Trending Topics

      Next match: Betis v LFC [Friendly] Sat 27th Jul @ 12:30 am
      Acrisure Stadium

      Today is the 16th of June and on this date LFC's match record is P0 W0 D0 L0

      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. END OF 2014/15 POLL: Brendan Rodgers - Stay or Go? (Voting was locked on 1st June 2015)

      Stay
      (25.4%)
      Go
      (74.6%)

      Brendan Rodgers (Liverpool -> Celtic -> Leicester)

      Read 3086275 times
      0 Members and 14 Guests are viewing this topic.
      American Red
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,157 posts | 179 
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34454: Sep 02, 2015 04:42:35 pm
      The Mancs are sh*te and we should be beating them regardless, I think the international break has come at the wrong time for us.

      Especially considering we'll have Benteke squaring up with Daley Blind who happens to be significantly shorter than him, significantly weaker than him, and even slower than Lovren. I'm going in with the expectation of at least a draw, if we can't pull that off against their side, then yes something is wrong.
      brezipool
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 9,615 posts | 1814 
      • Mon the Red Machine !
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34455: Sep 02, 2015 04:47:16 pm
      The Mancs are sh*te and we should be beating them regardless, I think the international break has come at the wrong time for us.

      Disagree about the break, will give Hendo, lallana, studger, Allen etc. more time to get fit. ;-)

      And yes we should be beating them, but we have not in recent times. It's a great game to bounce back from west ham debacle.
      TheRedMosquito
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 12,201 posts | 633 
      • Elmore James got nothin' on this baby!
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34456: Sep 02, 2015 04:48:16 pm
      Klopp worked alongside his longterm sidekick who identified and brought in those players, he won't have that here.  He'll be just as dependant as Brendan has been to unearth those players he needs to make his plan work.  Yes he's a great coach but without the great DoF he's just a coach working with what he's given and it doesn't matter how much money we've got, it'll still be wasted whilst there's such a disconnect between what the manager needs and what he gets.

      Are you referring to Zorc (BVB's sporting director) or Buvac (Klopp's longtime assistant manager)?
      American Red
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,157 posts | 179 
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34457: Sep 02, 2015 04:50:32 pm
      Are you referring to Zorc (BVB's sporting director) or Buvac (Klopp's longtime assistant manager)?

      Klopp, Zorc, and Buvac sounds more like a cast of characters from Star Trek than a set of football management.

      No wonder they seem ahead of their time.
      bazspeedman
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 15,832 posts | 2459 
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34458: Sep 02, 2015 04:57:41 pm
      Going to be interesting what the Rodgers out Brigade have to say, if we smash the mancs and go 2nd in a couple of weeks. ;D

      Im hopeful the west ham game was a blip, new players, new coaches, captain injured etc. these things happen.

      And btw. I will be a Rodgers out person again if we have a lot of bad games like west ham, but Im willing to see what happens for a while. games will come thick and fast after this international break. Im still positive.

      And let's not all forget many peoples title favourites going into this season Arsenal also got battered in their home ground by the Hammers a couple weeks back.

      We always start the season slowly I have no doubt we will improve in the coming weeks hopefully starting with a big win against the munts next weekend.
      reddebs
      • "LFC Hipster"
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 17,980 posts | 2264 
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34459: Sep 02, 2015 05:05:28 pm
      Are you referring to Zorc (BVB's sporting director) or Buvac (Klopp's longtime assistant manager)?

      Zorc mate.  He was the one who brought the players in.
      AmericanPlant
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,248 posts | 170 
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34460: Sep 02, 2015 05:19:45 pm
      They sound like Jolene Lescott's mates from his home planet... ??? ???
      andylfcynwa
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 9,367 posts | 1638 
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34461: Sep 02, 2015 06:57:21 pm
      Going to be interesting what the Rodgers out Brigade have to say, if we smash the mancs and go 2nd in a couple of weeks. ;D

      Im hopeful the west ham game was a blip, new players, new coaches, captain injured etc. these things happen.

      And btw. I will be a Rodgers out person again if we have a lot of bad games like west ham, but Im willing to see what happens for a while. games will come thick and fast after this international break. Im still positive.
      I guess reading this post you been doing the hokey kokey eh .
       ;D
      TheRedMosquito
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 12,201 posts | 633 
      • Elmore James got nothin' on this baby!
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34462: Sep 02, 2015 07:01:04 pm
      Klopp, Zorc, and Buvac sounds more like a cast of characters from Star Trek than a set of football management.

      No wonder they seem ahead of their time.

      :lmao: True!

      Zorc mate.  He was the one who brought the players in.

      Gotcha. Zorc knows his sh*t, especially, the German market, plus some of the smaller markets like Japan and Poland.
      srslfc
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 32,374 posts | 4973 
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34463: Sep 02, 2015 07:02:23 pm
      :lmao: True!

      Gotcha. Zorc knows his sh*t, especially, the German market, plus some of the smaller markets like Japan and Poland.

      Zorc is to Klopp what Monchi is to Emery.

      Either pair was my ideal scenario this summer.
      PastorGeek
      • Not Actual Geek
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,632 posts | 765 
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34464: Sep 02, 2015 07:36:52 pm
      Look....on paper, it looks like a no brainer, I fully conceded that...but there's just this small fairly rational part of my brain that wonders "Well what if Ancelloti or Klopp come here and they can't get this team winning".

      Then what happens? Then we've become a club that just constantly switches managers in hopes of hitting the lottery basically. I think there is something to be said for continuity as long as there is upward progress and of course right now...the progress thing is the big gray area. I have to admit...my patience is wearing thin and I'm allowing myself to be swayed by much of the negative talk and I don't really like that...because I feel like it's better to have some patience and to get behind the club in times of duress. I guess the question everyone has to answer is where is there breaking point.


      i agree with this. But so many mistakes have been made. Particularly in the transfer market. How will it be rectified, how many more players can we possibly buy?
      stuey
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 36,044 posts | 3967 
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34465: Sep 02, 2015 07:42:24 pm
      I just wonder how on earth they'd be comfortable with the state of affairs. Even from a financial standpoint. On multiple fronts:

      1) I'd say that after all the money spent, there has been minimum £100m in sheer lost unrecoverable value in the club. Just in the Rodgers era. For example, buying Balo for £16m and his value now being £8m max. Allen for £15m and his value being a happy meal. Just a couple examples, but I imagine that if us fans saw a huge list of all the players with the numbers being listed out, we'd probably puke.

      After JWH's unqualified views on signing on fees he must look at the signings you indicate as a sign his modest aspiration is being followed; irrespective of the fortune of the club modest or otherwise.

      Quote
      2) The massive amounts of money that we're missing out on by not being in CL footy and coming in 6th in the league. Maybe they don't actually know how much money that is. I recall last week Sporting CP were knocked out of getting into the CL group stages and people were estimating that just that sheer miss alone cost them somewhere around €15m. Could you imagine the unrealized value that we've had by missing those marks?

      I am fully aware of the financial rewards the CL presents, in spite of the glaringly obvious that potential will not give you a sniff at the qualifying stages.
      Would the manager/transfer committee be affected by JWH's unqualified opinion on fees?

      Quote
      3) The club is losing value to potential investors every season that we play like this. Therefore the overall value of their investment continues to lose value. Which wouldn't spell good news for them either considering the money they're sinking for the Anfield expansion.

      On the contrary LFC represents a good market holding in the long term, being totally self sufficient as it is.

      Quote
      Simply don't understand how they'd feel comfortable with the state of affairs. Unless they've got something on the side that we don't see that is magically making them money, I think that I'd view the state of affairs as a money pit if I were in their shoes. Their money could certainly grow a lot quicker and more steadily in another area of investment.

      As above.

      Quote
      What I'm more interested in than probably anything else regarding this situation is exactly what was said to them by Brendan in order to sell them on at least another year of this nonsense. I know that he had no troubles throwing Pascoe and Marsh under the bus to save himself, but not sure what else he could've done in order to sell himself when probably a good 3/4 of the fan base wanted him gone - myself not included.

      You seem prone to want to burden Brendan with a good deal of the issues now surrounding the club, what makes you think Brendan had to convince anyone to remaln as manager?
      Do you not think JWH would be calling the shots in light of the manager's questionable CV?
      Irrespective of your opinion of the manager he is still there he is with the blessing of JWH & Co.

      Barnes10
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,631 posts | 88 
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34466: Sep 02, 2015 08:08:20 pm
      Nothing really seems to have changed very much. There's no fluency in the team; the defence is still dodgy and the attack is impotent.

      The lack of threat in attack after the money spent in the summer is the most damning indictment. We look as toothless as ever. Without Suarez and Sturridge there to pull out goals with their own raw talent, Rodgers seems to lack the ideas to create an attack that creates regular goal scoring chances. His defensive stupidity is highlighted by his persistence with Lovren - who is always an accident waiting to happen.

      It's all gloomy at the moment because Liverpool can't get hammered like that by such mediocre outfits at Anfield. Unfortunately it's a recurring occurence with Rodgers nowadays. I think we'll scramble along until his position is untenable, which in reality it was after the Stoke defeat last season. But with FSG in charge, and his cosy relationship with baseball guy/hedge fund guy/ now Director of football Mike Gordon, we might need to be in the relegation zone before they act.
      PastorGeek
      • Not Actual Geek
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,632 posts | 765 
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34467: Sep 02, 2015 08:26:12 pm
      Nothing really seems to have changed very much. There's no fluency in the team; the defence is still dodgy and the attack is impotent.

      The lack of threat in attack after the money spent in the summer is the most damning indictment. We look as toothless as ever. Without Suarez and Sturridge there to pull out goals with their own raw talent, Rodgers seems to lack the ideas to create an attack that creates regular goal scoring chances. His defensive stupidity is highlighted by his persistence with Lovren - who is always an accident waiting to happen.

      It's all gloomy at the moment because Liverpool can't get hammered like that by such mediocre outfits at Anfield. Unfortunately it's a recurring occurence with Rodgers nowadays. I think we'll scramble along until his position is untenable, which in reality it was after the Stoke defeat last season. But with FSG in charge, and his cosy relationship with baseball guy/hedge fund guy/ now Director of football Mike Gordon, we might need to be in the relegation zone before they act.

      im fearing a heavy defeat against united could cause our season to spiral into dortmund territory. But we'll have to wait and see.
      Barnes10
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,631 posts | 88 
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34468: Sep 02, 2015 08:35:11 pm
      im fearing a heavy defeat against united could cause our season to spiral into dortmund territory. But we'll have to wait and see.

      I could actually see us getting a draw. Our results will be very schizophrenic I suspect.
      American Red
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,157 posts | 179 
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34469: Sep 02, 2015 08:48:52 pm
      After JWH's unqualified views on signing on fees he must look at the signings you indicate as a sign his modest aspiration is being followed; irrespective of the fortune of the club modest or otherwise.

      I am fully aware of the financial rewards the CL presents, in spite of the glaringly obvious that potential will not give you a sniff at the qualifying stages.
      Would the manager/transfer committee be affected by JWH's unqualified opinion on fees?

      On the contrary LFC represents a good market holding in the long term, being totally self sufficient as it is.

      As above.

      You seem prone to want to burden Brendan with a good deal of the issues now surrounding the club, what makes you think Brendan had to convince anyone to remaln as manager?
      Do you not think JWH would be calling the shots in light of the manager's questionable CV?
      Irrespective of your opinion of the manager he is still there he is with the blessing of JWH & Co.

      You seem to be prone to burden JWH & Co. with Brendan's managerial issues. I'm not in the meetings and have absolutely no clue what goes on behind closed doors. But like with every other sport, I feel that a leader should take responsibility for their actions.

      Brendan is the leader of our team as our manager. He picks the first 11 and the squad, he chooses the tactics, he trains the players. He's had multiple falling outs with multiple players - is that FSG's fault? We have so many gaping holes in our squad that haven't been addressed, you don't think he's at all responsible for that? Do you really not think it was he who let Ilori go on loan again?

      If he's truly being "constrained" by the "shackles" of FSG as many people seem to believe he is, then don't you think it'd be his responsibility to resign as manager before his entire reputation is tarnished? Or at the very least his responsibility to step up and say no, I need these players, even if it's going to cost us more at the moment.

      To me, everyone is responsible, but it so happens that a manager can be changed a lot more easily than an owner.

      Regardless, my questions were surrounding JWH's views on the situation as a businessman. If I were in his shoes, and I were basing my decisions on a value perspective, my top priorities would be to get back into the champions league and mount a title challenge as soon as possible. They would not be to aspire to be a modest side who's consistent objective is to try to break into the top four.
      hardcoresoldier
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 5,160 posts | 1288 
      • The Liverpool Way is The Only Way
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34470: Sep 02, 2015 09:00:19 pm
      The big problem for me is that Rodgers seems to have lost his way. It is almost as if he is starting to question his own beliefs. Every defeat seems to make him panic and need to try something different, when in fact he just needs to stick to what he believes in and ride this out.

      When you lose a game so poorly as we did against West Ham United then it's natural that he will question his decisions. If he is to get through this then he has to stand firm, it's no good clutching at straws, it might just be the short one. If he allows panic to set in then it's over.

      He has to get those players behind him, it is his job as manager to unite this Squad and put some fire and fight back into our game. If this group of players don't want to play for him then he has to go. He has to prove he's got the balls to stand up and fight. It's on the training ground and the pitch that you do your talking here, not blabbering on in the pressers and post matches.
      Scotia
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 8,991 posts | 3064 
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34471: Sep 02, 2015 09:01:17 pm
      Zorc is to Klopp what Monchi is to Emery.

      Either pair was my ideal scenario this summer.

      Yep x 2
      stuey
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 36,044 posts | 3967 
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34472: Sep 02, 2015 11:03:20 pm
      You seem to be prone to burden JWH & Co. with Brendan's managerial issues. I'm not in the meetings and have absolutely no clue what goes on behind closed doors. But like with every other sport, I feel that a leader should take responsibility for their actions.

      Brendan is the leader of our team as our manager. He picks the first 11 and the squad, he chooses the tactics, he trains the players. He's had multiple falling outs with multiple players - is that FSG's fault? We have so many gaping holes in our squad that haven't been addressed, you don't think he's at all responsible for that? Do you really not think it was he who let Ilori go on loan again?

      If he's truly being "constrained" by the "shackles" of FSG as many people seem to believe he is, then don't you think it'd be his responsibility to resign as manager before his entire reputation is tarnished? Or at the very least his responsibility to step up and say no, I need these players, even if it's going to cost us more at the moment.

      To me, everyone is responsible, but it so happens that a manager can be changed a lot more easily than an owner.

      Regardless, my questions were surrounding JWH's views on the situation as a businessman. If I were in his shoes, and I were basing my decisions on a value perspective, my top priorities would be to get back into the champions league and mount a title challenge as soon as possible. They would not be to aspire to be a modest side who's consistent objective is to try to break into the top four.

      How can anyone have expectation of the highest order when he is unable to acquire the means to reach such a target?
      American Red
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,157 posts | 179 
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34473: Sep 03, 2015 12:05:23 am
      How can anyone have expectation of the highest order when he is unable to acquire the means to reach such a target?

      He spent £45m between Lallana and Lovren. £10m on Can, £10m on Origi, £5m on Lambert, £20m on Markovic, £12m on Moreno, and £16m on Balo.

      That's £118m on 8 players, when all we realistically needed to replace were 3-4. Of those 8 players, 2 have been loaned out, 1 sold, 1 not even used in an actual game yet, 3 have decreased heavily in value (Lovren and Lallana probably worth about half of what we paid), and 1 has turned out to put in some decent performances - Can.

      For those 3-4 holes in our squad, we could've averaged about £30m a player and bought proven, good players that all worked well in a similar system and performed the role we need to, instead, we bought 8 players that are known for their versatility, and were good at mediocre clubs.

      £118m plus spent in a single summer. You can't honestly tell me that we don't have the means to acquire good players. Multiple people are responsible for this, but to victimize Brendan is simply wrong. He is just as much responsible as anyone else, if not more. He is the face of management for our club and should take responsibility for our failures, in my opinion.
      ORCHARD RED
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 8,526 posts | 1457 
      • 6 Times!
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34474: Sep 03, 2015 05:28:41 am
      He spent £45m between Lallana and Lovren. £10m on Can, £10m on Origi, £5m on Lambert, £20m on Markovic, £12m on Moreno, and £16m on Balo.

      That's £118m on 8 players, when all we realistically needed to replace were 3-4. Of those 8 players, 2 have been loaned out, 1 sold, 1 not even used in an actual game yet, 3 have decreased heavily in value (Lovren and Lallana probably worth about half of what we paid), and 1 has turned out to put in some decent performances - Can.

      For those 3-4 holes in our squad, we could've averaged about £30m a player and bought proven, good players that all worked well in a similar system and performed the role we need to, instead, we bought 8 players that are known for their versatility, and were good at mediocre clubs.

      £118m plus spent in a single summer. You can't honestly tell me that we don't have the means to acquire good players. Multiple people are responsible for this, but to victimize Brendan is simply wrong. He is just as much responsible as anyone else, if not more. He is the face of management for our club and should take responsibility for our failures, in my opinion.
      How many of those players would be here, if Brendan was solely in charge of deciding which players were brought in? I am sure he would have chosen  quality over quantity, but that decision was taken out of his hands.
      Looking at it now, it seems obvious that Mario and Markovic weren't Brendan's signings, maybe Moreno as well.

      But maybe you're right, maybe Brendan should shoulder the blame, after all he did agree to this transfer committee, and doesn't have the balls to ask for a change.
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34475: Sep 03, 2015 07:13:11 am
      He spent £45m between Lallana and Lovren. £10m on Can, £10m on Origi, £5m on Lambert, £20m on Markovic, £12m on Moreno, and £16m on Balo.

      That's £118m on 8 players, when all we realistically needed to replace were 3-4. Of those 8 players, 2 have been loaned out, 1 sold, 1 not even used in an actual game yet, 3 have decreased heavily in value (Lovren and Lallana probably worth about half of what we paid), and 1 has turned out to put in some decent performances - Can.

      For those 3-4 holes in our squad, we could've averaged about £30m a player and bought proven, good players that all worked well in a similar system and performed the role we need to, instead, we bought 8 players that are known for their versatility, and were good at mediocre clubs.

      £118m plus spent in a single summer. You can't honestly tell me that we don't have the means to acquire good players. Multiple people are responsible for this, but to victimize Brendan is simply wrong. He is just as much responsible as anyone else, if not more. He is the face of management for our club and should take responsibility for our failures, in my opinion.

      It's smoke and mirrors though to an extent

      Look I agree that we should have spent more wisely without a doubt but a lot of that money has been generated by sales and the net spend is always around the same figure

      We shouldn't be looking really at the gross or net outlet, the area we can't or seemly won't compete with those above us is wages

      That's the key area we can't compete with the big boys in

      The over riding lack of plan and end goal is more what frustrates me, the fingers crossed aspect to our transfer work, the buy potential and hope

      For the money in fees we have spent we should have s better than average squad and level of player we have.. I think almost every player in our squad has limitations and a ceiling in ability, none really excite me and wonder simply how good they could become and that's a sad indictment of our transfer work

      But the spend is smoke and mirrors when you look at player sales and what wages we can or are willing to offer..
      The only promise from John Henry's letter he seems to have kept is that we won't be paying out of over inflated wages, the wage bill for standout players has reduced, now we have a load of lads on similar amounts all with limitations, no standouts in the squad, no real star quality

      A flawed transfer policy

      Those players you name at the beginning of your post, players not on elite wages for a reason, they aren't  elite players.

      4 of them kids, 2 of them gambles as in players at lower level clubs best players and then a gamble for them to transfer their form from lower levels to attempted elite level, one gamble of a f**k head, one end of career lower level journey man
      Not an elite top level player in them, not one that our perceived rivals would go for, not one on elite wages

      All fairly safe, but at the same time utter gambles

      Flawed running of the club
      Rush
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 9,564 posts | 1549 
      • "If you are second, you are nothing."
      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34476: Sep 03, 2015 07:55:31 am
      I think he's got until Christmas and I think that's the right thing to do here. That said, I honestly believe that 2 or 3 poor results and he'll be gone.

      As for if/when that happens, I'm not sure FSG won't hire someone like Ancelotti or Rafa. I used to think they wouldn't back them with the sort of money they'd expect, but FSG are slowly showing me that they in do back their managers. Not to the extent Chelsea, City and Utd do, but enough that if the money is spent wisely (i.e. no more buying a pool of 16 players only to sell on or loan out half of them within 18 months), they can get a top class player every summer transfer window.

      Quick Reply