Referees influence games more than the players and managers

I don't think it will get any easier for us, the fa have been embarrassed by the findings of the Hillsborough panel and i think that they and" remember that some of them sit on the board of the mancs" will have a hidden agenda against us . I don't think we're being paranoid, we've had some pretty serious decisions go against us.

It's come to the stage that every game we go into we expect something to happen and it's always controversy, surely someone could draw up a dossier on the incidents and get a journalist "preferably not English " to do a piece on it.

The big refeering decisions over the last few years have gone against us and it's no coincidence and there is something very wrong somewhere.

I don't think it will get any easier for us, the fa have been embarrassed by the findings of the Hillsborough panel and i think that they and" remember that some of them sit on the board of the mancs" will have a hidden agenda against us . I don't think we're being paranoid, we've had some pretty serious decisions go against us.

It's come to the stage that every game we go into we expect something to happen and it's always controversy, surely someone could draw up a dossier on the incidents and get a journalist "preferably not English " to do a piece on it.

Exactly mate. Imagine if we had of got controversial decisions today and the Mancs started chanting, it puts the neutral support our way. The other way, if we start chanting it takes it away from us. The FA are a political organisation who are going to fight a dirty war, especially now the  findings are public.

Get Rafa to do the analysis starting with that 1 million page report from the FA on the 'Suarez" incident.

It is a shame for any game when the most influential/talked about person on the pitch is the ref - that should never be the case.

I really think the youngsters are the future and the older players should be sold and replaced with cheaper and younger quality because they seem like the ones who are taking to the new approach more.

Oh. Holy. F**k. What a strange thing to post. 

Why would you go selling the older players when, in your own words: "All in all, a good performance and the players can feel hard done by."? Remembering, of course, your assertion, that it was the ref (and not the older players) who cost us yesterday.   

The tide will turn when the old soak retires and his lackeys dwindle in numbers. Unfortunately it'll also be the end of the NHS as it drowns trying to deal with the ever increasing numbers of depressed glory hunting manc wanabees around the country self harming and throwing themselves off tall stuff.

 The ref had a bad game, it happens

 All clubs have decisions go for ands against them, they only matter in close games.

 We have to play better so when decisions go against us most of the time it does not affect the result.

 If we start winning games by two an three goals we will stop noticing all the refs cock-ups   

The ref had a bad game, it happens

 All clubs have decisions go for ands against them, they only matter in close games.

 We have to play better so when decisions go against us most of the time it does not affect the result.

 If we start winning games by two an three goals we will stop noticing all the refs cock-ups   

The mancs would argue with your initial claim about refs and bad games, in fact they rarely come across the phenomenon.
Now LFC on the other hand......

 The Mancs have had a penalty in EACH of their last three matches. I'm no statistician, but that's quite rare. Away at Chelsea last season, they were awarded TWO penalties in one match, when 3-1 down (by Howard Webb admittedly but two in one game for them is even a stretch for him). The "penalties awarded" stats never tell the true picture, because it's WHEN the penalty is awarded that is the crucial thing. Pointless getting one when you're 3-0 up, it's when it's 0-0 in a crucial "must win" match that you really need them, or when it's 1-1 and you're getting battered by 10 men.

 Does anyone seriously think we'd have got theirs from yesterday if we were at Old Trafford? (probably not a fair question because we wouldn't have got theirs at Anfield never mind away from home). We've had two penalites in the last two weeks NOT given which have cost us many points. Not only is it not surprising, it's entirely predictable.

Yes Halsey was an embarrassment but until we start banging in 3 or 4 goals which our performance warranted we will continue to suffer with decisions that cost us points.

I think there are more good refereeing moments than bad ones. Bad ones just stick out, that's all.

Another thing that I can't understand is time added on in yesterdays game. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

So Agger was down from 75:40 and the penalty whistle goes at roughly 80:10.

There were 4 substitutions made in the second half.

There were 3 goals scored in the second half.

Kelly was down injured from 92:30 until 94:06 ish.

Plus the fourth official usually adds a minute on for the ball generally being out of play.

How the hell did the official come to a total of 5 minutes added on?

Another thing that I can't understand is time added on in yesterdays game. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

So Agger was down from 75:40 and the penalty whistle goes at roughly 80:10.

There were 4 substitutions made in the second half.

There were 3 goals scored in the second half.

Kelly was down injured from 92:30 until 94:06 ish.

Plus the fourth official usually adds a minute on for the ball generally being out of play.

How the hell did the official come to a total of 5 minutes added on?

He asked Fergie for his opinion. 

Another thing that I can't understand is time added on in yesterdays game. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

So Agger was down from 75:40 and the penalty whistle goes at roughly 80:10.

There were 4 substitutions made in the second half.

There were 3 goals scored in the second half.

Kelly was down injured from 92:30 until 94:06 ish.

Plus the fourth official usually adds a minute on for the ball generally being out of play.

How the hell did the official come to a total of 5 minutes added on?

It wasn't at the old toilet

Not sure about a conspiracy, but we seem to see more and more poor refereeing each season.  It's short changing the fans that get to matches week in week out, especially if a big decision is called wrongly and affects the outcome of a game.

I'm sure refs are influenced by some fans perceptions of players and consequently don't give those players many legitimate calls (e.g. Suarez) too.

I also seem to remember a documentary about referees where they showed that refs do have to declare who they support, so they never end up reffing for those teams.  Nothing about big rivals though, so they could theoretically influence the outcome of a game that could directly benefit their supported team.  However that is probably pushing things a bit far.....

It's not just us, it's a wide scale problem in the league and it will continue to be a problem until such time as Referees are required to come out and give a post-match interview. It would have been interesting to have Halsey come out after the game and explain to the interviewer just why he gave Shelvey a Red and not Evans. Perhaps there is a legitimate reason, perhaps he's just an incompetent tw*t, it doesn't really matter so long as we all know the reasons. If they are legitimate then at least we know. If they're incompetent then they're being called out on it in public so they're a lot less likely to make hasty of ill considered decisions and more likely to er on the side of caution. If you have to publicly justify your decisions and not hide behind the anonymity of the FA then refereeing standards in this country will improve considerably.

Another thing that I can't understand is time added on in yesterdays game. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

So Agger was down from 75:40 and the penalty whistle goes at roughly 80:10.

There were 4 substitutions made in the second half.

There were 3 goals scored in the second half.

Kelly was down injured from 92:30 until 94:06 ish.

Plus the fourth official usually adds a minute on for the ball generally being out of play.

How the hell did the official come to a total of 5 minutes added on?

That's been a bug bear if mine for a while now.

Timekeeping should not be within the purview of the referee any more.  The ball has been spending less and less time actually in play over recent years.  Time for independent timekeepers  who only start the clock when the ball is in play.  Plus it'll eliminate time wasting at free kicks, goal kicks, throw-ins and substitutions because it'll be pointless, same with feigning injury if the clock has stopped.

I'm sure refs are influenced by some fans perceptions of players and consequently don't give those players many legitimate calls (e.g. Suarez) too.

We really need the club to go to the referees association over this, just show the evidence, now whilst Suarez has gone down easily at times, I'm beginning to lose track of how many times he is actually fouled and gets F all.

That's been a bug bear if mine for a while now.

Timekeeping should not be within the purview of the referee any more.  The ball has been spending less and less time actually in play over recent years.  Time for independent timekeepers  who only start the clock when the ball is in play.  Plus it'll eliminate time wasting at free kicks, goal kicks, throw-ins and substitutions because it'll be pointless, same with feigning injury if the clock has stopped.

Good idea Rodders, but doubtful that would ever happen I suppose. Just about every other major sport in the entire world has an official timekeeping function. Don't know why football can't have it.

Promotion/relegation system after a complete review of the match officals' performance by an independent body.  Award more points for better shows of officaldom, promote and relegate accordingly much the same way the teams are.  Problem solved.

Of course, with this being such a sensible idea, the FA would never agree to it.

Technology is there to help football & referees why it isnt  used gawd knows ,pleading your case to the refereeing ombudsman will get you heehaw,your in dream land if you think an independent body is going to be allowed to call the shots on refereeing performances ,so what happens when the guy everybody thinks is the best because hes got the most points from this independent body , has a howler costing Liverpool the league ,hes the best guy for the job youve said it yourself ,youve still won the hole in the doughnut because of inept refereeing decision ,technology and a judgement made on that evidence  its the way forward.

Here's a radical scenario why not just  buy some c**t to score F***ing goals for Liverpool in the transfer window then their mistakes would pale into insignificance ,we've been making enough f***in chances .

Once a player is known as a diver, then penalty decisions are based on that reputation.Saurez will never get a penalty awarded in england. So defenders have licence to trip saurez in the penalty zone.

The thing is being a referee is not easy. Especially when you have 22 prima donnas cheating at every possible opportunity and 40,000+ crowd cursing and swearing at you.

Having said that, there is no doubt in my mind that Halsey had a poor game. He wasn't sure about Shelvey's Red card - you could see him listening to a second opinion in his earpiece. Shelvey's sending off was fair enough but they all missed Evans' lunge too. Halsey looked slow and off the pace mentally after that decision - someone mentioned it earlier in this thread - but he never recovered from it.

What did shock me - and I am surprised nobody has mentioned it yet - was the comments made by some LFC fans on Twitter saying that they wished he had died of cancer. I'm sorry, but after all the stuff on Hillsborough and all the talk about Utd fans being respectful (which they largely were), a football match is no excuse for comments like that.