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      Wages

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      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #138: Aug 06, 2012 03:34:58 pm
      No, minimum means just that the least possible, our expectations should always be higher,but I am a reasonable man and while I may want and expect a title challenge or even a title win, CL is a reasonable compromise for failure.

      Not me. WIN THE QUADRUPLE OR RODGERS OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
      s@int
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #139: Aug 06, 2012 03:38:09 pm
      Not me. WIN THE QUADRUPLE OR RODGERS OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

      Kneejerk response that mate






      WIN THE QUADRUPLE OR FSG OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

      Much more reasonable :)
      harrydunn08
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #140: Aug 06, 2012 03:58:20 pm
      Some very good posts on here from both Saint and Red Rob.  I personally find myself agreeing with Rob more so than Saint, but I guess only time will tell. 
      Red Rob 60
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #141: Aug 06, 2012 04:15:00 pm
      No, minimum means just that the least possible, our expectations should always be higher,but I am a reasonable man and while I may want and expect a title challenge or even a title win, CL is a reasonable compromise for failure.

      Well you made me laugh mate.

      So on a dreary Monday afternoon thanks for that!

      As for expectations I'll take every game as it comes and prepare on the basis of winning every one of them: no exceptions and nothing less. I suppose a lot of people might call that pessimism but then I'm old enough and wise enough to know better.

      I'll let the titles and unreasonable expectations look after themselves same as every season.

      Stick it in the back of the net and discuss the options afterwards.

      As for transfers we have to live within our means for the simple reason that unless someone can find the end of the rainbow our resources are finite even if our expectations are not.
      luckofirish8
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #142: Aug 06, 2012 04:16:58 pm
      Some very good posts on here from both Saint and Red Rob.  I personally find myself agreeing with Rob more so than Saint, but I guess only time will tell. 

      It seems civil too.  Strange that, but very nice to see.
      FL Red
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #143: Aug 06, 2012 04:19:44 pm
      Lets be honest the Americans are in it for the money. They are just keeping the club going long enough so they can sell it on for a profit.

      They could sell it right now for a profit. But cutting the club to the bone so that it's impossible to make the Champion's League will not help attract potential buyers.

      Hate to tell you all but "the Americans" are in it for the long haul.
      Red Rob 60
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #144: Aug 06, 2012 04:28:29 pm
      They could sell it right now for a profit. But cutting the club to the bone so that it's impossible to make the Champion's League will not help attract potential buyers.

      Hate to tell you all but "the Americans" are in it for the long haul.

      Very true.

      s@int
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #145: Aug 06, 2012 05:41:56 pm
      Well you made me laugh mate.

      So on a dreary Monday afternoon thanks for that!

      As for expectations I'll take every game as it comes and prepare on the basis of winning every one of them: no exceptions and nothing less. I suppose a lot of people might call that pessimism but then I'm old enough and wise enough to know better.

      I'll let the titles and unreasonable expectations look after themselves same as every season.

      Stick it in the back of the net and discuss the options afterwards.

      As for transfers we have to live within our means for the simple reason that unless someone can find the end of the rainbow our resources are finite even if our expectations are not.


      And I will continue to expect us to win titles and trophies,looking to build a team that's invincible,  while you talk about how unreasonable such expectations are.

      I will continue to expect success each and every season and expect our managers to be adequately supported in their quest to achieve that success, while you continue to accept the limitations set by businessmen who think success is a penny saved and who bought the club for a song and think that because they can be no worse than our last owners it is enough.

      We are Liverpool we expect the best, not "better than nothing" as Purslow once wrote of them. It's time our owners realised that mediocrity is not acceptable, not in their best interests or ours.
       
      As Shankly said "first is first, second is nothing", apparently our new owners believe money is first, success is nothing.
      « Last Edit: Aug 06, 2012 05:52:56 pm by s@int »
      zanwalk
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #146: Aug 06, 2012 07:07:19 pm
      I also have enjoyed reading Red Rob and S@ints posts, both have been interesting and reasonable points of view without descending into the objectionable insults that are thrown around on here quite often. Thank you both.

      apparently our new owners believe money is first, success is nothing.

      I would take slight issue with that statement though, as I believe the foundation for success is a well run club. There are plenty of examples of foolhardy spending resulting in massively underachieving or even administration for some clubs.

      I believe FSG are no fools, and I expect Brendan Rodgers to succeed, though it may take a season or two to bear fruit.
      FL Red
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #147: Aug 06, 2012 07:11:49 pm
      I believe FSG are no fools, and I expect Brendan Rodgers to succeed, though it may take a season or two to bear fruit.


      Optimism like that doesn't go too far around here...be careful. ;)
      s@int
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #148: Aug 06, 2012 07:37:02 pm
      I also have enjoyed reading Red Rob and S@ints posts, both have been interesting and reasonable points of view without descending into the objectionable insults that are thrown around on here quite often. Thank you both.

      I would take slight issue with that statement though, as I believe the foundation for success is a well run club. There are plenty of examples of foolhardy spending resulting in massively underachieving or even administration for some clubs.

      I believe FSG are no fools, and I expect Brendan Rodgers to succeed, though it may take a season or two to bear fruit.


      Thanks for the compliment mate.

      Wolves were a well run club,certainly one of the best in the prem, no debt, no interest payments.... now no premiership. I wonder if their fans wished for a little more spending and Premiership football. 

      My worry is that without adequate backing the top clubs may be out of sight by the time we get going in a few years time. Cl money, stadiums, bigger commercial deals, attracting the best players and keeping their best players.

      Anyway starting to repeat myself now so I will give it a break for a while.   
      FL Red
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #149: Aug 06, 2012 07:41:52 pm
      If FFP rules are going to be enforced in any way, shape or form then FSG are probably going about things in the right way. If FFP aren't going to be enforced and the rules will continue to be broken (in excess) by clubs like City, Scum and Chavs then we don't have the right owners. If FFP aren't going to mean anything then we really do need to find someone that sees us as a "toy" and is willing to throw gargantuan amounts of money around regardless of return on investment or financial solvency. I will concede as much...it's not our money anyway right...so why should we care if someone's willing to spend it freely to improve the club.
      corballyred
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #150: Aug 06, 2012 07:49:38 pm
      We are already long before this window complying with the financial fair play.

      This is simple cost cutting.

      Very sad to see feel sorry for Rodgers has the impossible job he can't succeed with these conditions

      FL Red
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #151: Aug 06, 2012 07:52:37 pm
      We are already long before this window complying with the financial fair play.

      This is simple cost cutting.

      Very sad to see feel sorry for Rodgers has the impossible job he can't succeed with these conditions



      He knew what the conditions were going to be when he took the job. Stop trying to throw a pity party for him so that you can rag ownership.

      Like someone getting hired by McDonalds and then lamenting the fact they have to clean out the deep fryer.

      Rodgers knew what the task was and he took the position knowing that. For that he deserves our full support and he doesn't deserve anyone making excuses for him.
      s@int
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #152: Aug 06, 2012 08:57:14 pm
      A Defining Season for the Fenway Sports Group at Liverpool FC

       By David Tully on August 6, 2012 (about 1 hour ago)

       To many followers of the game, this one included, it is doubtful whether Kenny Dalglish was ever really the man that Fenway Sports Group (FSG) wanted in the first instance given their penchant, and the sounds that came out of the club even before the departure of Hodgson, for appointing a younger coach. Theo Epstein, for instance, was just twenty-eight when FSG appointed him as General Manager for the Boston Red Sox. With this in mind, the appointment of Brendan Rodgers this past June was of little surprise given his ability to fit the profile that FSG appeared to set for hiring Dalglish’s successor. It is arguable now that approaching two years following their arrival, FSG now has a manager in place that they feel comfortable with.

      However, tremors are ever so slightly beginning to be felt from the Kop. Only slight, but strong enough to take a reading. The sacking of Dalglish was always going to upset many connected to the club given the emotional bond he holds with the supporters but the subsequent search for his successor angered more given the manner in which it appeared to be conducted.

      The office of the manager’s chair once graced by the likes of Bill Shankly, Bob Paisley, Joe Fagan and Dalglish himself seemed to be hawked around European managers as though some kind of transatlantic beauty parade only to be knocked back publicly by some of the incumbents themselves to the indignity of the Liverpool supporters. It is telling that Rodgers himself refused talks with the owners unless it became clear that he were not one of a dozen or so that were asked to take the stage to be judged via a score card. His eventual arrival was greeted with a sigh of relief that the apparent fiasco was finally over. However, the process did little to reassure onlookers that FSG are finally getting to grips with the game they knew little about at the outset.

      Perhaps of more concern to Liverpool supporters should be that in appointing Rodgers, FSG second guessed themselves by going against their instincts in deciding against appointing a Director of Football to replace the also sacked Damien Commoli. Commoli’s appointment in the first instance, appointed on the recommendation of Billy Beane, he of ‘Moneyball’ fame and the Oakland A’s baseball team’s general manager, surprised many and did little to dispel doubts regarding the steep footballing learning curve that FSG faced.

      Every media outlet reported during the search for Dalglish’s successor that his replacement would be more of a ‘Head Coach’ type without overall responsibility for player recruitment. That particular job would be divided between a technical board so that one man was not ultimately responsible. The idea is more at home on the continent than in England where managers traditionally have control of this aspect. However, it is widely believed that this is the route that FSG had decided to go down. Louis Van Gaal was reportedly on the verge of assuming the DOF position.

      Ultimately, it appears that in appointing Rodgers, whom was reported as refusing to be a part of this, they have decided to stick to the traditional British manager model in order to get the man the wanted. It has been met with some scratching of heads in that conducting a search for a man to fit into the model they were creating they then decided to tear this up again at the first signs of dissension. Whether they should have followed their instincts remains to be seen but they have aroused scepticisms of being indecisive in this regard.

      More pertinently for many, the new stadium, or the redevelopment of Anfield, is still no closer to being confirmed. Something few would have imagined back in October 2010. It can be appreciated that John Henry and co have obstacles to overcome before anything can be finalised but this is of scant consolation to supporters, not to mention the residents in the terribly run-down Anfield community, whom have waited for years for this project to get going. It is clear that FSG will not invest their own money for a new stadium. The estimated £300m cost of a 60,000 stadium will not make financial sense for an investment company to justify for what is essentially 15,000 extra seats on top of Anfield’s current capacity. Only with a naming rights partner could a new stadium become a reality and that search has not yet born fruit.

      FSG found themselves in a similar situation with Fenway Park once they had purchased the Boston Red Sox and ultimately decided to renovate and stay put at the historic old baseball stadium. This could be duplicated at Anfield if FSG are able to navigate through a mountain of red tape and moral choices concerning the fate of the neighbours in the homes immediately outside of Anfield, the expansion of which would see the purchase and demolition of some homes whose owners may not want to move, as well as the consideration to the ‘right to light’ law that an expansion may deprive others of.

      There are no easy decisions to make in regards to the stadium question but FSG should be seen as making progress in this regard rather than treading water. Hicks and Gillett came promising ‘a spade in the ground’ within sixty days but, like many others, this turned out to be a false promise. With this in mind, the new stadium, or the expansion of the current one, has turned into a symbol of trust for the owners. The supporters and local residents are sick and tired of being misled by 15 years of false dawns and of grand looking plans that cost millions to design and are then torn up and begun anew. FSG must become more transparent with up to date information unless they wish to arouse fresh suspicions upon their motives as owners.

      By the same token, it would help their cause greatly if they became more of a visible presence at Anfield. To many, the club lacked clear leadership off the field last season and the owners appeared to be missing in action as the club swung from one crisis to another. FSG could argue, perhaps justifiably, that the boots on the ground in L4 let them down last season but they did themselves few favours by appearing detached at crucial moments of the season. The decision to fly back to Boston to catch the opening games of the Baseball season rather than attend the Hillsborough memorial service won them few friends. If FSG wish to maintain the goodwill that has generally accompanied them thus far than they need to take heed of how such gestures are interpreted within a city like Liverpool.

      An owners interest in their club is generally judged by how active they have been in the transfer market but Liverpool have been strangely subdued this time around. FSG have invested large sums in previous transfer windows but the sums received from departing players has off-set that to a degree.

      Supporters disappointed by a risible eighth place finish last time around are understandably concerned by the lack of activity taking place. The names mentioned as possibly incoming, such as Clint Dempsey and Joe Allen, are good players in their own right but few could argue that they are of a good enough upgrade on the existing squad to bump an underachieving squad to fourth place and the Champions League. Patience, something lacking at Anfield since an arguably unjust guillotine landed on Benitez’s neck in 2010, will perhaps have to be found again lest the pressure on FSG and by definition Brendan Rodgers becomes heated.

      The talk of major players departures are disconcerting to some that view the club as on the precipice of slipping away into sleeping giant obscurity once and for all. The departure of an Agger or a Reina would not go down well at present. However, the longer the club stagnates on the pitch then the greater the risk of losing the key building blocks to any successful side. With this in mind, FSG must think big if it wants to convince supporters that they are ‘here to win’ as FSG’s Tom Werner had assured.

      Few have played the transfer market worse than Liverpool over the past four years but Football, to almost paraphrase Gordon Gecko, never sleeps. Investment has to be continual lest a club wishes to fall behind in the running. For Liverpool, falling even more behind the front runners could be terminal for the ambitions they profess to hold. For the Fenway Sports Group, both on and off the pitch, this is the season that they must deliver.
       
      zanwalk
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #153: Aug 06, 2012 09:27:47 pm
      Wolves were a well run club,certainly one of the best in the prem, no debt, no interest payments.... now no premiership. I wonder if their fans wished for a little more spending and Premiership football.

      To be fair though, Wolves fans hardly expect them to qualify for the CL! I take your point though, and getting the balance right between investment and prudent spending is a conundrum that occupies more than a few of the boardrooms of football clubs. And fans are rarely satisfied by the level of spending by their particular club, it's easier to spend someone else's money than your own.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #154: Aug 06, 2012 09:37:37 pm
      If we are trying to cut the wage bill then do it by getting rid of Cole! His wage is one of the highest at the club, he doesn't really offer us anything and that wage could be better spent elsewhere!

      Also helps if you don't keep paying a contribution to a players wage once you have sold that player....
      Scottbot
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #155: Aug 06, 2012 11:18:11 pm
      If we are trying to cut the wage bill then do it by getting rid of Cole! His wage is one of the highest at the club, he doesn't really offer us anything and that wage could be better spent elsewhere!

      Also helps if you don't keep paying a contribution to a players wage once you have sold that player....

      Do you not think the club have been trying to do that for the past 2 years? I suspect we're stuck with Cole until his contract runs down.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #156: Aug 07, 2012 12:23:44 am
      Do you not think the club have been trying to do that for the past 2 years? I suspect we're stuck with Cole until his contract runs down.

      Have heard anything about trying to move him on this summer? I haven't, it seems as though the club aren't looking to get rid.
      Scottbot
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #157: Aug 07, 2012 12:31:28 am
      Have heard anything about trying to move him on this summer? I haven't, it seems as though the club aren't looking to get rid.

      I think his wages are simply too prohibitive. 90k a week for a 30 year old lad who has lost a step isn't going to happen I don't think and it seems crazy to spend 50k a week loaning him out so fingers crossed he can stay fit and make a contribution this season.
      gareth g
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #158: Aug 07, 2012 12:34:22 am
      I think his wages are simply too prohibitive. 90k a week for a 30 year old lad who has lost a step isn't going to happen I don't think and it seems crazy to spend 50k a week loaning him out so fingers crossed he can stay fit and make a contribution this season.
      It's all down to the old OWL!
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #159: Aug 07, 2012 07:49:59 am
      How can anyone still think joe cole has anything to offer. All i hear Is If he can get fit. If he can start playing regular. Feckme why get rid of aquilani on 80 grand a week pay him off and keep someone whos done ten times less than aqua which is hard i know. Ten times worser player than aqua and on ten grand more a week. And still you hjave some smucks on here thinking he can do a job. Get a grip redblood you must be a closet cockney Plastic Geordie mate.

       ;D
      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: Wages
      Reply #160: Aug 07, 2012 02:14:57 pm
      Like someone getting hired by McDonalds and then lamenting the fact they have to clean out the deep fryer.

       :lmao:

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