Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In-game & post-match wake-up call

When the players actually got stuck in and showed some balls and guts we pinned back UTD and they could not cope with our intensity but how come we need to go down by 2 goals before we start playing like that.Forget tactics and choices if players dont give 100% for 90 mins we will always be having these results and conversations.
I am still confused by Brendan but I am more confused by players looking like they are scared to be out there in a Red shirt.
Do your job or f**k off.

It's not as simple as that. You can't just say the difference between the 1st and 2nd half was intensity and effort. Of course tactics come into it, our movement up front was much better 2nd half, in turn our middies had more space to play and the game got a bit stretched. And with that came a bit of confidence. Why do fans insist on always blaming intensity/effort? It paints a picture that the players didn't give a sh*t in the 1st half and that they did in the 2nd.

Never like losing to them, always hurts. 

Terrible first half and pretty disheartening, but good performance in the second half, and lots of energy when Sturridge, Borini and Suarez were on the pitch together, which hopefully will bode well for the future.  Allen does look badly out of form and I'm not convinced that he and Lucas work in the same team.  I wouldn't write him (Allen) off, though, I just think he's having a dip in form. 

I do see us as at the start of a major rebuilding process, set backs happen, but I actually saw a lot of positives from the second half and think we are slowly going in the right direction.  I know I might get slaughtered for that after that first half today, but you don't turn a tanker around in seconds, and as a club we've gone way off course for a few years. 

I realise some will buy into Rodger's ideas, others won't, (I'm one of the formers).  Rodgers will make mistakes, he's 39 and learning his trade, but I think he has something worth staying patient for, even though this will mean some disappointment and frustration on the way.  YNWA.

After todays performance from Downing, I wonder if Rodgers will be in the press waxing lyrical about how much he decreased his value.

It's not as simple as that. You can't just say the difference between the 1st and 2nd half was intensity and effort. Of course tactics come into it, our movement up front was much better 2nd half, in turn our middies had more space to play and the game got a bit stretched. And with that came a bit of confidence. Why do fans insist on always blaming intensity/effort? It paints a picture that the players didn't give a sh*t in the 1st half and that they did in the 2nd.

The point I am making is that everything starts with 100% commitment even with great tactics if the players dont repsond to the manager we get first halves like that.For me its players attitudes first tactics second.

The point I am making is that everything starts with 100% commitment even with great tactics if the players dont repsond to the manager we get first halves like that.For me its players attitudes first tactics second.

But can you highlight several (or any) examples of a lack of effort from the players in the 1st half? Som many posts in this thread suggest the players weren't trying. I mean where is evidence of a lack of intensity. BR said we were a bit hesitant in the first half and it's hard to disagree but that doesn't mean the players weren't trying. Are you talking about our intensity when we didn't have the ball?

At least we've only lost a point to Everton and Spurs and lost no ground to Arsenal. Could have been a lot worse in that regard.

At least we've only lost a point to Everton and Spurs and lost no ground to Arsenal. Could have been a lot worse in that regard.

We won against Everton, 3-2, fair and square. But if the ref and the linesman are decided to screw you and deny you a legitimate last-second goal, how can you fight?

But can you highlight several (or any) examples of a lack of effort from the players in the 1st half? Som many posts in this thread suggest the players weren't trying. I mean where is evidence of a lack of intensity. BR said we were a bit hesitant in the first half and it's hard to disagree but that doesn't mean the players weren't trying. Are you talking about our intensity when we didn't have the ball?

NO its a general feeling that there body language suggests they will not lose sleep tonight.Only when we went 2=0 down did we see players dig in and try to fight back too little to late sadly.
Its not a case of not trying but maybe more a case of self belief and belief in the team(I hate that term GROUP)

We only played 45 minutes you cant win games like that. But the good news is sturridge and luis can work together. Why players refuse to show up for such a big game god knows.

I'm fed up of seeing us start playing against the big boys only when we're a goal or 2 down. Why were we so sh*te on the ball first half? We never looked comfortable for a second. You see the ball bouncing up off players feet on their first touch and I can't recall us winning a single loose ball. The biggest problem first half for me was that they wanted it more. You can concede goals to class players like RVP but if the other team is leading because they're fighting harder than you and they want it more that just isn't acceptable. Absolutely inexcusable.

We'd get to their box and it was like alien territory to us. Even when we were right on the edge of their area they looked comfortable and we didn't know what to do. The few chances we had to shoot first half we passed up and lost possession.

Then, 2nd half, as soon as they take a 2 goal lead, Gerrard strides through the middle and wins the ball, take a touch to the side and fizzes a hard low shot at De Gea and the rebound is scored by Sturridge (who was fantastic all 2nd half). I love Steven Gerrard, and he's been very good lately, but why wasn't he doing that sort of thing first half? It just baffles me why it takes us so long to get into the game sometimes, especially in these huge away games.

United are a much better side than I've given them credit for, but if we played the whole 90 minutes the way we did in the 2nd half, we could have beaten them today.

So frustrating. Not going to single players out because almost everyone was bad first half and everyone looked alot better second half.

 I am so disappointed with that result and worse than disappointed with that first half performance,so many players looked like they had been on the piss(or nest) all night and had no fight or energy in them at all.Joe Allen has become a liability in midfield and put us under all sorts of pressure.Downing was another who contributed zilch to the match and it is about time Brendan Rodgers put him in the well used by date.
                                                We certainly started to play when Sturridge came on and Suarez seemed to enjoy playing alongside him.I presume Lucas was subbed because he had had a yellow otherwise I would of preferred to see Allen subbed.Finally to our captain Stevie Gerrard who appeared to be so tired and lethargic,what's the problem.

A game of two halves.....  We were played off the pitch in the first half and were lucky to only be down one going into the break.  Allen looked dreadful (again) while Downing and Sterling were inneffective and Suarez was isolated.  They pressed us high up the pitch, but we lacked a pacey direct presence to keep their CB's honest.  Cue, the entry of Sturridge at half time. 

We were the better team after the break in my opinion.  Sturridge's pace, power, and direct approach meant that the CB's had to stay a little deeper, which opened up a pocket of space just in front for Suarez to operate in.  He looked very comfortable in that role, and he and Danny linked up nicely!!  If today was anything to go off of, they will cause defenders fits when they gain a better understanding of one another!!  Also, the introduction of Borini was very positive.  He looked very comfortable on our left hand side, and he also seemed to link up well with Danny and Luis.  I am already salivating at the prospect of having those 3 lead our attack on a regular basis!!

Keeping this all in perspective, we are some way off the top 4 and it seems unlikely that we will make a real run at it this season.  However, I think that the top 6 is definitely within our means and I still believe that we are only a few players away of from competing for honours next season.  We obviously need another forward in the mould of Borini, Suarez, Sturridge (pacey, high work rate, strong, good movement, etc) and a player like Gameiro could be a great move for us.  After the departure of Sahin, we are still lacking a creative, driving force in midfield in case Stevie goes down injured.  We need additional cover at LB, and additional cover at CB but the return of Kelly will help lighten the load and perhaps one of Wisdom or Kelly could slot into a backup CB role. 

I am bitterly dissappointed we couldn't at least take a point from the game as we deserved more from the last meeting and got nothing, but thats football.  Looking forward to the next match and seeing how the lads spring back.

YNWA

I really fancied us today, I really thought we had a good chance to beat a fairly average Man U. Take RVP's goals out and they'd be struggling to be in top 3.

The difference is, they are prepared to pay big money for a player who will make a difference, no matter his age. Gerrard is right, you cannot and should not dismiss any payer due to his age.

Just feel depressed tonight.

The lack of effort complaint gets bandied about too much for me. They played better than us in that first half. They passed it better, the played at a much higher tempo with the ball, their movement was better and more clever and they had more ability in their front 3 than we had in ours. It's easy to say that they wanted it more but I didn't see that. I didn't see our lads bottling 50/50s or failing to track runners, did anyone else?

Some very good points raised there for me Scott and I agree, regarding the first half.

Alright, you can say we were piss poor in the first half. Our passing wasn't nearly as quick as theirs was. Our movement and desire to move as a unit wasn't as eagerly anticipated as theirs was. Quite frankly, they got into the game a lot better than we did following Van Persies goal. Our shape went all over the place following their first goal. Lucas was ending up deeper than Agger and Skrtel and Allen & Gerrard were chasing out wide leaving gaps all over the show. As soon as we'd gather the ball, we'd be under pressure. Sterling and Downing as part of the so called attack were not up to the job and it looked like nerves got the better of some of our players.

You have to be quick when you play the mancs. Move the ball around with pace and keep your movement going. That's simply what they were better at in the first half. We didn't match them and we didn't have the attacking edge that they did.

Second half Sturridge changed the game for us because he brings pace. Coupled with that the game taking it's toll on the mancs pace, we were getting back into it and it wouldn't have been an injustice if that game ended up a draw.

Maybe Rodgers got it wrong with his selection but at least he changed it at half time rather than sticking with it for another 15 minutes into the second half. He made the right change and it paid off in some ways.

What lost us that game was some very poor set piece defending and not matching the mancs for movement and passing in that period after Vn Persie's goal.

What prevented us winning that game was maybe the wrong team selection and support for Suarez.

I'm fed up of seeing us start playing against the big boys only when we're a goal or 2 down. Why were we so sh*te on the ball first half? We never looked comfortable for a second. You see the ball bouncing up off players feet on their first touch and I can't recall us winning a single loose ball. The biggest problem first half for me was that they wanted it more. You can concede goals to class players like RVP but if the other team is leading because they're fighting harder than you and they want it more that just isn't acceptable. Absolutely inexcusable.

We'd get to their box and it was like alien territory to us. Even when we were right on the edge of their area they looked comfortable and we didn't know what to do. The few chances we had to shoot first half we passed up and lost possession.

Then, 2nd half, as soon as they take a 2 goal lead, Gerrard strides through the middle and wins the ball, take a touch to the side and fizzes a hard low shot at De Gea and the rebound is scored by Sturridge (who was fantastic all 2nd half). I love Steven Gerrard, and he's been very good lately, but why wasn't he doing that sort of thing first half? It just baffles me why it takes us so long to get into the game sometimes, especially in these huge away games.

United are a much better side than I've given them credit for, but if we played the whole 90 minutes the way we did in the 2nd half, we could have beaten them today.

So frustrating. Not going to single players out because almost everyone was bad first half and everyone looked alot better second half.

The problem is our midfield. Let's look at it. Downing, Allen and Lucas have no natural attacking instincts. Henderson, Sterling and Suso will attack but have no eye for goal. Gerrard is having his worst season for the club, Shelvey is hit and miss. We're toothless in midfield.

With the addition of Sturridge and Borini's return, and Johnson and Enrique as attacking fullbacks, we've got some good attacking players but we need to look to our midfield because it needs an overhaul. We need to play all three strikers up front, and then we need to buy a world class creative midfielder and a world class attacking midfielder, regardless of their age or nationality. If we do we'll have the beginnings of a decent squad.

Some very good points raised there for me Scott and I agree, regarding the first half.

Alright, you can say we were piss poor in the first half. Our passing wasn't nearly as quick as theirs was. Our movement and desire to move as a unit wasn't as eagerly anticipated as theirs was. Quite frankly, they got into the game a lot better than we did following Van Persies goal. Our shape went all over the place following their first goal. Lucas was ending up deeper than Agger and Skrtel and Allen & Gerrard were chasing out wide leaving gaps all over the show. As soon as we'd gather the ball, we'd be under pressure. Sterling and Downing as part of the so called attack were not up to the job and it looked like nerves got the better of some of our players.

You have to be quick when you play the mancs. Move the ball around with pace and keep your movement going. That's simply what they were better at in the first half. We didn't match them and we didn't have the attacking edge that they did.

Second half Sturridge changed the game for us because he brings pace. Coupled with that the game taking it's toll on the mancs pace, we were getting back into it and it wouldn't have been an injustice if that game ended up a draw.

Maybe Rodgers got it wrong with his selection but at least he changed it at half time rather than sticking with it for another 15 minutes into the second half. He made the right change and it paid off in some ways.

What lost us that game was some very poor set piece defending and not matching the mancs for movement and passing in that period after Vn Persie's goal.

What prevented us winning that game was maybe the wrong team selection and support for Suarez.

An excellent assessment of the game. Honest, informative, without going over the top in criticism and praise.

Can't even blame Howard F***ing Webb!

Pity the side could not have played both halves in the same manner, awful for the first 45 minutes, marked improvement when Sturridge came on 2 goals in 2 games, at least he is showing promise. Still need to work on defence particularly set pieces, where too many goals are conceded.

I wonder what Louis van Gaal would have done at halftime.

Had a pie and made a sh*t ?

Some talk about problems we may have in midfield.  But what have we been saying for months - no options up front. And today, for the first time with some real options up front, when we used them in the 2nd half, we looked a different team.

Suarez dropping back a bit worked surprisingly well, thought his passing was really positive and accurate, and caused Utd a lot of problems.  Borini did OK too when he came on, but Sterling offered very little today, so a timely return. Looking forward to seeing more of Borini after his layoff. Haven't seen much from him up to now, but hopefully he'll stay injury free till season end and we see what he can/can't do.

Can understand why Rodgers didn't start with Sturridge, he's only signed, may not be match fit, and hasn't really had time to gel with the team. Chasing the game though, he did well when he came on, fair play to him.  But wouldn't have started Allen.  Reckon BR wanted to be cautious for the first 65, then bring on Sturridge etc. and go for it a bit more - didn't exactly turn out that way   Hindsight is a great thing.

We could maybe do with one more out-n-out striker in the Jan window, in case of injury, but possible with Sturridge, and now Borini back, he'll make do till summer and take more time about it.

The SG/Allen/Lucas midfield though is a head scratcher. I'd have SG and Lucas in there based on current form. Think Allen is a good player, having a dip. He's also one of BR's 'big' money signings, so it makes it awkward leaving him out.  I still though can't see all of them playing in the same midfield, so reckon something will have to give there.  Agree we could probably do with an attacking midfielder - but if Luis continues to drop back like he did in the 2nd half today, and we play with Sturridge ahead of him, that might work instead.

Disappointing to loose today. Downing getting some stick, but thought Sterling and Allen were just as poor. Lucas was on a yellow and was making a lot of niggly fouls, think that might be why BR took him off instead of Allen. The set pieces are starting to become a problem too,  both defending them, and making use of the ones we get at the other end - surely they can work on them and improve. Still, gonna hold on to the positives from today, and hope we can bounce back in the next game....

Liverpool can take a measure of consolation from a lively closing phase, but the 24-point gap between themselves and the club they regard as fierce rivals makes painful reading.

Ed: (Does it !)


They were too passive and negative until United had a two-goal lead, with £15m summer signing Joe Allen looking out of his depth in midfield before he was taken off.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20924824

Next  training session at Melwood needs to start with ' we just aren't good enough ' ! we are inconsistent, and we have players who simply don't belong at lfc , losing against the mancs is bad but when our players don't turn up ! well thats terrible ! Brendan needs to offload the passengers and we need quality players , get quality ball to our strikers and i'm confident we'll get the goals ,sorry but Joe Allen isn't what we need in midfield ,but he's not the only player out of his depth ,Downing,Henderson, and Gerrard's days look numbered

Next  training session at Melwood needs to start with ' we just aren't good enough '

F**k that.

He's been telling them that all season long.

Maybe it's time he told them they are good enough and to start getting them to play to their potential.