Will the real Liverpool please stand up?

Whats Arsenal's form?  I've got a horrible feeling its something like  P5 W5 D0 L0 Pts 15.
Hope I'm wrong.

You're right, they have won all of their last five games, however they will also drop points at some stage and could well go on a run of five games as bad as our 'terrible' run.

Most people seem to be focusing on the fact that we haven't played well recently, hardly anyone seems to notice the fact that apart from the Marseille game we've ground out results whilst playing sh*t, which is something Champions have to do.

Oldred, you came on after I posted this:

I am not hanging the blame on rotation. At most, it may be a factor, but that was not the point of my post, and I do not intend to let my point be drowned in a tide of comments surrounding that issue. Use the rotation thread for that, please.

So what do you do? Whinge about rotation.

So your statement...

There is no point, though, in trying to stifle debate just because you don't agree that the problem is a rotation one.

... is unwarranted. There is a thread for the rotation argument, and I would also happily debate your other points, which I would contest; but not in this thread.

You went off-topic and deflected from the point. And kindly stop using the word "proof" when you should be thinking in terms of "evidence". Nothing has been proven. We could all be wrong.

Complete & utter rubbish.

Man Utd's first 5 league games of the season: P5 W2 D2 L1 Pts 8
Chelsea's last 5 league games: P5 W1 D2 L2 Pts 5
Our last 5 league games: P5 W3 D2 L0 Pts 11   

I rest my case.

Eddie you know you should be a brain surgeon. Bring me this season stats I mean what an absolute idiot you really are.  A lot of our hopes of actually winning the premiership have stemmed from the fact that both Chelsea and Man Utd  poor starts.  But before finding a fault in everyone’s post like some sadist not giving a little considerations to the emotions that run after a horrific performance, why don’t you go and dig out 5 results of Man utd last season, or Chelsea’s in the years previous.

Jeez

We have lost 1 game
I'm glad we are not like spurs or the Derby man there would a lynching

Eddie you know you should be a brain surgeon. Bring me this season stats I mean what an absolute idiot you really are.  A lot of our hopes of actually winning the premiership have stemmed from the fact that both Chelsea and Man Utd  poor starts.  But before finding a fault in everyone's post like some sadist not giving a little considerations to the emotions that run after a horrific performance, why don't you go and dig out 5 results of Man utd last season, or Chelsea’s in the years previous.

So your saying we've only got our hopes up of winning the league because of the mancs bad start, and chelski's? Bollocks, we outplayed chelski when they came to Anfield, proving that we can be title contenders if we were consistant, before the season even began we had high hopes for the season. You want Utd and Chelski's first 5 games of a seasone for the last couple of years, I'll give you ours and theirs,

season 06/07
Liverpool - P5 W2 D1 L2
Chelsea - P5 W4 D0 L1
Utd - P5 W4 D0 L1

season 05/06
Liverpool P5 W1 D4 L0
Chelsea P5 W5 D0 L0
Utd - P5 W3 D2 L0

So from that you can clearly see that we had no chance of winning the league after our starts, this season we have started brilliantly and still in with a shout of winning the league, if we can't post the stats on a forum where do you want them to be posted? It's what a forums for discussion, not to slate everyone who you disagree with.

This topic has gone to the dogs.

Can you lock it, please.

Bring me this season stats I mean what an absolute idiot you really are.

You say championship winning sides don't go on a run of five games like we've just had, so I prove that Utd & Chelsea have already had a run that's worse, and that makes me an idiot?

I think you need to take a good long look in the mirror & ask yourself who the idiot really is.

Anyway, seeing as this season apparently doesn't count, last season Man Utd had two runs of five games worse than our last five matches. 23rd August to 23rd September 2006 they won two, drew two & lost one, and 21st April to 13th May 2007 they also achieved the same results from five league games.

The champions from the season before, Chelsea, had a run from January 22nd to February 11th 2006 when they won one, drew three and lost one. In the 04/05 season they were also champions, yet from September 11th to October 16th 2004, they had a run of two wins, two draws and one loss.

What about Arsenal in the 03/04 season, when they went unbeaten? Surely they didn't have a run as bad as our last five 'terrible' results? Wrong, from 30th November to 26th December 2003 they won two & drew three out of five games, and form 11th April to 4th May 2004 they won one & drew four out of five.

Now will you just accept that your original statement was wrong, or do I have to go back a few more years for you?

You say championship winning sides don't go on a run of five games like we've just had, so I prove that Utd & Chelsea have already had a run that's worse, and that makes me an idiot?

I think you need to take a good long look in the mirror & ask yourself who the idiot really is.

Anyway, seeing as this season apparently doesn't count, last season Man Utd had two runs of five games worse than our last five matches. 23rd August to 23rd September 2006 they won two, drew two & lost one, and 21st April to 13th May 2007 they also achieved the same results from five league games.

The champions from the season before, Chelsea, had a run from January 22nd to February 11th 2006 when they won one, drew three and lost one. In the 04/05 season they were also champions, yet from September 11th to October 16th 2004, they had a run of two wins, two draws and one loss.

What about Arsenal in the 03/04 season, when they went unbeaten? Surely they didn't have a run as bad as our last five 'terrible' results? Wrong, from 30th November to 26th December 2003 they won two & drew three out of five games, and form 11th April to 4th May 2004 they won one & drew four out of five.

Now will you just accept that your original statement was wrong, or do I have to go back a few more years for you?

Out-standing response! and very true.

Its good to back an argument with statistics when they’re accurate and used in context.  I just thought I’d have a look at the stats and would like to share them:

23/8/06 Charlton 0- 3 Man u
26/8/06 Watford 1 – 2 Man u
9/9/06   Man utd 1- 0 Spurs
13/9/06 Celtic  2 – 3 Man utd
17/9/06  Man utd 0-1 Arsenal
23/9/06  Reading 1-1 Man utd

23rd August to 23rd September 2006 they won two, drew two & lost one,

Can someone help here as I just don’t see what he sees, or infact any crisis in these results!

I think you need to take a good long look in the mirror & ask yourself who the idiot really is.

Eddie I am not going to tell you to look in the mirror, because I’m not sure your fit enough.
By the way do specsavers still do the 2 for 1 offer!

Can someone help here as I just don’t see what he sees, or infact any crisis in these results!

So I made one mistake, big deal. Utd in that run actually won three, drew one & lost one, which is still by the way a worse performance than the five Liverpool results we were initially talking about.

You originally made the statement that championship winning teams don't go on runs of five games like we had, the fact hasn't changed that I've named numerous times when they have. I take it by the fact that you haven't argued any of the other stats, instead trying to mock me for a slight error, means that you accept your original post was factually incorrect.

First of all I want to make it crystal clear that I do not want benitez’s head.  I disagree with some of his policies.  I think that he needs to tune up his rotational policy for success in the prem.  As for my initial post I don’t think we’re ready to stand up and be counted just yet. 

Eddie if you’re going to use stats can you please read and analyse them. There is nothing worst than using stats out of context. 

I take it by the fact that you haven't argued any of the other stats,

Lets have a look at your second example! 

21st April to 13th May 2007

I'm not going to type out all of the results because I think everyone knows what happened it was only a few months ago.

Surely you can differentiate between losing against AC milan away in the semi final and losing to marseile at home!
And Chelsea away draw is a good result.  And your talking about a period when the title was over and they were not in CONTENTION.   Losing to West Ham did not make a difference to the fans or the club. Infact they were celebrating after the whistle. Unlike against Marseille.  You better off getting some results from pre season or reserve games!

Eddie if you’re going to use stats can you please read and analyse them

And if you're going to argue my stats, can you please read them.

21st April to 13th May 2007 they also achieved the same results from five league games.

Absolutely no mention of the AC Milan game, league games only.

And yes, you might be right that the game against West Ham didn't matter to Utd, but that's by the by. The fact is you stated Championship winning sides don't go on runs of five games as bad as we had, you didn't state 'when it mattered' or any other context, simply that they don't have runs like that. I have given six occassions over the last four seasons when they have.

I'm sure seeing as it took you the best part of five hours to come up with that response (don't say you'd only just logged on cos I checked) you must be very proud of it & think iot makes you look very intelligent. In actual fact by resorting to trying to be patronising & condescending you are only confirming that you don't have anything to back up your argument, any amount of nitpicking won't change that fact.

It takes a big man to admit they are wrong king kenny, are you that man?

I said championship contenders, and as i have said in my previous post they were not contending at the time.  Anyway so now your saying its the premiership.  Ok, the middlesborough draw was a poor result.  An away draw against chelsea is not a poor result, it was a good result. Unlike drawing with birmingham at home. Eddie as I said don't just read them analyse them.  You've admitted the West Ham game in not so many words.

Even still drawing to middlesborough = one poor result
West Ham =   the result is void.  Was it a premiership game for Utd it could have been a friendly.  And for WH it was absolutely everything. 

Now you have another result to contend with. You're right it take balls to admit a mistake. This is getting rather boring now just as our previous encounter your trying to go off the topic. 

It takes a big man to admit they are wrong king kenny, are you that man?

Obviously not

This all started with this one simple statement, all I have done is disagree with it, but you keep trying to insist it's right, flying in the face of the facts. I'm not trying to go off the topic, you're the one that keeps insisting you're right, as long as you do so I'll keep proving you're wrong.

Certain things are a matter of opinion, this isn't one of them. You've insisted that championship contenders don't go on a run of five games like we did & I have proved that the champions from the last four seasons have all had runs as bad & worse.

We agree on one thing though, this is getting boring. It didn't need to even get this far, after I posted my first reply you could've simply said 'fair enough, maybe they do go on runs just as bad sometimes', instead you chose to post about what an idiot I am, and this is why the debate is still rolling on.

Obviously not

This all started with this one simple statement, all I have done is disagree with it, but you keep trying to insist it's right, flying in the face of the facts. I'm not trying to go off the topic, you're the one that keeps insisting you're right, as long as you do so I'll keep proving you're wrong.

Certain things are a matter of opinion, this isn't one of them. You've insisted that championship contenders don't go on a run of five games like we did & I have proved that the champions from the last four seasons have all had runs as bad & worse.

We agree on one thing though, this is getting boring. It didn't need to even get this far, after I posted my first reply you could've simply said 'fair enough, maybe they do go on runs just as bad sometimes', instead you chose to post about what an idiot I am, and this is why the debate is still rolling on.

You guys still debating then?

Why can't you both accept each others opinions and meet in the middle as it looks like your as stubborn as each other and I can't see this being resolved peacefully.  Is this really what supporting Liverpool has come too, a couple of guys who have the same love of the best club in the world arguing over how it is run and who's got their stats wrong and at the same time insulting each other for their views?  Come on lads we're better than this.

Why can't you both accept each others opinions and meet in the middle.

As I said in the previous post mate, it's not really a matter of opinion. He's said that championship contenders don't go on a run of five games like we did, that's a statement that's either right or wrong. I've proved it wrong, the only thing that's keeping the debate going is the fact that king kenny keeps insisting he's still right. I've already agreed that this is getting boring now, but I'm not the one continuing it in the face of all the facts.

As I said in the previous post mate, it's not really a matter of opinion. He's said that championship contenders don't go on a run of five games like we did, that's a statement that's either right or wrong. I've proved it wrong, the only thing that's keeping the debate going is the fact that king kenny keeps insisting he's still right. I've already agreed that this is getting boring now, but I'm not the one continuing it in the face of all the facts.

Fair point Eddie I know we have had a few frustrating performances of late and I quite believe that this has fuelled the situation more so.  We have to be behind our team right now and unite as a force to vent fear in our opponents not each other.  Shake hands and make up guys for the forum's sake if not your own.

Been looking around at a few forums and the general concensus is this :

a) We are unbeaten

b) We have looked awesome at times this season, yes we aren't brilliant at the moment but this form for us is temporary.

c) We are in the top 4 after 8 games played. We're usually lucky to be in the top half:

Last 4 years after 8 games played

'04 - 12
'05 - 13
'06 - 10
'07 - 11

We have 16 at the moment

d) Chelsea are a point behind us with one game more, Man Utd look beatable also. Arsenal are a confidence team and have been since Wenger took over. Will take one bad result. Plus they lose 5 players to African Nations Cup soon. How many do we lose?

e) We have a world class striker in Torres. Something we've missed for a while

Positivity wins games. It also breeds confidence. It comes across to the players from the crowd. So when you boo and jeer the team and throw your scarves on the floor, try to think how you would feel if you were playing and were pissed off to begin with that you were having a mare. Negativity, It doesnt help the players atall, so you are adding to any problems that are arising.

Remember your'e  LFC fans. Remember who we are and how lucky you are that your team is the most successful side in England. Our time will come round again.

Have faith 

Been looking around at a few forums and the general concensus is this :

a) We are unbeaten

b) We have looked awesome at times this season, yes we aren't brilliant at the moment but this form for us is temporary.

c) We are in the top 4 after 8 games played. We're usually lucky to be in the top half:

Last 4 years after 8 games played

'04 - 12
'05 - 13
'06 - 10
'07 - 11

We have 16 at the moment

d) Chelsea are a point behind us with one game more, Man Utd look beatable also. Arsenal are a confidence team and have been since Wenger took over. Will take one bad result. Plus they lose 5 players to African Nations Cup soon. How many do we lose?

e) We have a world class striker in Torres. Something we've missed for a while

Positivity wins games. It also breeds confidence. It comes across to the players from the crowd. So when you boo and jeer the team and throw your scarves on the floor, try to think how you would feel if you were playing and were pissed off to begin with that you were having a mare. Negativity, It doesnt help the players atall, so you are adding to any problems that are arising.

Remember your'e  LFC fans. Remember who we are and how lucky you are that your team is the most successful side in England. Our time will come round again.

Have faith 

great post.Couldn't have summed it up better.