Brendan Rodgers (Liverpool -> Celtic -> Leicester)

Top 4 is so important this season because of the extra Champions League money next year. If we can get in ahead of Utd it will level the playing field for us to some degree and we should have decent money to spend again next summer. Maybe this summer's mistakes would be learned from.

Liverpool and Brendan Rodgers are actually lucky that Ferguson retired and United have sunk pretty low. Because the reason we still have a decent chance of top 4 after an awful start is because Van Gaal has been pretty awful, too.

So the champions league money is 30 million when you enter it yeah? The owners can tie us to any old company like we are a prostitute brand to use at will, it will surpass that CL money.
It's the con, don't you get it, the CL money is less than the sponsorship sh*t storm money we saw happen last season but they pocketed.

Always backed him but the mind does boggle we replace Reina and Agger for Migs and Lovern. We're at the third int break and across all comps have played well once maybe twice this season. Shocking

I don't know if it's been mentioned and I'm not trying to pour fuel on the fire of the 'Rodgers out!' brigade but it's an interesting statistic.

2009/10 season, Rafa Benetiz's first eleven games of the season - 18 points, 5 losses.
2010/11 season, Woy Hodgson's first eleven games of the season - 15 points, 4 losses.
2014/15 season, Brendan Rodgers' first eleven games of the season - 14 points, 5 losses.

Well we sacked Rafa and put Hodgson in charge but that didn't work. So we sacked Woy and put Kenny there and that didn't work either. So we sacked Kenny and put Brendan there and that's sort of worked. Clearly sacking the managers isn't moving us forward now is it?

2009/10 season, Rafa Benetiz's first eleven games of the season - 18 points, 5 losses.
2010/11 season, Woy Hodgson's first eleven games of the season - 15 points, 4 losses.
2011/12 season Kenny Dalglish first  eleven games of the season - 19 points, 2 losses
2014/15 season, Brendan Rodgers' first eleven games of the season - 14 points, 5 losses.

Thought we may as well stick Kenny's in as well

2009/10 season, Rafa Benetiz's first eleven games of the season - 18 points, 5 losses.
2010/11 season, Woy Hodgson's first eleven games of the season - 15 points, 4 losses.
2011/12 season Kenny Dalglish first  eleven games of the season - 19 points, 2 losses
2014/15 season, Brendan Rodgers' first eleven games of the season - 14 points, 5 losses.

Thought we may as well stick Kenny's in as well

there is far more to our poor performance than players not being in form or losing confidence.
The players like Stevie know a player and when he sees the new lads in training he knows we have spent a shed load of money on average players.
Luis going is a factor but in reality there is a realisation at melwood that this is not a league winning side or even a top 4 side

2009/10 season, Rafa Benetiz's first eleven games of the season - 18 points, 5 losses.
2010/11 season, Woy Hodgson's first eleven games of the season - 15 points, 4 losses.
2011/12 season Kenny Dalglish first  eleven games of the season - 19 points, 2 losses
2014/15 season, Brendan Rodgers' first eleven games of the season - 14 points, 5 losses.

Thought we may as well stick Kenny's in as well

Good call. I'm half asleep and forgot about that.

there is far more to our poor performance than players not being in form or losing confidence.
The players like Stevie know a player and when he sees the new lads in training he knows we have spent a shed load of money on average players.
Luis going is a factor but in reality there is a realisation at melwood that this is not a league winning side or even a top 4 side

No, our problems are far more nuanced than players or manager or owners or Greater Manchester referees having it in for us. This is why I'm saying sacking Brendan isn't going to achieve anything. There has to be wholesale change if we're to start moving forward again.

Sorry but how is he learning from his mistakes, evidence please.?

I said he showed he learned from last season's mistakes.

I also mentioned why he isn't seemingly learning from his latest mistake this season.

I never said as you imply that the Gaffer learns from his mistakes. I made an argument for why he's finding it difficult to learn from the current mistake. That was my point. Which you missed.

Rafael Benitez should never have been sacked
Kenny Dalglish should never have been sacked
Brendan Rodgers...

Pattern forming? Maybe?

2009/10 season, Rafa Benetiz's first eleven games of the season - 18 points, 5 losses.
2010/11 season, Woy Hodgson's first eleven games of the season - 15 points, 4 losses.
2011/12 season Kenny Dalglish first  eleven games of the season - 19 points, 2 losses
2014/15 season, Brendan Rodgers' first eleven games of the season - 14 points, 5 losses.

Thought we may as well stick Kenny's in as well

It will never, until the day I die, sit right with me that we sacked Kenny on that season mate. I hold none of the responsibility of that with Brendan and he should be given exactly the same chance I thought Kenny should have but there is stark difference between letting the league campaign suffer for the sake of the cups than there is of starting the league campaign off as we have.

Kenny's signings have proven to at least make the club a tremendous profit, Brendan's, at the moment, look like they will cost us plenty. Brendan is currently media friendly but you can sense the tone of interviews starting to change, the tone of response will change in kind as the questions get that bit more cutting, that's just human nature.

So when people say Brendan is highly unlikely to get fired, I disagree. I think if top 4 isn't delivered he will be out the door an easy scapegoat and an illusion of wiping the slate clean for FSG. I'm with BBB though because one of the main reasons I wont call for Brendan's head is that I don't believe he would choose the players we have signed, who in their right mind would choose Balotelli? The problem I have with Brendan is that he is in many ways deflecting the focus from FSG in his comments about transfers and there's a valid point regarding Brendan protecting his own arse in those comments.

This is why I really hope that delegation in Dubai really does have more on their plate than simply naming rights because I don't feel we'll ever compete for the title until we're able to sign world class players. Not many of them I think you only need 2 or 3 (proven by last year) to compete right at the top, but you do need some. Right now I just feel we're blind to the terms and conditions of our investment, both financial and emotional and if we all truly knew those terms we would probably be doing more to fight against it.

You just don't get it at all do you George. 

The owners will never bring in a Manager of that ilk as those Managers will only want top players but those players cost too much money to buy and too much money in wages, something the owners have consistantly said they won't do.

If Brendan is sacked, which I doubt, he will be replaced with another young, inexperienced novice who has shown/proven he can and is prepared to build a team of unproven, young but talented players.  This is why I doubt Brendan will be sacked as they understand that players like Moreno, Manquillo, Can, Markovic, Sakho, Ilori et al won't hit the ground running but will take a good 2 or even 3 seasons to become the players they're hoping they will.  Of course some will come good earlier but in their minds they won't write them off after a few months like the fans have.

Yes the policy is flawed and it's even more of a gamble than bringing in more established/proven players but it is the policy they have put in place so no matter who our Manager is, they will have to work within it.

 

Also primarily flawed because none of these 'young' players are youth products, therefore have no attachment or inherent desire for the club, which (A) makes them likely to be damp squibs or (B) once they become good, they will all separately go to clubs that are bigger than us at the moment.

There's no hint of loyalty amongst them - many would just see Liverpool as a step up to something else. Genuinely brilliant youth products would have the loyalty to stay with us and push us on the the next level, but as we've seen, this club's attitude towards the Academy absolutely stinks - and has done for the last 16 years. That is why, for all the mismanagement over the years, we wouldn't be in half the mess if we had a prosperous academy like the very very best.

Rafael Benitez should never have been sacked
Kenny Dalglish should never have been sacked
Brendan Rodgers...

Pattern forming? Maybe?

Hah.   
One person missing that should have been ... was .... and rightly so .   

"I am better when I have control.
 I am not a power freak ". 

A chap called Adolf thought that.

Thanks for the PM Luke.
Different bait ....

it takes a huge character to sit down and say "I need some help here" and I still think Brendan's biggest flaw is his self belief.
Knowing your weaknesses is the key and I still think Brendan thinks he can do everything better than anyone else at Anfield.
I do hope we don't see death ny a thousand cuts over the next few months I would much rather see a change in the backroom staff and a change in the first X1

Also primarily flawed because none of these 'young' players are youth products, therefore have no attachment or inherent desire for the club, which (A) makes them likely to be damp squibs or (B) once they become good, they will all separately go to clubs that are bigger than us at the moment.

There's no hint of loyalty amongst them - many would just see Liverpool as a step up to something else. Genuinely brilliant youth products would have the loyalty to stay with us and push us on the the next level, but as we've seen, this club's attitude towards the Academy absolutely stinks - and has done for the last 16 years. That is why, for all the mismanagement over the years, we wouldn't be in half the mess if we had a prosperous academy like the very very best.

I'm sorry mate I don't agree.  Yes the Academy was neglected up until Rafa arrived but he realised the benefits of having a good youth system and put measures in place to change that.  However it takes time to get the players ready as you can't suddenly make 1st team players until they've been brought into the system.  Brendan has continued Rafa's work by bringing in coaches who work the same as he does and know what he wants from the Academy.

We have already started to see a trickle of them with Shelvey, Flanno, Wisdom, Raheem, Ibe, Suso, Kelly, Coady, Robinson, Spearing and Texeira.  That's not a bad return but it's taken 7 or 8 years to get them there.  Before you jump on me, yes I am aware not all of them are local and not all of them are playing for us but they've still made a career as pro footballers at a high level and that's all you can ask of a successful Academy.

We now have a fantastic group of players at u21's and even better ones at u18's but most of them seem to be midfielders, we have very few, if any, excellent strikers and the same with CB's although we have a few very good full backs.  It's these areas that need to be filled within the squad as most of the kids just aren't ready for 1st team football yet.  Why do you think the likes of Ilori, Wisdom, Texeira and Ibe are all out on loan?  It's not because they're not wanted, like some seem to think, it's to get them ready to play, whether that's ready to play for us or not.

It's a very slow process, with no guarentees of success but if we start producing high quality youth players from within the Academy more will want to come at a younger age, giving us an even better chance of it being successful.

So when people say Brendan is highly unlikely to get fired, I disagree. I think if top 4 isn't delivered he will be out the door an easy scapegoat and an illusion of wiping the slate clean for FSG.

Without a doubt Luke - this lot are a well oiled PR machine. Brendan has happily and readily taken the rap [towing the company line] for signings made under the 'never again over-pay' policy. Backing himself, I assume, to work his 'magic' with what he's got.

If it goes tits up he's nowhere to hide when John doublya points to Brendan's claims.

I'm F***ing sick of hearing about the sh*te Brendan has signed!  Brendan wanted Costa, Mikhitarian, Sanchez, Willian.....  So don't tell me Brendan got the players he wanted!
By all means criticize his tactics,  his insistence in playing Lovren and Johnson,  or a loan striker,  but if we had the players mentioned above, we would probably be top of the table and not worrying about that.

All this talk of what players we missed out on and plsyers signed blah blah.
Bottom line is the poor performers in the team are the ones from last season so the question that needs asking is why have Gerrard, Henderson, Allen and to a degree Raheem and Couts gone sh*te.

Seems to me Brendan is a bit lost and not sure what system we should be playing it all just seems helter skelter on the pitch, directionless. Are we a passing team, a team that plays on the counter, tiki taka - F**k knows and it seems neither does Brendan which is reflected in the players.

I'm F***ing sick of hearing about the sh*te Brendan has signed!  Brendan wanted Costa, Mikhitarian, Sanchez, Willian.....  So don't tell me Brendan got the players he wanted!
By all means criticize his tactics,  his insistence in playing Lovren and Johnson,  or a loan striker,  but if we had the players mentioned above, we would probably be top of the table and not worrying about that.

I would agree up to a point mate but lets remember he took this job with full knowledge of the processes involved in buying players and the need to reduce wages.
Knowing the wage structure and transfer policy he would have known full well that he would struggle to get that calibre of player.
he cant complain because he is part of the problem

All this talk of what players we missed out on and plsyers signed blah blah.
Bottom line is the poor performers in the team are the ones from last season so the question that needs asking is why have Gerrard, Henderson, Allen and to a degree Raheem and Couts gone sh*te.

Seems to me Brendan is a bit lost and not sure what system we should be playing it all just seems helter skelter on the pitch, directionless. Are we a passing team, a team that plays on the counter, tiki taka - F**k knows and it seems neither does Brendan which is reflected in the players.

Of course he and the players are lost, he thought he'd planned for life without Luis but failed to plan for being without Studge.  Hendo and Allen are being asked to do a different job from last season and Raheem and Cou have nobody moving in front of them.

Perhaps it's FSG that need to move on

I'm F***ing sick of hearing about the sh*te Brendan has signed!  Brendan wanted Costa, Mikhitarian, Sanchez, Willian.....  So don't tell me Brendan got the players he wanted!
By all means criticize his tactics,  his insistence in playing Lovren and Johnson,  or a loan striker,  but if we had the players mentioned above, we would probably be top of the table and not worrying about that.

He also never wanted Sturiddge,wanted to sell Henderson,replaced Reina & Agger with piss poor replacements, forgive me but I don't think I would trust the Boss with anymore $$$$, I also think, Costa, Miki etc were mentioned by the PR men only to come across to us supporters like they were pro active.

I'm sorry mate I don't agree.  Yes the Academy was neglected up until Rafa arrived but he realised the benefits of having a good youth system and put measures in place to change that.  However it takes time to get the players ready as you can't suddenly make 1st team players until they've been brought into the system.  Brendan has continued Rafa's work by bringing in coaches who work the same as he does and know what he wants from the Academy.

We have already started to see a trickle of them with Shelvey, Flanno, Wisdom, Raheem, Ibe, Suso, Kelly, Coady, Robinson, Spearing and Texeira.  That's not a bad return but it's taken 7 or 8 years to get them there.  Before you jump on me, yes I am aware not all of them are local and not all of them are playing for us but they've still made a career as pro footballers at a high level and that's all you can ask of a successful Academy.

We now have a fantastic group of players at u21's and even better ones at u18's but most of them seem to be midfielders, we have very few, if any, excellent strikers and the same with CB's although we have a few very good full backs.  It's these areas that need to be filled within the squad as most of the kids just aren't ready for 1st team football yet.  Why do you think the likes of Ilori, Wisdom, Texeira and Ibe are all out on loan?  It's not because they're not wanted, like some seem to think, it's to get them ready to play, whether that's ready to play for us or not.

It's a very slow process, with no guarentees of success but if we start producing high quality youth players from within the Academy more will want to come at a younger age, giving us an even better chance of it being successful.

The thing is, I'm more concerned as to where the next Gerrard or the next Carragher is going to come from.

I realise there are a lot of potential candidates for the future - I pray that the likes of Rossiter and co will be captaining the side in years to come, but it's also about the desire and willingness to play for Liverpool FC.

Local lads like Gerrard and Carragher were primed from a very early age to play for this club - it was a dream. It's not a dream of many of the imported youngsters to play for Liverpool, they haven't grown up with the culture and family and community ties with the club, therefore there's no attachment, and with that comes that little less motivation that makes all the difference.

If it weren't for local lads like Carra and Gerrard and their blood, guts and determination that local lads have, we wouldn't have won the trophies under Benitez and Houllier. If we played these competitions with just imported products that lack the mentality - we wouldn't have won a thing. Sadly, Gerrard is over the hill and cannot be relied upon but at their peak, the Scouse mentality that pervaded a team full of young whippersnappers from Merseyside really gave us an edge.

One thing for sure is local lads give us a backbone and strength in mentality that is unseen in teams built on imports. Heck, the team at the minute are striving for the guts and determination of Flanagan.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-opinion-storm-clouds-8077581