The Halfway point

Fair enough. For me, there is more than enough justification to get off the fence and back the manager. It doesn't mean that I don't recognise his and the team's shortcomings (one's you have rightly expressed) but then again I don't expect everything to be perfect in order for me to back a manager. The way I see it, like yourself is that he needs time, especially as we are progressing under him. You may disagree but personally I think we've progressed a lot more under him than we have in the previous four years to Rodgers' arrival. I suppose that's why I back him because we're (IMO) heading in the right direction, plus if I hadn't by now those splinters in my a.rse would be getting infected. 

It depends on what and where you define the progress from. Have we progressed from Brendan's first 19 games in charge.... indisputably.
Have we progressed from Brendan's second half of last season..... not really.

2012/13 second half of the season   won 10 drawn 6 lost 3 goals for 43 against 17 points 36
2013/14 first half of the season       won 11 drawn 3 lost 5 goals for 44 against 23 points 36

So having spent around £35million on defensive players (inc Mignolet), brought in Toure on a free and loaned in Cissokho we have a worse defensive record and with Suarez in the form of his life and scoring goals for fun we have managed 1 more.

Obviously it is not all about stats, and there has been some progress .... just not enough to lift me off my place on the fence just yet. That doesn't mean I don't back Brendan, just that I am not willing as yet to jump up and down exclaiming he is the best thing since Bill Shankly. I wouldn't give him a new contract just now either, I would prefer to wait till the summer and reassess then.

I think halfway through a season is a good time to look closely at what progress we have made, and in all honesty I don't think we have seen much throughout THIS season.

We still have the same defensive problems
Same dependence on Suarez/Sturridge to score (Suarez has failed to score in 6 games he has played this season..... we have gained one point out of those six games)
Same lack of balance
Same problems with transition

One thing I would like to mention that I know most people will not agree with is that I think we have missed the balance and transition that Downing gave us last season. Similar to Riera in 2008/9 he may not have been the best player to ever wear a red shirt or the most prolific but he did give us some balance.

Once we start to solve these problems ..... and I hope some will be sorted in this transfer window, I will be much more confident in our progress. The win over Spurs gave me real hope that we are going in the right direction, I would just like to see a little more proof before picking up my trumpet.

I don't have any problem with those like yourself that have already made their minds up, but like Brendan I just need a little more time.

Happy New Year
     

It's hard to say mate as we have never had such poor results against the top sides before. we have only once in those 24 years had a season with a record as bad against the top 10 sides as last season under Brendan , and that was back in 98/99 when we had joint managers, and the next season with Houllier in sole charge we were back to normal winning more than twice as many games. I certainly didn't jump on the Houllier bandwaggon from the off as I was happy with Evans and thought he deserved more time....just as I think Brendan deserves more time now. 

What I will say is that if you look at the seasons when we have come closest to winning the title our record against the top 10 sides speaks for its self.

2008/9 won 10 drawn 7 lost 1 = 37 points
2005/6 won 11 drawn 3 lost 4 = 36 points
2001/2 won 10 drawn 4 lost 4 = 34 points
1995/6 won 10 drawn 5 lost 3 = 35 points

Brendan last season won 3 drawn 9 lost 6 = 18 points

this season won 2 drawn 2 lost 5 = 8 points

I personally don't agree that you can win the league without having a good record against the other top sides, and I am not sure that Brendan has it in his locker to win enough games against those top 10 sides, which brings me nicely back to my position on the fence waiting and seeing.

In all honesty the way things are going under Brendan reminds me very much of our time under Roy Evans.... great attacking football and the thought that as soon as we sort our defensive problems out we will win the league. Defensive midfielder is the missing piece of the jigsaw (Ince).

Sadly we never sorted our defensive problems out and Ince wasn't the missing piece, maybe Brendan will have more luck.... or time?   

Although I do agree with you s@int about not being able to win the league without getting decent results against the top sides, to be honest all I was really looking for this season were signs of progress, I never seriously thought we could challenge for the title.
The way I see it we're far from having a squad capable of winning the league just yet, who knows how far Brendan could take this club if he was given the proper backing, maybe we'll never know with these owners, but I believe he's playing the right style of football.
Clearly we have a few things that need sorted out before i'll be completely happy, but we're moving in the right direction, keep in context the squad we have and the position we're in, and all in all its been a pretty decent season so far.

We are  still on course  to achieve our goal but for  me we could have been in a better  position. Those  two  games  against Hull, and Southampton  have cost us  points if you look at the table , winning those two games could have put us on the top of the table with  42 points at this halfway  point.

In the  next round we have Man city , Everton, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham    at home......we only collected  four points from this teams away  I hope we will   do better in   our home games .  This are the games we  have to win for us to be in  the top four.

Some teams are going to realise first hand that payback really is a bi*ch

It depends on what and where you define the progress from. Have we progressed from Brendan's first 19 games in charge.... indisputably.
Have we progressed from Brendan's second half of last season..... not really.

2012/13 second half of the season   won 10 drawn 6 lost 3 goals for 43 against 17 points 36
2013/14 first half of the season       won 11 drawn 3 lost 5 goals for 44 against 23 points 36

So having spent around £35million on defensive players (inc Mignolet), brought in Toure on a free and loaned in Cissokho we have a worse defensive record and with Suarez in the form of his life and scoring goals for fun we have managed 1 more.

Obviously it is not all about stats, and there has been some progress .... just not enough to lift me off my place on the fence just yet. That doesn't mean I don't back Brendan, just that I am not willing as yet to jump up and down exclaiming he is the best thing since Bill Shankly. I wouldn't give him a new contract just now either, I would prefer to wait till the summer and reassess then.

I think halfway through a season is a good time to look closely at what progress we have made, and in all honesty I don't think we have seen much throughout THIS season.

We still have the same defensive problems
Same dependence on Suarez/Sturridge to score (Suarez has failed to score in 6 games he has played this season..... we have gained one point out of those six games)
Same lack of balance
Same problems with transition

One thing I would like to mention that I know most people will not agree with is that I think we have missed the balance and transition that Downing gave us last season. Similar to Riera in 2008/9 he may not have been the best player to ever wear a red shirt or the most prolific but he did give us some balance.

Once we start to solve these problems ..... and I hope some will be sorted in this transfer window, I will be much more confident in our progress. The win over Spurs gave me real hope that we are going in the right direction, I would just like to see a little more proof before picking up my trumpet.

I don't have any problem with those like yourself that have already made their minds up, but like Brendan I just need a little more time.

Happy New Year
   

I do agree that it's not all about stats as this is the angle I tend to come from when I think about the progress we've made. I look at the performances and the ethic of the team when gauging a substantial analysis of the team. And for me, to put it simply the performances and ethic in the main has been better than anything I've seen in a good five years from a Liverpool team. Am I saying Rodgers is the best thing since Shankly, no, of course not but I certainly think we're heading in the right direction and for me he has to get credit for that warts and all.

As for our defensive frailties which are an issue, specifically the set-pieces improvement has to be made and I really wish we'd see Rodgers address this. For me, he hasn't unless he thinks just buying Sahko will sort that out which obviously it won't. Personally, I couldn't believe Skertel was tasked with picking up Kompany from set-pieces, I was horrified to see Skertel pick Kompany up again from corners after he'd already out-muscled and out-headed Skertel to score Citeh's first goal. A definite issue there.

In play, defensively, I think this issue stems from midfield as much as it does defense. Seeing us being linked with Salah? Doesn't give me the confidence either that Rodgers is addressing more pressing areas, he may not think they are issues like I do but we need to be solidifying our midfield not just looking for attacking players - do this and IMO we'll beat more top 10 teams.

I think expecting to excel the form at the tail end of last season is being a bit unrealistic and I wouldn't have expected a team to pick up that kind of form from the off and carry on like summer had never happened. But then again I suppose it's credit to Rodgers again that you are comparing the high standards he set himself at the end of last season. Then on top of that, throw into the mix new players, goal keeper etc and there is bound to be teething problems. Still, we grinded out results earlier on (had people still whinging about that), got off to the best start we've had in years and pretty much kept the momentum going, with a few poor performances and results thrown in a bit later on.

I do agree that it's not all about stats as this is the angle I tend to come from when I think about the progress we've made. I look at the performances and the ethic of the team when gauging a substantial analysis of the team. And for me, to put it simply the performances and ethic in the main has been better than anything I've seen in a good five years from a Liverpool team. Am I saying Rodgers is the best thing since Shankly, no, of course not but I certainly think we're heading in the right direction and for me he has to get credit for that warts and all.

As for our defensive frailties which are an issue, specifically the set-pieces improvement has to be made and I really wish we'd see Rodgers address this. For me, he hasn't unless he thinks just buying Sahko will sort that out which obviously it won't. Personally, I couldn't believe Skertel was tasked with picking up Kompany from set-pieces, I was horrified to see Skertel pick Kompany up again from corners after he'd already out-muscled and out-headed Skertel to score Citeh's first goal. A definite issue there.

In play, defensively, I think this issue stems from midfield as much as it does defense. Seeing us being linked with Salah? Doesn't give me the confidence either that Rodgers is addressing more pressing areas, he may not think they are issues like I do but we need to be solidifying our midfield not just looking for attacking players - do this and IMO we'll beat more top 10 teams.

I think expecting to excel the form at the tail end of last season is being a bit unrealistic and I wouldn't have expected a team to pick up that kind of form from the off and carry on like summer had never happened. But then again I suppose it's credit to Rodgers again that you are comparing the high standards he set himself at the end of last season. Then on top of that, throw into the mix new players, goal keeper etc and there is bound to be teething problems. Still, we grinded out results earlier on (had people still whinging about that), got off to the best start we've had in years and pretty much kept the momentum going, with a few poor performances and results thrown in a bit later on.

Good post mate

I am not sure that having spent the best part of £45million in the summer (gross) we shouldn't be expecting to improve mate?

I think Brendan's team at the moment is a bit similar to having a car that's great on the flat but can't manage the hills. He has spent money on new tires, new headlights and some fluffy dice but it is the engine which really needs sorting.

Although I do agree with you s@int about not being able to win the league without getting decent results against the top sides, to be honest all I was really looking for this season were signs of progress, I never seriously thought we could challenge for the title.
The way I see it we're far from having a squad capable of winning the league just yet, who knows how far Brendan could take this club if he was given the proper backing, maybe we'll never know with these owners, but I believe he's playing the right style of football.
Clearly we have a few things that need sorted out before i'll be completely happy, but we're moving in the right direction, keep in context the squad we have and the position we're in, and all in all its been a pretty decent season so far.

My only real argument against the squad problems would be ..... did we buy the right players in the summer ? Did we strengthen the areas that needed it most or were we forced to invest in the main in "future stars" that up to now have had little impact.

 

I think we're certainly in a better place than at this time last season when we had the summer transfer window disaster, a shaky start and some nonsense utterances from FSG intended to "placate" that actually just patronised.

I've been vocal in the past that I felt BR had to show more flexibility and be prepared to roll the dice a bit more and largely, I still feel that's the case. To an extent that is a product of the lack of success in the transfer window again in the Summer. It's true that we have had some injuries - and the options on the bench against both City (where we played well) and Chelsea (where I felt we were "out-manned" largely) were not great - but I still feel that we lack a plan B and we are a little short of personalities to stand up and get hold of a game - outside of Suarez at present.

I still worry about the "off days" - against Arsenal we were poor against a decent side but against Southampton and Hull were just AWOL and that has happened before.

Overall the players do seem much more comfortable with the game-plan than we were a year ago and some of the football (verve and swagger) has been superb but we are still profligate at times in front of goal (think Allen and Sterling in big games) and again I think that's a personality thing as much as technique. We need to bring in one or two with a real winners mentality - easier said than done and I'm not advocating short-term signings per se, just that we need more "knowing" in the front 2/3 of the pitch.

The defence is still a concern - Agger and Skrtel seem to be a shadow of what they were in 2011, Kolo started well but has had his wobbles and Sakho just doesn't convince me yet (he looks petrified of the ball at times - like one of those cartoon Acme cannonballs with the fuse lit). The reality is that I think hard work is the answer at the back -I'd be loathed to spend more money there with the exception of a left back. In the main Mignolet has impressed - the last two games have been worrying but at the moment they are aberrations and not habitual.

The next period will be pivotal and we need to be ruthless against Hull, Stoke, Villa and Everton in January to establish the platform before moving onto West Brom, Arsenal, Fulham and Swansea in Feb. 20 points from 24 should be the minimum acceptable return - not the 2pts per game that BR has been aiming for.

So overall I'd say mixed bag....I'm pleasantly surprised where we are following the Summer window, which was better than 2012 but still an odd one. However I do worry about the next 6 weeks where Arsenal, Chelsea, City and them all have no Champions League distractions.

Good post mate

I am not sure that having spent the best part of £45million in the summer (gross) we shouldn't be expecting to improve mate?

I think Brendan's team at the moment is a bit similar to having a car that's great on the flat but can't manage the hills. He has spent money on new tires, new headlights and some fluffy dice but it is the engine which really needs sorting.

But we have improved at the half way point, this time last year we were 9th, the year before 6th after spending 75 million in the summer.

We're 5th now and have just dropped from top.

However, I agree with your car metaphor to an extent.

Overall I'm happy with where we are.  Of course I'd be happier if we were top and pulling away from the pack but to be in 5th and still in with a shout of CL qualification, with our toughest games out of the way and our main injured players due to make a return soon I can't really complain.

We still have some issues that need resolving, hopefully with the transfer window now open some of them can be addressed.  After all we are still a 'work in progress' rather than the finished article.  I'm encouraged by some of the performances and disappointed in others but that's football, it happened in our glory days so I'm not going to get too downhearted, yet. 

The emergence of some of our younger players and the improvements to others shows we have a very good coach in Brendan and that can only bode well for us in the future.  We have a very talented squad of young players, an Academy that can and will produce (possibly already has) some world class players and that will make transfer windows less important in the future.

I predicted we'd finish 3rd at the start of the season and I think that's still a realistic expectation.  Depending on our transfer activity this month we're capable of doing much better so here's hoping for similar quality to our last January window 

But we have improved at the half way point, this time last year we were 9th, the year before 6th after spending 75 million in the summer.

We're 5th now and have just dropped from top.

However, I agree with your car metaphor to an extent.

Sorry mate, I must have misunderstood you, I read this :-

 

I think expecting to excel the form at the tail end of last season is being a bit unrealistic and I wouldn't have expected a team to pick up that kind of form from the off and carry on like summer had never happened. But then again I suppose it's credit to Rodgers again that you are comparing the high standards he set himself at the end of last season.

as not improving.

Sorry mate, I must have misunderstood you, I read this :-

 
as not improving.

I think we've gone 5th without being as good as we were in the second half of last season.

Still progress in my book.

Form temporary and all that...

I thought we'd do well to Finnish 5th with the squad we started with. Aint it strange how your expectations rise after a good run of results, and a massive improvement in playing style. Then I start thinking it could be top 2, and become disappointed when we drop out of the top 4.
Have to get my feet back on the ground and remember where we are coming from, last couple of seasons that is, and the lack of investment in top drawer players.
Bearing all that in mind, Top 4 Finnish will be a satisfying season for me. And may be a good f. a. cup run.
Todays result against Hull will have a massive part to play in that, to keep the confidence  and belief up. Gotta be a win at all costs I think.