Joe Allen & Lucas Leiva, will it work?

 For me one of the aspects of the performance which was not overly discussed in the aftermath was the contribution of Lucas. Yes Downing was awful and plenty pointed it out, yes Charlie Adam contributed absolutely nothing, but few seemed willing to look at Lucas. I might be going out on a limb a bit here, but I thought he was poor. His chronic lack of pace was exposed a couple of times, his distrubution wasn´t as good as it normally is and for a holding midfielder, he was much too porous.

 I found myself asking why this was the case (if indeed it was). It could be that he is rusty having just come back from a long termer, and I certainly think this is a factor. It could also be that Joe Allen is inadvertantly stepping on his football boot toes so to speak in that he does much of the same sort of work. Allen gets his foot in, keeps the play ticking over, pings a pass and generally keeps it tidy. FWIW I thought the Welshman was excellent on Saturday and our man of the match by a distance, it was only that we had such an awful end result that his performance was overlooked.

 Given though that neither Lucas nor Allen will either score goals or cause goals to be scored (unless Allen devlops, I think it is unlikely at this stage that Lucas will add this to his game) can we afford them both in central midfield? To answer my own question, I think we probably can as long as they endeavour to keep it much tighter than they did on Saturday. Having two holding midfielders and getting beat 3-0 is nothing to be proud of. Equally, it is clear to me that we cannot afford any passengers in the other 4 non-defensive players if we are to go with the Lucas/Allen axis. Clearly Downing is a dummy, but Borini and Gerrard will have to contribute more than they did on Saturday also.

 Licas though must do a lot better. Hopefully, he will. 

It was mainly coz gerrard had an awful game. At swansea last season, allen and britton got excellent movement  ahead of them by sigurdsson, and he flourished there. Once gerrard gets back his rhythm, things will improve.

I stuck this in the Joe Allen thread which agrees with much of what you say Mick :-

I don't think the partnership with Lucas worked that well to be honest, but it was their first game together, and I am sure they will soon build a better understanding.

Much better player than I gave him credit for and I am sure there is much more to come. Don't see him getting many assists this season, but he can and did play a couple of good forward passes as well as a reasonable chip/cross that Carroll couldn't quite get on to. Seems to have two good feet and the ability to make quick accurate passes that Adam might learn from.

Considering how poorly Gerrard played and that Lucas just wasn't match fit (imo) I thought Allen did very well. Maybe Lucas should sit a little deeper (like last season) as he didn't look as comfortable coming forward and I thought both Allen and Lucas were caught out forward a few times.   

Got to remember that he's still recovering from a serious injury, but yeah he was poor the other day, but there were only Allen and Johnson and who weren't poor.

Interesting point though.

I always hoped that Lucas would come back into the team the as good as he was when he left it, as there's no guarantee he will after an injury like that.

Good opening post mate, but I do disagree a bit.

1) Lucas is back from injury early so he doesn't have the legs yet and is probably still a bit tentative as to not re-injury his knee. The fact he's back already and starting is risky/remarkable. He's always said it's going to take him some time to get fully back into the game. Performances like Saturday are to be expected.

2) I would agree that neither Allen nor Lucas are goal scorers, but their presence should allow Gerrard to be played very high up the pitch, as well as enabling the full-backs to push up. We'd essentially have a front four with Gerrard up there and 2 full-backs playing more like wingers than traditional defenders. Obviously, things go to hell when Gerrard has a stinker and Kelly (in lieu of Johnson on the right) is playing a type of position he's not really comfortable with and doesn't have the skill set for (in my opinion).

3) Saying we lost 3-0 with two holding midfielders is a bit of a misnomer. The first goal came from a corner that was headed out of the box and was a sick finish by Gera. The second goal was a penalty. The third goal was from a corner. While 2 holding mids were out there, it wasn't like the Albion goals from penetrating runs or open play.

4) Borini should never be asked to play LW again. He doesn't have the attributes for it. Similarly, I'd rather see Suarez on the right, Borini in the middle, and someone else at LW because Downing isn't going to cut it.

5) I think the partnership will be ok. Once Allen started spreading play around, things started looking better. It will require Stevie to be sharp, however.

Hmm, he wasnt up to his best on saturday like thats for sure, did look a little off pace but hopefully this is mainly due to being out for the last of half of last season, hopefully in a few games we will be up to scratch. I think really Gerrard and Downing were shocking on saturday, they looked soo weak on the ball and unconfident, Gerrard misplaced many simple passes which sometimes cost us dearly. Allen was actually bossing the midfield for us, which was good considering his first game etc. It will take time for all this to gel so just got to keep faith, no doubt we all know what Lucas is capable of, and everyone has a bad day sometime or another.

Lucas will take time to get himself back to pre injury levels.
Without Sahin we have no cover for Lucas.

Don't worry about the Lucas Allen partnership.
Lucas is far from fit. The fact we are playing him straight from
the off shows me a massive weak point in our squad.

No goal scorer and no second quality DM.
Sahin would appear to be the only option.

I don't think it worked well for a first game either, but I think it totally can and probably will work out well. They're both intelligent footballers who are actually a bit different in how they play. Allen isn't exactly a defensive midfielder - although he surely is good on the defensive side of the game -, I see him more as a connecting link between defense and attack. He won't get himself inside the box very often but he'll participate in attacks from behind. The way I see it, I expect Lucas to stay deeper and cover for the fullbacks when they go forward, potentially forming a kind of formation with 3 at the back and offensive wing-backs, like Barcelona does with Busquets dropping deep to let Alves and Abidal go forward. I understand the question posed in this thread but I think it is trying to see too much from too little, it was just one game.

However... it is undeniable that we do not have enough goal threat in our side. I love Allen as a player but he won't score many, nor will Lucas. Gerrard has been poor for a long time now, perhaps due to injuries having such a disruptive effect on his game, but we can't count too much on him either. We desperately need not only a goalscorer upfront, but also more players capable of putting the ball on the net and take the burden off Suarez' shoulders, who at the moment is responsible for doing all the work for himself...

I think it's far too early to tell whether this 'partnership' will work. Allen had never played for us before Saturday so he needs a little while to get into the groove. Lucas is still rusty and is going to take weeks to get back into any sort of rhythm he had before his injury.

For me though, I can't justify us having two deep midfielders if the forward players aren't pulling their weight. I think you invite too much pressure just outside the oppo's centre circle which can strangle the likes of Downing, Borini, Suarez and Gerrard, if you have them (Lucas and Allen) both stuck in our half. We might get away with it in the cups but I doubt (at this present moment in time) that we'd get away with it in the league. One or both have to penetrate the oppositions half for me.

It's going to be really interesting to see how this pans out over the season.

I'd prefer the Adam-Lucas partnership rather than Allen-Lucas. I like Adam's hollywood passes indeed; he knows how to unlock defenses and can score more often. I'd like to see a trio of:
 Shelvey         Allen
            Lucas
where Allen and Shelvey would share there duties. But at the moment, I personnally prefer

        Gerrard
Adam             Lucas

It seems more threatening to me

Hopefully it develops more into an Alonso/Mascherano partnership than Mascherano/Lucas.

I'd imagine it should do as Allen is better on the ball than Mascherano (not as good as Xabi obviously), whether it develops into the same level of quality will only be answered with time.

I thought Lucas was awful on Saturday and I didn't think Allen was spectacular either. But we're gonna have to give it time to see if it can develop. Less than 90 minutes of playing together isn't anywhere near enough time to see if it'll work.

Have a better idea come Christmas time - injuries permitting of course.

I think it's far too early to tell whether this 'partnership' will work. Allen had never played for us before Saturday so he needs a little while to get into the groove. Lucas is still rusty and is going to take weeks to get back into any sort of rhythm he had before his injury.

For me though, I can't justify us having two deep midfielders if the forward players aren't pulling their weight. I think you invite too much pressure just outside the oppo's centre circle which can strangle the likes of Downing, Borini, Suarez and Gerrard, if you have them (Lucas and Allen) both stuck in our half. We might get away with it in the cups but I doubt (at this present moment in time) that we'd get away with it in the league. One or both have to penetrate the oppositions half for me.

It's going to be really interesting to see how this pans out over the season.

I agree mate, the last thing we need is a repetition of the Lucas/ Mascherano partnership in Rafa's last season in which we sat so deep that the forwards became isolated.

Its only their first game together - it was Lucas's first prem game since Nov 2011 after a serious injury and it was Allens first game for us. I think this is very premature - both are very good players who will work together. Just as its far too early to judge the manager its far too early to judge Lucas and Allen as a partnership.

Pretty crazy to be questioning the partnership at this point. Lucas hasn't played in the league since November and it was Allen's first game.

Wait a few months then we can discuss this.

Personally think they will compliment each other massively and it will be a relief for Lucas to have someone beside him who he doesn't carry in work-load terms or ability terms. Honestly think Allen will prove a huge signing for us but we need an attacking midfielder who can carry the creativity part more than how Gerrard is performing. These 2 I can personally rely upon.

In my humble opinion, yes it will work, but, Lucas needs a few more games to get back to his previous level and of course Allen is new to his team mates. This makes the first few games very difficult for us and I think away from home they will need an extra body in there for now, which means tweeking the formation a little, i.e. 4-4-2

                   Shelvey    Lucas  Gerrard   Allen
                   
                            Suarez     ?

Seeing as though we are not getting behind defences on the wing it doesn't matter that there is no recognised winger, as Shelvey and Gerrard as well as breaking forward can whip crosses in without beating the full back. We will get stronger as the season progresses and I have faith that the gaffer will sort it out. maybe 3 at the back for home games. The captain will be the first to admit that he let his team mates down a bit in the middle of the park and he can only play better.

4-4-2 with 4 CM's ?

I think really Gerrard and Downing were shocking on saturday, they looked soo weak on the ball and unconfident, Gerrard misplaced many simple passes which sometimes cost us dearly

I think this is the reason Allen and Lucas werent up to much, Gerrard was fcking awful.

It's early doors yet so I'm a bit reticent to say this but both players are very comfortable with the short, tippy-tappy, five yard, not really going anywhere, passing game; Stevie appears less enamoured. It seems (in my opinion) to go against all his instincts.  I honestly believe he feels somewhat stifled but he's a class act and I'm sure he'll adapt quick enough.

What I'm not so sure about is if tippy-tappy will be utilising his best traits even if he adapts? 

I guess if "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts." it won't really matter.

Allen is more suited to our new possession style than Lucas, Allen just has excellent playmaking skills. But I'm not concerned about Lucas at all, he just needs a bunch of games. Personally I'm more concerned about Gerrard.

yes Charlie Adam contributed absolutely nothing

Loved this bit!

I found myself asking why this was the case (if indeed it was). It could be that he is rusty having just come back from a long termer, and I certainly think this is a factor. It could also be that Joe Allen is inadvertantly stepping on his football boot toes so to speak in that he does much of the same sort of work.

I'd put it down to rust and fitness mate. It was a serious injury and he is apparently a month or so ahread of where he should have been so I tihnk it'll be another 5-6 games before we can expect Lucas to be back to his previous best. He looks a little flat footed and a bit slow to change direction at the moment but such is his importance that the manager will play him back to fitness. As for Allen stepping on his toes, I don't think so. Allen was further forward (which is good because you don't want your CMs playing flat) much of the time and (as you say) had an excellent debut.

and for those posters questioning the depth of our CMs it's important to keep an eye on how high our FBs are playing. Having missed the game at the weekend I watched most of it today and really it was so I could see how Allen got on and also to get a good look at the shape of the team and the FBs were playing much the same way as your wing-backs would in a 3-5-2.

It's early doors yet so I'm a bit reticent to say this but both players are very comfortable with the short, tippy-tappy, five yard, not really going anywhere, passing game; Stevie appears less enamoured. It seems (in my opinion) to go against all his instincts.  I honestly believe he feels somewhat stifled but he's a class act and I'm sure he'll adapt quick enough.

What I'm not so sure about is if tippy-tappy will be utilising his best traits even if he adapts? 

I guess if "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts." it won't really matter.

Lucas is a far far better footballer than he is given credit for he reads the game well.
Stevie has always been a problem he has played ,fullback.central midfield,right wing,second striker its a wonder he hasnt had a spell in goal.
Given the difficulties we have with width I would play him out wide,didnt he have his best goal scoring season out wide?.
Lucas is still rusty and it was Allen's first game so they will improve massively over the season.

I think it's a daft question to ask after Allen signing then going straight off to play for Wales, plus Lucas coming back from a long term injury.
They had what, a couple of days training together?

It'll work once they stop running into each others spaces. On numerous occasions they were both looking round to find their midfield partner.

It's all just a matter of them training together for a while.

I also didn't think Lucas played too badly all things considered, although Allen was better.

Lucas is a far far better footballer than he is given credit for he reads the game well.
Stevie has always been a problem he has played ,fullback.central midfield,right wing,second striker its a wonder he hasnt had a spell in goal.
Given the difficulties we have with width I would play him out wide,didnt he have his best goal scoring season out wide?.
Lucas is still rusty and it was Allen's first game so they will improve massively over the season.

Agree walton that Lucas is a much smarter footballer than many give him credit for.

As for Stevie playing on the right, it's suggested a lot, but I'm not sure he could ever replicate that season he had there. Age and a few injuries might mean he simply can't play out there anymore on a regular basis. Could do it the odd game here and there though.

4-4-2 with 4 CM's ?

I presume he meant the 4 in a diamond mate.

                         Lucas

                Shelvey      Allen

                      Gerrard
           

Maybe not!

Was wondering myself how this would pan out, and it is very early to be making definitive conclusions.

However, I do agree with the worries about a potential Masch/Lucas repeat, and a lack of goals.

Obviously, our attacking players should be scoring the brunt of the goals, but it's probable most of our defenders will score more goals than Lucas, and we could certainly do with everyone chipping in with a few.

We did the whole "gelling/bonding" debate to death last season, but with a new system and quite a few changes with players arriving and leaving, we will certainly not see the best of the team for a good while yet.

I'm sure Brendan has full confidence in his plans and will stick to his guns with regards to team selection and tactics, though I reserve the right to worry slightly about where the cutting edge and penetration in the final third will come from.

Gerrard wasn't even close to his best on Saturday, nor was Lucas. Lucas hasn't looked the same but that's to be expected with that injury coupled with rust. Give it time.

I think our midfield was poor in general, with the exception of Allen who, for me, was our best player. Think we have to remember that Lucas is just coming back from a potential career-ending injury. He was poor but poor by his usual high standards. Judge him in a few weeks.

Gerrard, for me, was bloody awful. Stevie had a good Euro's but for me he will never be able to produce half of which he has in the past. I love him and would keep him in the team. However, I read a headline the other day (admittingly I didn't read the article and may have mis-understood it) but it read something like 'Gerrard: I won't change'. For me, he needs to change and adapt to his age and his own ability. I am sure he has been told this already.

Overall, Lucas and Allen on paper sounds great. However, will take a lot of hard work on the training ground before there is a true understanding in place.

No reason why it wont. Obviously will take time for them to gel together. Nobody can say yes or no after 1 game together and probably 6 training sessions maybe even less.

By the way very harsh assesment on Lucas performance Saturday. The fact hes even back in the first 11 speaks volumes about him. To have a go at his performance I feel his out of order. It will take him time to get back to the level he was at pre injury

I'm sure it will work , only game experience will tell..
You've gotta look at the opposing midfielders they will be facing and ask yourself whether they have the mind set to displace them in the game.That Mulumbu and Yakov I think his name is did press them both in the first half and Allen sat very deep which was okay until early in the second half when they pushed them harder and Lucas , for me , ran tired and consequently got a yellow for pulling yer man back as he ran through...next up will be De Jong and Toure...very quick paced players who can damage you big time along with that Silva , so both Allen and Lucas need to gel and get the telepathy going as well as the muscle'ing in on the tackles , hassle em off the ball...as does Stevie
I'm positive the combo can gel together and with a new edition in the mix sooner rather than later Rodgers can settle down and work with them all.

I don't think Allen & Lucas will score many, but then again if they don't, it doesn't mean they're a repeat of the Masch & Lucas partnership - let's not forget that, despite how great Masch and Alonso were together, both of them rarely offered many goals. Allen is a player who will contribute offensively, I'm pretty sure about that, I just don't think he'll be a consistent goalscorer either.

Anyway, last season Allen scored 4... that's more than any of our midfielders (Gerrard excluded) scored last season, so it would still be an improvement on that aspect.

I don't think Allen & Lucas will score many, but then again if they don't, it doesn't mean they're a repeat of the Masch & Lucas partnership - let's not forget that, despite how great Masch and Alonso were together, both of them rarely offered many goals. Allen is a player who will contribute offensively, I'm pretty sure about that, I just don't think he'll be a consistent goalscorer either.

Anyway, last season Allen scored 4... that's more than any of our midfielders (Gerrard excluded) scored last season, so it would still be an improvement on that aspect.

I'm not worried about them. I'm seriously worried about Gerrard, though. Hope it's just a bad feeling of mine.

Doubt they had any time together before the match, maybe 2 or 3 sessions? IIRC Joe went to play for Wales midweek.

Lucas is just back from a hefty lay off. So none of us can be to critical of the lad can we. In the pair of them granted Lucas has experience they don't as a unit at the moment. I am hoping that we all gel again and fast cos loses now early on will cost us. We should be firing now as we have game's ahead. Frustration is not a word I want to hear to many times this season

Of course it will work, no reason why it won't, Lucas is world class imo, he will take a month or so for him to get back to his best, meanwhile Joe will bed in nicely and will just get better and better, his stats V Baggies are very good and that was his debut, once he has had a few training sessions under Brendan and with the other lads i think he alongside Lucas will be first on the team sheet, week in week out,barring injuries of course.

               IBWT     YNWA

However, I do agree with the worries about a potential Masch/Lucas repeat, and a lack of goals.

That won't be anything new though mate.

We haven't had a goalscorer from the middle of the park since Gerrard was an out an out central midfielder.

Alonso, Lucas, Mascherano, Hamann, Sissoko, Meireles, Aquilani Spearing, Adam, Shelvey, Henderson (I've purposely left that Danish fella out who Hodgson bought, but have I missed anyone else out?) - none of them score(d) anywhere near enough for what a Liverpool central midfielder should do.

Alonso averaged a goal every 11 games.
Mascherano averaged a goal every 70 games.
Hamann averaged a goal every 25 games.
Sissoko averaged a goal every 87 games.
Merieles averaged a goal every 9 games.
Aquilani averaged a goal every 14 games.

Current players;

Lucas averages a goal every 31 games.
Henderson averages a goal every 25 games.
Shelvey averages a goal every 19 games.
Adam averages a goal every 18 games.
Spearing doesn't average a goal at all because he's yet to score.

They're some really shocking stats, Meireles is acceptable and Alonso's is the only other one I think that is ok. Given we play at least 40 games a season, I don't think it's hard for a midfielder to score 4 goals - one in every ten. Yet we haven't had that from anyone in the middle of the park bar Gerrard for getting close to a decade.

That won't be anything new though mate.

We haven't had a goalscorer from the middle of the park since Gerrard was an out an out central midfielder.

Alonso, Lucas, Mascherano, Hamann, Sissoko, Spearing, Adam, Shelvey, Henderson (I've purposely left that Danish fella out who Hodgson bought, but have I missed anyone else out?) - none of them score(d) anywhere near enough for what a Liverpool central midfielder should do.

Alonso averaged a goal every 11 games.
Mascherano averaged a goal every 70 games.
Hamann averaged a goal every 25 games.
Sissoko averaged a goal every 87 games.

Current players;

Lucas averages a goal every 31 games.
Henderson averages a goal every 25 games.
Shelvey averages a goal every 19 games.
Adam averages a goal every 18 games.
Spearing doesn't average a goal at all because he's yet to score.

They're some really shocking stats, Alonso's is the only one I think that is ok. Given we play at least 40 games a season, I don't think it's hard for a midfielder to score 4 goals - one in every ten. Yet we haven't had that from anyone in the middle of the park bar Gerrard for getting close to a decade.

Wonder how that compares with other teams?
Last season was a disaster for goals from midfield and its a contining problem but lets give tjis new set up time.
I;m more concerned with our forward line scoring abilities.

Wonder how that compares with other teams?
Last season was a disaster for goals from midfield and its a contining problem but lets give tjis new set up time.
I;m more concerned with our forward line scoring abilities.

Not sure how it compares with other teams mate, possibly on a level for all I know. I just think our midfielders need to chip in with more.

I am willing to give this system time but the early signs are that our central midfielders still won't be scoring. Which adds more pressure on the forwards to score and unfortunately we don't have a natural finisher in our ranks. Well we do and he scored on pre-season but god forbid we put a young Scouse lad named Adam Morgan in the side and see if he can handle the Premiership.

Be nice to at least have the threat coming from midfield, I would think it changes the complexion of a match when there is at least a threat, ala a Nasari.

 Which adds more pressure on the forwards to score and unfortunately we don't have a natural finisher in our ranks. Well we do and he scored on pre-season but god forbid we put a young Scouse lad named Adam Morgan in the side and see if he can handle the Premiership.

If we are not going to give these lads a chance what is the point of the academy. If we could get a couple of young lads in playing without fear who knows what might happen.
Lucas has always played a bit handcuffed IMHO and I would like to see him getting forward more.

I think Lucas and Allen will sort things out in the middle given a few games. I'm sure Lucas will return to his best again. I think when they sort out the automatic reaction needed, to where the other is situated in a game, things will improve. You need to get to know each others game a bit before you can opperate together. Two quality players with different strengths. What we don't need is for both of them getting too far forward, and when they settle, one will automatically hold if the other pushes on or drifts wide. Just take a while to sort out, but thought that was what pre season was for. Dragged the Allen transferr on too long.

Not sure how it compares with other teams mate, possibly on a level for all I know. I just think our midfielders need to chip in with more.

I am willing to give this system time but the early signs are that our central midfielders still won't be scoring. Which adds more pressure on the forwards to score and unfortunately we don't have a natural finisher in our ranks. Well we do and he scored on pre-season but god forbid we put a young Scouse lad named Adam Morgan in the side and see if he can handle the Premiership.

That's been one of the most frustrating things about our play in recent times, the lack of bodies in the box, especially when we've only one up top.  We need more players to show up in the final third.  We saw glimpses of that on Saturday, but nowhere near enough.  In the first half of Saturdays game, both Lucas and Allen got into the box a few times.  Didn't manage to score but I'm hopeful that will change as the players get used to the new system.

To the OP, Mick, imo have to say it was Stevie who was our most ineffective midfielder on the day.  He was really poor for him, taking into account his recent excellent performances for England.  True, Lucas was no where near his best, but he is still coming back from a very serious injury so we shouldn't expect miracles just yet.  I thought Allen was one of our better players on the day and I look forward to seeing the pair of them contain the EPL's attacking threats whilst at least setting up our own in the games to come and hopefully putting away a few for themselves.

People have short memories, Lucas, before his injury, managed to create / start some of our better attacks last season, which was something new he had brought to his game.  I for one am hoping we get to see that side of him again.  Give the lad a bit of time FFS, it's impressive he's even playing right now.

Like any partnership, it will take time to gel, the players will have to get to know each other. Once Lucas knows where Allen likes to operate in and vice versa, we will see better performances. I think it's Lucas that will have to do more adapting tho, as he really only plays one dimensionally, brilliantly too I may add. Whereas Allen, well looks like he, can play as a deep lying midfielder or as the box-to-box midfielder.

Once Lucas knows that Allen likes to come deep to get the ball and allow him the space to do this and that he is not the only one that has to do this anymore, it will work out better for us. And likewise Allen will have to learn that Lucas enjoys that part of the game and allow his to take that ball from the centre halves.

Maybe to get the best result from this partnership it may take Allen removing that part of his game, the coming deep, and concentrate on playing in the centre circle and higher and only playing the attacking creative passes and trusting Lucas to get the ball and give it to him. Of course it also depends on having an 3rd attacking midfielder actually making the runs that Allen can pass to, something that was lacking on Saturday.

I fully believe that for this to work properly we need for Allen to be comfortable taking passes higher up the pitch. He isn't an alonso who can turn defence into attack with ease and Lucas isn't a Mascherano who can snuff out any attacker. Lucas does really well getting the ball deep and keeping possession. Allen doesn't need to drop deep and hit square passes. Allen needs to learn to ply his craft in the thick on the midfield and in the oppositions half. It's ok if he drops a bit to get the ball but he must travel with it into the protected territory. This give guys like Suarez the kind of opportunity they crave. To be honest I would rather see Stevie drop and play like Alonso did and have Allen behind a front 3.

Like any partnership, it will take time to gel, the players will have to get to know each other. Once Lucas knows where Allen likes to operate in and vice versa, we will see better performances. I think it's Lucas that will have to do more adapting tho, as he really only plays one dimensionally, brilliantly too I may add. Whereas Allen, well looks like he, can play as a deep lying midfielder or as the box-to-box midfielder.

Once Lucas knows that Allen likes to come deep to get the ball and allow him the space to do this and that he is not the only one that has to do this anymore, it will work out better for us. And likewise Allen will have to learn that Lucas enjoys that part of the game and allow his to take that ball from the centre halves.

Maybe to get the best result from this partnership it may take Allen removing that part of his game, the coming deep, and concentrate on playing in the centre circle and higher and only playing the attacking creative passes and trusting Lucas to get the ball and give it to him. Of course it also depends on having an 3rd attacking midfielder actually making the runs that Allen can pass to, something that was lacking on Saturday.

Sorry to just pick out the bit in bold, but it is the part I disagree with most.

Watch how Lucas plays for Brazil, he's anything but one dimensional.
The difference is that Lucas always plays the way he's asked to, sticks to the game plan and rarely diverts from it.
That's not one dimensional, that's playing for the team, something quite a few other players could learn from him.

If Allen only scored 4 goals this season and Lucas 2 I wouldnt care a long as they were doing the job they are there to do and our strikers do what they are supposed to do.

I really think they will be a vital cog for us this year, once they learn each others games and gel. Patience and time required