I think the system in it's current execution would fall on it's arse when, as you rightly say, Mane doesn't play, but in my opinion (never said it's a fact) also when Firmino doesn't play. Defensively, it also comes a bit short when one of our first eleven #8's is missing (Lallana, Wijnaldum) because as we saw, Can just isn't up to the required standard and has been a liability. That's one of the main worries / criticisms I have with Klopp now. Our first eleven is nearly finished to play Klopp's style, but the alternatives aren't yet what they're supposed to be and when we have injuries to key players, we look a different team.
I didn't mean to and it was never my intention to do so. My sincerest apologies if I did come across like that.
I can't really add too much to this Danzel, because I basically agree with it - if you get my drift. I honestly believe we'd lose the industry and workload from Firmino which obviously does prop up our attacking quintet in a roundabout way. However, what you'd lose in work-rate I think could essentially be replaced with guile, movement and goals if a proper striker were in situ. You would lose that energy and press, but the press only seems to be optimised against bigger teams anyway, who aren't afraid to come out a bit and have a go. Sure, it would therefore change the dynamic but look at United's game in Moscow for example compared to ours and there's the difference IMO. And no, I'm not advocating a player like Lukaku as I don't really like big cumbersome forwards personally, but your Sturridge, Jesus & Aguero types definitely.
Never said he was. I said we could improve on him and even mentioned some players who are more #9's / more clinical than he is and that would be a massive improvement on Firmino in the current system. It's not only about the dropping deep, it's about everything else he offers. Not too many players around who can offer close to the same in terms of workrate and link up play and still be clinical in front of goal. I'd swap Firmino for Jesus or Dybala straight away for example.
First and last time I saw that Jesus (the Citeh one right?), was when we got mauled by them this season. And yes, I'd swap him in a heartbeat to. Cracking looking little player and that is the ilk IMHO we need. But going back to what Firmino brings, yes we know he brings work rate and helps his team mates out with assists, but the other day you implied rightly that strikers are generally selfish and play for themselves but wrongly offer little else other than goals.
Mick posted these stats, here is the top three goal scorers in the league currently, look at their assists:
78 mins per goal
467 mins played
6 Goals scored
Álvaro Morata Chelsea
76 mins per goal
457 mins played
Romelu Lukaku Man Utd
90 mins per goal
540 mins played
6 Goals scored
Now look at Firmino:
230 mins per goal
460 mins played
2 Goals scored
Even Jesus, who hasn't an assist to his name has got himself 4 goals in less minutes than Firmino, the same as Harry Kane:
Gabriel Jesus Man City
82 mins per goal
327 mins played
4 Goals scored
Frankly, his output isn't really comparable, especially when you consider the 'attack' he is part of. He hasn't got more assists than the top 3 strikers, and he hasn't got the goals either.
Yes and both Sterling and Suarez (and the Sturridge from that season, you can't compare him to the current one) are perfect players for our system and I'd have both of them here in a heartbeat (if Sterling hadn't been such a c**t of course). I'm not against someone more clinical than Firmino or more 'striker' than Firmino. Not at all. I'm just looking for someone who fits the current formation / system rather than bringing in Lukaku for example and having to switch our style of play.
I wouldn't bring in Lukaku either Danzel. Even though Sturridge isn't quite the same 'player' he was back then, people wrongly believe his pace is the be all and end all to his game. It isn't. Strikers don't need the pace many believe they need you look at players like Rush, Linekar, Shearer, or even Sheringham etc. They were never speed merchants, and even Owen in his later years lost that burst of pace that was initially key to his game, but he was able to modify his game somewhat because (he) strikers still have the instinct, movement, awareness and the ability to finish to carry a considerable threat.
Given that Jürgen hasn't gotten rid of Sturridge and seems for now to be putting a little bit of faith in him, at least by keeping him on at the club, then he may as well give Sturridge (who is a proven quality goalscorer) the time (especially when Firmino isn't on top of his own game), the opportunity to re-modify his game and gather an understanding with players like Mane and Salah.
For me, it's worth a go. Nothing gained noting lost. But it's pretty much sacrilege around here nowadays for calling out Firmino, and discussing the option of Sturridge in the team because some petty people are more worried about their 'face' on this forum than the team they support. And as such, people are hounded and abused for opinions that go against the grain that the circle of friends on here have tried to push.
I agree (for the biggest part), which is why I'm completely in favour of Sturridge getting game time in this kind of games and why I also expect him to start this weekend against Newcastle.
Ha didn't see this. Well yes, we agree but then I honestly doubt Sturridge will start against Newcastle - that's my problem with this. I think Jürgen will revert to his trusted front three and include Firmino, who to me, seems to be one of the only players who doesn't get rotated in and out the team, for good or bad. And I personally, see it as a wasted opportunity in not trying Sturridge' He's happy to rotate the defence and midfield to the point of becoming dizzy but when it comes to a misfiring forward, who really isn't a forward
and a misfiring creator the status quo remains, and I find that frustrating.
Well yes, he is being played more as a #10 in our system already anyway and as you suggest, I don't think he'd do bad in the #8 role for us either with him having been even a defender early on in his career. My only worry there is that he tends to be a bit wasteful in posession from time to time.
Good point about the possession that is noticeable.
Of course there is more than one way to skin a cat and I do not 'strictly adhere to what Klopp does here'. What I try to do is think in terms of what he's looking for and how he plays / sees the game rather than wanting him to do something that doesn't fit or wanting him to be someone who he's not. I have been critical of Klopp before and I have been dumbfounded by some of his decisions. I do not have an agenda, never will have.
I understand how you think, that you want to understand what he's looking for. Fair enough. We all watch the game and contrary to some recent claims on here are therefore privy to the display we see come matchday. So, when I see that something isn't working, where you're trying to understand what he's looking to do; I look, or think to myself 'what is the alternative', sometimes alternatives aren't needed where time will fix it, but generally I look to see what can be improved upon, if for example a Plan A: Mane-Firmino-Salah, isn't working properly or tuned right at a specific point in time I think try the more 'regressive-old fashioned-English (heaven forbid!)- orthodox' approach and stick a striker back into the middle of that.
Anyway, nice chatting with you, it makes a nice change to converse with someone who is open to others' views, without trying to shut them down as being 'this or that'.