Transfer Policies.

Was having the usually weekly email discussion about Liverpool with my mate (not sure how much work he actually does with amount of emails I get of him ).

Today's discussion started about Downing rumoured to be going to Boro on loan, and it led me to look at the money we've apparently been happy enough to just let slip through our fingers.

It makes for scary reading, I thought back to the transfer deals back when Rafa was manager and how he had a rep for bringing in alot of average players alongside the odd gem.

When you look at these transfers though, we hardly ever lost money or you can give valid reasons as to why we lost on the deal and infact made money on some, where did it all go so horribly wrong. When did we become so naive in the market.

Here are a selcetion of deal that highlight my point.

Joesmi bought for £2m, swapped for Kronkamp who was then sold for £1.5m. Tried two players neither good enough but only lost £500K

Gonzalez never really settled but we only lost £300K on the transfer.

Sissoko £5.8m, sold for £2.4m profit.

Crouch £7m, sold for £3m profit.

Barragan made £440K profit.

Leto made just over £1.1m.

Bellamy made £1.5m

Yes you can say we lost on some in those times but none would be what I can heavy losses, if you take in account the shifts they put in for the club while they were here. The two stand outs back then were probably, barring the ones that let there contract run down and left on frees.

Cisse £8m loss.
Morientes £3.3m loss.

Fast forward a couple of years to the back end of Rafa's reign and the more recent years now it seems we bring in these average players yet ship them out along with a massive loss!

It all started around the Robbie Keane transfer horror show.

Keane £7m loss.
Dossena £2.5m.
Aquilani £14m.
Poulsen £3.5m.
Adam £3m.

Add to this the possible £15-20m loss on Carroll and £10-15m on Downing.

I wonder what's changed in such a short space of time, my only hope is that we return to being more stringent in either or scouting of players or in our negotiating with deals.

What's changed is irresponsible buying and overpaying on players.

Mascherano £1.7 m sold for£17.6
     

Mascherano £1.7 m sold for£17.6
     

We paid close to £17mil for Masher

I agree but also in regards of Adam, Poulsen etc.

I don't think price wise, we paid too much we just appeared to bend over if you pardon the term when it came to selling them on.

We paid close to £17mil for Masher

Sorry i didnt see the decimel point , My point was we didnt really make alot on him my appoligies

We paid close to £17mil for Masher

Paid an initial £1.5m then I believe £17.1m,

The likes of Alonso, Torres, Kuyt tec, come into different category imo, weather you make big loss or big gain is out weighed with the contribution while they've donned the red shirt.

I agree but also in regards of Adam, Poulsen etc.

I don't think price wise, we paid too much we just appeared to bend over if you pardon the term when it came to selling them on.

We paid money for Poulsen - that is overpaying !! £4mil for him was overpaying

Adam was worth a couple mil yet we paid nearly £8mil for him ?

Only one player has been bought recently for a value that is close or under his ability and that's Suarez.

Some of the other players its embarrassing the fees we paid

The Masch transfers about wiped there feet but in all honesty had we last half what we paid I could take it because of what he gave us.

I'm talking the on going players who stay around a season or so at most, that we are suddenly losing millions and millions of pounds on without them even contributing anything on the field.

Rafa's transfer 'faults' were overplayed I think, he may have bought a load of average players, but only because he was not allowed to pursue his, more expensive, favoured targets. He still managed to make money on a significant number of these 'average' signings. Then toward the back end of his tenure we made significant losses on the likes of Aquilani and Robbie Keane, which skewed the equation slightly.

To say we overpaid for Carroll and Downing is stating the obvious. We'll make a loss on these two of course. Where does the blame for that lie? Well, with Kenny and Comolli, who were given the money to spend and spend it they did... Having said that I do think Henderson will come good (though we still overpaid for him too..), Enrique will turn out to be a class signing for 7m, form dip or no.

I choose to forget that Konchesky played for us and that we gave Fulham 3m + Kacinicklic and Dalla Valle.  Less said about Poulsen the better too...

GL - I'd include Enrique in the 'bought for value close to their ability' category too.

We paid money for Poulsen - that is overpaying !! £4mil for him was overpaying

Adam was worth a couple mil yet we paid nearly £8mil for him ?

Only one player has been bought recently for a value that is close or under his ability and that's Suarez.

Some of the other players its embarrassing the fees we paid

I disagree George £4m at the time for a international captain, and one that was at a top club isn't overpaying. The fact when he signed he looked worth £4 not £4m is not the point I'm making.

Some of the other players its embarrassing the fees we paid

Have to agree with this. We've been right mugs in the transfer market. 

Yes Enrique is prob one you could include

I would include Enrique. He's shown in the last two league games how good he can be.

I ve never understood why anyone would sell there best players to direct opposition in Europe or England , Surely if Real /Chelsea etc come sniffing round your players you do everything you can to keep them .....Rant over

I disagree George £4m at the time for a international captain, and one that was at a top club isn't overpaying. The fact when he signed he looked worth £4 not £4m is not the point I'm making.

It was overpaying when players like him have gone for free transfers.

We wasted money on a player who hadnt really played top flight football for over a season.

Get him for a £1mil at its not a bad deal - £4mil was overpaying hence when 12 months later we can't give him away.

He isn't the only one though

I ve never understood why anyone would sell there best players to direct opposition in Europe or England , Surely if Real /Chelsea etc come sniffing round your players you do everything you can to keep them .....Rant over

Depends how much money is offered and who the player is.

Depends how much money is offered and who the player is.

or if your just Arsenal .........Cant understand why any team would weaken there team so direct competition can strenghten there .........just an opinion

or if your just Arsenal .........Cant understand why any team would weaken there team so direct competition can strenghten there .........just an opinion

The players who have left Arsenal have wanted to go and the best thing to do with an unhappy player is sell him for the highest fee possible which is what they've done.

or if your just Arsenal .........Cant understand why any team would weaken there team so direct competition can strenghten there .........just an opinion

Because of the money and if the player puts in a transfer request

We sold Torres to Chelsea because of the fee offered as well as the timing of the incident.

When clubs are resigned to losing a player they then have to maximise any income they get.

It was overpaying when players like him have gone for free transfers.

We wasted money on a player who hadnt really played top flight football for over a season.

Get him for a £1mil at its not a bad deal - £4mil was overpaying hence when 12 months later we can't give him away.

He isn't the only one though

Where you getting this from? He played 25 game for Juventus the season before we signed him and had 2 years left on his contract, he was awful for us but I don't think you can use this transfer as a mark for poor valued transfers, sorry.

Where you getting this from? He played 25 game for Juventus the season before we signed him and had 2 years left on his contract, he was awful for us but I don't think you can use this transfer as a mark for poor valued transfers, sorry.

I think he is a perfect example - as is Konchesky, Carroll, Downing , Henderson , Aquilani , Adam , Keane. Plus others over the years

I think the problems started when David Moores decided to sell. 

Parry wouldn't sanction a lot of players Rafa wanted, players who went on to become high value players.  Then after the sale to H&G and Rafa falling out with Parry, we had t*thead Purslow holding the purse strings with the sole intention of selling anyone and everyone to pay the banks.

He then went along with Roy's choice of players, all aging has beens on big wages.

Let's face it, we haven't really had anyone who knows what they are doing with transfers since the days of Peter Robinson, pre EPL.

Maybe that's why we've never won the bloody thing!

I think he is a perfect example - as is Konchesky, Carroll, Downing , Henderson , Aquilani , Adam , Keane. Plus others over the years

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one GL, I can't see how you can put the Poulsen transfer in the same category as the others in regards of paying too much to bring him in, fully agree in terms of shipping him out for a £3m loss but not for the fee paid.

I think the problems started when David Moores decided to sell. 

Parry wouldn't sanction a lot of players Rafa wanted, players who went on to become high value players.  Then after the sale to H&G and Rafa falling out with Parry, we had t*thead Purslow holding the purse strings with the sole intention of selling anyone and everyone to pay the banks.

He then went along with Roy's choice of players, all aging has beens on big wages.

Let's face it, we haven't really had anyone who knows what they are doing with transfers since the days of Peter Robinson, pre EPL.

Maybe that's why we've never won the bloody thing!

Excellent point Debs about Peter Robinson.

We were the envy of other clubs back then when we had the best administrator in the game doing our transfer business.

Excellent point Debs about Peter Robinson.

We were the envy of other clubs back then when we had the best administrator in the game doing our transfer business.

We sure did mate.  Never knew anything about them either till the photo shoot at Anfield.

£4m for a Danish international with 2 years left on his contract who'd played 25 games for a top European side is not an over inflated price.

The fact we only got £1m when we sold him on is the whole problem I see with what's was going off/is still going off at our club.

I think the problems started when David Moores decided to sell. 

Parry wouldn't sanction a lot of players Rafa wanted, players who went on to become high value players.  Then after the sale to H&G and Rafa falling out with Parry, we had t*thead Purslow holding the purse strings with the sole intention of selling anyone and everyone to pay the banks.

He then went along with Roy's choice of players, all aging has beens on big wages.

Let's face it, we haven't really had anyone who knows what they are doing with transfers since the days of Peter Robinson, pre EPL.

Maybe that's why we've never won the bloody thing!

Totally agree with this, can remember them days well. Too long ago for my liking debs!

We sure did mate.  Never knew anything about them either till the photo shoot at Anfield.

The way things should still be GL.

£4m for a Danish international with 2 years left on his contract who'd played 25 games for a top European side is not an over inflated price.

The fact we only got £1m when we sold him on is the whole problem I see with what's was going off/is still going off at our club.

Getting Edgar Davids on free was a good deal - the is a reason why we only got £1mil for him - because that's what he is was worth. Juve virtually snapped our hand off when we offered £4mil

Totally agree with this, can remember them days well. Too long ago for my liking debs!

Still only feels like yesterday mate.

 

We sure did mate.  Never knew anything about them either till the photo shoot at Anfield.

Pretty impossible to have deals like that now - I expect have the reason we didn't know was because there wasn't an Internet around to spread messages around.

Can remember rumours circulating round the ground in those days though

Bless him.  I wanted to be him, as in Secretary of a Football Club.  I did but only at local level.

Pretty impossible to have deals like that now - I expect have the reason we didn't know was because there wasn't an Internet around to spread messages around.

Can remember rumours circulating round the ground in those days though

More's the pity those days are gone though mate. 

More's the pity those days are gone though mate. 

Fully agree -

More's the pity those days are gone though mate.

Long gone now and gone forever which is a shame.

It makes me sad.

It's one of the things that really annoys me about our club and instead of improving it seems to be getting worse. I hoped Rodgers' reign would be the start of a new era in terms of transfer policy, but to start off with he's had to undo a lot of mistakes and take massive hits on fees received and maybe even wages part paid (Aquilani?).

I keep hearing talk of us buying Tom Ince from Blackpool, and it would be typical of us to sell him for pennies and then buy him back for millions.

Rafa may have bought a lot of average players but unlike some of his predecessors and successors, he ditched them pretty quickly if they didn't work out. That was one of his strengths. He didn't stick with an obviously bad buy. Better to make a small loss and add the money to that season's kitty to buy a better player than stick with someone who will never be good enough.

I keep hearing talk of us buying Tom Ince from Blackpool, and it would be typical of us to sell him for pennies and then buy him back for millions.

We should follow the Barcelona way of doing things and inserting buy-back clauses in transfers.

£4m for a Danish international with 2 years left on his contract who'd played 25 games for a top European side is not an over inflated price.

The fact we only got £1m when we sold him on is the whole problem I see with what's was going off/is still going off at our club.

The fact we pay these types top wages is the issue and we have no other option than to sell them at a massive loss otherwise no club would touch them.

We certainly need to wise up in the transfer market and as its been mentioned, such a shame because Peter Robinson was the main man back in the day and was a massive part of that "Liverpool way" of doing things.

Ah the old "Transfer Policies"/"Judgment In The Transfer Market" debate... it's been nigh on eight months since we've had a thread on this.

Rather than bore you all again by going through all the rationale and examples again (this time 'round) I'll just state the obvious: Irrespective of who the manager/owner is; when it comes to transfers - you win some, you lose some; always has been the case, always will be. 

True, but some lose more than others.

Fast forward a couple of years to the back end of Rafa's reign and the more recent years now it seems we bring in these average players yet ship them out along with a massive loss!

It all started around the Robbie Keane transfer horror show.

Keane £7m loss.
Dossena £2.5m.
Aquilani £14m.
Poulsen £3.5m.
Adam £3m.

It all started with the Alonso insanity .. money over sense (!?*"!) .....and Yes ....... the Robbie Keane insanity.

We certainly need to wise up in the transfer market and as its been mentioned, such a shame because Peter Robinson was the main man back in the day and was a massive part of that "Liverpool way" of doing things.

Totally agree with you re Peter Robinson but then again he was a man who put the club first and I think it was T.V.Williams who had the wisdom to bring Peter to Anfield in the early 1960s.

We probably looked more at the person than the player in the past people who had some steel.We have bought some good football players who didnt have the inner strength needed to play for this club.The old maxim of running through brickwalls should be writtern into the contracts.

Edit: wrong thread