Loyal servants but time to go?

Irrelevant of my feeling about lack of atmosphere/support in the stadium .. I do however feel that there are a number of loyal servants at the club that have played their best matches for Liverpool.

Riise (Villa??) and Hyppia (Fulham interest) come to mind...

Would it be wrong to think about selling them in the January window (while there value is still relatively high) and Rafa to be looking for alternatives in the european market now...

...add Crouch (Pompey interest) to that list... also feel he has played his best matches for the club.

So we need another quality squad forward, another left decent winger (and a quality centre back in the Jan window... if we are going to REALLY go for the title this year.

If not, lets keep them, BUT don't expect any miracle dreamer titles coming our way... yet again.

The spine (PR, JC, SG, FT) must stay and have more quality around it...if we are to mean business about WINNING this title this season.

Right I will stop dreaming now... but would be interested in some opinions.

My respect to these players (maybe with the exception of Crouch) who I feel have been fantastic servants to the club. YNWA.

I think we will see some changes come Jan and Riise looks the most likely to move on followed closely by Crouch.  I still say we need another LB for cover as we look too venerable on the counter with the strikers having to come back a lot more than you want them to.

Riise to Villa?! No way :'( Riise can't go!!
I can see Sami leaving, unfortunately he's getting on a bit and isn't as good as he used to be, I kinda hope he stays long enough to get a testimonial tho, is it just one more season after this? C'mon Sami.. you know you want to..

donrafael....i cant agree with you more mate....riise, crouch, hyypia, i believe even harry kewell might be farewelled as his chronic injuries are costing us more than what we think. I rate him extremely highly and hes a class player, but the reality is that he'll never be the same player due to his ongoing injuries....

agree on all 3 changes.......

Riise to Villa?! No way :'( Riise can't go!!
I can see Sami leaving, unfortunately he's getting on a bit and isn't as good as he used to be, I kinda hope he stays long enough to get a testimonial tho, is it just one more season after this? C'mon Sami.. you know you want to..

Am I missing something here with Riise or is he just a ladies man?  the missus has said the same thing about him.

cant see riise leaving and hyypia was told that he could stay longer after his contract and that it was pretty much up to him so i cant see him leaving either

Definitely think Riise has to go, but not Hyypia or Crouch.

Riise is really starting to remind me of Frank Lampard the way he shoots whenever he gets the ball regardless of if anyone's in a better position than him. I think our game's progressed now and his other skills apart from shooting just aren't good enough. A good shot isn't a good enough reason to keep a left back/left midfielder, they need to be able to do the main part of their job properly, and I think there are much better than Riise for both positions.

As for Hyypia, I do agree that we need a new third choice centre back, but I don't see why we shouldn't keep him as fourth choice. We do really need four CB's, as has been shown recently by Agger's injury, and we're not gonna get any better to sit on the bench 99% of the time. Plus we're not gonna get a transfer fee for him, so we might as well keep him.

Crouch, as I've said in numerous threads, gives us a completely different option up front. I accept that this is an option that isn't needed as often as our style of play has evolved, but it is still needed sometimes & I don't think we should get rid of him. Cruel as it may be seeing as he hasn't realy done anything wrong I would actually get rid of Voronin. There are plenty of better players who can perform the same role as Voronin, but I don't think we'd get anyone half as good to perform Crouch's role in the squad. The only issue is whether we can keep Crouch happy with a limited number of games, if his head's gonna drop & we're not gonna get the best out of him then I suppose we'd have to sell.

Voro works a lot harder and covers a lot more ground than Crouch.

I wonder if those kms run in a game stats are available anywhere?

Sorry Eddie, must I think Crouch must go... encourages the long ball "option" (which every class-footie fan should hate) and does not have the bottle to get stuck in when it matters. Sorry off to Pompey for me.

Riise as people here have said is a man of limited skills (particularly creative skills)... he should also be sold off while he has some value in the eurpean market.

I have changed my opinion about Hyypia after reading Eddie's comments - ok yes we do not a 4th CB and we wouldn't get much (if anything) for him in the market... so Carling Cup it is for Sami... we really do need that new CB ... you can see why Rafa was so keen on Lucas Neil and Heinze now...

Sorry Eddie, must I think Crouch must go... encourages the long ball "option" (which every class-footie fan should hate) and does not have the bottle to get stuck in when it matters. Sorry off to Pompey for me.

I agree with your assessment of Crouch (apart from possibly the bit about him not having the bottle to get stuck in) but personally I don't think that's a reason to sell him, rather a reason not to play him as often. Much as we don't like the style of play he encourages, there are occassions when that will be the only way to break the opposition down. As I said it wouldn't be needed for many games & if we couldn't keep him happy & playing well then we should sell him, but I feel it would be a good option to keep hold of him.

I agree with your assessment of Crouch (apart from possibly the bit about him not having the bottle to get stuck in) but personally I don't think that's a reason to sell him, rather a reason not to play him as often. Much as we don't like the style of play he encourages, there are occassions when that will be the only way to break the opposition down. As I said it wouldn't be needed for many games & if we couldn't keep him happy & playing well then we should sell him, but I feel it would be a good option to keep hold of him.

Fair enough Eddie.... but the role you think he could play to break down teams... is a last 20 minutes super-sub role ... in a "lets throw the kitchen sink at them" style... which Crouch himself doesn't seem to like (ego issues maybe?) - he would NEVER be in my starting 11 for a club like Liverpool FC...

I would maximum have him in a Prem sub role and permantently playing starting in the Carling Cup... BUT does the player (or McClown) want him in that second-fiddle role... I think not.

Off to Pompey then... no room for egos at Anfield... only room for trophies...

pointless getting rid of Sami. He should retire an Anfield legend not free transferred out to Bolton or whereever. I think Crouch needs the run of games to prove a lot of people wrong and I hope he does. I know a few on here really fancy Riise but for 2 years now ive said he aint good enough. Id sell him in a flash and if your going to say we shouldnt please do me a favour and tell me what he offers the team?

Kewell id give 10 games to save his career then go if hes sh*te because hes done next to nothing for us injuries or not all I can think of is his goal against Everton a good while back. 

pointless getting rid of Sami. He should retire an Anfield legend not free transferred out to Bolton or whereever. I think Crouch needs the run of games to prove a lot of people wrong and I hope he does. I know a few on here really fancy Riise but for 2 years now ive said he aint good enough. Id sell him in a flash and if your going to say we shouldnt please do me a favour and tell me what he offers the team?

Kewell id give 10 games to save his career then go if hes sh*te because hes done next to nothing for us injuries or not all I can think of is his goal against Everton a good while back. 

A lot of people agreeing that Riise should walk in Jan.

Tending to agree Sami should stay as cover and maybe a coaching role (e.g. help a Hobbs along into the first team - does Rafa fancy Hobbs? Why doesn't he give the lad a break in the 1st team vs Cardiff?)

So that leaves us thinking what do to with Crouch - the lad himself thinks he deserves more first team footie - which he isn't going to get ... so his London based Agents/PR people will slag off rotation (through the press ...again) and the vicious cirlce continues... Crouch off to Pompey I say.

Agree on the 3 changes, but include Jermaine Pennant as well. He has been given enough chances to shine but chose to stick to the 1/2 way line and hasn't got the speed to outrun defenders to the touchline to make the crosses. Frustrating to see him play. He needs to park himself high up in the opposition half, gets the ball and usese his trickery moves to go pass defenders. At the mo. he's just not doing that.

Agree on the 3 changes, but include Jermaine Pennant as well. He has been given enough chances to shine but chose to stick to the 1/2 way line and hasn't got the speed to outrun defenders to the touchline to make the crosses. Frustrating to see him play. He needs to park himself high up in the opposition half, gets the ball and usese his trickery moves to go pass defenders. At the mo. he's just not doing that.

Pennant's got a lot of talent - if he can control his temper (also noticed by Mclown by leaving him out each time).

JP was injured early doors versus Spurs and never got going...

i dont think it would hurt to sell a few of these players, i think JP and JAR coudl be good squad players but we need better talents to replace these players.
new wingers, CB cover and someone to replace crouch, as he is obviously not going to make it under rafa.

and lets face it, their all not that good are they ?

babel up front, quaresma on the left/right plus one other winger.

keep sami as fourth choice CB and provide more cover for agger.

and BTW we aren't going to any league this year, and if i remember rightly we never said we would did we.

i think a few people got excited after the derby game and then the press were on one!

For me this debate is happening a bit too soon. For the sake of argument, if rotation is affecting all our players and they haven't got it together yet, how can we tell who's had  their lot or who's not settled into the new season?

Voronin leave?    Poor bugger's just got here, he's scoring goals and working hard for us, and already someone is saying get someone better! Give the man a chance!

Voronin leave?   Poor bugger's just got here, he's scoring goals and working hard for us, and already someone is saying get someone better! Give the man a chance!

I didn't make myself too clear in my earlier post, my mistake. I didn't actually mean we should get rid of him, just that if any striker was to make way he would be my choice.

id agree with you on that actually Eddie. If I was told i had to lose one of the 4 strikers id pick him. In saying that he was super on Sunday possibly man of the match

Cruel as it may be seeing as he hasn't realy done anything wrong I would actually get rid of Voronin. There are plenty of better players who can perform the same role as Voronin,

I didn't make myself too clear in my earlier post, my mistake. I didn't actually mean we should get rid of him, just that if any striker was to make way he would be my choice.

Hi mate. In response to your post:

Was a bit suprised to read that comment about Veronin as he has done what has been asked of him... scored goals and not only that - he's worked his nuts off for the team too.
Every time he's played for us he has looked likely and shows true promise given the fact it's his 1st season in England, he has adapted very well in fact. He is not a lazy player and his all round game and vision is excellent.

As for Crouch, as I've said numerous times before, he's unique and a great asset to the club. His game / confidence has suffered becoming 4th choice striker. That perhaps is not his fault, perhaps it is. We don't see what Rafa sees at Melwood during training and the fact Veronin has been given the nod ahead of him on a few occasions and produced the goods speaks volumes to me. I would see how he performs until the January transfer window at least and give him the opportunity to deliver the goods. We all know he has the ability so he should stay put. (and play more often).

Current goal tally:
Veronin - 4, Crouch - 1.

Goals per game
Voronin   .4   Crouch   .14

Risse has been frustrating of late, his form has been lacking the true Liverpool quality that we expect of a 1st team player. Yes he can hammer a ball a hundred miles an hour into an opponents net but his all round game is lacking in certain departments. As a left-back I feel he is careless and unless I have amnesia I can rarely recall him being good in the air, an important attribute for a defender. He prefers going forward as a left- winger and I prefer him in this position. The problem here is that his crossing can be really poor at times and he has to resort to being a one-trick pony (the rocket shot). I would like to see stats to qualify my opinion in going past a man V cutting inside and shooting. In my opinion he is now 2nd choice to Aurelio as left-back and Babel on the left-wing.



Sami, Sami, Sami...! What a star, a loyal servant indeed! We all know he has forged his reputation as a one of the most consistent Centre-backs in English football. He has been a roll model and true professional during his time at the club playing in over 400 games. His reputation precedes him and while now sadly lacking in speed somewhat, his ability to read the game rarely lets him down.

To summarize my opinions if someone from this list of 4 had to leave it would be in this order for me:

1. Risse... Really needs to sharpen up his act, wicked shot but there's more to it than just that.
2. Hyypia...  Great player, good cover but unfortunately age is against him. Keep as a defensive coach.
3. Crouch...  Class and ability on his day but wants / needs 1st team football regularly - with us? Who knows, ask Rafa!
4. Veronin... Hardly a loyal servant to the club as yet. Given his current form and potential - keep hold of him.

Voronin wont be sold in January unless a crazy bid comes in, be honest i dont see anyone leaving in January, the only person ever sold by rafa in January was Kromkamp i think, but i would still like some better cover to arrive in

I can see Risse and Hyypia going but if Crouch is prepared to accept the rotation we could keep him as he gives us that different option,maybe more so as a sub though.

I think Hyppia should stay.
Player/coach kinda role.

Riise definitely needs to go. Buy a winger in return.

IMO, Crouch has to go as well. But IMO, that depends on whether Babel can adapt to playing up front or not.

I'd definitely keep Voronin unless an insane offer came.

Was a bit suprised to read that comment about Veronin as he has done what has been asked of him... scored goals and not only that - he's worked his nuts off for the team too.

As I clarified in my later post, I'm not saying we should sell him, just that if one of them was to make way it would be him for me.

I'm of the same school of thought as Rafa in that we need to have different options to be able to use in different types of games. In terms of overall skill I wouldn't put Voronin at the bottom of the pile out of our current strikers, but in terms of offering a different option I feel he's the one we could replace with someone better.

Crouch whilst not our best striker offers a completely different option in terms of hold up play, as far as I'm concerned the only player who comes close to him is Dean Ashton. Also whilst not being very good at scoring with his head he plays some very astute little flicks to play team mates in. As I've said before the role he plays is becoming less & less needed at this club, but until the day we don't need it at all I think he should stay as although there are better all round players out there I don't think there's anyone better for this role.

It's a phrase that's used often about Dirk Kuyt, but workhorse is the best way to describe him. I can't think of any other player who puts in the effort he does, giving defenders no time on the ball which often forces mistakes, so again for the role he plays I don't think we could get anyone better.

As for Torres I don't think anyone's arguing that we'd need to replace him. He's the striker that brings that bit of flair to our front line, and can create something out of nothing. Personally I think there are one or two players that could do the job a little better, but not so much better that it's worth the money which would be involved.

Which leaves Voronin. A bit of a powerhouse player who can score some too, I'd say probably the closest we have to a natural goalscorer. But whilst he may be the closest we have, he isn't a natural goalscorer, the way he laid off that golden opportunity to Gerrard against Spurs is one example. As I said before, he might not be the worst out of our strikers, but in terms of what he brings to the side, he is the one we could definitely replace with someone better for his role in the squad.

the only person ever sold by rafa in January was Kromkamp i think

Kromkamp was actually bought in January, then sold the following summer.

I dont think risse should go, just look at how much of an impact he make in the marseille game! he pushed forward more than bloody leto and the rest of them during the time he was on. shows his heads in the right place, not like everyone else. veronin is a fantastic player and you can see he is working his ass off and pushing forward, hes got strength that guy does. i dont think hyypia will leave cos he was given the option of staying by rafa not long ago and he said he had no desire to leave. im a huge fan of agger more than hyypia but he is strong down the back aswell

Hyypia should definitely stay - he's quality and a willing and able squad player devoted to the club, getting another defender is one thing but getting rid of Hyypia is sheer folly.

Crouchie should go, his attitude this season is all wrong - I can understand a player not liking going from one of the first choices to squad player status - but his performances are truly abysmal these days

Riise (Villa??) and Hyppia (Fulham interest) come to mind...

Would it be wrong to think about selling them in the January window (while there value is still relatively high) and Rafa to be looking for alternatives in the european market now

Not at all.  I would imagine Hyypia would attract attention from many clubs who would want somebody to provide some stability and try and perhaps save them from relegation.  (Although Derby are fu**ed)

As long as they get replaced I would let Riise, Hyypia and Crouch all go.  No room for sentiment in football and this season, all three have been noticeable that they are no longer amongst the best players at the club.

The bar has simply been raised in terms of quality and they are finding themselves a couple of notches under it.

Not at all.  I would imagine Hyypia would attract attention from many clubs who would want somebody to provide some stability and try and perhaps save them from relegation.  (Although Derby are fu**ed)

As long as they get replaced I would let Riise, Hyypia and Crouch all go.  No room for sentiment in football and this season, all three have been noticeable that they are no longer amongst the best players at the club.

The bar has simply been raised in terms of quality and they are finding themselves a couple of notches under it.

Fully agree mate.