General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread

Juventus gave Szczesny a lot of game time last year where i think they'll go with him next season, though there was that talk not long ago about getting Donnarumma and have that position locked up for another decade+ the way they did with Buffon.

Juventus gave Szczesny a lot of game time last year where i think they'll go with him next season, though there was that talk not long ago about getting Donnarumma and have that position locked up for another decade+ the way they did with Buffon.

More like szczesny hawkes today

Not reading the rest.

Not surprising, you seldom do when it doesn't agree wholeheartedly with what you believe.

Because I was asking you for your list?

Then I'll respond

You're the one deflecting by saying where you rate him with no actual substance  and then not actually showing any of your thought process.

You give it and I'll respond

I'm not actually defending or attacking Karius here.. I just wanted a bit of substance to your view

I have answered the question in another post, you still haven't. To repeat I see him in the middle of all the keepers, prob just bottom half.

I have answered the question in another post, you still haven't. To repeat I see him in the middle of all the keepers, prob just bottom half.

And I asked you for your 1-20 😞

Not difficult

Don't answer if you don't want to but stop skirting around

So where would you rank Karius in the list of Prem goalkeepers then, just out of interest? From my point of view he'd be in the bottom half. He is an ok keeper but we need an exceptional keeper, especially the way that we play where any goalkeeper will come under increased pressure.

So let me see if I understand this right. You think Ederson, De Gea, Lloris, Courtois, Cech, Pope, Pickford, Schmeichel, and Elliot are all better than Karius? I just want to be clear on this because other than Mignolet, these are the top half Goalkeepers you are suggesting are all better than Karius. Just to point out six of these teams finished lower than us. None of these clubs got further than a European Semi-Final. Four of these clubs didn't even play in Europe, and despite all that, what you're saying is that they all have a better Goalkeeper than Karius?

Not surprising, you seldom do when it doesn't agree wholeheartedly with what you believe.

You clearly have no idea what a good keeper is if you say Mignolet is good, hence why there was no point reading the rest.

And I asked you for your 1-20 😞

Not difficult

Don't answer if you don't want to but stop skirting around

I did answer, scroll back. I said I agreed with another posters list, can't recall who it was.

So let me see if I understand this right. You think Ederson, De Gea, Lloris, Courtois, Cech, Pope, Pickford, Schmeichel, and Elliot are all better than Karius? I just want to be clear on this because other than Mignolet, these are the top half Goalkeepers you are suggesting are all better than Karius. Just to point out six of these teams finished lower than us. None of these clubs got further than a European Semi-Final. Four of these clubs didn't even play in Europe, and despite all that, what you're saying is that they all have a better Goalkeeper than Karius?

Yes they are all better and to the best of my knowledge none of them have singlehandedly lost their team a final.

I did answer, scroll back. I said I agreed with another posters list, can't recall who it was.

I asked for your list from 1 to 20.. yours

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20

Fill that in yeah? Then we can judge your view...Or don't bother and leave it in a long list of hot air from yourself

I asked for your list from 1 to 20.. yours

1
2
3
5
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20

Fill that in yeah? Then we can judge your view...Or don't bother and leave it in a long list of hot air from yourself

I'd like to see 2 lists, one for sweeper keeper and the other a more traditional shot stopper that is more routed to his line.

I'd like to see 2 lists, one for sweeper keeper and the other a more traditional shot stopper that is more routed to his line.

To be fair mate that was one of the points I was going to make when we saw his list because how the team sets up is vital to how a keeper plays to an extent.

However he's hard work and has no substance to his hyperbole so it's unlikely he will provide anything to back up his latest blast of hot air

To be fair mate that was one of the points I was going to make when we saw his list because how the team sets up is vital to how a keeper plays to an extent.

However he's hard work and has no substance to his hyperbole so it's unlikely he will provide anything to back up his latest blast of hot air

The only keeper I can think of that is/was world class at both is, Neuer. Perhaps Kahn too? I remember him coming out and sweeping often, but was also an absolute beast on his line.

The only keeper I can think of that is/was world class at both is, Neuer. Perhaps Kahn too? I remember him coming out and sweeping often, but was also an absolute beast on his line.

Yeah both good shouts.. I think Pepe at his peak was probably the best we have had at the modern way of play for goalkeepers

Goalkeeper is such a tough one to judge fairly.. I mean I'm not protecting Karius, it would be so difficult to do and for me I'd like to see him stay, but bring someone in who can compete with him and if they take their chance take over as number one. Karius did his reputation and his own mindset no good against Madrid and I'm not sure he will ever get to his potential after that. I certainly want us to sign a keeper to compete
But as i said it's a tough position to judge. Look at one example.. our own Simon Mignolet. He was at Sunderland and was rated very very highly (highly enough to get his move) but he was in a side who set up defensively, but who had may be 15-20 shots against them per game.. now from the club point of view they may lose 3-1 and obviously he gets beaten 3 times but he could make 10 saves per game from long shots that make him look better than he is ultimately..
However the  he comes here, we are a better side on the front foot mostly and he may only face 2-3 shots a game here, he has to concentrate with nothing to do for the vast majority rather than in the action constantly.. yet if he makes a mistake here and we lose 2-1 from his 3 shots he's F***ing w*nk.

It's completely different type of goalkeeping and only the best can be ultimately effective at a big club because they have to remove most mistakes, but also perform when they are not in the game for 85% of the game

I think that's one of Karius's main issues personally

The main reason I submitted the list was to highlight just how subjective this all is. What actually makes a good keeper? Is a good keeper for one club necessarily a good keeper for another? What attributes are really most important to Liverpool? What attributes are really most important to us each here when judging keepers, potentially for Liverpool or otherwise? It's a joke!

My list was predominantly a judgement on what I saw last year, and how I felt that keeper would perform for us. That position in my mind was also then altered to certain extents by their greater history of performances, as well as a personal projection of how I think they'll go next year.

So, for example, keepers like Lloris, Begovic and Cech dropped in my mind with their performances this year, while Pope and Dubravka raised theirs with performances and temperament that inspire a positive projection from me. Can't get more subjective than that!

Then there is the fact that I'm clearly looking for different qualities than most of you, and possibly Liverpool too. Many of you judge really highly on shot stopping (particularly of the acrobatic type). Others on one's ability to be a sweeper keeper. For me, I look at other intangibles as possibly even more important.

I mean, does Liverpool face enough challenging shots on target compared to most clubs that require athletic shot stopping to be the most important quality to have? Sure, Karius can make some great reflex saves, but one could also argue that when he has more time he often poorly judges the flight of the ball (often with disastrous consequences). Is this a technical problem or a temperament one in his case? I'm not sure I'm happy to wait for him to overcome it, either way. Is he really that convincing when he rushes up to claim a ball before an advancing attacker as a sweeper keeper. I know I haven't been all that convinced.

What I value more than his debatable positives though, is someone who fills me (and likely his own defenders) with more confidence. We need someone who communicates well and who commands the box. Again, this is subjective, but I personally have no doubt that both Karius and Mignolet suck at this. Not only not close to world class, but very ordinary. As a team that loves to counter attack, but will end up dominating possession and chances for probably 33+ PL games per year now, we're going to be targeted most from set pieces and crosses. If our keepers commanded the box with actions and words, I'd be so much more forgiving of bloopers. So would many other fans, for we'd see the vast improvement in our defence as a solid, collective unit. No more embarrassing goals from corners and free kicks. No more having to witness our defenders (and Hendo/Can) all looking at each other with accusations after an opponent wasn't marked/tracked, or a clearance made, because no one damn talks and demands responsibility to be taken.

Before VVD came we were a hot mess. He has already improved the culture of our defence, but we still have a way to go. TAA and Robbo are great, but despite being positive doers, they are still followers at this stage of their careers. The temperament of Lovren and Karius/Mignolet, however are still liabilities. A strong keeper combined with VVD may just push Lovren to a higher, more consistent standard, but without one, I see us continuing to be vulnerable and error prone to a degree that will still make us challenging Man City a really tough challenge.

We don't need, nor want, Sergio Ramos type players, but we do need some more mongrel and leadership at the back. Our "nice guys" may not come last, but to come first, which is what we're all desperate for here, we need more character. And when I compare Karius to others, he falls well short, and I just can't project him to much better at this stage. I just can't.

What an excellent post. Completely agree. Particularly the bit about having a Keeper who Instills confidence in the defenders in front of him as well as providing leadership and a vocal presence. So mush of that comes from how a keeper performs at set pieces and how they deal with the high ball. Karina always feels like a mistake waiting to happen when opposition teams have thrown bodies forward and ringed the keeper at set plays. And no stats will convince me otherwise. He punches the ball well at times but I've watched him literally bounce off of players (theirs and outs) trying to claim crosses.

It was interesting to read CTFCs critique of Ederson earlier in the thread. My oldest mate in the world is a season ticket holder at City and he says that Ederson was by far the most important signing they made in the summer and single biggest reason for their defensive improvements this year. We need a keeper who can effect a similar change on our own defence if we are serious about jumping into the titles race. It would be absolute folly to proceeed with Karius as the undisputed number 1. He is a couple of early season mistakes away from a nervous breakdown and the footballing equivalent of the yips. Frankly I'm amazed that his advocates can't see the peril in that?

Guys, I have a genuine question I wanted to ask and pardon me if its a bit of a stupid one.

The question is why do we seem to be so restricted in the money we can spend each year compared to our league rivals. I understand teams like Chelsea and City basically have Arab money and Russian oil money, but if I think about a club like Utd, why is their such a gap between the type of money they can shell out and the money we can?

Isn't united a club like us in terms of ownership who makes its money from the selling of shirts, tickets, derived products, etc? I know that in recent years, Utd has been a club with more viewership and fans around the world because of their success, but what is it that draws this huge gap between us and them in terms of the money?

I'd appreciate it if somebody can explain to me the inner works that make us so restricted in terms of the players we can target and the money we can offer.

Edit: I ask this question because I appreciate the savvy scouting of players and basically buying players that none of the big spenders had their eye on and end up having a great player, but I also sometimes would like us to finish off one or two of our problems by simply having the money to buy an Oblak per example.   

 

Guys, I have a genuine question I wanted to ask and pardon me if its a bit of a stupid one.

The question is why do we seem to be so restricted in the money we can spend each year compared to our league rivals. I understand teams like Chelsea and City basically have Arab money and Russian oil money, but if I think about a club like Utd, why is their such a gap between the type of money they can shell out and the money we can?

Isn't united a club like us in terms of ownership who makes its money from the selling of shirts, tickets, derived products, etc? I know that in recent years, Utd has been a club with more viewership and fans around the world because of their success, but what is it that draws this huge gap between us and them in terms of the money?

I'd appreciate it if somebody can explain to me the inner works that make us so restricted in terms of the players we can target and the money we can offer.

Edit: I ask this question because I appreciate the savvy scouting of players and basically buying players that none of the big spenders had their eye on and end up having a great player, but I also sometimes would like us to finish off one or two of our problems by simply having the money to buy an Oblak per example.   

 

One word.

Profit.

The only goalkeepers we haven't been linked with are lev yashin, sylvester stallone, fatty foulkes and billy the fish

Yeah both good shouts.. I think Pepe at his peak was probably the best we have had at the modern way of play for goalkeepers

Goalkeeper is such a tough one to judge fairly.. I mean I'm not protecting Karius, it would be so difficult to do and for me I'd like to see him stay, but bring someone in who can compete with him and if they take their chance take over as number one. Karius did his reputation and his own mindset no good against Madrid and I'm not sure he will ever get to his potential after that. I certainly want us to sign a keeper to compete
But as i said it's a tough position to judge. Look at one example.. our own Simon Mignolet. He was at Sunderland and was rated very very highly (highly enough to get his move) but he was in a side who set up defensively, but who had may be 15-20 shots against them per game.. now from the club point of view they may lose 3-1 and obviously he gets beaten 3 times but he could make 10 saves per game from long shots that make him look better than he is ultimately..
However the  he comes here, we are a better side on the front foot mostly and he may only face 2-3 shots a game here, he has to concentrate with nothing to do for the vast majority rather than in the action constantly.. yet if he makes a mistake here and we lose 2-1 from his 3 shots he's f**king w*nk.

It's completely different type of goalkeeping and only the best can be ultimately effective at a big club because they have to remove most mistakes, but also perform when they are not in the game for 85% of the game

I think that's one of Karius's main issues personally

I get the for and against for Karius and also understand why some have concerns in not going for a sweeper keeper, and yeah, there is a higher risk for a traditional keeper playing in our team....... on paper, but I don't think it's as simple as looking at the piece and paper and saying he won't fit in or he will.

Look at Karius' saves, pretty much all of them are standard for any keeper, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXaQagoxDjk

Then look at his goals conceded (taken from the 2nd half of the season):

Liverpool 2 - 1 Leicester City
Liverpool 2 - 1 Everton
Liverpool 4 - 3 Manchester City
Liverpool 2 - 2 Tottenham Hotspur
Liverpool 4 - 1 West Ham
Manchester United 2 - 1 Liverpool
Crystal Palace 1 - 2 Liverpool
Manchester City 1 - 2 Liverpool
West Bromwich Albion 2 -2 Liverpool
Liverpool 5 - 2 Roma
Roma 4 - 2 Liverpool
Chelsea 1-0 Liverpool

As you can see, the goals conceded and saved wasn't down to having a sweeper or traditional keeper.

Even before watching the highlights of saves and conceded goals, I didn't even recall the need for a sweeper keeper in the defensive aspect.... even when we had world class Migs in goal!

Okay, I get it, Karius is quicker and more suited to Migs in playing a high line, but going back to our second half saves, conceded goals or even full matches, if we played the same high line with, Oblak, Pope, Butland or De Gea, would we not get the same scenario as what we have seen with Karius?

Maybe the biggest difference (having a GK you trust helps too) is the stability and speed of our back 4 that's really allowed us to play a higher line than usual?  Our defensive seems to be quick enough to minimize the space between the back 4 and GK, and as seen on the video of saves and conceded goals, they have nothing to do with sweeping keeping or high lines.

So perhaps a traditional keeper such as, Pope, Oblak, Butland, De Gea wouldn't be such an issue? Yeah, maybe we won't have that extra life that a sweeper keeper could give if someone gets through our defensive high up, but we could gain in other goal keeping areas (Aerially, Shot stopping etc).

As I am writing this, another thing that springs into mind, modern keepers are not as traditional as before, are they? They are asked to sweep more these days, so again, perhaps these "traditional" keepers can work just as effective as a sweeper keeper in our team?

Anyway, I will say this for Karius, his quick distribution and awareness when on the ball are exceptional and has been the biggest difference in the goal keeping aspect.

Look at Karius' saves, pretty much all of them are standard for any keeper, right?

Correct, most saves are standard that every keeper who plays professionally should make, though a few were of the "top class" category. Whether you're a sweeper or a traditional keeper you have to be able to make the saves, that is job #1 for a goalie

Even before watching the highlights of saves and conceded goals, I didn't even recall the need for a sweeper keeper in the defensive aspect..

That's because you are watching saves and goals conceded all of which will be within the same area near the goal. If you watch other videos you will see the role the sweeper keeper plays in the defensive aspect

Maybe the biggest difference (having a GK you trust helps too) is the stability and speed of our back 4 that's really allowed us to play a higher line than usual? Our defensive seems to be quick enough to minimize the space between the back 4 and GK

Seriously? Arnold is not any faster than Clyne was/is, who also happens to be better defensively while Arnold is still prone to some growing pains. Lovren was here already when we were giving up 40-50 goals a season and Van Dijk is hardly known for his speed. At LB Robertson is certainly not faster than Moreno. Speed is a factor, but not the factor for our defense being as good as it was the 2nd half.

Anyway, I will say this for Karius, his quick distribution and awareness when on the ball are exceptional and has been the biggest difference in the goal keeping aspect.

Glad you actually made the effort to recognize this as it has been a marked improvement that has helped our transition and offensive game.

I can't believe people are still debating whether or not we need a new goalkeeper.

Scrolling through the last couple of pages I can't believe I've actually just seen somebody say 'Mignolet isn't awful'.

How short are people's memories? Or how far have your standards dropped?

Mignolet is without doubt the worst goalkeeper I have ever seen in a Liverpool shirt. He should be nowhere near this club.

The very best goalkeepers save you at least half a dozen or so points throughout the season if not double that. Where would united be without de gea? I think it's fair to say they wouldn't be sitting comfortable in second and instead they'd be languishing around fourth.

Mignolet however usually costs us half a dozen or so points a season, if not double that! He is just god damn awful. He can't catch, he doesn't  command his box, he never comes off his line, distribution is dreadful and it's a myth that he's this amazing shot stopper. The saves he makes I would expect any other premiership keeper to make them too.

I can't ever remember leaving the ground thinking how did Mignolet save that today. I can't ever remember leaving the ground thinking Mignolet was man of the match. I can't ever remember leaving the ground thinking if it wasn't for Mignolet we'd have lost that. Instead I'm thinking there we go, yet another f**k up from that clown.

Look. I'm getting a bit sick and tired of the mediocrity around our club and the way it's rubbed off on all of our fans. Simon Mignolet is nowhere near f**king good enough for this football club end of discussion. It's not even up for debate it's pure FACT. None of the clubs around us would touch him with a barge pole!!!  So that's him done. Won't mention him again.

Now I move onto Karius. Ok after a very rocky start to his Liverpool career I was relatively impressed with his performances this season. Without doing anything particularly spectacular, I would describe him as steady, and his performances along with Virgil and Robbo brought a much needed calmness to our back four and we started to keep clean sheets. It was nice. It was refreshing. I'd almost forgotten what it was like to defend well and to have no panic stations at the back.

However, his performance in the final was diabolical. I feel sorry for him because the whole focus of that loss has been made solely on him while a few other players have gotten away with murder, but the point still stands, he choked in our biggest game of the last decade. His lack of experience was there to see and he bottled it.

We simply cannot go into the season with Karius as our number 1. I'm happy for him to remain as cover but I'm sorry I just don't trust him in goal now. How can any of you?  What happens when we're in a big game next season? A domestic cup final? A title decider away at city? Maybe another European cup final?  The fans will always have it in the back of their minds that Karius will slip up, our players will too but even worse, Karius probably will as well.  It's a massive, massive risk and it's one that a club of our size just cannot afford to take. At the end of the day, he cost us number 6.

Signing a new number 1 is absolutely crucial. Its essential and it has to be our number one priority. I agree that we shouldn't just sign anyone so butland for example can jog on, but that doesn't mean we should just settle for Karius either.  We HAVE to bring somebody in.

I get the for and against for Karius and also understand why some have concerns in not going for a sweeper keeper, and yeah, there is a higher risk for a traditional keeper playing in our team....... on paper, but I don't think it's as simple as looking at the piece and paper and saying he won't fit in or he will.

Instead of looking just at saves, look at the entire skillset and how it helps our overall defensive performances while also contributing to our offense through quick distribution and transition.

Look at the punching/catching the ball piece and see the huge difference between what Karius does in those plays vs. what Migs often used to do coming up and just flapping the ball. He came out confidently and either punched or caught the ball. We just saw a 60-80M rated Allison planted at his line in the first game of the World Cup giving up a tying goal. Also, at the 1-minute mark, we see Karius grab the ball and throw a dart out to midfield to start a counterattack.

His long passing is also pretty good and often hits his target or at the very least gives our player a 50/50 chance to get the ball.

Karius is also very good at making himself big when 1:1 against a player, like against Spurs and Palace, but that type of play is not going to show up in most "best saves" highlight reels.

Now look at his runs off the line and you'll see why a sweeper keeper plays a big role for us. On long balls, our defense can let the ball go and take a passing position because Karius is there to get the ball, whether it be by playing it or just catching it at the top of the box. This not only reduces scoring chances against us that can lead to goals, but maintains possession of the ball and is a reason why our defense improved in the 2nd half. This is a BIG improvement for us and why Karius fits our system very well. With a traditional goalie, like Mgs, the same ball can become a footrace resulting in a scoring opportunity, a goal, or simply extended possession for the other team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLKb4TTsHo4

Giving his defense confidence is not just by making the save, but also being in sync with them and working as a unit and having an understanding with each other and knowing where they're going to be and trust they'll be there and do their job.

In a simple game like against Maribor you see where, when under any kind of pressure, how much the defense likes to use Karius almost like an extra field player who'll just re-distribute it to the open man and work as a unit.

Lastly, i had concerns about Karius' ability to recover from the CL game, but these professional athletes have a mental fortitude that the regular person does not, and that is partly why they are at that level. Plus, as i have seen so many other goalies make complete F**k ups as well, i figured if, for example, a player like Ter Stegen, who is viewed as a top goalie, can continue playing well after his share of F**k ups, so can Karius.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7QLFs-yaTg