Liverpool v Spurs - Post Match Discussion

Lets put it this way... apart from hammering Derby we have not played any games to convince us that we will be title challengers!

Aston Villa away win - Only just, last minute free kick from Steven Gerrard. We were not the better team either.

Chelsea home draw - Ok we deserved this match but Chelsea were unbelivably poor, our chances were not clear ones though.

Sunderland away win - They pinned us back for majority of the game, we shouldn't let a team like Sunderland dominate possesion.

Derby home win - Against the worst team in the Prem, enough said!

Pompey away draw - How we didn't lose this is a mystery! Pompey were all over us!

Brum home draw - This was a sloppy game that again we didn't deserve to win. Brum played well.

Wigan away win - Wigan had the better chances than us, they could of won even but ended up losing.

Spurs home draw - A poor Spurs side dominated a large majority of the game and had the clearer chances. We were lucky that the ref was a Liverpool fan!


Apart from beating Derby we have not played convincing Premiership elect football!

Liverpool showed they fight till the end
can't say that about some of there fans?

ra ra rafa your valuation of liverpool stinks

For doubters out there watch this video(I'd wish I could of put it on here)  

http://www.bebo.com/FlashBox.jsp?FlashBoxId=3666996319

                          or
http://ie.youtube.com/results?search_query=liverpool+videos+pride+passion+belief

It's the first video

Watch it and get off Rafa's back !!

Good Video - but, don't we need to win the league?

Thats 10 wins in a row, we did that in Benitez's 2nd season when he didn't have the squad to rotate week in week out. Proves rotating is killing us!

Fed up how so many threads end up talking about rotation with so many myths, short-sightedness and lack of memory.

Can I remind you that one of the overlooked reasons for rotation is injury.

2007 October 5th      Fabio Aurelio       Calf/Shin Injury
2007 September 20th    Xabi Alonso    Metatarsal Fracture
2007 September 20th    Daniel Agger    Metatarsal Fracture
2007 September 17th    Momo Sissoko    Leg
2007 September 17th    John Arne Riise    Groin Strain
2007 September 10th    Steve Finnan    Knee Injury
2007 August 26th    Jamie Carragher    Broken Rib
2007 August 26th    Sami Hyppia    Broken Nose
2007 August 20th    Steven Gerrard    Ankle/Foot Injury

Taken from here.

I've removed Harry Kewell from this list; he was on it twice for essentially the same injury.

Add international duty, European games, and the odd cup game, let alone poor performances and players being dropped, it should not surprise anyone that there have been a lot of team changes.

Saw first half but not second. Disappointing result. We were well-worth a half-time lead but the equaliser was a sucker punch, and then they went and did it again!

Radio commentators were saying Gerrard was looking like he was carrying an injury (?) He was unlucky not to score in the first half, but apart from that, from what else I saw and heard, he was a pale version of his usual self; which is what I thought on Wednesday. There is something wrong with that guy, whether it's mental, physical or a bit of both, but if it is just bad form, he's not alone, and that means more selection headaches for the boss.

Mascherano man of the match?

We didn't start to play footbal until we are 1 goal down, as usual, that's the fact of the matter. Pennant is horrible today, can't do a thing right. He's so used to hanging around the half way line doing nothing except the back passes and that makes marking him easy and to break down our attack. Are we so blind not to see that opposition  teams pushes up on the right where Pennant is because they know too well Pennant doesn't have the pace and when he gets the ball just force him to the by-line and he couldn't do any harm, if u try hard enough u may be able to snatch the ball from him. His crosees are horrible, even Finnan can cross better. Mr. Rafa, if u ever put him on the teamsheet in future pls. get him to go through an intensive training on crossing and make sure he parks himself high up in the field. Can't our Rafa sees that? Yet week in week out he plays him in the middle of the park. Mr. Rafa, Pennant has been given enough opportunity to prove himself and he had failed time and again pls off load him comes January and get someone quality on the wing with pace and u'll see the improvement in the results. Oh, btw pls don't forget our left wing as well. Pls. don'r splash the cash on future potential stars when u can;t even get it right now.

We never really play attacking football yet knocking the ball from one flank back to the midfield and to the other side of the flank and most probably back to the defenders. There're no tactics deployed to penetrate the opposition defence from the middle which makes the opposition defence having a holiday most of the time. To start with and it can be clearly seen, so far, we never had our midfield and strikers linked up effectively to do that. Mr. Rafa, if u ever think that u'll win the PL by deploying such tactics,you are wrong. Our build-up to an attack is extremly slow unlike the teams above us in the league who plays 1-2-3 passes and they're threathening the opposition goal.

Look at how those team above us play and how we played and we could already see the difference. I don't think we have players who're by far inferior to them, it's just the wrong tactics deployed and the sense of urgency to win games is sorely lacking.

In summary, i believe we have the quality players in the teams, just that Mr. rafa got it wrong tactically and did not move and attack fast enough.

What ever happened to the 'In Rafa We Trust' phrase?

Arsenal are dissapearing into the horizon JD, but there is no reason why none of those teams can't bottle it.

One word to sum up tonights match....fustrating!!!!
We started off good, and we got worse as the game went on...
Voronin was our best player by far....constantly chased, and even ran back to the defence sometimes to win the ball.
Our defence is definitely missing the calmness and composure of danny agger....massive loss!!!
Like i said about our midfield, xabi alonso, whilst not playing to his best this season, we still miss him...mascha is not even close to xabi's class....we need that holding playing infront of the back four.....i cant even stress how much we need him right now, when is he due back???
Stevie G is lacking that hunger and passion that hes known for....he's lacking that inspirational impact that he has on games....
I cant believe how shakey our defence looked, and how poorly we played as a team in the second half....quite fustrating....yossi is growing on me, and is a fantastic bench players....
Riise...far out...no comment...

Another thing ive noticed....our defencive man-marking isnt close enough....the goal we conceeded vs marseille, carragher was about one metre behind the striker and gave him alot of time to turn on the ball, instead of being "touch-tight" as they say. The same occurred tonight on many occassions, our defence doesnt man mark tight enough....our defenders shouldnt be standing one metre behind their strikers.....

ive noticed....our defencive man-marking isnt close enough....the goal we conceeded vs marseille, carragher was about one metre behind the striker and gave him alot of time to turn on the ball, instead of being "touch-tight" as they say. The same occurred tonight on many occassions, our defence doesnt man mark tight enough....our defenders shouldnt be standing one metre behind their strikers.....

That happens when the defender is concerned about pace; their lack of it or the striker having more. The defender drops off, as otherwise if they get too close and the ball is played over the top or ahead for the attacker to run onto, he will just use pace to go by and get clean through. Dropping off counteracts that and means that the attacker still has to beat the defender. Trouble is, as you say, it means that the defender is less likely to be close enough to win the first ball if it is played to feet, and can allow the attacker time to play the ball; but at least he has to earn his way through as opposed to being gifted it.

Got back from the match around an hour ago, so I've time to reflect on another 2 points dropped.

The way I saw the match was, a good positive start from the Reds, and scoring a deserved goal.
Then we wasted chances to kill off the game.
Too many players want too much time to decide what there trying to do. Every credit to Spurs, who hunted the play down and got the ball on many occasions.

The two Spurs goals, were a joke from our defence.
Every credit goes to Keane who had the desire and will to get into the position to score and took his goals well.
It was just simple football, a high ball over our defence and leaving a one on one with Reina.

At least today, we tried for an equaliser, and who knows a winner if we could of got that goal back earlier.

In my honest opinion -
Gerrard - not been himself since his injury and England duty.
Carragher - I still feel he is unfit. I'm sorry but rib / lung injuries take longer than the 2 weeks he was out for. These sort of injuries can take months to fully recover, and personally he needs that recovery time.

Todays man of the match from me was Voronin.
He ran his socks off today, and made at least 2 goal saving challanges in our box. Took his goal well, and defended from the front.

It shouldnt be a pace issue when their striker has their back to the goals, and has enough space to turn and shoot...
You only drop off if your on the wing, and jockying an opponent...not if your around the 18 yrd box, and they have possession of the ball....pressure should be instantly applied....

Mr. Tommo, agree with your post 100%....u deserve a good rating for that!!!

Lets put it this way... apart from hammering Derby we have not played any games to convince us that we will be title challengers!

Aston Villa away win - Only just, last minute free kick from Steven Gerrard. We were not the better team either.

Chelsea home draw - Ok we deserved this match but Chelsea were unbelivably poor, our chances were not clear ones though.

Sunderland away win - They pinned us back for majority of the game, we shouldn't let a team like Sunderland dominate possesion.

Derby home win - Against the worst team in the Prem, enough said!

Pompey away draw - How we didn't lose this is a mystery! Pompey were all over us!

Brum home draw - This was a sloppy game that again we didn't deserve to win. Brum played well.

Wigan away win - Wigan had the better chances than us, they could of won even but ended up losing.

Spurs home draw - A poor Spurs side dominated a large majority of the game and had the clearer chances. We were lucky that the ref was a Liverpool fan!


Apart from beating Derby we have not played convincing Premiership elect football!

Hate to say this.  But when you put it like that - what have we done to show we are title challengers?

It shouldnt be a pace issue when their striker has their back to the goals, and has enough space to turn and shoot...
You only drop off if your on the wing, and jockying an opponent...not if your around the 18 yrd box, and they have possession of the ball....pressure should be instantly applied....

Your comment about only dropping off on the wing I disagree with, as attacks do occur through the middle, but certainly around the box, you can't afford to be too far away.

You seem to have specific occasions in mind as opposed to the general observation you initially made, and perhaps you are right about those. It's always a judgement call and sometimes the defender gets it wrong.

It shouldnt be a pace issue when their striker has their back to the goals, and has enough space to turn and shoot...
You only drop off if your on the wing, and jockying an opponent...not if your around the 18 yrd box, and they have possession of the ball....pressure should be instantly applied....

Thats true.

But I do believe that we have the slowest back four in the Premiership. Nearly every striker from each team we have faced this season has floored past our defenders like they weren't even there. I think we need quicker defenders. We might aswell go all in for Micah Richards! He is faster than strikers, more powerfull than Heskey, he is so young but so good its unbelievable. I feel £20m would be a bit much but a gamble is a gamble and we should definitely take this gamble!

Thats true.

But I do believe that we have the slowest back four in the Premiership. Nearly every striker from each team we have faced this season has floored past our defenders like they weren't even there. I think we need quicker defenders. We might aswell go all in for Micah Richards! He is faster than strikers, more powerfull than Heskey, he is so young but so good its unbelievable. I feel £20m would be a bit much but a gamble is a gamble and we should definitely take this gamble!

Another good point - Ra Ra you've taken your medicine tonight haven't you - keep it up!

It's clear to every red that we are very light weight in depth at the back!  When we lost Agger - it showed that weakness.  Summer signings should have sorted this. 

Agreed.  Without Agger we have no pace at the back.  Even Finnan, although he is consistent is by no means a speed merchant.  Our defence has been solid because of great communication and intelligent footballers capable of reading a game.  I hope this is a blip.

We have hardly been leaking goals all season - the Marseille goal for instance was a bit of individual brilliance.

Let's have a little bit of restraint.  We are only just in to October and we are still unbeaten in the Premiership after 8 games.  Okay - we have drawn a couple that we shouldn't have but nobody is going to be coming in till at least January so we need to a) have faith in the squad and manager and b) get behind them and sort out this apparent problem we are having at Anfield.

Okay - we have drawn a couple that we shouldn't have but nobody is going to be coming in till at least January so we need to a) have faith in the squad and manager and b) get behind them and sort out this apparent problem we are having at Anfield.

...or problems. It is unlikely that it is just one thing that would explain everything we are seeing. It is far more likely to be a combination of factors.

A series of unfortunate events even...

Let's have a little bit of restraint.  We are only just in to October and we are still unbeaten in the Premiership after 8 games.  Okay - we have drawn a couple that we shouldn't have but nobody is going to be coming in till at least January so we need to a) have faith in the squad and manager and b) get behind them and sort out this apparent problem we are having at Anfield.

Absolutely agree with you there JD, we are 4th, still unbeaten, a game in hand, the situation is not dramatic. We have problems but every team have it soon or later. Come on you reds and in RAFA I still trust.

Rafa's post match interview (BBC - Realplayer)

BBC Match report.

Thats true.

But I do believe that we have the slowest back four in the Premiership. Nearly every striker from each team we have faced this season has floored past our defenders like they weren't even there. I think we need quicker defenders. We might aswell go all in for Micah Richards! He is faster than strikers, more powerful than Heskey, he is so young but so good its unbelievable. I feel £20m would be a bit much but a gamble is a gamble and we should definitely take this gamble!

If I'm not mistaken he has sign a new contract with City and his dream is to captain his side.... so pointless comment really. We do have what is required, Agger been injured doesn't help but please let's not going in a stupid spending frenzy which would be utterly useless...Let's back the boys before to blame them. Reading you,  the house is on fire!! which is really exaggerated....

ra ra rafa your valuation of liverpool stinks

excactly. good post