General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread

Thanks for sharing, that's really interesting and I'm curious to read more.

But I'm looking at this and I'm seeing some very simple descriptive statistics displayed in a smart fashion, but not exactly what I'd call advanced stats? I mean, % of clean sheets is hardly even a measure of goalkeeper performance but more of the team as a whole. I guess the ones that might be more advanced are the likes of Shot Diff and Distribution Quality so I'd definitely be curious to understand those.

I'm not convinced by your argument that Karius is "better" in "every other aspect" though. You cast doubts over Oblak's shot stopping abilities by hinting that those may not be "him" but "the system he plays", however you don't seem to apply the same logic to Karius. If you're asked to play with a higher line and come to collect/punch the ball or clear the line in more advanced positions, then you're bound to have higher numbers in those - and a higher success rate - than if you're not generally asked to do so, but may only come forward when your system has failed and you have to come up in riskier situations as a last resort.

Stuff like counting the number of punches and then dividing it by 90 minutes is hardly advanced statistics, and it seems to me to be *much* more reflective of a team's tactics than a consistent overperformance in shot stopping ability as displayed by the likes of Jan Oblak and De Gea. I don't particularly see any reason why it is assumed that a goalkeeper can't adapt to playing in a more proactive system, and to me there seems to be a whole overestimation of the different styles of play when it suits the argument. Goalkeepers have evolved drastically in the past few decades but their scope of play is still the most limited of all football positions.

As for Klopp's previous choices, I have no idea who was his goalkeeper in Mainz, but I have never particularly looked at Weidenfeller as a proactive sweeper keeper, and it did take him over 2 years to send Mignolet to the bench. So I don't know what that says about his preferences to be honest (unless Weidenfeller was in fact a different player than I seem to recall). If rumours are to be believed anyway, he's actually looking for someone better than Karius...

You can find a Premier League comparison in his player thread I put up a couple of weeks ago. The stats are taken directly from the official Premier League website so are in the public domain for scrutiny.

The "i want Karius out at all costs" crew see a goalie playing for a defensive team protected by a deep back 4 and think "see? he IS better!" but in reality the team needs to be very careful on how to they judge these players that are protected by a defense-first set up and constantly have a deep 4, or 5, playing right in front of them. Playing for Liverpool would be like a total different game for them and we cannot afford to make a move and be the wrong one.

Because you're quoting Mags who is quoting me, I'd assume you're implying I'm one of the "out at all costs" crew (great name, by the way).

At all costs? No.

But thank you for the scouting tip. I don't think I've mentioned a name in here as a potential signing though, let alone someone who plays in front of two banks of four (like a Nick Pope, for example).

I want us to improve. Keeper is the obvious position for us to immediately do so. Someone highly proficient with their feet as they are with their hands would be ideal. I don't know who that could be but in my opinion, none of our current options offer that - by a long way.

Why is it worthy of being lumped in to a "crew" for thinking this way?

From stats guru Colin Trainor (@colintrainor) on Twitter:

From stats guru Colin Trainor (@colintrainor) on Twitter:

Any idea where he got those from mate? Would love to see those for other keepers

Is Thomas Strakosha any good?

We're heavily linked with him today.

From stats guru Colin Trainor (@colintrainor) on Twitter:

I’d love to replace Karius with one of the two best keepers in the world. But they aren’t really available are they?  Now maybe dig up the stats of some of the keepers we might actually be able to afford or who might be available. I’d be interested to see their charts and see if they are worth the upgrade.

From stats guru Colin Trainor (@colintrainor) on Twitter:

Karius only played for six months - half the number of games De Gea did. You have to halve his score last year to get a direct comparison. That takes his number of goals conceded to 12.5 to Karius' 13. Half a goal between them, statistically speaking. If you want accurate numbers it has to be broken down to a game on game basis and even then there are factors that cannot be demonstrated statistically such as environmental conditions (wind or the pitch condition), how well the defence performed on the day, the quality of opposition faced not to mention how the player felt. Is Karius the best Keeper in the world? No, but the best Keepers in the world are at the best Clubs in the world and entirely unavailable. So if you look at the next tier down, is he the best in that group? You can make a damn good case for him being so.

https://twitter.com/optajoe/status/995992937245929472?s=21

It's a stats wankfest on here

It's a stats wankfest on here

Stats are all well and good and can be used to prove almost any point of view but I think with a keeper its more about the confidence they instil, for example with De Gea you just feel very confident that he will have full command of his area, cope easily with crosses and have a damned good chance to prevent a goal even when one on one with the striker. Can any of you seriously say the same about Karius?
If we had a keeper like De Gea I really feel we could challenge for the league, who that keeper is I don't know but if its Allison or Oblak then I'd break the bank to get them as they'll be worth every penny.

It's a stats wankfest on here

You love it really 

Any idea where he got those from mate? Would love to see those for other keepers

He has a stats website he runs. He did them himself, I believe.

I’d love to replace Karius with one of the two best keepers in the world. But they aren’t really available are they?  Now maybe dig up the stats of some of the keepers we might actually be able to afford or who might be available. I’d be interested to see their charts and see if they are worth the upgrade.

He did Cech and Fabianski, too.

I’m on my phone so can’t send images but check them out on his Twitter.

Fabianski’s stats are very good for the past four seasons. Cech was excellent before last season.

You love it really 

Those diagrams were pretty

Yawn. Stats are so boring and do not paint the full picture, they can be manipulated to suit any argument as they are not definitive when used to define all the characteristics of a goalkeeper.

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have come out to sweep instead of staying on his line?

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have claimed a ball from a free kick or corner but opted to stay on his line?

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have commanded his defenders to push out if lying too deep or drop back if too high, but instead did nothing?

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have caught the ball instead of parrying it into the path of an opponent?

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have thrown the ball out wide instead of kicking it long?

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have caught the ball instead of punching it?

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have come out for a cross instead of staying on his line?

I think you'll find the answer to most of those questions is no, they don't.

Yawn. Stats are so boring and do not paint the full picture, they can be manipulated to suit any argument as they are not definitive when used to define all the characteristics of a goalkeeper.

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have come out to sweep instead of staying on his line?

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have claimed a ball from a free kick or corner but opted to stay on his line?

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have commanded his defenders to push out if lying too deep or drop back if too high, but instead did nothing?

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have caught the ball instead of parrying it into the path of an opponent?

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have thrown the ball out wide instead of kicking it long?

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have caught the ball instead of punching it?

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have come out for a cross instead of staying on his line?

I think you'll find the answer to most of those questions is no, they don't.

Does your opinion matter as opposed to Jürgen Klopps ?

Answer is the same 😃

Yawn. Stats are so boring and do not paint the full picture, they can be manipulated to suit any argument as they are not definitive when used to define all the characteristics of a goalkeeper.

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have come out to sweep instead of staying on his line?

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have claimed a ball from a free kick or corner but opted to stay on his line?

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have commanded his defenders to push out if lying too deep or drop back if too high, but instead did nothing?

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have caught the ball instead of parrying it into the path of an opponent?

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have thrown the ball out wide instead of kicking it long?

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have caught the ball instead of punching it?

Do they show the amount of times Karius should have come out for a cross instead of staying on his line?

I think you'll find the answer to most of those questions is no, they don't.

I imagine those stats exist somewhere

Always thought that football is really hard to make stats for. It's just so simple and the virables are too many.

Stats in sports like baseball and cricket can paint a picture but not in football.

For instance in moderen football even the positions are loosely defined. They aren't as they used to be.
You have liquid formations, wingers that cut inside to shoot or classic winger who cross.
Wingers who are more defensive oriented because the team have attacking wing backs. Wingers who are playing as strikers and so on.

Then you have different leagues, refs and so on.
I too like to see some stats but I never think that you can judge a player out from only stats. Take firmino. He wouldnt look worldclass in stats but I know he is a worldclass player because I watch him play regularly.

Oblak rarely comes out to catch a ball, according to the numbers only 5-6% of the time, compared to Karius' 15% (again, it depends on the system their team plays). Oblak tries to catch far less, so the odds of him failing to do so or having to punch, are far lower than for Karius. Oblak only comes when he is 100% sure

So you're saying Oblak's decision making is better? Sign him up.

A friend is telling me Kovacic is likely to leave Real Madrid this summer. Look, a midfield trio of Fabinho, Keita and Kovacic would be F***ing incredible. Make it happen!

A friend is telling me Kovacic is likely to leave Real Madrid this summer. Look, a midfield trio of Fabinho, Keita and Kovacic would be f**king incredible. Make it happen!

We would be stupid not to go for him if he is available!!! Everytime I have seen him play for Real, I have always been impressed. A very good ball carrier, fit, can play in tight spaces , stong and agile. Can play 6, 8 and 10 too, pretty much a complete midfielder.

A friend is telling me Kovacic is likely to leave Real Madrid this summer. Look, a midfield trio of Fabinho, Keita and Kovacic would be f**king incredible. Make it happen!

If true I really hope Lovren has a talk with him and also can recommend him to the boss. In Croatian media there are few Italian links and apparently Mourinho wants him as well. But knowing his style of play, he should prefer us .

Anyone seen the Asensio rumours on Twitter saying we have bit 180 million euros. Rumours come out of the blue a bit like the last transfer.

Anyone seen the Asensio rumours on Twitter saying we have bit 180 million euros. Rumours come out of the blue a bit like the last transfer.

We have a better chance of signing Messi.