Bit of a pity

Watching today's and watching a young Sterling dominate, a 15m player in Allen and the increasingly present Jonjo playing I looked sadly at the bench.

Perhaps not worth of a thread itself but:

Adam         7m = Not even on the bench = Does not fit in this style
Dowining   20m= Bench (did not play)     = I'd rather have Joe Cole @ 90k because at least Joe looks like he gives sh*te
Hendo       16m = Bench (did not play)     = Getting shown up by Jonjo and getting further pushed down with the addition of Sahin
Carroll       35m = Bench (15 minutes)      = I like Andy a lot but 35m for 15 minutes of play every other match.

78,000,000 on 15 minutes worth of playing time = unbelievable

To bad PL clubs don't get a transfer mulligan once a decade because we sure as hell would use it now.   

I'd be interested to see if Henderson might get a chance to partner Allen in the middle. He's more of a mid anyway. And with slightly more attacking instincts, might complement Allen better than Lucas. Who knows. Still very early days.

I would like to think the first 3 and cole would be sold by Friday,Cant see it happening but i think Downing and Adam are a waste of money,Would give Hendo and Carroll another Season With the cup games and stuff I think today we seen our mangers team,And to be honest with Sahin to come in I don't see hendo getting back into the team unless we have a few injury's.

I personally would like to see andy get a  chance but all the people saying he will go on the last day of the window,If so i hope for at least 20 mill and we get a better replacement then Dempsey.
78,000,000 on 15 minutes worth of playing time = unbelievable  That makes for some scary reading.

AZ, you saying in a subtle way Kenny got it wrong with the signings he made? Because the lads named got us to wembley 3 times winning 1 final and runners up in the 2nd, not bad after 6 year drought.

Yes they may not fit into Rodgers style of play but we are in Europe too where they pay prove to be worth holding on to.

AZ, you saying in a subtle way Kenny got it wrong with the signings he made? Because the lads named got us to wembley 3 times winning 1 final and runners up in the 2nd, not bad after 6 year drought.

Yes they may not fit into Rodgers style of play but we are in Europe too where they pay prove to be worth holding on to.

I don't think he's having a go at Kenny. But I think one would hardly doubt that the money was horribly spent. Allen was cheaper than Downing. That pretty much sums it.

Personally, I do think Kenny that if Kenny had any part in those signings, he got it wrong. I can only dream of the team that Rodgers would be building right now had he the kind of money we threw las year.

On the other hand, Kenny reunited us through hard times and lifted the team's spirit like no one else could have. I don't put any part of that in question. But that doesn't change the fact that the signings ere not good.

AZ, you saying in a subtle way Kenny got it wrong with the signings he made? Because the lads named got us to wembley 3 times winning 1 final and runners up in the 2nd, not bad after 6 year drought.

Yes they may not fit into Rodgers style of play but we are in Europe too where they pay prove to be worth holding on to.

Not having a go a Kenny, or even the players for that matter (with the exception of Downing) but if that 78m was sold today it would value out at around 30,000,000. All of the players are decent but we so over payed its not funny.

Once again its a sad waste when playing against the league champs on our first home match that all that money (just a year old mind you) contributed 15 minutes to the match.

AZ, you saying in a subtle way Kenny got it wrong with the signings he made?

I'm confused, is that some sort of controversial opinion?

I think Kenny got it wrong with the signings.  So what?  you don't have to be subtle about it, it's just an opinion.

Those players are decent squad options for a side challenging for the Top 4, the fee's we paid however, were scandalous.

Those players are decent squad options for a side challenging for the Top 4, the fee's we paid however, were scandalous.

Ah.... Nail head... The point ive made all along.

Kenny did get them wrong. No use denying it. Waste of massive money the lot of em. Then again had we had CL footie then we could have attracted bigger names.

Kenny did get them wrong. No use denying it. Waste of massive money the lot of em. Then again had we had CL footie then we could have attracted bigger names.

Yes but when you have a DOF it dilutes the blame and praise... no?

Ok Kenny could turn round to Dc and say, i really like Downing, the Comolli goes away and speaks to his counterpart at Villa who quotes him 20m, if he cant get that down its his responsibility to go to Kenny and say its a no go there is better value out there?

I hate the blame game that goes on now..

Yes but when you have a DOF it dilutes the blame and praise... no?

Ok Kenny could turn round to Dc and say, i really like Downing, the Comolli goes away and speaks to his counterpart at Villa who quotes him 20m, if he cant get that down its his responsibility to go to Kenny and say its a no go there is better value out there?

I hate the blame game that goes on now..

They were mistakes, both the player and the fee, but why should we dwell on it now? Damien Comolli and Kenny are gone now. We've got Brendan Rodgers now and we must look forward and not dwell on matters from the past.

They were mistakes, both the player and the fee, but why should we dwell on it now? Damien Comolli and Kenny are gone now. We've got Brendan Rodgers now and we must look forward and not dwell on matters from the past.

Im not dwelling, im discussing, dont jump on me for passing comment... If you read my posts you know ive moved on, but that doesnt mean i wont comment.

And price yes... But player? who knows? Id still bet Henderson will have a future..

Good thread. Was thinking the same. It's a shame we payed so much for them and now we couldn't even get half of that 78m.
I don't blame Kenny, I blame that b*****d Comolli who looks like a f***** con artist.

Wouldn't be surprised if in few years time he goes to court charged of taking bribe for inflating players prices or something like that...

I like to see hendo go out on loan just a thought because i cant see him playing much.

Whoever sanctioned those transfers let the club down, We were all disappointed with the dealings last year even before they'd played. But, it's important we continue to support them anyway if that's who we're stuck with for the season. Brendan seems to have a much better eye for players already though.

We'll never know what the real proportion of transfer decision-making should be split between Kenny & Damien for those players. It's not going to do us any good to keep dwelling on it. Both men tried their best for the club. And obviously we owe Kenny so much for everything he's done since he arrived decades ago.

It's probably best now to ignore what those players cost then and concentrate instead on their current value. Look at Carroll as a 12-15M striker, and so on with the others. If we can sell them and recoup some of what we paid, great. If not, let's cheer them on as they are still part of the LFC family, as long as they are giving their best effort.

I may get frustrated with players sometimes, but I'll never boo them unless they aren't working hard and trying their best. All we can ask is for them to give 100% effort.     

Rodgers has been managing for about 20 consecutive years. He has honed his style and is now going to bring that style to Liverpool. Allen and Borini are going to adapt to this very quickly because they have worked with Rodgers and know what he wants.

When Kenny got his players he had been out of the game, was still working on a game plan and the players bought in did not have the benefit of working with him nor were they familiar with any particular method he wanted to implement.

All this says is that the owners were probably remiss to sanction the spending we spunked on that lot but I don't think Henderson or Carroll are not going to figure. I think they both can become big pluses to this team. Adam maybe on the bench and in some games dependent on scale and injury.

Downing on the other hand is only going to go down as a really..... really....bad piece of business.

Kenny did get them wrong. No use denying it. Waste of massive money the lot of em. Then again had we had CL footie then we could have attracted bigger names.

Indeed but why dwell on it?

Why even bring it up in the opening post in fact? Don't answer; I know full well why it was brought up and why it was underpinned by other posters.

But you 'money men' can rest easy; you won't be discussing big money flops for a long time. Is that a good thing? I don't know; I assume it is but as a football fan I'm more concerned about how a player performs than his cost.

None of the players, mentioned, performed... but like someone said earlier on: why dwell on it? 

Indeed but why dwell on it?

Why even bring it up in the opening post in fact? Don't answer; I know full well why it was brought up and why it was underpinned by other posters.

But you 'money men' can rest easy; you won't be discussing big money flops for a long time. Is that a good thing? I don't know; I assume it is but as a football fan I'm more concerned about how a player performs than his cost.

None of the players, mentioned, performed... but like someone said earlier on: why dwell on it? 

Those players are the reason why BR has little money to spend. Kenny's bad decision making has damaged the club significantly.

Those players are the reason why BR has little money to spend. Kenny's bad decision making has damaged the club significantly.

Wrong on many levels but I'm not getting dragged into it again..

And we need reminded because?

Because we need to play a blame game and reminded that the owners are brilliant obviously.

Wrong on many levels but I'm not getting dragged into it again..

Oh you'll be singing different tune if that signings were made by hodgson.

I'm sure of that.

Kenny's bad decision making has damaged the club significantly.

Never thought I would hear or read a Red write the above about Kenny.

The club was damaged prior to Kennys arrival because of the money men,Kenny was used by the money men to bring credibility back to the money men the very same men who are not interested in Trophies but $$$$$$$$/££££££££ sacked him for non footballing reasons because the CEO  even said so.

Now that Lucas limped off don't you think Adam,Henderson have a role to play? Or times when Tiki Taka won't work so we may have to be more direct in our play where Carroll may be deployed?.

FFS.

Who's to say we have very little money to spend and that its all Kenny's and holy Comolli's fault ?

I find these threads a tad premature whilst the transfer window is still open.

Rodgers was only saying yesterday he's hoping to bring a couple of more signings in.

If he does that without us losing any players we could end up with a net spend of around £50m.

That's could only be seen as fair investment considering Kenny's net spend was around £35m.

So don't be burning your Kenny and Comolli effergies in the streets just yet.

If we retain Adam, Carroll, Henderson, Downing and they rack up 50 appearances between them in the cups and the odd league game and that gives Rodgers first team a rest every now and then and helps them to go on and claim a champions league place, I don't think any one will be questioning their values.

End of the day football's a squad game and all the teams challenging have strength in depth and if you look at our squad over all barring another striker and a winger so have we.

Anyone want to run a price comparison on the two benches from yesterday.
Go compare!

I thought this was going to be a thread about how we outplayed City
and deserved to win. Maybe ending with a positive outlook for the season
in the knowledge of better to come.

More the fool me.

I've just tried www.comparethebenchs.com but got nothing.

Oh you'll be singing different tune if that signings were made by hodgson.

I'm sure of that.

As I said I'm not getting into it... You're welcome to your view though.

I've just tried www.comparethebenchs.com but got nothing.

Is that not a clothing comparison site?

Who's to say we have very little money to spend and that its all Kenny's and holy Comolli's fault ?

I find these threads a tad premature whilst the transfer window is still open.

Rodgers was only saying yesterday he's hoping to bring a couple of more signings in.

If he does that without us losing any players we could end up with a net spend of around £50m.

That's could only be seen as fair investment considering Kenny's net spend was around £35m.

So don't be burning your Kenny and Comolli effergies in the streets just yet.

If we retain Adam, Carroll, Henderson, Downing and they rack up 50 appearances between them in the cups and the odd league game and that gives Rodgers first team a rest every now and then and helps them to go on and claim a champions league place, I don't think any one will be questioning their values.

End of the day football's a squad game and all the teams challenging have strength in depth and if you look at our squad over all barring another striker and a winger so have we.

It don't matter where downing, Carroll or Adam play they never going to be good enough for Liverpool. So what was the need to sell Maxi, Kuyt ,Aquilani,Bellamy. If it was only to fill up numbers on the pitch? They are better players than Adam, Downing Carroll.

Just try to look at my perspective. Kenny wanted english players in the squad.

Manchester City provided three players to the England squad, runners-up Manchester United four, and third placed Arsenal three.Teams finishing from from third to seventh, provided a total of six between them.What does this say of the standard of English players, if the champions of our league provided only three players to our national team and the biggest contributors providing six finished eighth?

Simply put, English players, or going further British players, are now longer good enough to be part of teams that finish in the upper levels of the league.Foreign players now dominate our title and cup winning teams.

Back when Kenny Dalglish took over as Liverpool manager for the first time, his major signings were the likes of John Barnes, Peter Beardsley, Ray Houghton, Steven McMahon, John Aldridge to name a few.

These players went on to be part a team that, without doubt, played the best football England has ever seen. They dominated English football and, if not for the ban on English teams in Europe, would surely have done the same on the Continent.However, times have changed and football is no different. No longer are British players good enough to win titles and cups and therefore a team predominately British is not going to challenge for domestic or European honours.

Dalglish's recent buys were British and his error was thinking that buying the best that of British is still good enough; it is not any longer.

Never thought I would hear or read a Red write the above about Kenny.

The club was damaged prior to Kennys arrival because of the money men,Kenny was used by the money men to bring credibility back to the money men the very same men who are not interested in Trophies but $$$$$$$$/££££££££ sacked him for non footballing reasons because the CEO  even said so.

Now that Lucas limped off don't you think Adam,Henderson have a role to play? Or times when Tiki Taka won't work so we may have to be more direct in our play where Carroll may be deployed?.

FFS.

Oh I understood. The Money men signed those player Not Kenny/Comolli. Ah Right.

Manchester City

Pantilimon - 3M
Lescott - 22M
Savic - 6M
Silva - 25M
Rodwell - 15M
Razak - Youth
Dzeko - 27M

Not on the bench:

Aguero - 38M
Clichy - 7M


Manchester United

Lindegaard - 3.5M
Evans - Youth
Rooney - 27M
Giggs - Youth
Henandez - 6M
Welbeck - Youth
Scholes - Free

Not on the bench:

Jones - 17M
Smalling - 10M
Berbatov - 30.75M


My point?
Lets not get caught up in the pricetags sitting on the bench.
Our squad is thin on numbers as it is.

If we want to look at something to take from the bench maybe
it should be that at the end of this transfer window it looks like
we have recruited players that will restrict the likes of
Carroll, Downing, Adam, Henderson to squad players.

I know it's something I wanted to see and thought Kenny would
rectify this summer. Kenny is gone and Brendan has come in and
stamped his mark on the team pretty early.

No player pricetag or reputation now guarantees a starting place.
Sterling and Coates starting in the youngest Liverpool PL team
since 2003.

Bossing the current champions and deserving to win, all the while
our players are adapting to a new system.

That's what I'd take from all this and the only real pity is that more
posters ignore the bigger picture while remaining entrenched in
a now defunct argument.

No longer are British players good enough to win titles and cups and therefore a team predominately British is not going to challenge for domestic or European honours.

I remember a certain pundit saying you couldn't win anything with kids.

That United team that was predominately British went on to dominate the premier league for the best part of a decade.

The Chelsea team that won a few league titles had a British spine.

The Arsenal team that regularly competed and won titles again had a British spine.

Foreigners don't win leagues titles, a combination of having the best players available does, irrespective of where they come from.

F**k me that's scary.

I wouldn't care if we lost all of them except maybe for Carroll.

What a waste of money, un-F***ing-believable.

Allen and Jonjo showed in one game more than Hendo did all last year and the same can be said about Sterling against Downing.

What a F***ing joke that is, who ever sanctioned those transfers need to be put in prison, we were robbed.

Who's to say we have very little money to spend and that its all Kenny's and holy Comolli's fault ?

I find these threads a tad premature whilst the transfer window is still open.

Rodgers was only saying yesterday he's hoping to bring a couple of more signings in.

If he does that without us losing any players we could end up with a net spend of around £50m.

That's could only be seen as fair investment considering Kenny's net spend was around £35m.

So don't be burning your Kenny and Comolli effergies in the streets just yet.

If we retain Adam, Carroll, Henderson, Downing and they rack up 50 appearances between them in the cups and the odd league game and that gives Rodgers first team a rest every now and then and helps them to go on and claim a champions league place, I don't think any one will be questioning their values.

End of the day football's a squad game and all the teams challenging have strength in depth and if you look at our squad over all barring another striker and a winger so have we.

RE The bits in bold - spot on! Nobody knows what we have and haven't done in this window as a whole because it ain't f**king finished yet.

Rodgers saying yesterday how he wants to bring in more players and the way in which he has said over the Summer the importance of getting value for money and not overspending suggests to me that we may well be wrong in pointing the finger at FSG and it could well be that Rodgers has not seen the right players at the right prices that he wants.

Again though we don't know, and maybe this time next week we'll know more.

Not getting into the KD and DC debate from last Summer too much but some people's reluctance to put any blame on KD for the Downing, Henderson and Adam signings is a bit mad. Of course he will of 'okayed' the decisions on the fees per player.

Anyway, as PD has pointed out in another thread (where the OP in this one could of gone BTW), we have been quite shrewd so far this Summer and got the wage bill down, or fairly distributed in terms of player levels and performance.

Also, look at the ages within the squad now. I'm happy at the moment and I'm hoping to be a bit happier this time next week.

Not getting into the KD and DC debate from last Summer too much but some people's reluctance to put any blame on KD for the Downing, Henderson and Adam signings is a bit mad. Of course he will of 'okayed' the decisions on the fees per player.

No doubt he did mate and we paid well over the odds for Carroll, Downing and Henderson.

But their price tags don't come into it now they are here IMO.

The only thing that should matter is can they do a job for us if called up on and do they offer strength in depth ?

I'd have to say yes to all three.

Whether they will be here by the end of the window is anybody's guess, but for now they do offer something that we've been lacking in recent years, no matter how much we paid for them.

Kenny had the final say in transfers I doubt very much if he got involved in fees or wages he just gave a yes or no to the targets.
I was quite happy with our bench yesterday because if they want to get into the team they have to perform well so its up to them.

Lets look at the situation in terms of amortisation on our books in keeping with the FFP rules.

If Carroll who signed a five and half year contract completes this season with the club he will show as a £18.75m asset.

If Henderson who signed a five year contract completes this season with the club he will show as a £10.8m asset.

If Downing who signed a five year contract completes this season with the club he will show as a £10.8m asset

If Adam who signed a five year contract completes this season with the club he will show as a £5.1m asset.

Now form a purely financial perspective in trying to balance our books to comply with the FFP rules, its not beyond the realms of possibilities we could sell all the above at those prices next summer and break even on the transfers without showing a loss on our books.

Which if we are adhering to the FFP rules then its probably best for us as any losses on our books will surely reflect on what we can spend.

Too many people are prepared to say we should F**k this or that player off at any cost without thinking of the repercussions/implications it may have on the future transfer budget.

Is rather 'embarrassing' shall we say.

This stuff is old news nowadays, KK himself said he had final say on transfers and he made mistakes in the market, but name me a manager that hasn't.

As for the players

Adam, £7m was in and around the right price, but he played far too often for what I consider a squad player.

Carroll, £35m was a joke, no matter which way you try and cut it.  Still think he's a decent player, but his price tag will always be an albatross around his nexck.

Downing, £20m was too much, but if he was brought in to supply crosses , as has been suggested, we purchased the wrong winger.  His last season at Villa, in which he was by far their best player, he was part of a mobile, interchanging attacking three, composing of himself, Young, Agbonlahor and occasionally Albrighton.

Henderson, again we overpaid, but out of the four, I've seen more potential in him, but of course, it's about realising that potential and that's still in doubt.

Those players are the reason why BR has little money to spend. Kenny's bad decision making has damaged the club significantly.

I thought you were an intelligent football poster, until i read this post that is. I know you have a right to an opinion but to say Kenny has damaged the Club shows your lack of understanding of what's gone on at the Club over the last few years.

If i was you i'd gather information on the state we were left in and once you've compared the outcome after Kenny came in then you can feel free to come back and apologise for such an outlandish claim.

Did Kenny make mistakes?, probably, just as any manager does during their career.

Remember this, when this Club was on it's arse, who was it that came in and brought a smile to every Liverpool supporter's face?, who brought back the pass and move football?, who brought every faction at the Club back together and united us?.

Who brought us our first piece of silverware for 6 years?, who took us to another final at Wembley?, who put the belief back into Liverpool Football Club?.

You are probably of the belief that some fans see no wrong in Dalglish but that's not true. Everyone has their flaws but Dalglish's qualities will always severely outweigh any mistakes he makes.

He was a genius as a player, he won us our last League title as a manager and had it not been for the strain of that tragedy at Hillsborough we would have dominated the 90's as well.

So do us a favour please?, keep those negative comments for your mates down the pub, they have no place in this forum. Constructive criticism is welcomed, but not condemnation.

Apart from the signings , king steadied our ship. We were going down and then KK came and lifted our morale. Having said that, his signings were all poor . May be that cost his job .

Indeed... enough said











PS: I think we would regret if we sell Carroll; he would have win us the game with his header

Hmmnnn Interesting arguments.

Did Kenny waste money??? Is Brendan the transfer market messaih ? Was Rafa a wheeler dealer or a money waster?? Did Houllier sign the right players for the team?

All wonderful questions and like its always said hindsight is a good thing.

About transfers
Apart from the era of the eigties and early nineties when the King won our last league title, infact before Souness Liverpool have been in my opinion 50 50 in the transfer market.

Taking it from now; Is Allen really worth 15 mil, in conparism with KK's signing he is probably worth 50mil though he has only played 2 games for LFC, but then again the flip side is he cannot be woth the same as Santi Carzola or even Shingi Kagawa, does it make it a bad transfer for us, HELL NO if he delivers what he was bought for.

Cos Torres cost Chelsea 50 mil didnt mean he would score 50 premier league goals, it meant he needed to be the standout striker n the club and contribute a considerable quota to the goals the club required to achieve what they set out to achieve. So if he had scored 10 key goals on their path to Champions League glory he would have been a success. Same way if Carroll had score key goals in our path to winning both cups last season i guess the criticism wouldnt be about the price tag.

My point is Downing is a decent player cos he was bought for 20 mil doesnt mean he isnt decent, he isnt just worth 20 mil period, he yeah he is good enough to be a squad player cos we arent as good as we think we are really.
Same goes for Henderson, no way he is worth 20 mil but he is a pretty decent footballer who is good enough to also be a squad player.
Carroll is a terrific striker if u play to his strenghts, based on that limitation i wouldnt sign him for 35 mil but i sure wouldnt mind having him in my team.

The message is unless we can get better quality with the proceeds we make from the sale of these players there is not point getting rid of them cos they are good enough to be in the Liverpool squad.

On Charlie Adams based on sentiments ( I have never really rated him) I would say yeah get rid of him for the heck of it .

Kenny got us to 2 finals in my book it was a decent season, cos for me there is no difference between 5th and 8th. My problem with Kenny was when it was obvious we were never making 4th he still persisted with these same guys instead of trying out the kids. But thats history now. If i was the American KK would still be in charge or better still if I was Hicks & Gillet Rafa would still be Liverpool manager. But all that is in the past now.

Lets look ahead and think of how to move the team forward, Get behind the coach, the players and make Anfield the fortress its supposed to be.

I know a lot of u guys will only be too eager to pick holes in my post, its okay there are always 2 sides to a book.