Transfer Policies... How does the move the club forward; a worry for the game?

I was thinking the other day about how is best for us to move forward in terms of transfer strategies now.. Its no secret we have been poor in terms of transfers over recents years and we have lacked any decent long termism over transfer plans for a while, we have been for want of a better phrase knee jerk in our approach..

What? we have 50 million? lets spend it as soon as we f**king can.. What? I dont know who? I dont care.. Just spend it

What we need is a clear plan, Brendan seems to have a vision and has been rightly pointed out he will need his own players to implement that.. So He right now as we stand should be planning at least two windows in front, be thinking what he needs and sending scouts out to look for those players and speaking with their representetives and checking on their availablility, price, wage demand, personality... To see if they will fit in here. Not just go for the current "hot property".
We need to be spendning the money we have better, so therefore have these long term scouting in progress, and if target A doesnt come off, then have target B there to fall back on.. To stop what happened in the summer happening again with Dempsey.
Whats making me think he may well be doing this is with Sturridge, he aparently lined him up in the summer, had a deal "in principle" there, but waited, something wasnt right, so rather than rush in waited and now it looks as though it will go through.. And on the first of the month rather than the last. A player he wants done all bar the contract being signed, someone he feels will fit "his style"
He spoke the other day about wanting a traditional No.10 and that the process had started, hinting it was for the summer.. Again forward planning, finding the right players rather tha think.. I want a number 10... i want one now...

We dont have bundles of cash so deals need to be perfect, no-one gets all deals right, transfers are a form of lottery, but if we can turn it into 75% hits then we will be doing better.

What we dont need are people forcing players on the manager, let him set out the perameters of the search and then get final say in who is brought to him.. I have to wonder (as the story is Assaidi wasnt a Rodgers signing and that he refused a DOF) if he is proving a point with Assaidi, who has done well in his outings but is never in the reckoning for the league.. Is Rodgers saying, they can be 3 million or 30 million, unless i want them and i bring them in i wont use them

One of the biggest problems in my opinion the club has suffered over recent times is the constant restarting of these processes... Changing managers, changing ideas, changing plans.. We need to stick to one coherent plan and see it through.. Woy came in and brought his players, Kenny came in and didnt rate some, so they move on, normally at a loss or you cant move them on because of obseen wages.. Kenny brings his own players in.. Kenny gets sacked, Brendan comes in doesnt rate some.. Moves them on..
Round and round we go..
So we need to stick by the manager, he be able to know what he has to spend over  a few windows and put plans in place now for the next few, not wondering if he will be sacked like Kenny or Woy and having to take gambles on signings that may have a percieved more immediate impact.. Id like to think that Borini and Allen were the first parts of a big jigsaw he is putting together, that Sturridge and Ince are the next parts and that he is already thinking of his summer parts (the No.10 etc)

A worrying part of the game and us is the table that came out recently...




Of course for me we stand out, how have we paid 7 million quid to agents? I cant find the interview, not for the lack of looking, but i remember reading an interview with Werner/Hnery when they first brought the club saying they found these payments and fee's daft and they would stop the uneeded money going from the club to agents.. So have they now realised its imposible to stop or have we simply just not got any better at it? It cant be impossible as some clubs pay very little..
We are a big club, should it get to a stage where we are sat round the table with agents and players and they ask for daft fees's then just walk away, give them the chance to play here, at Anfield for Liverpool and a competetive wage, the rest can f**k off..
Move on to target B..

Do transfer windows make it easier for agents to force this? By having a short period of time to do deals do clubs feel backed into a corner almost over the need to get these deals done?
I heard Neil Mellor talking on City the other day and he said he has never had an agent when he played, he felt they were only in it for themselves, that players were being railroaded by agents to move when its probably not the time to do so.. that he wasnt sure that players truely understood what agents were taking, that they take a fee from the player and from the club..
He recounted a story from his time at Liverpool where after he had played 3 games under GH that Houllier took him to one side to say he wanted to offer him a new deal, which Mellor was delighted with, asked him to go with his agent, Mellor said no, that he didnt belive in them and that the PFA would act on his behalf.. He never heard about the new deal again or played under Houllier again in the first team.

Its not just us though, i heard Harry Redknapp talking the other day about his squad at QPR... saying that the wage bill was crippling.. That he told Jose Bosingwa that he was on the bench and he refused to play.. That he had fined him two weeks wages, 130,000.. Which as a basic was higher than anyone he had at Spurs.. The situation with bringing Green and Cesar in within weeks of each other? Madness
QPR? They average what 18,000 a week at Loftus road? Must have a wage bill to get on rival ours.. Boardering on relegation.. Footballs gone mad.

Agents and transfer windows should be thrown out of the game for me.. Both causing football debts it cant handle..

We seem to be making a bit of a stand over wages and agents.. We supposedly refused Sturridges agents demands and the move is still going through, and we are looking to tie down talented kids on good contracts but not obscene ones.. Making them work to get the next grade in payment before give it them before they truely deserve it.. Rightly so in my opinion..Thats a plus and credit must go to the owners for that from me

What do people think on our transfer plans though? For the long term are we better to miss out on the odd few players to make sure we get the long term right?

I think Houllier and Rafa had the right idea by signing untested (prem) players from abroad, but which they rated - It adds to the excitement because you have no idea how they are going to to do. Also if they do flop, most of the time you're not stuck with crazy wages like the British players. I'd love us to scout Africa and unearth a few gems like Ba or Cisse for a million or two, they could only do better than what previous signings have done!

Also, the higher agent fees could be because we're not in the champions league, to sort of sweeten the deal. + the fact we have spent big.

I agree that we need to have a proper transfer policy in place PD and I think BR was right to overhaul the scouting system.

We shouldn't be in a position where knee jerk decisions are necessary any more and each new arrival should be as near a perfect fit as possible.

No more square pegs and round holes from now on.

I'm also pleased that stupid contracts and agents demands aren't being met.  He said with Sigurdsson that he refused to offer him a bigger contract than he's been offered to go to Swansea and quite right too.

The role of agents is the latent, underlying influence that serves to further distort some of the very fair points you make in that OP PD.

Their existence depends on the ability to create a steady flow of traffic through major clubs (in particular) but also football in general. It plays to that other "x-factor" you highlight - the itchy trigger fingers of chairman driving a constant need for re-invention in both squad and back room team.

We do need to try to step outside this as much as we can and I do think overhauling the scouting team is the first major step on the journey.

I think rafa had a 75% record with transfers but I don't think Brendan has the team or name to get those kinds of players tbh plus we seem to have less money now with higher prices and more competition

I think 'future proofing' is over rated tbh either he's a good player now who fits the system ad can adapt or not.we just haven't bought very Many high quality players and somehow still spent a lot of money

I think Houllier and Rafa had the right idea by signing untested (prem) players from abroad, but which they rated - It adds to the excitement because you have no idea how they are going to to do. Also if they do flop, most of the time you're not stuck with crazy wages like the British players. I'd love us to scout Africa and unearth a few gems like Ba or Cisse for a million or two, they could only do better than what previous signings have done!

Also, the higher agent fees could be because we're not in the champions league, to sort of sweeten the deal. + the fact we have spent big.

I think what you would find happens generally with any manager is that they fall back into their comfort zone, the markets and players they understand and know the best..

Houllier brought alot from the French market, Rafa from the Spanish, Kenny and Brendan will be more British as thats what they know, its eliminates certain risks with them bringing players in that they may consider more risky and they know less about in terms of style, adapability and also the players are more aware of them as coaches and what they are after..

What we ideally need is a manager once he has that base he trusts to be given time and the knowledge that even with a few bad months, even a poor season that the rug wont be pulled from under his feet and the whole process starts again.. That they can plan 2-3 windows in advance and send scouts to places you mention with a model to fit, personalities they can work with, but not the expectation to find a star straight away.

For that they need their bosses and us to show patience

I think rafa had a 75% record with transfers but I don't think Brendan has the team or name to get those kinds of players tbh plus we seem to have less money now with higher prices and more competition

I think 'future proofing' is over rated tbh either he's a good player now who fits the system ad can adapt or not.we just haven't bought very Many high quality players and somehow still spent a lot of money

Rafa had plaenty that didnt work, thats not a criticism but an observation, for every Macherano and Torres there were plenty of Nunez, Kromkamp's, Gonzalez's and Josemi's...
That was due to always having to bring in players he may have deemed short term as the money wasnt really there under the previous owners and also having to overhall a side/squad in reletively short periods, therefore where i mention about being able to scout longer term, over 2-3 windows, get their personalities and their potential adaptability to a new country/culture etc would be benificial.. Longer term scouting is the key, slowly building, adding 2-3 a year that have been fully checked out to a managers squad rather than 5-6, where 2 may naver work out.. They may be good players but can they settle in England, can they live up to the physical side of the game?

Look at Josemi, Kromkamp and Arbeloa for example... 3 good right backs in good form and on the cusp... Only 1 adapted to the league.. Could longer scouting have reduced the risk? Stopeed us wasting 3 transfer fee's, 3 signing on fee's, 3 agents fees'...

Its a minefield that for it to be stable we need security and stability around the club, from the top, Brendan must know he is safe from a bad run.. That the long term vision which we have lacked for a while is there

Scouting and talent evaluation may be even more important that coaching. I think it transcends sports and it's one of those things where if you get the right players, they don't need to be "coached up" so much as set loose. They will work no matter what system you put them into and they will have a positive impact on the rest of the team. I think that's why folks lean so heavily on big names nowadays. They believe that's the only way to know for certain that you are getting a tried and true, quality player. Problem is most clubs don't have the money to bring in one player like that, much less a couple.


So you get the situation that we are in (and maybe most clubs to be honest) where you buy several "value" type players and hope one or two work out. I don't think that's Brendan's thinking necessarily...I'm sure all the players he requested he thinks will come good, but I think in general that's what teams are doing. It does worry me that we don't appear to be scouring all of the big leagues for talent and mostly focusing on English talent this window. Could it be that due to the shortness of the window and the need to get people in right away that we don't want to look overseas or across borders due to some perceived difficulty in getting those types of deals done quickly?

Not sure what the answer is but agree with you PD in that we really have to have a structure in place and stick to it for this thing to work.

Is it possible to win the league in this day and age id you don't spend an absolute shed load of money? Is it realistic to expect or hope that we can challenge in the league whilst buying players for 10-15 million pounds and not being able to compete for the really top talent available? I'm asking the questions honestly, not loading them up.

Is it possible to win the league in this day and age id you don't spend an absolute shed load of money? Is it realistic to expect or hope that we can challenge in the league whilst buying players for 10-15 million pounds and not being able to compete for the really top talent available? I'm asking the questions honestly, not loading them up.

No is the answer.Its not just that City buy players for twice the value we have they also have twice the number we have so could play two teams in the EPL, how can we compete with that when we buy the likes of Borini or Assaidi.
As it stands in all honesty top 6 would be a result for the club top 4 would be like winning the league.
Brendan would need in Excess of £100mil net spend to add 4 or 5 CL quality players to this squad to get it anywhere near the top of the league and we would still be short in numbers.
Its quite scary.
FSG hope to develop players and a team over 3,4 or 5 years and see steady progress.Good luck with that because as you progress the goal posts are being moved further and further away.

No is the answer.Its not just that City buy players for twice the value we have they also have twice the number we have so could play two teams in the EPL, how can we compete with that when we buy the likes of Borini or Assaidi.
As it stands in all honesty top 6 would be a result for the club top 4 would be like winning the league.
Brendan would need in Excess of £100mil net spend to add 4 or 5 CL quality players to this squad to get it anywhere near the top of the league and we would still be short in numbers.
Its quite scary.
FSG hope to develop players and a team over 3,4 or 5 years and see steady progress.Good luck with that because as you progress the goal posts are being moved further and further away.

 I've got to say I agree mate, particularly with your last point. I think because of this sometimes people get it wrong when they allude to previous glory years, the game has changed and we cannot compete (or we will not compete/whatever) in the transfer market. I personally don't think it would make too much difference who was in charge at the moment, if you slash as much off the wage bill as we have and then don't invest a large sum of money, it is unrealistic to expect us to improve from being 8th into title challengers. The current top three are a mile ahead of all the other squads in the league, and even Tottenham and Arsenal have a far better group of players than we do. I totally agree with anyone who says we should finish above Everton and Stoke, but much higher than that is over-achievement based on our current resources. Going forward, that isn't going to change regrdless of how many players we develop.

Brendan would need in Excess of £100mil net spend to add 4 or 5 CL quality players to this squad to get it anywhere near the top of the league and we would still be short in numbers.

would you trust BR with that sort of money

My post in the Brendan Rodgers threat sums up my thoughts on what we should be doing.

F**k all these big money signings just for the sake of spending millions, actually scout around and see if there's a better option in the lower leagues because usually there is and for a lot less money. For that to happen though the manager actually needs a pair of balls because the majority of fans won't accept buying a young lad from Bristol City for a couple of million when there's somebody from Getafe for three or four times as much money and a much fancier sounding name.

But the nearly 30 million we spent this summer could, in my opinion, been spent a lot better with a bit of scouting around the lower leagues.

My post in the Brendan Rodgers threat sums up my thoughts on what we should be doing.

F**k all these big money signings just for the sake of spending millions, actually scout around and see if there's a better option in the lower leagues because usually there is and for a lot less money. For that to happen though the manager actually needs a pair of balls because the majority of fans won't accept buying a young lad from Bristol City for a couple of million when there's somebody from Getafe for three or four times as much money and a much fancier sounding name.

But the nearly 30 million we spent this summer could, in my opinion, been spent a lot better with a bit of scouting around the lower leagues.

I think there are bargains to be had all around Europe mate, not just in England. Sadly we seem to go for the "flavour of the month" players. Players that have just had one outstanding season, so we pay top dollar without knowing if that is their level rather than their career season. Downing .... player of the year at Villa before we bought him. Keane had his best season just before we bought him.

If we are going to gamble on players maybe we should try to buy players before they have their career defining season rather than just after..... let them have their great season with us rather than paying over the odds for players who flatter to deceive.

Swansea got a bargain with Michu, so the players are out there, we just need decent scouts to find them, rather than scouts that just pick the players that anyone who reads a newspaper could choose.   

For that to happen though the manager actually needs a pair of balls because the majority of fans won't accept buying a young lad from Bristol City for a couple of million when there's somebody from Getafe for three or four times as much money and a much fancier sounding name.

Or Michu for 2 Million.

Doesn't have to be an expensive signing.
I'd be happy to have us make the right signing regardless of where they are from.

I think there are bargains to be had all around Europe mate, not just in England. Sadly we seem to go for the "flavour of the month" players. Players that have just had one outstanding season, so we pay top dollar without knowing if that is their level rather than their career season. Downing .... player of the year at Villa before we bought him. Keane had his best season just before we bought him.

If we are going to gamble on players maybe we should try to buy players before they have their career defining season rather than just after..... let them have their great season with us rather than paying over the odds for players who flatter to deceive.

Swansea got a bargain with Michu, so the players are out there, we just need decent scouts to find them, rather than scouts that just pick the players that anyone who reads a newspaper could choose.   

I agree there's signings to be had all over Europe mate. It was probably wrong of me to state just lower leagues as I did mean bargains anywhere around the globe - just laziness on my part really.

But we do go for the flavour of the month type players, you're right there. And that's what has stung us so often in recent years. Such is the demand for success at this club (and it grows with every passing year that we don't win the League) the managers panic and go for somebody who has just had a great season thinking that will be the quick fix.

That's why I say we need somebody with a pair of balls to manage us.

No is the answer.Its not just that City buy players for twice the value we have they also have twice the number we have so could play two teams in the EPL, how can we compete with that when we buy the likes of Borini or Assaidi.
As it stands in all honesty top 6 would be a result for the club top 4 would be like winning the league.
Brendan would need in Excess of £100mil net spend to add 4 or 5 CL quality players to this squad to get it anywhere near the top of the league and we would still be short in numbers.
Its quite scary.
FSG hope to develop players and a team over 3,4 or 5 years and see steady progress.Good luck with that because as you progress the goal posts are being moved further and further away.

Where the hell does £100mil come from ?

The owners don't have that just in the bank waiting to be spent.

We don't have the oil money to spend - its not going to happen

And we would also need to earn it back to ensure it stays within FFP

What we need is a couple of things -

1. To expand our commercial incomings and match day revenue through increase capacity

2. Improve our scouting massively - £140m has been spent on players and we have one world class player to show from that money - the majority has been wasted. Plenty of teams are buying quality players at the fraction of the price - our scouts need to find those players

3. Finally we will need FFP to work and for it to be successful.

The days of clubs just blowing £100 mil in one go have gone now. Even Chelsea spent the majority of their money on young talent in recent years.

My post in the Brendan Rodgers threat sums up my thoughts on what we should be doing.

F**k all these big money signings just for the sake of spending millions, actually scout around and see if there's a better option in the lower leagues because usually there is and for a lot less money. For that to happen though the manager actually needs a pair of balls because the majority of fans won't accept buying a young lad from Bristol City for a couple of million when there's somebody from Getafe for three or four times as much money and a much fancier sounding name.

But the nearly 30 million we spent this summer could, in my opinion, been spent a lot better with a bit of scouting around the lower leagues.

Agree with this, completely disillusioned by our scouting / transfer policy and overall business we've done in recent years. Rodgers was discussing how the purse strings will be loosened in the Summer, if this relates to the new team of scouts coming in and some confidence being put in them I've no idea but I'd just like to see us sign someone who surprises us rather than disappoints. Granted you would bracket Suarez in that statement but at £23m I expected at least a decent return for our money but considering he's the exception so far I'm not going to allow hats to be hung on him alone.

Spot on posts from Luke, Saint, DLS and Racer

there are players out there just need a better scouting system, downing did any of us want him also adam ,henderson, they all came for good money but they didnt really get us excited, when Rafa signed garcia, alonso we need really know them, we have this link up with a uruguayan team and got coates there are untapped players out there just need to find them belguim football seems to producing a lot of top notch players do we have scouting there probbly not

Spot on posts from Luke, Saint, DLS and Racer and of course, Mick

 Changed it up for you mate 

Changed it up for you mate 

Sorry Mick missed your posts

maybe the scouting system relies too much on how many inches in a game they pass the ball etc.What is needed is for the manager to have the balls to sign a player who fits the bill for the position and if it is a player who costs £2mil from Bristol buy him.
The buying in the past was buying into a succesful team and we could afford to take a chance on a kid from Bristol whilst also buying in a top quality player each year.
Our problem is we have fallen too far behind and nobody really seems to know what the answer is.

Just going off what George has said in the transfer rumours thread. Dries Martin, the last available talented Belgian player. Why haven't we been actively in on the Belgian talent out there, why aren't we snapping up some of the cream in Germany, etc.

Tom Ince and Daniel Sturridge? I could of scouted them myself.