General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread

I'm optimistic and think we will spend more

I guess it depends on who we sell mate.

Don't care about who we sell as much as I'm interested in seeing who we bring in. Jürgen has a good reputation for buying non ready made and making them good. Or do they make themselves good and Jürgen is just good at spotting breakout players?

Either way, I guarantee he isn't going to go into a season without European football and not think he can make a run at the league. What other goal could he possibly have? To finish top 4? I sure as hell hope not. You don't get where you want to go by aiming short of the ultimate goal. That was part of Brendan's problem I believe, he was happy with top 4. That's Arsenal, Spuds and even ManU mentality at this point. We should aim higher.

Snippet from Echo article:

Liverpool are continung their efforts to strengthen their squad. However, Kovacic isn’t on their list of targets.

Reports in Italy stated that the Reds were chasing the signature of Croatia international Kovacic, who has been down the pecking order at the Bernabeu. There was similar speculation regarding interest in Kovacic 12 months ago.

The ECHO understands that Liverpool are looking elsewhere as they look to tie up a deal for Udinese midfielder Piotr Zielinski

Don't care about who we sell as much as I'm interested in seeing who we bring in. Jürgen has a good reputation for buying non ready made and making them good. Or do they make themselves good and Jürgen is just good at spotting breakout players?

Either way, I guarantee he isn't going to go into a season without European football and not think he can make a run at the league. What other goal could he possibly have? To finish top 4? I sure as hell hope not. You don't get where you want to go by aiming short of the ultimate goal. That was part of Brendan's problem I believe, he was happy with top 4. That's Arsenal, Spuds and even ManU mentality at this point. We should aim higher.

Guarantee Maureen isn't aiming for top 4. After last season, top spot will be his aim and he'll spend whatever Utd throw at him to achieve it.

Snippet from Echo article:

Liverpool are continung their efforts to strengthen their squad. However, Kovacic isn’t on their list of targets.

Reports in Italy stated that the Reds were chasing the signature of Croatia international Kovacic, who has been down the pecking order at the Bernabeu. There was similar speculation regarding interest in Kovacic 12 months ago.

The ECHO understands that Liverpool are looking elsewhere as they look to tie up a deal for Udinese midfielder Piotr Zielinski

Well, I am shocked!!

This is the cycle we're currently in.

1. We perpetually finish somewhere between 6th and 8th (we've done it under numerous different managers now).

2. To address this issue, as we "can't compete" with the big spenders, we buy players "for the future" who we can "develop into stars".

3. At the end of each Summer window we tell ourselves that these players will "take time to bed in" and that a challenge this coming season is unlikely. Next season after this one though, "you just watch us go!".

4. During the course of each season, the new players do take time to bed in "as we said all along". We do though show signs of getting somewhere, and after Christmas go on a dizzying run which if extrapolated over a whole season would see us in the top three. Unfortunately though the bedding in period costs us, as does our smallish squad in terms of quality should we have a cup run. We finish 6th-8th.

5. At the end of the season our rivals spend big on ready made stars. Unfortunately for us, those ready made stars sometimes include our best player. If said player leaves for double his money wages, we call him a "mercenary c***" and buy lots of players "for the future" who we can "develop into stars".

6. Naturally those players take time to bed in and get used to the Premiership, so we reason that a challenge this season is unlikely.



Etc etc etc. Return to number one and repeat ad infinitum. Jürgen being a World class manager might be able to speed up the production line so for each Suarez and Sterling we sell we have a Coutinho and a Sturridge readyy and waiting, and players behind them too. But my fear is even Jürgen will only be able to nudge it up to 4th - 6th.

. At the end of the season our rivals spend big on ready made stars. Unfortunately for us, those ready made stars sometimes include our best player. If said player leaves for double his money wages, we call him a "mercenary c***" and buy lots of players "for the future" who we can "develop into stars

But what you fail to mention is how our rivals that spend big, for example City last season; signed ready made stars in Sterling, De Bruyne and Otamendi but finished in the top 4 by goal difference. Man United, spend even bigger on Di Maria, Rojo and generally whatever player they can get their hands on who are as it goes, ready made/proven players but yet they are struggling just as much as us. So your point about buying younger players and needing time to bed in whilst our rivals spend big on proven players doesn't really have any substance to it because they are not really any better off by doing so. Spurs signed Dele Alli from MK Dons and he has been terrific for them, who's to say that the young players we've signed won't have the same outcome? But it's good to see that people are already writing out young signings off from having an instant impact.
Age is irrelevant, if a player is good enough he will show he is good enough, simple. Also if anything, the so called proven stars are the ones struggling over recent seasons; Falcao, Di Maria, Pedro etc where as its been the younger signings in the league that have been having the greater impact.

It's all about signing the right players and managing them correctly but it seems some people already assume Klopp's younger signings will go the same way as Rodgers.

But what you fail to mention is how our rivals that spend big, for example City last season; signed ready made stars in Sterling, De Bruyne and Otamendi but finished in the top 4 by goal difference. Man United, spend even bigger on Di Maria, Rojo and generally whatever player they can get their hands on who are as it goes, ready made/proven players but yet they are struggling just as much as us. So your point about buying younger players and needing time to bed in whilst our rivals spend big on proven players doesn't really have any substance to it because they are not really any better off by doing so. Spurs signed Dele Alli from MK Dons and he has been terrific for them, who's to say that the young players we've signed won't have the same outcome? But it's good to see that people are already writing out young signings off from having an instant impact.
Age is irrelevant, if a player is good enough he will show he is good enough, simple. Also if anything, the so called proven stars are the ones struggling over recent seasons; Falcao, Di Maria, Pedro etc where as its been the younger signings in the league that have been having the greater impact.

It's all about signing the right players and managing them correctly but it seems some people already assume Klopp's younger signings will go the same way as Rodgers.

Completely missed the entire point but never mind.

Have we signed anyone decent yet?

I thought having the pull of Klopp would solve all our transfer woes.

Have we signed anyone decent yet?

Depends who you ask.

The pro's in here.

Or Jürgen.

This is the cycle we're currently in.

1. We perpetually finish somewhere between 6th and 8th (we've done it under numerous different managers now).

2. To address this issue, as we "can't compete" with the big spenders, we buy players "for the future" who we can "develop into stars".

3. At the end of each Summer window we tell ourselves that these players will "take time to bed in" and that a challenge this coming season is unlikely. Next season after this one though, "you just watch us go!".

4. During the course of each season, the new players do take time to bed in "as we said all along". We do though show signs of getting somewhere, and after Christmas go on a dizzying run which if extrapolated over a whole season would see us in the top three. Unfortunately though the bedding in period costs us, as does our smallish squad in terms of quality should we have a cup run. We finish 6th-8th.

5. At the end of the season our rivals spend big on ready made stars. Unfortunately for us, those ready made stars sometimes include our best player. If said player leaves for double his money wages, we call him a "mercenary c***" and buy lots of players "for the future" who we can "develop into stars".

6. Naturally those players take time to bed in and get used to the Premiership, so we reason that a challenge this season is unlikely.



Etc etc etc. Return to number one and repeat ad infinitum. Jürgen being a World class manager might be able to speed up the production line so for each Suarez and Sterling we sell we have a Coutinho and a Sturridge readyy and waiting, and players behind them too. But my fear is even Jürgen will only be able to nudge it up to 4th - 6th.

That's one way of looking at it Mick so let's have a look at some detail to back up your summary.

Firstly let's decide what "age" we should be looking.  I'll go with 21 and under but do a summary for those aged 22 and 23 as they're still considered "young with potential".

Secondly let's decide how far we go back.  I'll take it from the FSG takeover as that's the "time" we decided that buying for the future was the way to go.  So first window is January 2011.

January 2011

Luis Suarez
Andy Carrol - 21

Andy was a panic buy after losing our only No9 in the last few days of the window.  Wasn't fancied by Brendan and was promptly sent on loan after 6 months and sold a year later.

Summer 2011

Stewart Downing 
Jordan Henderson - 21
Charlie Adam
Jose Enrique 
Alexander Doni 
Sebastian Coates - 21
Craig Bellamy 
Villyan Bijev - 19

Hendo struggled to get into the team in his natural position due to having Stevie still playing.  For the money he was probably expected to be more of a hit although his contribution to our "nearly season" can't be sniffed at.  He's now a regular starter, is Club Captain and we've still to see how he does under Jürgen.

Seb was ideal for Kennys low block defending but struggled for Brendan.  Was moved on pretty quickly.

Bijev never featured as we couldn't get a work permit for him, he was released this summer.

January 2012

Philippe Coutinho - 21
Daniel Sturridge - 21

Both massive hits from day one and still our best 2 players.

Summer 2012

Nuri Sahin
Joe Allen - 22
Fabio Borini - 21
Oussama Assaidi
Samed Yesil - 18

Joe initially was highly praised until his injuries meant he couldn't get regular game time.  Has come back into his own under Jürgen and is back to playing how we expected him to and most would like him to stay.

Borini was never really robust enough or good enough although he's done reasonably well at Sunderland.

Yesil we'll never know about as two huge ACL injuries kept him out for over 18 months at the most important stage of a young players career.  Has never recovered and was released this summer.

Summer 2013

Kolo Toure
Iago Aspas
Luis Alberto - 21
Simon Mignolet
Aly Cissokho
Mamadou Sakho - 23
Tiago Ilori - 20
Victor Moses

Alberto got a few sub appearances before being shipped out on loan and never been seen since.  He's had a few good performances and scored some nice goals.  Doubt he'll fit Jurgens set up but still a decent player for the right team in the right league.

Sakho on his day is unbelievable, still has his shaky moments but is usually a starter.

Tiago another who was shipped out before getting a first team start.  He's also struggled with injuries but is still considered a talent and interestingly has not been released, yet.

Summer 2014

Rickie Lambert
Emre Can - 20
Adam Lallana
Lazar Markovic - 20
Dejan Lovren
Divock Origi - 19
Javier Manquillo - 20
Alberto Moreno - 21
Mario Balotelli -23

Emre struggled in his first season due to being played as a defender, in a disfunctional defense, has since become Jurgens go to man in midfield.

Lazer another constantly played out of position then shipped out on loan.  Will be interesting to see what Jürgen does with him as he certainly has the pace we sorely lack.

Divock is going to be immense in the coming seasons and will keep Daniel on his toes.

Manquillo was a loan deal who did reasonable well covering for Glen although probably not attacking enough for Brendan.

Moreno more or less plays every game and although a lot want to see him replaced it seems Jürgen has other ideas.  He's perfect for what he wants in a fb if he can learn his defensive duties and some positional sense.

Balo should never have been at the Club and can't wait for him to leave.

Summer 2015

James Milner
Danny Ings - 22
Adam Bogdan
Joe Gomez - 18
Roberto Firmino
Nathaniel Clyne
Christian Benteke

Danny Ings I can't wait to see this season, I was gutted for the lad when he got injured.  Seems Jürgen likes the look of him too.

Joe Gomes is another who arrived, played out of position but did well considering his age and lack of top level experience.  Will be good to see him develop further and if the injury hasn't caused a permanent weakness we should have a damn good CB on our hands.

So in conclusion, out of the 18 players bought, as "young with potential" 10 of them are either regular starters or part of the matchday squad.  2 are still with us that never got a start,  2 should never have been bought, 1 suffered serious injuries that he didn't recover from, 1 couldn't play due to work permit issues, 1 didn't fit the next managers set up and 1 wasn't good enough.

Considering transfers of any age, from any league, for any amount of money have a success rate of 50/50 that's not a bad return mate. 

What is interesting is that those who have been a success and will be the mainstay of our squad going forward under Jürgen is that they were all playing at a very high level when we bought them, even though they were still very young.  They've still got a lot of development to come, even those like Daniel, Sakho and Hendo who are entering their prime years will continue to develop and improve, especially when we have one of the best developers of talent as our Manager.

We've continued along these lines with our new recruits.  Karius, who is about to turn 23 has had 3 good seasons and nearly 100 appearances in the Bundesliga and Matip at 24, nearly 25 has had 7 seasons and 260 games in the Bundesliga.  That's a lot of top level experience for players that age.

I know people don't like to admit it but we have a young but experienced, very talented group of players as our core.  It may have taken us a long time to get there and some of them may not be good enough for when we eventually get back to the top but that's what building a squad is all about.

Of those who haven't broken through yet they were always the gambles as they weren't just young, they had no experience in the top flight at all.  A bit like Sinclair going to Watford he's unlikely to feature much for a good few seasons and having watched him play for the last 3 or 4 seasons I'll be surprised if he ever does, unless the team is set up perfectly for him which doesn't happen often at 19 years of age.

The transfers we have really failed at are the Balotelli, Caroll and Benteke ones.  They were never going to fit, weren't what we needed and they cost us nearly £100m to buy.  You could include Migs in that list too but he hardly broke the bank like the others.  Out of those though, from an accountants pov, we'll probably only lose money on Balo and Markovic, if he's sold, all the others will show as a profit on the balance sheet.

Of course now we're 6 years into the process it's possible that some will think about moving on, either to get regular playing time for those on the fringes or those who believe they won't win much if they stay but that's a risk with any player.  Hopefully we won't lose any of our regular starters this summer, that they'll give the Club and Jürgen another season.

Completely missed the entire point but never mind.

Not at all Michael but as per when your points are questioned you are unable to come up with a reasonable argument. You are saying about buying young players that need bedding in time whilst our rivals sign proven players but when something is picked up on you take the same old typical Michael attitude just like you eluded points you were picked up on in your "disclaimers" post for example by other members in the last few days.

If Troy Deeney is worth 30m then the football world is even more insane than I thought.

The good thing is, we should be receiving offers of up to 70m for Benteke any day now!

I guess it depends on who we sell mate.

Yes indeed, that is a question, who will be sold,?
I don't think we're in a position that we need to sell to buy, so for me those sold will perhaps give us a indication of the type of quality Jürgen is striving for,

Aside from the dead wood, the retiree's and the already goner's, it will be interesting to see who else will be surplus,
will Pirlo still be here, Lucas, Ibeeeeeyyy, Benteke, Markovic?,  that's 5 with huge question marks against their names,
Maybe we can add Hendo or even Milner although I think those two are safe for this window,
So of those questionable 5, will we replace all 5 or perhaps only 3 but with better quality and versatility,
I don't think we will see much more tooing and froing as perhaps as been suggested it's more about the kind of quality brought in as replacements,
We have 11 more click bait days left before we can take speculation's more seriously, even then I think until the Euro's have finished nothing can be regarded as solid targets.


YNWA

But what you fail to mention is how our rivals that spend big, for example City last season; signed ready made stars in Sterling, De Bruyne and Otamendi but finished in the top 4 by goal difference. Man United, spend even bigger on Di Maria, Rojo and generally whatever player they can get their hands on who are as it goes, ready made/proven players but yet they are struggling just as much as us. So your point about buying younger players and needing time to bed in whilst our rivals spend big on proven players doesn't really have any substance to it because they are not really any better off by doing so. Spurs signed Dele Alli from MK Dons and he has been terrific for them, who's to say that the young players we've signed won't have the same outcome? But it's good to see that people are already writing out young signings off from having an instant impact.
Age is irrelevant, if a player is good enough he will show he is good enough, simple. Also if anything, the so called proven stars are the ones struggling over recent seasons; Falcao, Di Maria, Pedro etc where as its been the younger signings in the league that have been having the greater impact.

It's all about signing the right players and managing them correctly but it seems some people already assume Klopp's younger signings will go the same way as Rodgers.

Well actually, his point is very valid, that being we are suffering from a "bedding" in period every season it seems.

Also, you mention that our rivals spending big and only making the  top 4 aren't doing any better than us, but from where I'm sitting, top 4 is much better than us right now (and as of late as well).

Maybe they are making top 4 with ready made players  because they aren't going through the same growing pains as we are and they manage to nick some points where we are dropping some coming up to speed? 

It's just a thought, but maybe  if we spent big AND given we've got the best  manager in the world, we'd likely be running the league and even without spending on any "big name" or "proven" or whatever catchphrase you want to use players, we very  well may still (and should expect to) challenge for the league.

Have we signed anyone decent yet?

I thought having the pull of Klopp would solve all our transfer woes.

THE WINDOW HASN'T OPENED YET!!



YNWA

THE WINDOW HASN'T OPENED YET!!



YNWA

HOW DID WE SIGN KARIUS THEN?!!!!!!

But what you fail to mention is how our rivals that spend big, for example City last season; signed ready made stars in Sterling, De Bruyne and Otamendi but finished in the top 4 by goal difference

City had a poor season last year and the players you mention with the obvious exception of Du Broyne were not so far a success. That said they did get into the top four, they did win a cup and they did reach a Champions League semi final. Equally they did win the league twice in the last four seasons, and they did do it with the help of big money ready made quality signings such as Yaya Toure, David Silva, Vincent Kompany, Edin Dzecho, Sergio Aguerro etc. There is the chance that players such as Godjungen and the like will fail this season too, but if you buy players who everybody knows is quality before they arrive, the chance of failure is slimmer.
 

Man United, spend even bigger on Di Maria, Rojo and generally whatever player they can get their hands on who are as it goes, ready made/proven players but yet they are struggling just as much as us. So your point about buying younger players and needing time to bed in whilst our rivals spend big on proven players doesn't really have any substance to it because they are not really any better off by doing so.

Man Utd had a poor season too. That said, they did finish three places above us in the league and they did win a cup. They did it with the help of previous big money ready made signings such as Rooney, Mata, etc etc. The last time they won the league they did so directly as a result of buying Robin Van Persie, they are about to buy Ibrahimovic, etc etc.

 

Spurs signed Dele Alli from MK Dons and he has been terrific for them, who's to say that the young players we've signed won't have the same outcome?

Deli Alli had a fantastic season. It happens sometimes, which is why nobody (as far as I can see anyway) is advocating buying no young players with potential. What I am advocating is supplementing those purchases with players who are PROVEN at the highest level. That doesn't even necessarily mean buying them, it does though mean we would have to pay their wages. Most top players know they are top players and want paying as such.



The argument though that because Di Maria didn't make it (Sebastian Veron anyone as well?) we should avoid signing proven quality players is ridiculous. That Vardy lad had a good season last time, are we now to concentrate our scouting solely on Fleetwood Town or Halifax because they have produced a player? No, when some of us talk of signing proven known quality it is to tip the odds slightly back in our favour. Of course if you sign Lionel Messi (AND I'M NOT ADVOCATING WE DO!!!!!!) there is a chance he could not really cut it. The chances though are smaller than if we sign a bloke out of Valencias reserves. If we continually shop in the second tier of players which are available (at best) we are occasionally going to get lucky (Can, Coutinho and the like). Usually though we won't get lucky (pick any one of fifty over the last ten years). If to supplement that strike rate we show a willingness to a) not pay top wages and b) cash in on whichever player we have got lucky with, we will IMHO ALWAYS be finishing in the same spot in the league.

Yes indeed, that is a question, who will be sold,?
I don't think we're in a position that we need to sell to buy, so for me those sold will perhaps give us a indication of the type of quality Jürgen is striving for,

Aside from the dead wood, the retiree's and the already goner's, it will be interesting to see who else will be surplus,
will Pirlo still be here, Lucas, Ibeeeeeyyy, Benteke, Markovic?, that's 5 with huge question marks against their names,
Maybe we can add Hendo or even Milner although I think those two are safe for this window,
So of those questionable 5, will we replace all 5 or perhaps only 3 but with better quality and versatility,
I don't think we will see much more tooing and froing as perhaps as been suggested it's more about the kind of quality brought in as replacements,
We have 11 more click bait days left before we can take speculation's more seriously, even then I think until the Euro's have finished nothing can be regarded as solid targets.


YNWA

The first part Billy - will Allen, Lucas, Ibe, Benteke and Markovic still be here?  At this stage we have no idea but going onto the second part if they leave will they be replaced, you could say 2 of them have been or will be soon.

We've already signed one midfielder and are looking to bring in Zielinski, another midfielder, sometime this week.

We're also looking at Mane, a pacey, wide attacker so that's Ibe and/or Markovic place taken.

Benteke is the only one, if sold, that I don't think will be replaced, as in another no9 arriving. 

If I had to guess I'd say probably Allen and Benteke will go.  Allen because he's into the last year of his contract and so far has not been offered or even been in discussion for a new one.  Benteke isn't suited to a Jürgen team and still has plenty of value as despite him not really lighting up our attack, he still managed to score at a 1 in 2 rate.

As for Lucas, Ibe and Markovic I think they'll stay.  We've only 3 senior CBs now if Skrtel leaves so he can cover there and with Can, Hendo, Milner and Allen all at the Euros, none of them will be ready for the Arsenal game, if Jurgens pre season comments are correct.  That means we'll only have Stewart, Grujic, Brannagan and Chirivella as our CM options if Lucas leaves.

Ibe and Markovic are still very young and can still improve.  They've a fair bit of senior experience to cover Mane, or whichever wide attacker arrives, otherwise if they both go we're down to using Ojo, Kent and/or Canos.  Yes there's Lallana to play there too but he lacks pace, so for the games we need that attribute or need to switch it up with subs Ibe and Marko are our best options.

Of course none of that could happen and we sell the lot and bring in some super duper star quality that everyone can have a good old virtual w*nk over   

What I am advocating is supplementing those purchases with players who are PROVEN at the highest level.

Like who Mick?  What is proven?  What is "at the highest level"?

I know I keep asking these questions but nobody has yet been able to answer it.

Firstly let's decide what "age" we should be looking.  I'll go with 21 and under but do a summary for those aged 22 and 23 as they're still considered "young with potential".

When you put something in quotes debs it's usually a good idea to make sure the person you're quoting actually said it. I never mentioned "young with potential" at all. I said "players for the future" who we can "develop into stars". You've then gone "I'll go with 21 and under but do a summary for those aged 22 and 23 as they're still considered "young with potential"." and i can't help thinking we are talking about different things here.

Look.

1. I don't care how old the player is.

2. I don't care how much money the player costs.

3. I don't care if the player is a "big name".

4. I don't care how much wages a player gets.




What I am talking about is us signing players (a couple of them, no more although it would be nice) who are proven at the highest level, regularly feature in the Champions League, have experience of a big club, are regulars in their national team etc. Players who would get pretty close to if not getting into Juventus's team, Paris Saint Germaine's team, Dortmunds teams etc. I'm not necessarily advocating signing blokes who would walk into Barcelonas first team or Madrids or Bayerns as that's cloud cuckoo land and I know that, but I'm talking proper players who instantly improve us (in theory anyway, I know there's always a chance ANY player won't work).   

Like who Mick?  What is proven?  What is "at the highest level"?

I know I keep asking these questions but nobody has yet been able to answer it.

Higuain?

Like who Mick?  What is proven?  What is "at the highest level"?

I know I keep asking these questions but nobody has yet been able to answer it.

OK some names. You'll have to forgive my ignorance as I don't watch much foreign football, but I'll throw some names in there for you starting with a couple who are based in English football. I'm not necessarily advocating we sign any of these players, I'm saying THESE TYPE of players.

You need a holding midfielder? Eric Dyer. IMHO Englands best player at the Euros so far. Marco Veratti. Fabulous player and lynchpin of the PSG midfield.

You need a goalie? Frazer Forster, IMHO the best English goalkeper in England.

You need a left back? Filipe Luis, Athletico Madrid. Danny Rose, Tottenham.

You need a creative midfielder? Ross Barclay, career has stalled but will be a top player. Isco. Rarely features at Madrid but a top player, ditto Luca Modric (although he features) and James Rodriguez, and the other young Craotian fella who's name escapes me.

Striker? Morata from Juventus/Real Madrid.


etc etc etc etc. Looking for "proven"? Look at the best club competition in the world (Champions League) and pick the players who play regularly in that. You won't go far wrong.