Suarez in English football:- Is he a Messi/Ronaldo waiting to happen?

He's scored 18 goals in all competitions in half a season. If he has a second half of a season with the same amount of goals, that's 36 goals in all competitions, in a much tougher league, with mediocre players around him. I think it's very possible he'd be scoring the amount Messi or Ronaldo do if he was in Spain playing with the Real or Barca players around him.

That would still be just over 10 goals fewer than Ronaldo's total last season.

Also it's 'Suarez in ENGLISH football:- Is he a Messi/Ronaldo waiting to happen?'

I just disagree the EPL is a stronger league. It certainly doesn't have a team that stand out like Barcelona - and they stand out partly because Messi is too good -, and playing for Liverpool is much harder than playing for Barcelona, but it's not as if it's necessarily harder to score in England.

It might have been true in the past but not so much anymore. In fact, the club who are top of the EPL right now have an awful defense - not really difficult to score against the top team in the country.

So far this season, the EPL has an average of 2.87 goals per game, while in the Spanish La Liga the average is 2.85 goals per game.

I just disagree the EPL is a stronger league. It certainly doesn't have a team that stand out like Barcelona - and they stand out partly because Messi is too good -, and playing for Liverpool is much harder than playing for Barcelona, but it's not as if it's necessarily harder to score in England.

It might have been true in the past but not so much anymore. In fact, the club who are top of the EPL right now have an awful defense - not really difficult to score against the top team in the country.

So far this season, the EPL has an average of 2.87 goals per game, while in the Spanish La Liga the average is 2.85 goals per game.

I think that's because the defending has been absolute sh*t this season throughout the whole league. There's also been an influx of more creative attacking players in the past few seasons.

I however don't think there can be a massive scorer like Ronaldo and Messi in England. It's a different tactical game and there's a lot more hacking going on by defenders. Suarez takes a beating every game, for example, in part because the defenders don't have the technical ability to stop him so they use their physical attributes. Kind of thuggish.

Just did the maths myself, and for goals per game it's: EPL 2.84 vs La Liga's 2.85.

Which means we have the better defences. Which means Suarez is having a tougher time. By about 0.34%.

Thank you and goodnight.

And don't feed me the bullshit that 'they play in better teams'. Yes they certainly do but thats football, you cannot use that as an excuse to take away the credentials of Ronaldo and Messi, they still had to tuck their chances away. Suarez misses a lot more even though he has been more clinical of late.

Boy, are you trying to be funny?

World Cup 2010: Luis Suárez scored 3 goals for Uruguay. "Steroids Beast" Messi scored zero goals for Argentina. Uruguay reached semifinals, and almost made it to the finals. Argentina was crushed 4-0 in quarters by Germany.

Cup América 2011: Luis Suárez scored 4 goals for Uruguay. "Biodroid" Messi scored zero goals for Argentina. Uruguay won the Cup. Argentina didn't even reach semifinals. Luis Suárez received the Award for Best Player in the Cup. "Baby Frankenstein" Messi received jeers and spittles from angry Argentinian fans, and severe judgments from journalists who called his game "half-arsed" and "scaredy".

Steroids can do many things for you: they can build muscle, they can improve your speed... but, if you have the heart of a chicken, they can do nothing to fix that. Lionel "Artificial Construct" Messi can only play good football when the whole Barca machine is backing him and making game just for him. Otherwise, he's sh*te.

Luis Suárez is a different kind of man. He's the sort of player who can carry a team to victory all by himself.

Show more respect.

That would still be just over 10 goals fewer than Ronaldo's total last season.

Also it's 'Suarez in ENGLISH football:- Is he a Messi/Ronaldo waiting to happen?'

"With mediocre players around him". That's the point everyone is making.

Just did the maths myself, and for goals per game it's: EPL 2.84 vs La Liga's 2.85.

Which means we have the better defences. Which means Suarez is having a tougher time. By about 0.34%.

Thank you and goodnight.

I'm afraid your maths are wrong.


You probably assumed every team has played 21 games (which would make a total of 210 games played), while in fact there has been 208 games

597/210 = 2.84
597/208 = 2.87

I'm afraid your maths are wrong.

La Liga: 485 goals
Matches: 17
Goals/game: 2.85

EPL: 597 goals
Matches: 21
Goals/game: 2.84

I just disagree the EPL is a stronger league. It certainly doesn't have a team that stand out like Barcelona - and they stand out partly because Messi is too good -, and playing for Liverpool is much harder than playing for Barcelona, but it's not as if it's necessarily harder to score in England.

It might have been true in the past but not so much anymore. In fact, the club who are top of the EPL right now have an awful defense - not really difficult to score against the top team in the country.

So far this season, the EPL has an average of 2.87 goals per game, while in the Spanish La Liga the average is 2.85 goals per game.

It's not that it's more difficult, it's harder insofar as being more physical, putting greater demands on the body, and faster than La Liga, allowing you less time on the ball and less time to think about what you want to do with it.

Boy, are you trying to be funny?

World Cup 2010: Luis Suárez scored 3 goals for Uruguay. "Steroids Beast" Messi scored zero goals for Argentina. Uruguay reached semifinals, and almost made it to the finals. Argentina was crushed 4-0 in quarters by Germany.

Cup América 2011: Luis Suárez scored 4 goals for Uruguay. "Biodroid" Messi scored zero goals for Argentina. Uruguay won the Cup. Argentina didn't even reach semifinals. Luis Suárez received the Award for Best Player in the Cup. "Baby Frankenstein" Messi received jeers and spittles from angry Argentinian fans, and severe judgments from journalists who called his game "half-arsed" and "scaredy".

Steroids can do many things for you: they can build muscle, they can improve your speed... but, if you have the heart of a chicken, they can do nothing to fix that. Lionel "Artificial Construct" Messi can only play good football when the whole Barca machine is backing him and making game just for him. Otherwise, he's sh*te.

Luis Suárez is a different kind of man. He's the sort of player who can carry a team to victory all by himself.

Show more respect.

In all fairness you make a valid point, Suarez did/has performed better on many occasions. But what about club football? I couldn't give a toss about Internationals tbh, I'm a Liverpool fan and Suarez is a Liverpool player, I'm neither Uruguayan (sp) or Argentinian. But I don't see you mention the hat-trick Leo Messi scored against Brazil.

Anyone who thinks Lionel Messi is sh*t is an absolute arsehole and doesn't know a single thing about football. This isn't a debate about whether who plays in a better team, this is a debate on if Luis Suarez is possibly the Messi/Ronaldo of English football.

So is he? No
Will he be? No

Reasons - Please see previous comments. Anybody who thinks Suarez can do what Messi/Ronaldo have done in any league for any team is an absolute donkey. Messi and Ronaldo are donkey miles apart from any other player in the world and anyone on here who thinks differently is a biased Liverpool fan I'm afraid.

Before I get bullshit saying I'm a WUM, I actually wish you were all right, I hope to God I'm proved wrong by all measures. Come on Luis prove me wrong!

It's not that it's more difficult, it's harder insofar as being more physical, putting greater demands on the body, and faster than La Liga, allowing you less time on the ball and less time to think about what you want to do with it.

I agree there are differences between the league, most notably the pace of the game, but it does not necessarily translate into more difficulty of scoring goals, certainly not at the moment. Besides, fast paced games also means defenses more exposed. I'm not sure about last season's average but I would believe the difference was only marginal as well (my quick maths say EPL's average was 2.81 against La Liga's 2.76 )

I agree there are differences between the league, most notably the pace of the game, but it does not necessarily translate into more difficulty of scoring goals, certainly not at the moment. Besides, fast paced games also means defenses more exposed. I'm not sure about last season's average but I would believe the difference was only marginal as well (my quick maths say EPL's average was 2.81 against La Liga's 2.76 )

What I'm suggesting is that certain players are better equipped to handle the pressures, both physical and mental (i.e. less time to think) than others are. We know Ronaldo is because he played here. We know Luis is because he plays here. We don't know whether Messi would because he hasn't nor doesn't. So the statement that Messi is the greatest player of all time or that Luis would not score anywhere as many Messi, are both without substance. They're total unknowns. However, given that Luis has scored 10 goals in 27 appearances at Nacional, 10 goals in 29 appearances at Groningen, 81goals in 110 appearances at Ajax and now 30 goals in 64 appearances so far for us, it's a pretty safe bet he'd be up there as one of Primera Liga's top scorers.

What I'm suggesting is that certain players are better equipped to handle the pressures, both physical and mental (i.e. less time to think) than others are. We know Ronaldo is because he played here. We know Luis is because he plays here. We don't know whether Messi would because he hasn't nor doesn't. So the statement that Messi is the greatest player of all time or that Luis would not score anywhere as many Messi, are both without substance. They're total unknowns. However, given that Luis has scored 10 goals in 27 appearances at Nacional, 10 goals in 29 appearances at Groningen, 81goals in 110 appearances at Ajax and now 30 goals in 64 appearances so far for us, it's a pretty safe bet he'd be up there as one of Primera Liga's top scorers.

So basically you're saying that we don't know if Messi would score as many in the EPL because he has never played there, but despite Suarez never having played in La Liga, it's a "safe bet" he would be among top scorers in Spain?

I don't even disagree with you - I think Suarez would definitely be among the top scorers there, because he is a terrific footballer. But I have no doubt Messi would be brilliant in England as well. He doesn't seem to have much of a problem with the so called physicality of the English teams when he plays against them.

As I said: despite the so called "physical and mental pressures", there are more goals being scored in England than in Spain.

You see, players do not necessarily find it harder to score in England than elsewhere. Take Demba Ba, recently bought by Chelsea - he scored 40 goals in Germany for Hoffenheim in 104 games. He had 37 for Newcastle in just 71 appearences.

In all fairness you make a valid point, Suarez did/has performed better on many occasions. But what about club football? I couldn't give a toss about Internationals tbh, I'm a Liverpool fan and Suarez is a Liverpool player, I'm neither Uruguayan (sp) or Argentinian. But I don't see you mention the hat-trick Leo Messi scored against Brazil.

What, in a friendly match, against Brazilians who weren't even trying? Whee. What a player. Keep going like that, Lio, my lad, score in the friendlies and punk out in the title matches. Supporters will love you for that.

Suárez scored four goals against the tough Chilean team, and that wasn't in a friendly. It was in their WCQ match six months ago. (What do you call four goals, btw? A poker-trick?) Compare their CA and WC performances and, no matter how you look at it, goals, results, titles, whatever, Suárez beats Messi.

Anyone who thinks Lionel Messi is sh*t is an absolute arsehole and doesn't know a single thing about football. This isn't a debate about whether who plays in a better team, this is a debate on if Luis Suarez is possibly the Messi/Ronaldo of English football.

I guess all the Argentinian fans who spat at Messi and all the journalists from all over the world who called him a punky little coward after CA 2011 don't know a single thing about football then. *sigh*

As for the debate, frame it properly before complaning. You say the question is whether Luis will ever be the Messi of English football. Do you mean "Will Luis ever embark into a massive steroids body-building plan, like Messi did?" If that's the question, the answer is: No, he won't, ever. Luis doesn't do steroids and doesn't need them. If the question is "Will Luis ever punk out when they call him to play for his national team, like Messi does all the time?" then the answer is: No, never, he's a man, not a chicken like Messi. If the question is "Will Liverpool ever have an all-star team of super players, like Barcelona, and play for Luis as Barcelona plays for Messi?" then the answer is: we can only hope. Because seeing Luis score two, three, four goals every match, as he did when he played for Ajax (the Barcelona of the Dutch league, both in money and in style of play), would certainly make all of us very happy.

no matter how you look at it, goals, results, titles, whatever, Suárez beats Messi.

So basically you're saying that we don't know if Messi would score as many in the EPL because he has never played there, but despite Suarez never having played in La Liga, it's a "safe bet" he would be among top scorers in Spain?

Not exactly. Firstly I'm not taking anything away from the brilliance that is Messi. However, he's only ever played in Spain (Barca) where as Ronaldo and Suarez have both proven their goal scoring prowess across multiple leagues. What I'm saying is that you cannot claim someone is the greatest player of all time just on the basis of scoring lots of goals in a single league because each league has its own set of strengths and weaknesses that only the msot talented players can adapt to (again, I'm not suggesting Messi couldn't adapt to the EPL). Nor has Messi done anything to set the international scene on fire where as both Ronaldo and Suarez have. You then have to look at the comparative teams surrounding Suarez compared to Ronaldo and Messi and take that in to consideration. If we do that and we then look at their comparative domestic scoring records as a combined over career at senior level, Ronaldo has scored in 62% of his appearances, Suarez has scored in 61% of his appearances. Given the superiority of the teams surrounding Ronaldo at both Utd and Real, there is a mere 1% difference in goals per appearance ratio. Whilst Messi has scored in 85% of his games, he's only done so in Spain and again, with a team that's not just brimming with quality but a team that has been built around him. Then look at their respective international records. Luis 50%, Messi 40% and Ronaldo 37% goals per appearance. Luis clearly has the best record.

Therefore, given that Ronaldo and Messi are considered the two greatest players of the current age, coupled with the fact that Ronaldo and Suarez have almost identical goals per appearance percentages and taking in to account that Messi has only done it in Spain and that both the Real and Barca teams are vastly superior in their quality to the current LFC side (and only a lunatic is going to dispute that!) it's not unreasonable to suggest that where Luis playing in either Barcalona or Real Madrid, he too would be one of Spain's top goal scorers each season.

It would be ridiculous to base a player's greatness by their goal scoring. I hear often that Ronaldo is better than Messi because Ronaldo can score in Spain and in England but Messi only scores in Spain. On that basis, then Ruud van Nistelrooy should be the best since he has scored in England, Netherlands, Germany and Spain.

I believe Suarez himself will get a decent return if he was in La Liga and so would Messi if he was in the Premier League. There's that thing about English football being very physical but Messi does not seem to have a problem when he faces an English team.

In my personal opinion, I feel Suarez is the closest we have to a Messi.  He dribbles past players easily albeit in a different way. While this season Suarez can be considered more clinical in comparison to last season, he has taken about 120 shots to score his 15 league goals and Messi has like 26 goals in 90 shots.

Not exactly. Firstly I'm not taking anything away from the brilliance that is Messi. However, he's only ever played in Spain (Barca) where as Ronaldo and Suarez have both proven their goal scoring prowess across multiple leagues. What I'm saying is that you cannot claim someone is the greatest player of all time just on the basis of scoring lots of goals in a single league because each league has its own set of strengths and weaknesses that only the msot talented players can adapt to (again, I'm not suggesting Messi couldn't adapt to the EPL). Nor has Messi done anything to set the international scene on fire where as both Ronaldo and Suarez have. You then have to look at the comparative teams surrounding Suarez compared to Ronaldo and Messi and take that in to consideration. If we do that and we then look at their comparative domestic scoring records as a combined over career at senior level, Ronaldo has scored in 62% of his appearances, Suarez has scored in 61% of his appearances. Given the superiority of the teams surrounding Ronaldo at both Utd and Real, there is a mere 1% difference in goals per appearance ratio. Whilst Messi has scored in 85% of his games, he's only done so in Spain and again, with a team that's not just brimming with quality but a team that has been built around him. Then look at their respective international records. Luis 50%, Messi 40% and Ronaldo 37% goals per appearance. Luis clearly has the best record.

Therefore, given that Ronaldo and Messi are considered the two greatest players of the current age, coupled with the fact that Ronaldo and Suarez have almost identical goals per appearance percentages and taking in to account that Messi has only done it in Spain and that both the Real and Barca teams are vastly superior in their quality to the current LFC side (and only a lunatic is going to dispute that!) it's not unreasonable to suggest that where Luis playing in either Barcalona or Real Madrid, he too would be one of Spain's top goal scorers each season.

Haha dont be daft mate. You are poiting out just one of various problems between comparing players of different teams, ages and often positions. Besides, the other leagues where Suarez is proven are of ridiculously lower quality - I fancy Messi to score over 100 goals a year if he played in Holland. Ronaldo was only near as prolific for Utd as he is for Resl in one season. You are being ridiculously simplistic to suggest people claim Messi to be the best "just" because ge scores a lot pf goals and reducing the argument to it.

Haha dont be daft mate. You are poiting out just one of various problems between comparing players of different teams, ages and often positions. Besides, the other leagues where Suarez is proven are of ridiculously lower quality - I fancy Messi to score over 100 goals a year if he played in Holland. Ronaldo was only near as prolific for Utd as he is for Resl in one season. You are being ridiculously simplistic to suggest people claim Messi to be the best "just" because ge scores a lot pf goals and reducing the argument to it.

Don't be so bloody stupid and go read the damn posts in this thread. Almost every detractor of the claim Suarez is up there with Ronaldo and Messi do so on the basis of the latter two scoring more goals. That's the entire point of my post. If you are going to claim X is better than Y on goals then look at Y's goal scoring record before doing so.

Don't be so bloody stupid and go read the damn posts in this thread. Almost every detractor of the claim Suarez is up there with Ronaldo and Messi do so on the basis of the latter two scoring more goals. That's the entire point of my post. If you are going to claim X is better than Y on goals then look at Y's goal scoring record before doing so.

and Im saying your whole point about Suarez being proven in different leagues is ridiculous, in special considering the weakness of the Durch league. Messi actaually has a better record than Luis during his time at Ajax while playing against better opponents. Then again one could always point out that playing for Barca is much easier, which brings that whole debate to square one again. Its all about opinions and no one is going to prove anything with numbers and an awfully flawed logic.

no matter how you look at it, goals, results, titles, whatever, Suárez beats Messi.

Wow I've heard it all now. Messi has more goals, titles/accolades, team results and whatever else you can think of than Suarez. If Messi stopped playing now and Suarez went to Barcelona, he still wouldn't achieve what Messi has. He's won THREE Ballon D'Ors lmao, THREE, soon to be a FOURTH! Am I the only sane person participating in this thread?! Haha

All this about leagues and could Messi do what he does in England? Yes he could, he scored 4 goals vs Arsenal, 4 unbelievable goals! Suarez would do great in Spain but nowhere near as good as Messi has done but these are two things I doubt we'll ever know, its just my opinion if it did happen.

Also what's all this bollocks about Messi taking drugs? As far as I know he's taken something to enhance his growth, but he still had to score the 90 goals he scored last year. Also do you know Lionel Messi personally? Hell no so don't listen to everything you read!.

If Suarez is/could be as good as Messi, don't you think he'd have got more recognition by people? Everyone mentions Messi as one of the greatest to have lived, Suarez is not even mentioned in the same breath. Put this thread on any other football forum and us Liverpool fans would be classed as jokers. Too many biased opinions on here IMO :/

Wow, maybe it was me who missed the point! I saw the topic as asking the question if Suarez could just explode, much like how Messi and Ronaldo did. They had decent goal returns and then BAM, just became these absolute monsters. The way I saw this thread was asking if Suarez, could do the same thing and just become this absolute machine of a player.

He could do it, IMO, if he had the right team around him, he's rarely injured and the system seems to be getting the best out of him. Is he the same level as Messi and Ronaldo? Don't be silly. They've proved it over and over again, Suarez hasn't achieved a fraction of what they have, but he could walk into both their teams, he's ridiculously talented and we're very lucky to have him.

The only reason Suarez hasn't been declared  as the player in ranks of Messi and Ronaldo or even near that is because Liverpool haven't been playing in CL or winning some major trophies IMO. If he sticks around long enough while us building a great side and winning consistently he should be one of the main candidates for winning the player of the year award. Look at it this way; We are currently 8th and he is second best goal scorer in the PL while being our most cosistent goal scorer and creator. For me ( being a Liverpool supporter) he is the best in the world! No doubt! Can't wait for the next season although I tip him for the golden boot this season.

Like RedWilly said "he's ridiculously talented and we're very lucky to have him".