Fabio Borini (Liverpool > Sunderland)

So F***ing what that Borini didn't work out for us?? Or dozens of other signings for that matter.

I think you are missing the point. Any player could fail to work out for us. But there are players who were never good enough to even have the chance to work out for us. Borini unfortunately is such player as was Downing, Carroll in my opinion and many others. So speaking frankly this is more a club's fault than it is the player's. What I have seen from him he is trying really hard it is not a matter of motivation or desire, it is a matter of footballing qualities which he had never had.

Rafa made loads of dud signings when in charge. So f**king what it happens get over it FFS!

To be fair Rafa was working with even less money than Rodgers has under stingy FSG.  Rafa had David Silva, Alves etc lined up but H&G wouldn't go for it.  He was severely restricted.

Anyway the difference between those "other clubs" who have signings that don't come off is that we don't have sugar daddies like Madrid and City and Chelsea etc.  A player doesn't work out for them, no problem, their owners just write another cheque.  Whereas we can't afford to have signings not work.

And as I said, the question is not about signings that don't pan out---the question is about signing players who even before we sign them, they have never shown ever that they are good enough.  You could make a strong case that each of the players we've signed this summer has shown he is good enough to play for us.

whereas you never could have made that case when Borini signed. 

I think you are missing the point. Any player could fail to work out for us. But there are players who were never good enough to even have the chance to work out for us. Borini unfortunately is such player as was Downing, Carroll in my opinion and many others. So speaking frankly this is more a club's fault than it is the player's. What I have seen from him he is trying really hard it is not a matter of motivation or desire, it is a matter of footballing qualities which he had never had.

No you're missing the point. Borini, Carroll and Downing all showed promise at their clubs prior to joining us. Therefore, like all clubs do, we signed them based on this promise. And like every signing there is an element of risk attached as to whether they will be successful or not. Even at the highest level some signings work out others don't. This is evident throughout every clubs transfer history. If you don't know this you don't know much about football.

The point is, we never should have signed him in the first place.  By allowing him into Liverpool Football Club we made him believe he is better than he is.  And because he now thinks so highly of himself, he turns his nose up at QPR and Sunderland. 

If someone had just been straight with him 2 years ago he wouldn't have been in this situation. 

we're at least equally at fault for the incessant purchasing of sh*te players that has gone on at the club for the last 5 years.  This summer we finally broke free of it.  But players like Borini, Downing, Adam etc, they were NEVER GOOD ENOUGH for us even BEFORE they signed for us.  But putting on the shirt and getting their foot in the door, makes them never want to leave.  And it ends up costing us.  In Downing's case we had to pay off the rest of his wages before he fu**ed off to West Ham.  In Borini's case we will now have to pay him for at least the next few months to do precisely sweet f**k all. 

This all could have been avoided if we would have just not signed sh*te in the first place.  And before you go on about not knowing how the player will be etc before signing him, that is a bunch of bollocks.  Everyone and their mother knew that Borini lacked pace, lacked technique on the ball, lacked trickery to play on the wing in a pinch, etc.  And---wow!---for some reason he didn't magically turn into a player with pace and trickery just by signing for us. 

Now take someone like Markovic.  Who knows how his career will turn out for us.  But what we can know for sure, and what was known before he signed, was that he had the tools necessary to be successful---pace, an excellent first touch, vision, and trickery.  Those are the tools to be successful.  It's up to him whether he uses them.

But someone like Borini never had the tools in the first place. 

So it makes you wonder, why sign a player without those tools?

Some F***ing n*b is smoking the same gear as you and given you a + for that F***ing nonsense.
If you think Borini's record is beyond reproach and the club is faulted your reasoning is woefully faulted, if you apply the same tenets to your own lifestyle you are in deep sh*t.

No you're missing the point. Borini, Carroll and Downing all showed promise at their clubs prior to joining us.

You think that before we signed them, Borini, Carroll and Downing all showed enough promise to deserve a chance at playing for us, Liverpool Football Club?

You really think that?

I mean honestly.

Do you truly, honestly believe that?

If you think Borini's record is beyond reproach and the club is faulted your reasoning is woefully faulted, if you apply the same tenets to your own lifestyle you are in deep sh*t.

I didn't say that.

I think Borini is an awful footballer.  Truly awful.

But if you put a five year deal and 40K a week in front of an awful football player, he's going to bite your arm off.

The question is, why did we do it?

You think that before we signed them, Borini, Carroll and Downing all showed enough promise to deserve a chance at playing for us, Liverpool Football Club?

You really think that?

I mean honestly.

Do you truly, honestly believe that?

Ah we were struggling in the league, had no champions league football and had just been bought by new owners so at the very beginning of a restructuring process. We signed players the management thought could improve a very poor squad at the time. And yes all three did show promise in their previous clubs and were off the back of successful seasons. They didn't work out they were/will be sold. It happens in football. End of.

So F***ing what that Borini didn't work out for us?? Or dozens of other signings for that matter. What F***ing club in the history of football had all it's signings work out successfully for them? Your moaning about the clubs signings is beyond F***ing obnoxious. Every manager makes signings that don't live up to expectations. And it's not just over the last 5 years for us either. Rafa made loads of dud signings when in charge. So F***ing what it happens get over it FFS!

Not forgetting of course Downing, Carroll and a multitude of other saw the obvious and fu**ed off to a club more befitting of their downgraded expectation, Borini and/or his agent refuse to face reality for nothing else but undeserved reward.
Karma will kick Borini and/or his agent up the arse very soon.

"Why do you want Philipp Degen gone so badly he is not a first teamer or holding back any youngsters from breaking through. Might prove useful in some of the Cup competitions and besides his wages are hardly crippling."

Why don't you stop being a c**t......I am assuming your a grown adult?

I didn't say that.

I think Borini is an awful footballer.  Truly awful.

But if you put a five year deal and 40K a week in front of an awful football player, he's going to bite your arm off.

The question is, why did we do it?

Are you F***ing thick?
As has been pointed out every manager has a F**k up occasionally but the true worth of the man is an overall picture of his signings and the end product.
It isn't mentioned too much but Ferguson's F**k ups in the transfer markets outshine BR's and Benitez' by a country mile.

Are you f**king thick?
As has been pointed out every manager has a f**k up occasionally but the true worth of the man is an overall picture of his signings and the end product.
It isn't mentioned too much but Ferguson's f**k ups in the transfer markets outshine BR's and Benitez' by a country mile.

There's no point mate some of our posters really do destroy the myth of LFC having the most knowledgable fans!

To be fair Rafa was working with even less money than Rodgers has under stingy FSG.  Rafa had David Silva, Alves etc lined up but H&G wouldn't go for it.  He was severely restricted.

Anyway the difference between those "other clubs" who have signings that don't come off is that we don't have sugar daddies like Madrid and City and Chelsea etc.  A player doesn't work out for them, no problem, their owners just write another cheque.  Whereas we can't afford to have signings not work.

And as I said, the question is not about signings that don't pan out---the question is about signing players who even before we sign them, they have never shown ever that they are good enough.  You could make a strong case that each of the players we've signed this summer has shown he is good enough to play for us.

whereas you never could have made that case when Borini signed. 

Rafa's spending in his first 4 seasons is comparable to Rodgers spending when factoring in inflated player prices over the last ten years. It doesn't matter about the players Rafa didn't sign only the players he did. And while a few were successful the majority were poor. Rodgers has on the whole made more successful signings so far than Rafa did in my opinion. And sugar daddy or no sugar daddy players don't always work out its a fact of football. Borini cost us £10 million and will likely be sold next summer for the same amount. So it's no big deal not something you need to have a constant twist in your knickers over.

I didn't say that.

I think Borini is an awful footballer.  Truly awful.

But if you put a five year deal and 40K a week in front of an awful football player, he's going to bite your arm off.

The question is, why did we do it?

Borini was potentially a good buy, like Sterling, Henderson or Sturridge - unlike those players he didn't live up to that potential.
If Sterling, Henderson or Sturridge had been offered a loan deal on sh*t money would we have secured their services?
Borini hasn't repaid the faith put in him, in the monetary scheme of things or the moral side

£14m would have been good business on a £10m purchase. 40% return. But that leaves us short up front if we sustain injuries.

But the fact is we do not know what BR said to him. Perhaps BR told him it's up to him and BR wouldn't mind if he stays or leaves.

There's no point mate some of our posters really do destroy the myth of LFC having the most knowledgable fans!

It isn't a myth mate it's a fact, the other fella is trying to make it a myth but it is he who has no knowledge of LFC.

edit: See he's fu**ed off now and not on this thread anymore, failed miserably to wind anyone up.

If he works hard in training and does not moan about being left out in many occasions, I would be happy to have him as another option. Why not?

He's a good option and can also play on the wings. I'm not saying that he is brilliant but he is decent enough to be with us and can be an option if there are some injuries.

£14m would have been good business on a £10m purchase. 40% return. But that leaves us short up front if we sustain injuries.

But the fact is we do not know what BR said to him. Perhaps BR told him it's up to him and BR wouldn't mind if he stays or leaves.

Ah now Ruth hold on a second dont ye know some of our posters here are privy to every converstion that goes on at the club. If they
say Brendan told Borini he doesnt want him well then damn it thats what Brendan said no doubt about it.

Mate you are a joke.. really. Just stop insulting people who happen to have different opinion than yours and stop embarrassing yourself. Being more on this forum makes you a person with a lot of spare time not some 'knowledgeable fan'.

See he's fu**ed off now and not on this thread anymore, failed miserably to wind anyone up.

failed miserably to wind anyone up.

Why exactly do you consistently think that people who disagree with you are trying to wind you up?  No one is winding anyone up.  We're just talking, calmly, about the situation re: transfers, and in this case Borini. 

The point that you keep missing is this:

The issue is NOT that signing a player is not a gamble.  No one ever said that.  On the contrary.  Every single signing is a gamble.  Hell, Suarez going to Barcelona, that's a big risk for them.  And he's one of the best players alive.  Every single signing is to a certain extent a gamble.  You don't know for sure how the player will be on the pitch, whether he will adapt off it as well, etc.  Each transfer is a risk. 

the point I was making was that with some players, that risk can be greatly mitigated.  Let's go back to the Markovic example.  We need a winger.  Okay.  We brought in Markovic.  Worst case scenario: he ends up being afraid of his own shadow like Downing, or he hates Merseyside, or something, and it doesn't work out.

But in terms of footballing ability, the risk is very, very low, because he has already shown that he has technique, pace, can get past a man consistently, can put in an incisive pass, etc.  He showed that he had that in his arsenal before we moved for him. 

And yet with a player like Borini, he NEVER SHOWED ANYTHING EVER TO SUGGEST HE COULD MAKE IT HERE.  He doesn't have pace; he doesn't have technique; his finishing really isn't that great; he can't play on the wing; etc etc.  It got so bad that everyone started complimenting him on his "movement."  I mean that is sort of Day 1 of Striker School, movement.  Really scraping the bottom of the barrel here.  Like complimenting a woman because she has two ears.

Your response was "some transfers just don't work."  But this is totally missing the point. 

If we assume that every transfer is a risk, why can't we simply stick to those transfers that have the lowest risk possible?  Markovic is a low risk, because he already has the tools to succeed.  Borini was a high risk, because he had none of the tools to succeed.

Hence why I asked why we brought him in in the first place, when we knew even before he put pen to paper that he didn't have the tools he needed in order to be a top class player.   

Do you really not see the difference between low risk signings (Markovic) and high risk signings (Borini)?

I'm asking a very simple question, not trying to wind you up, just trying to figure out why you don't think there is a difference between low risk and high risk signings, and why you just lump them all together.

Some of your scenarios and examples ate truly weird Fed and your posts give me a F***ing headache. Shut up man, nobody cares what you think. Your like water torture drip drip Diame F***ing drip. CBA with the forum anymore because you're on it every minute of the day posting silly bollocks to pass your life away. It doesn't wind me up per se its just the ignorrant tedious drivel you spout starts being debated as if what you say were even worth acknowledging and thus the forum is infected with your long winded sh*te.

Borini was signed after working with Rodgers at Swansea and impressing. As it turned out he's not cut it at Liverpool.

With that mystery solved cant you go and get some sun for a bit and let the adults discuss the football?

Mate you are a joke.. really. Just stop insulting people who happen to have different opinion than yours and stop embarrassing yourself. Being more on this forum makes you a person with a lot of spare time not some 'knowledgeable fan'.

I insult no one. I state fact as do many others on this forum, the poster in question tries to wind people up.
Why do you resort to personal comment?
In doing so you hope to give the impression that it is yourself who are in some way superior, the idea of which is an embarrassment in itself.
I make no claim about being more knowledgeable than anyone else on this forum that is your opinion, nothing else. 
Time spent on this forum is not relevant to anything, the high post count could be on account of being here since 2008 and having an ongoing health issue.
Which leaves me to question your agenda.

If he works hard in training and does not moan about being left out in many occasions, I would be happy to have him as another option. Why not?

He's a good option and can also play on the wings. I'm not saying that he is brilliant but he is decent enough to be with us and can be an option if there are some injuries.

A sensible post in this thread, imagine that.

Anyhoo, we signed Fabio when we were in the process of slashing the wage bill in the hopes that the lad would step up and shine, he hasn't. Brendan has given him chances but he hasn't taken them, either through a lack of skill or temperament, either way it's not working out for the lad.

Lest we forget that when Brendan had his first preseason he told jonjo that he was going to figure highly in his plans but it turned out that even though the lad had the heart & desire he was just slightly lacking the skill.

Times change, opinions change, now it's up to Fabio to change. If he doesn't then he knows where the door is.