez"?

Why not have one of the other signings?
Markovic, Lallana, Lovren.

If I remember correctly, Lallana was at the last one and possibly Lovren before that.

Ask them the colour of their bins FL  that always separates the men from the boys.

If I remember correctly, Lallana was at the last one and possibly Lovren before that.

Working his way through the L's then?