Us, the fans

Something needs to be said aabout us.

Lets be honest, ok we dont go on the field to play or decide who plays or what way we play but we have a lot to answer for in my view.

Granted everyone has opinions and are entitled to them, others wont always or ever agree. But we seem to have become in the last oh say 5 years a bunch of clowns. Heres why

1) Our support in Anfield:
 Is it what it should be? Nowhere near it. At times its a liberary getting outsung by any away group. Then if so much as 1 pass is miss hit audible groans come from the seats. YNWA means fook all to a lot now who cant be arsed to sing it before a game or at the end of a game. We love to cheer for 2 minutes after we score but what about other times in a game when the team needs tgo hear us?

2) Moaning about managers owners etc.:
Non stop. the 2 clowns from America no bother with the complaining there or Hodgson. But the same crowd who wanted Moores gone and wanted him gone for years were the crowd saying these 2 would bring back the glory days. Then they were found out we wanted rid. In came Martin Broughton to find new owners, he was a c**t from Chelsea what was he involved for? Then he got NESV in to buy the club, ah fair play Martin top bloke and NESV were definitely going to be the saviours no doubt. 2 years later and there almost as evil as the last 2 (I cant see why though?) we need them out. Moores should never have sold

6 months in and theres doubts about our new manager. 6 months and the backing from the best supporters in the world is fading?

3) The players:
We need to give youth a chance. Sterling must play Suso must play etc etc. Then low and behold at there young age they dont show the form they showed at under 21 or under 18 and we question there place in the squad. We done a Lucas on Henderson after a few months only to see him come good at the ripe old age of what 22? I go back to the audible moans and groans from our crowd at simple things, imagine hearing that if your a kid learning your trade in the first team helpful? I doubt it. Even the experienced players get it in the neck for a bad game even if there last 5 were top notch.

The crowd in the 60s 70s and 80s were handed trophy after trophy yet they had patience. We get the odd trophy here and there yet we are expectant of it and expectant of perfection like we get it every season and if it doesnt come well then that bunch of players need to be sold that manager needs to be sacked and we nned new owners.

This club needs stability. We have a young manager a young squad and owners new to the sport. They are all learning. For God sake lets be patient give them time to learn and see where it takes us. You might be surprised. We are waiting 23 years for a league surely 2 more wont kill us!

Until this club becomes 1 again from top to bottom, very much including us, the fans, we face an uphill battle to get bacck on our perch

You make some very good points Brian but there are also fans such as myself who don't expect perfection, don't jump on the players backs every five minutes who is generally worried about where we are headed.

I want stability as much as anyone but at the same time I think we are being fed a line by those within the club about what are expectations should be and many seem to buy it.

F***ing right. When I looked at our squad for the city game my first thought was christ how young is our team compared to theirs? We have a decent side now. In 2 or 3 years time they should become a winning machine.

I'm liking us under Brendan personally, yeah results are sometimes frustrating, and don't get me wrong the last couple of weeks have been sh*t, but I think we are on the up.

I'm going to the game next Thursday and hope to be a part of one of those great European nights I've heard about. We can still go through and we can still finish the league season strong.

I don't see why the owners get bashed as much as H+G. I can tell that once the FFP rules are in place, and they will be enforced, we will be in a very strong position, what FSG have done is clever in my opinion given that we started preparations before most of our competitors so we should have the advantage.

If you cant support us when we lose, don't support us when we win.

You make some very good points Brian but there are also fans such as myself who don't expect perfection, don't jump on the players backs every five minutes who is generally worried about where we are headed.

I want stability as much as anyone but at the same time I think we are being fed a line by those within the club about what are expectations should be and many seem to buy it.

Obviously everyone is not tarred with the same brush. Its a general observation. Of course there are current fans of this club who would be a credit to any generation of LFC supporter but there are far too many who are as far from what I believe has made Liverpool supporters stand out from every other down the years

I agree with the OP 100%. You've got young lads playing tonight who haven't even played 20 games for the club getting absolutely slaughtered because we got beat 2-0 away at the Russian champions. This despite the fact that we could have had five or six ourselves and that it was a very difficult game in awful conditions. I remember good Liverpool teams, really f*cking good Liverpool teams getting spanked 3-0 at Dynamo Tibliski and getting less stick than some of the players tonight.

Some of our support both in the ground and on the forums (and don't tell me it doesn't matter because journos and players read them) is a joke sometimes.

All very pertinent points raised there Brian but I hate to say it, it'll never happen.

As the game has changed over the years so has the way fans support.  I'm not just talking about us but about all the top teams.

Getting a ticket to a Premier League game is like getting a ticket to a festival or concert.  It's something that is on people's "must do" list not because they support the team in question but because they want to show off to their mates.

It's never going to get back to how it used to be.

Without condoning or condemning, it's easier to be patient when you're winning things. It's just human nature. As for Martin Broughton, he may have been a Chelsea c**t but he was brought in because he was a well respected former Chairman of Barclays Bank with a lot of business experience who just happened to support Chelsea. Just saying...

But as to your points, on the whole I agree with you.

6 months in and theres doubts about our new manager. 6 months and the backing from the best supporters in the world is fading?

Think there were doubts when he come in from a lot of Kenny and Rafa supporters, BR is trying to win us over but its easy to do that win games and dont bullshit us.

He discarded Andy Carroll just when he seemed fit and signed Borini for 10 million

He got rid of experienced players Bellamy,Kuyt, Adam Maxi and replaced them with Assidi who he wont play, Allen who simply isnt good enough for 15 million he signed Sahin who was meant  to be the missing link then plays the likes of Joe Cole,Downing,Henderson,Enrique after slagging them off.

He persists on passing the ball from back at all costs yet every team in the land push up on us to put us under pressure.

He constantly blames KK and the previous regime for problems.

He picks players out of form.

I started going in the late 70s and whats happened in the  last 4 years have been dreadful but i dont see it improving, but what i believe we need is a experienced manager who is a winner end off we our Liverpool Fc for F**k sake not a experiment.

We have a squad of International players and some of the best youngsters mainly cos of Rafa and Rudolfo yet we are failing time after time we drew with a poor Arsenal team and Man city away and minute we can finish forth its false dawn after false dawn we need leadership
HAVE WE GOT IT?

You make some very good points Brian but there are also fans such as myself who don't expect perfection, don't jump on the players backs every five minutes who is generally worried about where we are headed.

I want stability as much as anyone but at the same time I think we are being fed a line by those within the club about what are expectations should be and many seem to buy it.

A very good point.  For example, we have a chairman who said we can compete with any club in signing players, implying money is not a problem - when clearly it is.  I am worried that the lack of experience through the club may cause us problems - possibly the start of which we are seeing now. 

HAVE WE GOT IT?

There's a remote chance that we might have it . We'll know in 2015

i might be dead by then high blood pressure isnt being helped at moment

Something needs to be said aabout us.

Lets be honest, ok we dont go on the field to play or decide who plays or what way we play but we have a lot to answer for in my view.

Granted everyone has opinions and are entitled to them, others wont always or ever agree. But we seem to have become in the last oh say 5 years a bunch of clowns. Heres why

1) Our support in Anfield:
 Is it what it should be? Nowhere near it. At times its a liberary getting outsung by any away group. Then if so much as 1 pass is miss hit audible groans come from the seats. YNWA means fook all to a lot now who cant be arsed to sing it before a game or at the end of a game. We love to cheer for 2 minutes after we score but what about other times in a game when the team needs tgo hear us?

2) Moaning about managers owners etc.:
Non stop. the 2 clowns from America no bother with the complaining there or Hodgson. But the same crowd who wanted Moores gone and wanted him gone for years were the crowd saying these 2 would bring back the glory days. Then they were found out we wanted rid. In came Martin Broughton to find new owners, he was a c**t from Chelsea what was he involved for? Then he got NESV in to buy the club, ah fair play Martin top bloke and NESV were definitely going to be the saviours no doubt. 2 years later and there almost as evil as the last 2 (I cant see why though?) we need them out. Moores should never have sold

6 months in and theres doubts about our new manager. 6 months and the backing from the best supporters in the world is fading?

3) The players:
We need to give youth a chance. Sterling must play Suso must play etc etc. Then low and behold at there young age they dont show the form they showed at under 21 or under 18 and we question there place in the squad. We done a Lucas on Henderson after a few months only to see him come good at the ripe old age of what 22? I go back to the audible moans and groans from our crowd at simple things, imagine hearing that if your a kid learning your trade in the first team helpful? I doubt it. Even the experienced players get it in the neck for a bad game even if there last 5 were top notch.

The crowd in the 60s 70s and 80s were handed trophy after trophy yet they had patience. We get the odd trophy here and there yet we are expectant of it and expectant of perfection like we get it every season and if it doesnt come well then that bunch of players need to be sold that manager needs to be sacked and we nned new owners.

This club needs stability. We have a young manager a young squad and owners new to the sport. They are all learning. For God sake lets be patient give them time to learn and see where it takes us. You might be surprised. We are waiting 23 years for a league surely 2 more wont kill us!

Until this club becomes 1 again from top to bottom, very much including us, the fans, we face an uphill battle to get bacck on our perch

good points.. here is my take on it.

1) I live in Canada and specifically in the Toronto area.  the Toronto Maple Leafs are the hockey team here and hockey to Canada is like football to the rest of the world.  Leafs have a fantastic history, and is a top $$ earner.... however in the past several years.. the team stank.. didnt make playoffs didnt do anything but play golf.  The fans are arguably the most fanatic of all teams but when you constantly lose.. and be the laughing boy of the entire league due to expectations vs real results.. even those diehard fans are quieter.   I see that with LFC... when you really have nothing to cheer for in the past few years, there is no new excitement or draw for new fans to jump aboard and existing fans to spread the love.... fan support will decline... its just a matter of life... ppl want to support winners.  Man Utd with its sustained success has created supporters and enthusiasm.  I am cautiously optimistic about our current squad.  we need to scout well and start winning... then we can bring Anfield to its former glory.  also... just want to put it in here.  we need that new stadium.... watched the real madrid vs man utd game yesterday.. wow what a beauty the pitch they play in.

2) different times, different generations.  modern football is imo quite different now.... when hundreds of millions are thrown around, everything has to be done quick... results have to come in asap.  when that doesnt happen, managers are sacked, players are sold.  We're all loyal Reds fans but we also see what is happening to the big clubs around us.... they have grown, increased success, increased revenues etc... unfortunately, i believe we have lost ground to them.   directing some anger towards LFC management is the fans way of saying it is not good enough.

3) i'm a huge fan of young players.  I agree we should give them a chance... but i also believe there is a tipping point between too many young players vs experience.  Young players tend to be more risky, tend to have more inconsistency and most importantly, their mental game isnt concrete yet.  thats the importance that experienced players bring. they help guide the young and speed up their learning curve.  Atm i believe we have too many young players actually.  especially with jamie leaving us, inexperience greatly outweighs the experience... like i've said in other threads... how can our players know what to do to achieve success if they have no idea what is it?  I personally believe we have enough of a good crop of young players now... FSG should relook at its acquisition strategy and get key experienced players.. ones that have won it all.   

All very pertinent points raised there Brian but I hate to say it, it'll never happen.

As the game has changed over the years so has the way fans support.  I'm not just talking about us but about all the top teams.

Getting a ticket to a Premier League game is like getting a ticket to a festival or concert.  It's something that is on people's "must do" list not because they support the team in question but because they want to show off to their mates.

It's never going to get back to how it used to be.

Deb I think you are being honest and forthright and I appreciate that very much.

I have no problems with people criticizing and being impatient...this is 2013 and in all things in life (not just sports) its the way of the world we live in and I have come to expect it.

What I have never gotten and do not care for are those that preach YNWA have a holier then thou attitude, saying it is what makes LFC fans different then others and then go about having a go at fellow supporters/players/managers etc.

Saw a senior poster on this board today call the manager a c**t and then posted a picture of him as a cock....it may be veiled attempt at humor but in context it was not humorous at all, actually I was shocked. Oh it will get ignored as a way of blowing off steam after a loss, but its more than that and its been brewing in the shadows for several years now.

We have become just like other supporters and other clubs...(it is what it is) we are not special or better than the ones we make fun of.


EDIT: There are those (a dying minority i feel) that still try to do it the right way, and they should be appreciated, but from my eyes the only thing separating a LFC fan from a Chelsea or Bitter supporter is the color of the kit and nothing more. 

You make some very good points Brian but there are also fans such as myself who don't expect perfection, don't jump on the players backs every five minutes who is generally worried about where we are headed.

I want stability as much as anyone but at the same time I think we are being fed a line by those within the club about what are expectations should be and many seem to buy it.

Spot on Si, Brendan just confirms this after a loss and one foot out of the Europa League he comes out with the "in 6 to 12 months we wont be making the same mistakes" pathetic quote, I could educate my 4 year old daughter not to make the same mistakes in that time ffs. Who does he think he's teaching, monkeys?

Some of our support both in the ground and on the forums (and don't tell me it doesn't matter because journos and players read them) is a joke sometimes.

Get what you are saying Mick but only to an extent. There are WUMS yes, and there are people who have have been waiting to put the agendas they've had ready for months into play.

I'm neither of those but don't expect me to be happy with where we are at or not worried about the possibility of everything at the club being wrong.

If others are happy then carry on, but I will never be happy with a Liverpool side with no fight, adaptation or heart. If things were going well and there were signs of progress then great, I'll say nice things.

But they're not are they? And unlike some I am not happy with that.

And before anybody mentions 'writing a season off' or 'season of transition' you can F***ing leg it! If you're happy with that then you've probably got pictures of John Henry on your bedroom wall because you have been brainwashed my friend and are now a member of a cult that I really do believe will be the downfall of this club and will set us back as a force on the field for many years.

Rodgers needs to earn his crust and he needs to do it quickly.

Football has changed over the years, and not for the better in my opinion..

Your point regarding us being the best supporters Brian? Well it can be seen two different ways i guess.

Are we as a set of fans knowledgable? Yes id say so, the majority are very knowledgable about the gmae as a whole and our club.. So we can sit back and look at what is happening and see with that knowledge where we are and if we are going in the right direction..
Being great fans doesnt just mean you sit there and say everything is great and continue to fill the pockets of the rich cu*ts who have plagued the games pockets does it? Sit with an inane grin on our faces and clap because thats what the best fans in the world do is it?
The atmosphere in the ground is changing yes, mainly because the local kids are being priced out of the game, the noisy fuckers who chant cant afford to go to the game now because its being taken over and bled dry by some rich pr**k who doesnt give a F**k about us or our club as long as we pay 45 quid to get in and buy a programe and hey a shirt or something else that will line his pocket..
Its turning into a middle class entertainment business, as long as they pay the high prices who cares who comes through the door..

But as the best fans in the world we just sit back and except that we are nowhere? That because of the way the game has gone that we are being passed by by at least half a dozen clubs? That we have to accept that we are a mid table side now going nowhere? But bury our heads in the sand that people who dont give a monkeys about football or our club will take us back to "where we should be" by doing it a completely different way to everyone else in the league? But that will work right?
We should just nod in agreement becuse thats whats expected?
We are knowledgable and i think the majority can see thats its not going to work..

If the way we are playing this season is pleasing some then fine.. But all i see is a bang average side who wont compete at the top end anymore, we are the exact vision of average now, we are inconsistent, we can look great on certain days and sh*te on others..

We wont be another Forest due to the money in the game at the top level now, but we will probably be another Newcastle or Spurs (of the mid 90s) for the forseeable future.

I dont want the manager sacked, it goes against my principles..

I would support this club if we lost every week and if we were in any division because i love this club .... Its my club

But im not burying my head in the sand at where we are.

Mid table with no immediate look of getting back on our perch

I can see that.. I cant be positive all the time and pretend its all good.. Ill always support this club and wont ever slag any player or manager off.. But as a good fan im not going to pretend i see something i dont

Spot on Pd.

To be saying that anybody who isn't of the mindset that everything is great is a disgrace or what have you is wrong, dramatic, blinkered and maybe smacking of the:'Look at me, aren't I the model fan' outlook in some cases.

Some like me are just very concerned about the club from board room level downwards.

I agree with the OP 100%. You've got young lads playing tonight who haven't even played 20 games for the club getting absolutely slaughtered because we got beat 2-0 away at the Russian champions. This despite the fact that we could have had five or six ourselves and that it was a very difficult game in awful conditions. I remember good Liverpool teams, really f*cking good Liverpool teams getting spanked 3-0 at Dynamo Tibliski and getting less stick than some of the players tonight.

Some of our support both in the ground and on the forums (and don't tell me it doesn't matter because journos and players read them) is a joke sometimes.

Mick, people aren't criticising about one game, people are criticising the way we are heading and it doesn't look good. I agree with Brian about stability that Rodgers should be given a chance to prove himself, but please don't go around calling people joke of a supporters if they are worried about where we are heading, because in our current form it looks like we are going to be a midtable side for a while

experienced manager who is a winner end off we our Liverpool Fc for f**k sake not a experiment.

Should be Liverpool is a winner end off and Liverpool Fc for f**k sake not an experiment.

Managers experience for me is vital but more vital is our boot room.  1 man can't do job.  Even a rocket scientist needs a helper with clean hands to tighten and fix the screws and check and so on.

Get what you are saying Mick but only to an extent. There are WUMS yes, and there are people who have have been waiting to put the agendas they've had ready for months into play.

I'm neither of those but don't expect me to be happy with where we are at or not worried about the possibility of everything at the club being wrong.

If others are happy then carry on, but I will never be happy with a Liverpool side with no fight, adaptation or heart. If things were going well and there were signs of progress then great, I'll say nice things.

But they're not are they? And unlike some I am not happy with that.

And before anybody mentions 'writing a season off' or 'season of transition' you can f**king leg it! If you're happy with that then you've probably got pictures of John Henry on your bedroom wall because you have been brainwashed my friend and are now a member of a cult that I really do believe will be the downfall of this club and will set us back as a force on the field for many years.

Rodgers needs to earn his crust and he needs to do it quickly.

Excellent post WAHS

our scouting needs a major upheavel.  I should be head scout and be incharge of choosing the gaffer.  If we fail to be in top four the same season than I resign with paying the club 10,000 dollars cos thats all i can afford so there. there's my rant

And before anybody mentions 'writing a season off' or 'season of transition' you can F***ing leg it! If you're happy with that then you've probably got pictures of John Henry on your bedroom wall because you have been brainwashed my friend and are now a member of a cult that I really do believe will be the downfall of this club and will set us back as a force on the field for many years.

Rodgers needs to earn his crust and he needs to do it quickly.

Fully agree mate about the woppers explaining away the F**k ups and sleeping well with a picture of John Henry laughing at them while they sleep, the same effigy won't be found on the manager's bedroom wall I can guarantee!!

Brendan was a surprise appointment to some but FSG saw the benefits in installing him as manager of LFC, surely to F**k they will give him the best opportunity to acquit himself well and thereby justify their faith in him.
The same ethos would as a matter of course bring success to the club.
If the advantages John Henry and Co saw in BR's appointment are not exactly what we interpret as such the whole thing unravels and the club's success is not an ingredient of the deal.

LFC as a good investment entity appears to be the objective of the owners, that very statement conjures up a picture of a solvent, self-sustaining, mid-table soccer club which is an improvement on the H&G ideal.
The contented fan with John Henry beaming down on him can sleep well in his cocoon. 

Get what you are saying Mick but only to an extent. There are WUMS yes, and there are people who have have been waiting to put the agendas they've had ready for months into play.

I'm neither of those but don't expect me to be happy with where we are at or not worried about the possibility of everything at the club being wrong.

If others are happy then carry on, but I will never be happy with a Liverpool side with no fight, adaptation or heart. If things were going well and there were signs of progress then great, I'll say nice things.

But they're not are they? And unlike some I am not happy with that.

And before anybody mentions 'writing a season off' or 'season of transition' you can f**king leg it! If you're happy with that then you've probably got pictures of John Henry on your bedroom wall because you have been brainwashed my friend and are now a member of a cult that I really do believe will be the downfall of this club and will set us back as a force on the field for many years.

Rodgers needs to earn his crust and he needs to do it quickly.

Spot on mate.