The difficulty we are finding getting back to the top

Hopefully this discussion will kind of tie in lots of different points that are being banded over a few threads currently, i wondered on people's genuine thoughts on this and some of the other points i have been wondering about..

Namely:

The importance of getting top 4 and how to go about it.

The modern footballing transfer market.

How difficult it is for real big clubs to find bargains.


So just to get some thoughts out there, i was one who always arogantly thought we didnt need top 4, that we are Liverpool and we will always be a massive draw for players and that players will fall over themselves to come here, i felt that dropping out of it for a season wouldnt hurt us long term as it would be back and it would be temperary.. I was wrong on both counts, CL football and all it brings are essential, dropping out of it has set us back and getting back into it is far harder than i imagined it ever would be, mainly because of while we have fallen Man City have been artifically boosted to being a top club, Spurs have gone past us and now its essentially 6 or 7 teams fighting out for the top 4 places..
We are fast becoming a team that is swimming against the tide to try to claw ourselves back to that level, the longer it goes on the harder its becoming, essentially the top 3 is closed off right now, City and Chelsea have brought their places in there and Utd are in there through their reputation and consistency.. Arsenal should have the other place to themselves but for me have been lax in their prioritys.. As much as some of their fans slag Wenger off he has performed miracles getting them in there season in season out while selling their best players to fund the stadium.. Then you have Spurs who are having a purple patch, Everton the same and us performing below expectation making up the challenging pack..

How do we get back?
Look at City recently, they went from a middle of the table side to CL to title.. How? Money and lots of it, we dont have that money so we cant do it that way but for the sake of debate lets look at the way they did it and how we could possibly do it the same way but over a longer period of time.
They essentially turned over their mid table side with a certain batch of signings, the players good enough to get them there quickly, but they over spent on those players for what they were worth, they brought the likes of Elano, Barry, Santa Cruz, Adebayor, Toure, Lescott, Viera, Boateng, Johnson, Bellers etc etc from sides in and around them, a ready made side at a ridicoulous cost to get them fighting for that top 4 spot.. Then added the likes of Robinho etc, it showed intent, it made the world sit up and take notice and bulldozed them into the CL, so you could say the 200? million it took to be worth it? Then once they were there they ditched alot of those and turned over that side and brought in the likes of Tevez, Silva, Yaya etc to make them title contenders.. All in the blink of an eye.. And while they did that we had our issues with the previous owners and lost our ready made CL squad.. I remember reading at the time when City came along that Alonso and Torres both laughed of potential City links by saying "why would a Liverpool player move to  club like Man City" Well how many would suggest the other way around right now?

The point being you can buy your way in, which we cant do, but the theory? The system they used but over 2-4 seasons to get top 4 rather than 1? Signing the likes of Toure, Aspas, Alberto etc this summer, who none of us know how they will turn out but have talent and could be the type of signings to add depth to us and options to become a better side.. Adding 2-3 Bellers and Adebayor's to the squad to push us on bit by bit..
Im not sure it can work in a slow period of time myself as the teams above you keep improving and as we continue to miss out we then sell the "stars" of the side as they get itchy feet and want CL right now. The way we are fighting to keep hold of Suarez this summer could well happen again in 18-24 monthstime with Coutinho if we dont get the top 4 in that time and he continues to develop at his potential rate.

Can we do it bit by bit? Maybe but i think it takes a lot of luck to help the process.

The modern market doesnt help..
Prices pushed up by the artifical prices paid by City and Chelsea, the big team tax that we are always liable to, being able to spend the budget right.. The want and expectation of everybody at the club, from us to the players and the owners.. All want CL football, and want it right now.. hell need it right now.. But that adds pressure and makes every player coming in be a gamble..
Its ok us saying why cant we just go and get player A or B that that team buy's, they would improve us... But its not that easy..

So the biggest thing we may need could well be patience, and luck..

We for e need to have one last push at it this year and should we fall short then look at where we go then.. Now i dont mean by spending 200 million like City, but i mean by convincing Suarez to give us 12 more months of his career, F**k we are a better side with him in it and stand a better chanceof making it with him wearing our shirt, tell him whatever happens he can have his move next summer, then go out and spend another 20-30 million net on improving our squad and starting 11 for this season and go F***ing balls out for it, if we fall short then we wont have got ourselves in financial bother but at least we know we gave it everything, from the boardto the star player who siad he loves us and owes us.. Whats one more season Luis? Add 2-3 quality players around him and give it a right go..
sh*t if we do it then we are back where we belong and if he still wants to try Madrid then he goes with our blessings, and then spending the 50 million his transfer brings is easier as we have that level of player the CL and a rosy future to sell to them, rather than if we sell him now i think its near on imposible to convince real top players to join and then you are back in the realms of transfer gambles.. If we can add the 4-5 squad players for our zero net spend and 2-4 quality players for 30 million with Suarez to aid them then ill go into this season full of optimism.



So really where are we? Honest and brutal views.. We have to accept where we are before we can move forward i think, and we myself utterly included maybe need to look at it differently?

The one thing i know is that wherever we are we are F***ing fortunate to be born Reds..

Im sure i had more thoughts while stuck in traffic today but cant remember now..

we dont have that money so we cant do it that way

Actually we turned over 30m more than man city last year without CL and not having won the league in over 20 years..

Therein lies the problem for me. We have the turnover we just need proper steady investment to compete with the best. Nesv are trying to hide behind Ffp and a team of yes men at the club in Ayre and Rodgers. We are not broke, far from it in fact we are the biggest non CL team in the world still. We have billionaire owners. They just don't have a clue and want a well oiled steady safe investment.

We don't need a billionaire sugar daddy. Just keep suarez and invest the 50m increase we've made this year alone from tv and advertising (whilst lowering the wage bill again) and we will be well on our way to getting back to the top.

The coming season is our biggest opportunity IMO, with all the recent managerial changes. Under Ferguson, if you finished ahead of the mancs then you won the league, so they always took one spot. Moyes won't have the same level of success, simply because he is nowhere near the motivator or manager that Ferguson was.

City and Chelsea should finish top two I think, but a wobble from them and it's wide open, I think the quality of the league has worsened in recent years and there is no longer the consistency from the top teams you used to see. Then you have Arsenal and Spurs and it always seems to be Arsenal who come out on top. Spurs have potential to push on, but it'll depend on their summer, I think defensively they are very suspect. Everton are going to fall away I think, don't rate Martinez at all.

With regards to us, I think for years we've massively over-rated our players and haven't been able to figure out why we aren't where we should be. Simply we've finished where the quality of our players should be. I look at our team and I think bar Agger we could improve on our whole defence, if we go into this season with Martin Skrtel as a first choice centre half then I'm afraid we'll miss out again.  In midfield, we're still relying on Stevie after 10 years, which is a ridiculous situation and dare I say it, I think Lucas is over-rated by some and whilst a good player, requires competition. We have a lack of competition throughout the squad IMO, which is now being addressed through some youngsters pushing through.

We don't have the money (that's a separate debate) so we need to spend smart, which we haven't done, but that does appear to be changing. You asked the question of 'can real big clubs to find bargains?' well we should have a much wider scouting system than the lower clubs and bargains are out there, look at Utd signing Hernandez. Great value for money and we need to find these players, aswell as picking up players like Coutinho, Sturridge etc, who are on the fringes of top clubs and when we spend big, we have to do our research and get it right, to make sure we get a Suarez and not a Carroll.

And finally, I've been banging this drum for ages, mentally we are so weak. How many times did we capitulate last season after conceding? Or throwing away a winning position? We need to sign players with the right mentality who can handle the expectation and not sign those who think they can put in one sprint in the 90minutes and class it as hard work. Dirk Kuyt is a player who I loved and it was down to his mentality. We need more of that.

It's a big job, but we have a huge opportunity this season to fix it and it all hinges on this window. Get it right and we're back in there and this is why we need investment THIS SUMMER, not when FFP is enforced, or when the stadium is built, NOW, while the opportunity is there. Our rivals won't sit around and wait for us to be ready and we could have new competitors coming at any time, Fulham have just been taken over by a billionaire, who knows how much he will invest?

We have to be ready to capitalise on every opportunity and not look back with regrets about what might have been.

Good post willy

Sorry on my phone now, will come back properly later

Just on one point though, you mention about utd and the little pe(nis).. Yes what looks a bargain, but as part of a squad, a well rounded competitive squad, but if he was being brought into a squad as the main man, the leader of the attack, had that not worked out even at that price would be be deemed a flop?

Coutinho looks a great prospect but he has been at a top club in Inter, he understands the pressure, has developed already and we took advantage of him "flopping" somewhere else..
Had he not kicked on straight away then some of the fanbase would be on his back..

I'm not meaning to suggest its impossible just more difficult.

Actually we turned over 30m more than man city last year without CL and not having won the league in over 20 years..

Therein lies the problem for me. We have the turnover we just need proper steady investment to compete with the best. Nesv are trying to hide behind Ffp and a team of yes men at the club in Ayre and Rodgers. We are not broke, far from it in fact we are the biggest non CL team in the world still. We have billionaire owners. They just don't have a clue and want a well oiled steady safe investment.

We don't need a billionaire sugar daddy. Just keep suarez and invest the 50m increase we've made this year alone from tv and advertising (whilst lowering the wage bill again) and we will be well on our way to getting back to the top.

Wrong wrong wrong. To suggest Rodgers as a yes man is pathetic. He is the manager. He is the coach. He is the football man, not the money man. I think the problem here is that too many people want the manager to 'go to war' with the board like Rafa did with Hicks and Gillette. First of all that did absolutely no good even though it was the only option for Rafa and secondly those were very very extreme circumstances that justified Rafa going to war with that pair. Rodgers became manager on the account that he was to do it his way. Not the way FSG wanted with Louis Van Gaal coming in as Technical Director and any of that nonsense. A yes man would have accepted that but Rodgers was man enough to stand his ground on that front. And regardless of what anyone thinks, the guys at FSG have done nothing so far for the manager to create a very public war. Of course the owners want a 'well oiled' business going here. Don't we all? Did the era of Hicks and Gillette not tell us anything about how to run a football club? And what is wrong with lowering the wage bill? We're always complaining about football players being payed too much so isn't it a good thing that we're offering realistic wages once again? Do people not remember the wage bill we were paying out to truly bang average/utterly awful football players?

It says something about football when even the fans expect millions and millions of pounds to be thrown at the side each summer as the only way to success. Short term success? Possibly yes. Long term success? Absolutely not. That will come in the cultivation of a fantastic youth and scouting setup that is the envy of the rest of the nation and the continent. They say 'I'm not asking for a sugar daddy'. Well what the hell do you want then? For me I have absolutely no issues with FSG and how they are running this club at the moment. I'm pretty confident they do have a clue how to run this club. The people who don't have a clue are the likes of your Abramovich's or your Man City owners. There is no talent or no skill or any inkling of any hard work done in the 'achievements' of those two clubs. I would be physically sick if Liverpool were to go down that route and win the Premier League that way. This football club was built on hard work, intuition and sheer clever minds. Not one of those ingredients was used in the 'success' of Chelsea and Manchester City. Be careful what you wish for. I'd take John Henry and co over those repulsive figures any day.

p.s - I think some of us expect success in an instant. We think we can throw a bucket of paint at a canvas and come out with the Mona Lisa just like that. Alternatively you could just go out and but the f**king Mona Lisa but where's the joy in that? A masterpiece takes careful planning, careful construction and time.

Good post willy

Sorry on my phone now, will come back properly later

Just on one point though, you mention about utd and the little pe(nis).. Yes what looks a bargain, but as part of a squad, a well rounded competitive squad, but if he was being brought into a squad as the main man, the leader of the attack, had that not worked out even at that price would be be deemed a flop?

Coutinho looks a great prospect but he has been at a top club in Inter, he understands the pressure, has developed already and we took advantage of him "flopping" somewhere else..
Had he not kicked on straight away then some of the fanbase would be on his back..

I'm not meaning to suggest its impossible just more difficult.

Interesting points. With regards to peahead, without us ever having seen him being the main man, it's difficult to judge him in that role (unless you're an avid fan of Mexican football ) but he does seem to score every time he plays. I think at 8mill (was that what he cost?), I think people would actually be more patient, as he hasn't cost a fortune. If you spend big, you expect an instant return. Spend small though and I find fans are willing to be more patient (which is completely illogical if you think about it).

Your point about Coutinho actually marries up to the point I was making, about picking up players on the fringes of other top clubs, who aren't maybe getting the chances they want. They already understand what is required at a top club and therefore should adapt quicker. And by getting them relatively cheap, as I said above, I find fans tend to be a little more patient. If they hit the ground running then that's great, but it's not always going to work that way (especially for January deals where they come in and are playing the next week).

Interesting points. With regards to peahead, without us ever having seen him being the main man, it's difficult to judge him in that role (unless you're an avid fan of Mexican football ) but he does seem to score every time he plays. I think at 8mill (was that what he cost?), I think people would actually be more patient, as he hasn't cost a fortune. If you spend big, you expect an instant return. Spend small though and I find fans are willing to be more patient (which is completely illogical if you think about it).

Your point about Coutinho actually marries up to the point I was making, about picking up players on the fringes of other top clubs, who aren't maybe getting the chances they want. They already understand what is required at a top club and therefore should adapt quicker. And by getting them relatively cheap, as I said above, I find fans tend to be a little more patient. If they hit the ground running then that's great, but it's not always going to work that way (especially for January deals where they come in and are playing the next week).

Oh I definitely agree regarding signing players from other top clubs who are not quite making the grade, they tend to learn from their mistakes.. They made it to top clubs for a reason.

In terms of fans being more patient? To an extent yeah, but look at Borini for example, not massive massive cash, in terms of him being part of a squad and 3rd/4th option in the pecking order.. But have fans shown him patience? Not all..

Actually we turned over 30m more than man city last year without CL and not having won the league in over 20 years..

Therein lies the problem for me. We have the turnover we just need proper steady investment to compete with the best. Nesv are trying to hide behind Ffp and a team of yes men at the club in Ayre and Rodgers. We are not broke, far from it in fact we are the biggest non CL team in the world still. We have billionaire owners. They just don't have a clue and want a well oiled steady safe investment.

We don't need a billionaire sugar daddy. Just keep suarez and invest the 50m increase we've made this year alone from tv and advertising (whilst lowering the wage bill again) and we will be well on our way to getting back to the top.

We actually turned over less than City last season, 40 million less to be exact. And even then they recorded a loss of 300 million total in 2 seasons. Can't compare Man City's revenue to ours, it's a completely artificial one. They are the best paying team in the world, their turnover doesn't match that at all. 230 million revenue, 200 million wages.

Oh I definitely agree regarding signing players from other top clubs who are not quite making the grade, they tend to learn from their mistakes.. They made it to top clubs for a reason.

In terms of fans being more patient? To an extent yeah, but look at Borini for example, not massive massive cash, in terms of him being part of a squad and 3rd/4th option in the pecking order.. But have fans shown him patience? Not all..

Fair point on Borini (and I've been guilty of it myself at times), but how many other players are there? Joe Allen? I think another issue with those two is that they can be used as as stick to beat BR with, which makes it easier to criticise them.

You make a good point, but it's only in the last few seasons, when we've seen fans become more impatient, which is natural considering how long it's taking us to get back to where we should be. We went from challenging for the title to finishing 7th in one season. That's immensely frustrating and where the impatience comes from IMO. But even then, I stand by my original point, that in the main, fans are more patient if the transfer fee is low. But it's all part and parcel of playing for Liverpool, if they can't handle it, they don't have the mindset to succeed at the club anyway in my opinion.

Wrong wrong wrong. To suggest Rodgers as a yes man is pathetic. He is the manager. He is the coach. He is the football man, not the money man. I think the problem here is that too many people want the manager to 'go to war' with the board like Rafa did with Hicks and Gillette. First of all that did absolutely no good even though it was the only option for Rafa and secondly those were very very extreme circumstances that justified Rafa going to war with that pair. Rodgers became manager on the account that he was to do it his way. Not the way FSG wanted with Louis Van Gaal coming in as Technical Director and any of that nonsense. A yes man would have accepted that but Rodgers was man enough to stand his ground on that front. And regardless of what anyone thinks, the guys at FSG have done nothing so far for the manager to create a very public war. Of course the owners want a 'well oiled' business going here. Don't we all? Did the era of Hicks and Gillette not tell us anything about how to run a football club? And what is wrong with lowering the wage bill? We're always complaining about football players being payed too much so isn't it a good thing that we're offering realistic wages once again? Do people not remember the wage bill we were paying out to truly bang average/utterly awful football players?

It says something about football when even the fans expect millions and millions of pounds to be thrown at the side each summer as the only way to success. Short term success? Possibly yes. Long term success? Absolutely not. That will come in the cultivation of a fantastic youth and scouting setup that is the envy of the rest of the nation and the continent. They say 'I'm not asking for a sugar daddy'. Well what the hell do you want then? For me I have absolutely no issues with FSG and how they are running this club at the moment. I'm pretty confident they do have a clue how to run this club. The people who don't have a clue are the likes of your Abramovich's or your Man City owners. There is no talent or no skill or any inkling of any hard work done in the 'achievements' of those two clubs. I would be physically sick if Liverpool were to go down that route and win the Premier League that way. This football club was built on hard work, intuition and sheer clever minds. Not one of those ingredients was used in the 'success' of Chelsea and Manchester City. Be careful what you wish for. I'd take John Henry and co over those repulsive figures any day.

p.s - I think some of us expect success in an instant. We think we can throw a bucket of paint at a canvas and come out with the Mona Lisa just like that. Alternatively you could just go out and but the f**king Mona Lisa but where's the joy in that? A masterpiece takes careful planning, careful construction and time.

Il just assume from the tone of this post your American and a Red Sox fan. So you wouldn't swap Chelsea's or man city's success because they spent money and won? Can you name me any team that has won the PL without spending big money?

You have the nerve to slate rafa? What has Rodgers won for lfc? Maybe he should throw his weight around and get what he wants unlike the Carroll debacle last summer.

The only thing I want is lfc winning. There is the holy trinity of players,manager and fans NESV are not part if that. All I want from them is to sign the cheque when Brendan says I want this player. If the Red Sox had to go 100 years without winning again for lfc to win the league once I would gladly swap it.

As for your masterpiece analogy, il assume u know fook all about football to believe any of that crap. Football is a cruel game, winning is everything in a red shirt and its more important than life or death.

Get lfc's 50m out that the club earned and start investing to build a winning team.. That's all I need nesv for

We actually turned over less than City last season, 40 million less to be exact. And even then they recorded a loss of 300 million total in 2 seasons. Can't compare Man City's revenue to ours, it's a completely artificial one. They are the best paying team in the world, their turnover doesn't match that at all. 230 million revenue, 200 million wages.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/23/premier-league-accounts-profit-debt

This is the year where they got back to CL while we decided on sell to buy

We turned over almost 30m more and spent 20m less on wages without CL

Now tell me again how we're broke?

Il just assume from the tone of this post your American and a Red Sox fan.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Then I find it impossible to believe you could be that naive about the condition the club is in at the moment being from Liverpool

Il just assume from the tone of this post your American and a Red Sox fan. So you wouldn't swap Chelsea's or man city's success because they spent money and won? Can you name me any team that has won the PL without spending big money?

You have the nerve to slate rafa? What has Rodgers won for lfc? Maybe he should throw his weight around and get what he wants unlike the Carroll debacle last summer.

The only thing I want is lfc winning. There is the holy trinity of players,manager and fans NESV are not part if that. All I want from them is to sign the cheque when Brendan says I want this player. If the Red Sox had to go 100 years without winning again for lfc to win the league once I would gladly swap it.

As for your masterpiece analogy, il assume u know fook all about football to believe any of that crap. Football is a cruel game, winning is everything in a red shirt and its more important than life or death.

Get lfc's 50m out that the club earned and start investing to build a winning team.. That's all I need nesv for

  

Think we've got a good chance of it this season to be honest, Managerial merry go round and up upheavals, no European football taking its toll on the squad, basically if we get a good start to the season and stay in touching distance of top 4 up to the Christmas period, then we'll give ourselves a very good chance.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/23/premier-league-accounts-profit-debt

This is the year where they won the league in 2012

We turned over almost 30m more and spent 20m less on wages without CL

Now tell me again how we're broke?

No it's not from 2012, that article clearly says 2010-2011. When that article was written the figures from 2012 weren't even out. 2011-2012 they had a revenue of 231 million, 42 million more than us. You can find it all in the 2013 Deloitte Football Money League.

But to go into your question about that specific 2010-2011 season. They recorded a loss of 197 million pounds that season. And you're asking why we were broke? Maybe because we didn't record a 197 million loss that season?

No it's not from 2012, that article clearly says 2010-2011. When that article was written the figures from 2012 weren't even out. 2011-2012 they had a revenue of 231 million, 42 million more than us. You can find it all in the 2013 Deloitte Football Money League.

But to go into your question about that specific 2010-2011 season. They recorded a loss of 197 million pounds that season. And you're asking why we were broke? Maybe because we didn't record a 197 million loss that season?

For the last time we are not F***ing broke no matter what propaganda tells you. We have a healthy following,low debts,were bought for a pittance and are one of the biggest clubs in the world without any major recent success. We are a sleeping giant.

Jesus Christ we just need investment. 3 years ago we finished 7th. We didn't invest now we are still 7th. It's not F***ing rocket science

For the last time we are not f**king broke no matter what propaganda tells you. We have a healthy following,low debts,were bought for a pittance and are one of the biggest clubs in the world without any major recent success. We are a sleeping giant.

Jesus Christ we just need investment. 3 years ago we finished 7th. We didn't invest now we are still 7th. It's not f**king rocket science

Propaganda, right. You mean the same finance figures you've been using to suit your argument? You're so full of it man.

The importance of getting top 4 and how to go about it.

It depends on what sense.

In the sense of it improving Liverpool Football Club from a financial point of view and probably help us attract those bas**rds who just want to play Champions League football. But if anybody wants to just play Champions League football, win loads of trophies and play in front of 60,000 passionate fans go and sign for Celtic. Yet I don't hear too many of the money grabbing, fame hungry cu*ts crying to go and play at Parkhead. No it's all gotta be Barcelona or Real Madrid hasn't it? So it's not really Champions League football, medals and passionate fans they want. So I don't think it's all that important in that sense if I'm honest. If we were playing in the Champions League regularly again then we may be able to attract a bigger caliber of player (not that I think we've done a bad job with the likes of Suarez, Coutinho, Sturridge mind) but if Madrid or Barcelona came in for them then they would still consider the move in my opinion.

In the sense of it improving the name of Liverpool Football Club then no it's not imperative for us to get back into the top four. At the end of the day, we're still Liverpool Football Club, we're still England's most successful club and we're still a massive club across the world. I would safely bet that some puddle of the marsh in Africa or someone in the Australia outback know Liverpool more than they do Arsenal, Chelsea, City or Spurs. Arguably even United. Getting into the top four won't change that because we're still Liverpool. We will always be the same name. Our history and reputation will keep us on the map for many years to come. It'll take thirty, forty maybe even fifty years of constant domestic and European success for Arsenal, City, Spurs and City to catch us up with us in terms of name - that's providing we do F**k all in that period. So as I said, in that sense it's not important for us to be in the top four.

The way I look at it, at the end of the day if a player wants to play for us then they will regardless of what, if any, European competition we're in. If a player wants to play for us for Champions League football then they can F**k off. We're not here as a F***ing stepping stone for any player. You play for Liverpool Football Club because we're the biggest club in the world, not because we're a club who happens to be in the Champions League. As I said earlier on, if a player wants that then go to Celtic.

So to summerise, in my biased opinion, it's not vitally important for us to get back into the top four because even without it I still view it as the biggest honour any footballer can have to play for this club.

The modern footballing transfer market.

The modern footballing transfer market is a F***ing joke and I've stated this many times. How any person who kicks a bag of air round a park for an hour and half is work 80 million is sickening yet a person who saves our lives, makes the streets safe to walk (from both diseases and crime), people who bring new born lives into this world etc etc are sh*t on constantly.

The whole financial way of the sporting world, not just football, has gone crazy. And it doesn't give the right impression to the children of today in my opinion. When I see people refusing to play Test cricket to stay in the IPL because that's where the money is, pisses me off. When I see people picking and choosing snooker tournaments to play in because some are more hefty pay days than others, it pisses me off. When I see footballers holding clubs to ransom to get a higher wage packet, it pisses me off. It gives the impression that money is the be all and end all. These are the people kids look up to and the impression that is given is the most important in the world is money. Not for me it isn't.

And the transfer market is testament to that. The prices, and wages, are just ridiculous.

I think I might of gone totally off the point here. Trying to get back to the point, I still think we can find better players for less money than other clubs can who spend huge amounts. This has been proven time and time again. It also doesn't work as who spends the most who win the League despite the belief people have. It obviously isn't a rule that they believe works for the rest of the League. If it was than QPR should have been comfortably in mid-table while poor old Southampton should of been relegated by Crimbo. Why doesn't it work through the League? Oh yeah it just excuses Liverpool doesn't it?

How difficult it is for real big clubs to find bargains.

It's not difficult at all.

Quality players are around for "small" prices. The only difficulty is clubs having the balls to take a punt on these "bargains" rather than the "safer" options of bigger priced players.

It's not difficult to find the bargains, it is difficult for them to take the gamble on the bargain.

Il just assume from the tone of this post your American and a Red Sox fan. So you wouldn't swap Chelsea's or man city's success because they spent money and won? Can you name me any team that has won the PL without spending big money?

You have the nerve to slate rafa? What has Rodgers won for lfc? Maybe he should throw his weight around and get what he wants unlike the Carroll debacle last summer.

The only thing I want is lfc winning. There is the holy trinity of players,manager and fans NESV are not part if that. All I want from them is to sign the cheque when Brendan says I want this player. If the Red Sox had to go 100 years without winning again for lfc to win the league once I would gladly swap it.

As for your masterpiece analogy, il assume u know fook all about football to believe any of that crap. Football is a cruel game, winning is everything in a red shirt and its more important than life or death.

Get lfc's 50m out that the club earned and start investing to build a winning team.. That's all I need nesv for

Rubbish.

Propaganda, right. You mean the same finance figures you've been using to suit your argument? You're so full of it man.

Actually I quote all the figures unlike you who keeps telling me about how much we've spent but never how much we've sold..

Is the squad better than when fsg tookover? IMO no

Have we finished any higher since they tookover? No

Is our best player looking to leave due to frustratin with us going nowhere? Yes

Oh well at least we have less bills so we can be sold for a greater profit

Rubbish.

Insightfull response

Actually I quote all the figures unlike you who keeps telling me about how much we've spent but never how much we've sold..

Is the squad better than when fsg tookover? IMO no

Have we finished any higher since they tookover? No

Is our best player looking to leave due to frustratin with us going nowhere? Yes

Oh well at least we have less bills so we can be sold for a greater profit

The club's in a better shape. And hopfefully the team soon too, I'm hopeful yet reserved for the upcoming season.

I actually only quoted net spend figures from transfermarkt. You know what net spend is right? That's total spend minus total sold. Not sure what your problem is there. Don't know why you even bring that up when I've not brought it up in this thread. I keep telling you about it, right. And then you accuse me for picking stuff to suit my argument. Whatever dude. /ignore.