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      General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread

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      Diego LFC
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35765: Jun 17, 2018 01:43:11 pm
      De Gea, Ter Stegen, Neuer, Buffon, any World Class or Top Goal keeper you can name have made mistakes, some more costly than others. Now Imagine if the club that they had made those mistakes for would have sold them on, as you put it
      "Then why bother with Goal keepers"...

      Had it been in the group stages people would have been upset, but they would have also not reacted in the manner that they are currently doing. It was because it was The Champions League Final, that's were the hurt really lies

      I never said we shouldn't bother about goalkeepers, I'm saying the exact opposite - that a fuckup by a world class goalkeeper says absolutely nothing about the fuckups of our terribly mediocre one. I was just extending the silly logic that sees De Gea making a mistake in the World Cup as some sort of vindication for Karius, showing just how absurd it is.

      And yeah, had it been in the group stage, people would surely react differently - they would be comfortable in just saying "the goalkeeper fu**ed up" instead of going all silly in "he threw the ball into Benzema's feet because minutes earlier the right winger was injured", or that "he misjudged an easy long shot from the right wing because the opponent's left back was allowed to run riot".

      Seriously, just listen to yourself, stop making excuses for the inexcusable. If you think Karius is good enough and that the final was just an unfortunate occasion, then fair enough, that's your opinion. Gerrard was good enough for us despite the slip, or the final own goal. But no one ever bothered saying that Gerrard only slipped because of some entirely unrelated incident, or that he scored that own goal as a direct result of an injury to some other player, they just accept that even a club legend can f**k up on occasions.

      Anyway, if you want to talk about Karius in the group stage, I still haven't forgotten the easy free kick he wouldn't stop against Spartak. He started the Champions League campaign poorly and finished with the worst goalkeeping performance in the history of the European Cup final.

      In my opinion we surely need better, and this opinion won't change no matter how many howlers De Gea lets in the World Cup.
      FL Red
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35766: Jun 17, 2018 01:56:37 pm
      I think it’s getting a bit silly how much stick Karius is getting. Yes he made two horrendous mistakes, he also may have been concussed and he also played pretty well leading up to the final, playing I believe the most minutes of any keeper and keeping the most or close to the most clean sheets.

      Our game was lost when Mo went off. We didn’t have suitable options to replace his pace and skill and Madrid were able to contain our attack from there on.

      Had we had Mo the whole game, and had Karius not been concussed I believe he wouldn’t have been the issue we did or didn’t win.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35767: Jun 17, 2018 03:58:59 pm
      Hahahahaha

      So the goalkeeper throwing the ball into the feet of a striker was the direct result of an injury to the right winger?

      Seriously.

      You can waste your time with that ridiculous rhetoric as much as you like, the fact remains that we scored a goal even without Salah and that we lost that match by 2 goals, 2 epic fuckups by a mediocre goalkeeper.

      NO, what I said was that the pressure we came under was as a direct result of losing Salah...

      And as for us scoring, it only happen when Real took their foot off of our throat...

      Don't know which is sadder,the fact that you believing that after losing Salah we still had a chance of winning or you believing that Mane's goal was a result of us re-asserting dominance over Real rather than them sitting back thus we could have won the game
      « Last Edit: Jun 17, 2018 04:10:18 pm by The Real Donavan Ried »
      Diego LFC
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35768: Jun 17, 2018 04:18:47 pm
      NO, what I said was that the pressure we came under was as a direct result of losing Salah...

      And as for us scoring, it only happen when Real took their foot off of our throat...

      Don't know which is sadder,the fact that you believing that after losing Salah we still had a chance of winning or you believing that Mane's goal was a result of us re-asserting dominance over Real rather than them sitting back thus we could have won the game

      Actually, what you said was that "his mistakes were a direct result of the Salah injury". His mistakes, not the pressure. And anyway, if being under pressure is an excuse for gifting two goals to the opposition, then you must think goalkeepers are pointless. When in fact a good goalkeeper is precisely the one that will keep you in the game even when you come under pressure.

      Have I ever said our goal was "a result of us re-asserting dominance over Real"? You're trying to overcomplicate things. Losing Salah was a massive problem for us, but that's football, you don't need to "re-assert dominance" over your opponent to win a game. A corner, a lucky deflection - and that's it, you score a goal. If Real "took their feet off of our throat" once, they could do it again. Wouldn't be the first time ever that a team being dominated would have won a game. But I guess our players should've just walked off the pitch the moment we lost Salah...

      What really is sad is seeing a defeatist Liverpool fan that did not believe in his own team due to an injury to one player, then making excuses for piss poor goalkeeping because this seems to confirm his own opinions that we were doomed to failure.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35769: Jun 17, 2018 05:07:37 pm

      As with Ziyech, I think many Liverpool fans are just hungry for a new Gerrard/Coutinho who'll score some semi-regular goals from outside the box. As exciting as that has been for us, I'd personally just prefer an intelligent and hard-working flair player who'll be a consistent upgrade on our transition and finding ways to get past that pesky damn bus.

      Oxlade-Chamberlain? Was doing that before he got injured and no doubt can be that player agaim when he comes back from injury.

      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35770: Jun 17, 2018 09:10:19 pm
      Leicester and Southampton agree £22m fee for Maddison. I wonder why we are not in for him?
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35771: Jun 17, 2018 09:12:28 pm
      Leicester and Southampton agree £22m fee for Maddison. I wonder why we are not in for him?

      Think we are looking at someone a bit further in their development so we can really compete. Don’t think Maddison is at that level yet, would be a case of developing him like Grujic IMO. Where as he’s probably ready to step into them standard teams.
      Norfolk Red
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35772: Jun 17, 2018 09:26:43 pm
      Well my two penneth. He had more assists in all four top divisions last season in a very poor Norwich side, so at 20 million ish might be worth a punt ?
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35773: Jun 17, 2018 09:43:24 pm
      Actually, what you said was that "his mistakes were a direct result of the Salah injury". His mistakes, not the pressure. And anyway, if being under pressure is an excuse for gifting two goals to the opposition, then you must think goalkeepers are pointless. When in fact a good goalkeeper is precisely the one that will keep you in the game even when you come under pressure.

      Have I ever said our goal was "a result of us re-asserting dominance over Real"? You're trying to overcomplicate things. Losing Salah was a massive problem for us, but that's football, you don't need to "re-assert dominance" over your opponent to win a game. A corner, a lucky deflection - and that's it, you score a goal. If Real "took their feet off of our throat" once, they could do it again. Wouldn't be the first time ever that a team being dominated would have won a game. But I guess our players should've just walked off the pitch the moment we lost Salah...

      What really is sad is seeing a defeatist Liverpool fan that did not believe in his own team due to an injury to one player, then making excuses for piss poor goalkeeping because this seems to confirm his own opinions that we were doomed to failure.

      For us to profit from corners or deflection we would first need to get the ball, sorry... The ball and players in their half, and as we were firmly camped in our half It would not happen so long has they had their foot firmly on out throat...

      There is a massive difference between being defeatist and being realistic....
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35774: Jun 17, 2018 09:47:32 pm
      Well my two penneth. He had more assists in all four top divisions last season in a very poor Norwich side, so at 20 million ish might be worth a punt ?

      Huh? Where did you get that?! he only got 11 assists last season, 8 in the league. In terms of league alone...That’s near on half the amount Snodgrass and Douglas managed, as well as several other players being ahead of him with more than he managed in all competitions? So I’d be inclined to say no to taking a punt at 20mill+.
      « Last Edit: Jun 17, 2018 09:52:11 pm by 7-King Kenny-7 »
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35775: Jun 17, 2018 09:51:11 pm
      Huh?, he only got 11 assists last season, 8 in the league. In terms of league alone...That’s near on half the amount Snodgrass and Douglas managed, as well as several other players being ahead of him with more than he managed in all competitions? So I’d be inclined to say no to taking a punt at 20mill+.

      Maybe it wouldn't be the right decision to take a punt at 20m because we have Woodburn and Wilson ? Perhaps that money is better off used in buying a more established player.
      « Last Edit: Jun 17, 2018 09:55:38 pm by PurpleMonkey »
      Norfolk Red
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35776: Jun 17, 2018 10:22:22 pm
      Huh? Where did you get that?! he only got 11 assists last season, 8 in the league. In terms of league alone...That’s near on half the amount Snodgrass and Douglas managed, as well as several other players being ahead of him with more than he managed in all competitions? So I’d be inclined to say no to taking a punt at 20mill+.


      Yep, sorry about that, was given duff information. Will teach me to find out myself before posting.
      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35777: Jun 17, 2018 11:56:31 pm
      Just sign Pulisic. He isn’t in the WC so you negotiate with him now. Klopp loves him. As an American so do I, but ideally we want him 3 years from now when he is more developed. However, Klopp is a magician and the kid learns quick. I could see him being a really good addition and thriving in Klopps system
      newguy
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35778: Jun 18, 2018 02:04:56 am
      I think it’s getting a bit silly how much stick Karius is getting. Yes he made two horrendous mistakes, he also may have been concussed and he also played pretty well leading up to the final, playing I believe the most minutes of any keeper and keeping the most or close to the most clean sheets.

      Our game was lost when Mo went off. We didn’t have suitable options to replace his pace and skill and Madrid were able to contain our attack from there on.

      Had we had Mo the whole game, and had Karius not been concussed I believe he wouldn’t have been the issue we did or didn’t win.

      I think he did not actually played well, he did ok. I just remember one class save from him, against stoke I think, not sure, but yeah, he is just ok. When we compare him to our rival's keepers, who continue week by week producing world class saves, I think we get the the short end of the stick. I am not saying sack him, but it do believe we really have to upgrade in that position, I would be all for getting a world class gk and paying the extortionate fee atm and roma are asking for their keeper, and sacrificing other positions, with a world class keeper, a playmaker and shaqiri, it'll be enough for me. Just look at how many points De Gea saves for the scum, about 10-12, imagine us with at least 9 points more, we'd be challenging for honors.

      PolarBearRed
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35779: Jun 18, 2018 03:10:41 am
      I think he did not actually played well, he did ok. I just remember one class save from him, against stoke I think, not sure, but yeah, he is just ok. When we compare him to our rival's keepers, who continue week by week producing world class saves, I think we get the the short end of the stick. I am not saying sack him, but it do believe we really have to upgrade in that position, I would be all for getting a world class gk and paying the extortionate fee atm and roma are asking for their keeper, and sacrificing other positions, with a world class keeper, a playmaker and shaqiri, it'll be enough for me. Just look at how many points De Gea saves for the scum, about 10-12, imagine us with at least 9 points more, we'd be challenging for honors.
      I agree it's not a question of bashing the guy or anything, but we need a world class keeper. Unless you are Barcelona in their prime, this position is vital.

      What drives me crazy with Karius and finished me off in the final is not that he is not a top class GK. This I can't blame him for. If anyone is to blame for that its Klopp and the team. Its rather the fact that this guy can't help himself into a no-nonsense game even if wants to.

      On the assumption that he is just an ''okay keeper'', I'm okay with him allowing weak goals, but how many times has he committed stupid mistakes that are directly due to him being unbelievably careless? The two goals he allowed in the CL final are prime examples.

      How many times did he stand with the ball at his feet with defenders pressing for way too long instead of clearing and ended up passing the ball to pressure-drowned Matip, VVD or Lovren only for the pass to be intercepted or them dispossessed at the edge of our box? How many times did pick the ball up, not look around and throw the ball to the defender with an opposition forward pressing him? 

      At the risk of repeating myself, go back and take a look at the Quarter-Final second leg. We know City is going to press us like crazy in order to start a come back as early as possible and we need to get through the first 20 minutes without conceding or it makes the match that much difficult. What does Karius do? Pick the ball up, look around, ignores Lovren (who is completely free) on his right, ignores the safest option which is to punt it into the other half and throws it straight to VVD who is forced into an unnecessary duel with the city player and next thing you know is we conceded within 3 minutes of the starting whistle.

      Type of crap you see at kids level, not in the premier league. And he did that week in week out for a major part of his career at LFC before the second half of the season where he suddenly stopped. He instantly looked much better, not because he was suddenly world class, but because we had been fed so much of his nonsense that it was a breath of fresh air to see him clearing the ball correctly and not trying to start an attack from our final third when our two cbs we closely marked.
      GegenPressClub
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35780: Jun 18, 2018 09:23:37 am
      Oxlade-Chamberlain? Was doing that before he got injured and no doubt can be that player agaim when he comes back from injury.
      Yep, freaking oath. I'm pleased to see at least some feel that way. I'm also one of those who are more than happy with Ox's development under Klopp and recognise how uniquely effective, like Firmino, he can be in our system. He still has some technical limitations, but that's fine if he continues to work hard in the press and take the opportunities when they're available (and when we desperately need him) to run at or past defenders.

      The times we struggled in midfield most last year predominantly involved our incorporation of slow, predictable circulation of the football. Personally, I'm a big fan of possession based football tactics. But once you're dominating more than 65 percent of the possession, it's critical to potentially sacrifice some of that possession in order to change up the speed and directness of your play, otherwise you're dealing with a parked fleet of buses, not just one.

      Man City seem to manage that change of pace well, luring opposing players out more often in order to minimise or weaken the bus parking. Circulation of the football is much faster (but still not reckless) and there is the threat of a killer run or pass from both sides of midfield at any moment, instead of a predictable insistence from Henderson that there is no chance of an opening and so the ball must be passed back to him or a defender only for it to be redistributed back to another attacking player way too slowly.

      Ha and no, I'm not your typical Hendo basher, but do recognise he can at times negatively impact our potential in such ways.

      Ox I think will serve us best against those teams that want to take us on (or at least come to play), where he'll be in a position to explode towards a defensive line after he or a teammate have succeeded in a high press, with the ability to shoot from range or draw a defender and lay off a pass to a forward running free on goal. I think a mid three of him, Fabinho and Keita (plus our front three) will consistently make life hell for any of the top 6 teams who'd dare take our intense counter press on.

      But in games where we are excessively dominating possession (and if the inclusion of Keita and Fabinho doesn't speed up our circulation enough), then we're likely to need a player or two who can use exceptional guile and technique to take players on in midfield in order to draw them out of their excessively defensive positions and create better and more frequent chances for our team.

      Both Fabinho and Keita will actually improve us a lot in that regard when starting counters deeper in our midfield, but a Lallana with fitness concerns is not enough to rely on further up the field when faced with ten defenders to beat in limited space.

      That's why Fekir would've been great in our system. I'd also support other players like Harit and Malcom being brought in to be developed into that role in our system while also providing us cover for Salah and Mane.

      But Ziyech is not one of those, certainly not at the likely 35 mil fee. We mustn't be seduced by luxury aspects of a player's game if what we specifically need most from their role is unlikely of the calibre we require. Considering the Fekir deal sure seemed to be seriously on at some point, it seems likely that Liverpool will be bringing someone in at that role at some point this offseason for us to love or hate haha.
      GegenPressClub
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35781: Jun 18, 2018 09:29:34 am
      Well my two penneth. He had more assists in all four top divisions last season in a very poor Norwich side, so at 20 million ish might be worth a punt ?
      At some point with Milner and Lallana advancing in years, we'll need to bring in another homegrown player or two into our first team squads for PL and CL. I get the feeling though that the club would be looking more towards promoting from within our own youth ranks.

      For 20ish million there are other options that I, and perhaps the club too, feel would be more enticing and better value.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35782: Jun 18, 2018 10:57:21 am
      So apparently Tolisso's dream club is Liverpool.

      Make his dream come true Jürgen. ;D
      FL Red
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35783: Jun 18, 2018 11:10:00 am
      I think he did not actually played well, he did ok. I just remember one class save from him, against stoke I think, not sure, but yeah, he is just ok. When we compare him to our rival's keepers, who continue week by week producing world class saves, I think we get the the short end of the stick. I am not saying sack him, but it do believe we really have to upgrade in that position, I would be all for getting a world class gk and paying the extortionate fee atm and roma are asking for their keeper, and sacrificing other positions, with a world class keeper, a playmaker and shaqiri, it'll be enough for me. Just look at how many points De Gea saves for the scum, about 10-12, imagine us with at least 9 points more, we'd be challenging for honors.



      Sorry, not convinced that Allison is a world class keeper.

      And there aren’t very many of those out there and the ones that are, probably ain’t moving.
      heimdall
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35784: Jun 18, 2018 11:15:06 am
      Sorry, not convinced that Allison is a world class keeper.

      And there aren’t very many of those out there and the ones that are, probably ain’t moving.

      So let stick with the sh*t keeper we have then and just give up on improving, in fact why bother signing anyone, they probably won't come to us anyway, doom gloom, whinge whine.


      Out of interest where would you put Karius in the list of the best Prem keepers?
      Diego LFC
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35785: Jun 18, 2018 11:16:38 am
      For us to profit from corners or deflection we would first need to get the ball, sorry... The ball and players in their half, and as we were firmly camped in our half It would not happen so long has they had their foot firmly on out throat...

      There is a massive difference between being defeatist and being realistic....

      Yep, whatever. The fact remains that without two massive fuckups, the game is 1-1. Not to mention Karius should probably have done better for Bale's first goal as well, it wasn't that far off him.

      But hey, we lost the right winger, so the keeper can do as he likes. Not defeatist at all.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35786: Jun 18, 2018 11:19:07 am
      I think it’s getting a bit silly how much stick Karius is getting. Yes he made two horrendous mistakes, he also may have been concussed and he also played pretty well leading up to the final, playing I believe the most minutes of any keeper and keeping the most or close to the most clean sheets.

      Our game was lost when Mo went off. We didn’t have suitable options to replace his pace and skill and Madrid were able to contain our attack from there on.

      Had we had Mo the whole game, and had Karius not been concussed I believe he wouldn’t have been the issue we did or didn’t win.

      Concussion is only possible excuse for the mistakes in the final. He hadn't played pretty well leading to the final at all, he was at fault for a Man City goal that was disallowed and misjudged a shot against Roma (in a similar way to Bale's 2nd goal in the final) that luckily went into the post. But the team won so everyone was happy to overlook it at the time
      Kopite78
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #35787: Jun 18, 2018 11:22:26 am
      So let stick with the sh*t keeper we have then and just give up on improving, in fact why bother signing anyone, they probably won't come to us anyway, doom gloom, whinge whine.


      Out of interest where would you put Karius in the list of the best Prem keepers?

      To be honest you're the only one it seems who is doom and gloom whinge and whining

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