It's the end of the beginning, so where are we at?

I think like most supporters if you'd offered me our current position after 8 matches before the season started I'd definitely have taken it. We've won five, drawn two and lost just the once, and if you'd added in the rider that we would get there playing nowhere near so well as we did in the second half of last season, it would have been even more tempting. So all things considered, I think the start (which is probably over now) has to be viewed as a success. If we continued in this current mode, we'd be in the high sixties in terms of points with six games to go and I'm sure everyone would take that. And yet like most fans I'm far less convinced about our performances so far than I was when we really hit a hot streak last season. We don't seem to keep the ball anyway near as well as we did, we don't have quite the same penetration as we did, and overall we don't look quite as good a team as we did. So what are the reasons and how can we solve them?

There are other threads which discuss the performances of individual players so there's no need to go into that too much here, but my feeling is that most everyone would agree our midfield is currently not functioning properly. This applies in ball retention, defensively, energy and inspiration. It's not necessarily a problem of formation because the same problems were there when we were playing the boss's favoured 4-3-3 as they are now we're playing 4-5-1. Defensively we still look porous from set pieces (although IMHO not quite to the same extent) and this is despite having players in defence who are fairly obviously better headers of the ball than we had previously. Up top in terms of the front two we look very potent, but the feeling from this keyboard is that the strikers are having to kind of make it happen for themselves rather than the team opening teams up. I think most would agree with the boss when he says that we've improved our "winning mentality" (notwithstanding yesterday when we definitely didn't go for the kill with enough gusto), and could it be that it is this rather than any improvements which have managed to get us over the line in so many games?

My own thoughts are that in order to get back to our fluency of last season we may need to do two things, one of which will be controversial and one of which kind of goes against the grain for me. Firstly I think we need to revisit the philosophy of "keeping the ball" as I think the pendulum towards "mixing it up" has been slightly overdone. In the early part of last season we kept it for no visible reason and it got daft, before we latterly began to hit it longer on occasions. This time around, we are overdoing the second option to the detriment of the first in my view. To this end, I'd wedge Joe Allen into the midfield somewhere and get him to do what he does best.

For similar reasons and against my better judgement, I'd wedge Danny Agger into the defence somewhere. Yes I know he can't defend to save his life, but with say Sakho and Toure alongside him they can get on with that while letting him do what he does best, namely play. As always it's a question of balance, and ours is just slightly off at the moment. Coutinho coming back will help a lot, but I believe these other subtle changes would help too.
 
 

The point about keeping the ball more is a great one Mick as we seem to have morphed gradually into a side that can't or won't keep the ball for any great length of time. I understand the manager probably looked at things and seen we are a team that is a little more comfortable with faster attacks with more direct play that he would normally use but we seem to take that to the extreme now and no longer look to keep possession and build slowly.

I agree on Allen and I'd like him in the side as well as it's clear midfield isn't working no matter who play together or in what formation and Joe is that player who does liketo keep the ball and move it simply to another of our players.

We miss Downing. 

The point about keeping the ball more is a great one Mick as we seem to have morphed gradually into a side that can't or won't keep the ball for any great length of time. I understand the manager probably looked at things and seen we are a team that is a little more comfortable with faster attacks with more direct play that he would normally use but we seem to take that to the extreme now and no longer look to keep possession and build slowly.

I agree on Allen and I'd like him in the side as well as it's clear midfield isn't working no matter who play together or in what formation and Joe is that player who does liketo keep the ball and move it simply to another of our players.

Si I was wondering about this yesterday watching the game.  Is it that we can't keep possession because we can't find our man, the opposition are closing down quickly or that our players have forgotten how to find space?

We seem to be passing to the nearest player regardless that they're being marked or launching it long because the midfield's overcrowded, in both cases we're losing possession.  It's like we're passing without the movement as when we do pass into space nobody has seen the space so nobody's there.

Also how many times did we use our flanks then had nobody in the box or in space outside the box for them to pass to? 

Si I was wondering about this yesterday watching the game.  Is it that we can't keep possession because we can't find our man, the opposition are closing down quickly or that our players have forgotten how to find space?

We seem to be passing to the nearest player regardless that they're being marked or launching it long because the midfield's overcrowded, in both cases we're losing possession.  It's like we're passing without the movement as when we do pass into space nobody has seen the space so nobody's there.

Also how many times did we use our flanks then had nobody in the box or in space outside the box for them to pass to? 

I didn't see the game yet Debs but from what I've seen before there seems to be a severe lack of movement in the midfield and when we don't have Coutinho no one really moves into to space to recieve the ball. He is excellent at passing then finding space to leave our players an angle to get the ball back to him.

Joe Allen at his best is this type of player and over the last few weeks I've been thinkin ghe might be worth looking at at the expense of Lucas, Gerrard or Henderson.

We could even move Gerrard as the 10 until Phil gets back and sit Joe in beside Lucas and maybe then we will see and keep more of the ball.

I didn't see the game yet Debs but from what I've seen before there seems to be a severe lack of movement in the midfield and when we don't have Coutinho no one really moves into to space to recieve the ball. He is excellent at passing then finding space to leave our players an angle to get the ball back to him.

Joe Allen at his best is this type of player and over the last few weeks I've been thinkin ghe might be worth looking at at the expense of Lucas, Gerrard or Henderson.

We could even move Gerrard as the 10 until Phil gets back and sit Joe in beside Lucas and maybe then we will see and keep more of the ball.

Could be a lot of things Si why things aren't working.  Still getting used to the new system, missing Phil, shoehorning players into the team when there are other/better options on the bench. 

We're approaching a tough run of fixtures which could determine our season so we need to sort it out that's for sure.

The biggest difference for me this season from the good run towards the end of last season is that last season due to the loss of Suarez we were playing with 4 more usually 5 genuine midfield players. E.g. Newcastle last season we had Gerrard, Coutinho, Henderson, Lucas, Downing. All comfortable on the ball to a greater or lesser extent, all capable of keeping possession and keeping moves going, with our fullbacks adding further support.

This season we have been playing with 3 genuine midfielders and 2 wingbacks of varying abilities. Johnson good on the ball, Wisdom, Enrique, Cissokho ... not so much. Effectively sacrificing a midfielder for Suarez and also one for the 3 at the back system.

I think we need to accept that if we want to play possession football we need the numbers in midfield to make this possible. Four at the back with adventurous fullbacks rather than wingbacks would give us an extra genuine midfield player. 

                               Mignolet

Johnson        Toure           Sakho       Enrique

       Henderson      Gerrard         Lucas

                          Coutinho
                     Suarez      Sturridge

Obviously I want to see Suarez and Sturridge continuing their partnership so I think we will have to accept we need support from the fullbacks for width.

I think we need to accept that if we want to play possession football we need the numbers in midfield to make this possible. Four at the back with adventurous fullbacks rather than wingbacks would give us an extra genuine midfield player. 

 

Keeping the ball is not as important as what you do with the ball. Better to pass the ball forwards in quick fluid attacks than forever side ways with little to no penetration. The new 3-5-2 formation definately seems to get the most out of Johnson and Enrique's attacking prowess, as well as accomodating both Suarez and Sturridge as a front man. But the wider issue is, as I've said before, the Summer was not a good window. The wrong sorts of players in the wrong positions where targeted. With Courthinio injured we lack anyone in the side who can make a killer pass. Henderson, for all his improvements, is just not capable of doing that on a consistent basis (because there has been the odd occasion where he has).

Without Courthinio we look a different side, a side bereft of ideas in midfield, and most importantly, a side that relies on it strikers to create their own goal scoring opportunities. Yes, our peformances have been sub-par for most of this season but they where considerably better when we had Philippe in the side. For all his talk of competition for places during the summer, the window was wasted on signing Center backs rather than strengthening the creativity of the midfield. Moses was chronic yesterday, as he's been in most matches so far, so until Courthinio is back from injury, I fear we're going to continue to over rely on our front men for that spark of genius that usually wins matches.

Chopping and changing formation to fit a weakened squad.

No competition for places in midfield or attack.

Our main point of contention about a player that wouldn't get in any of the top 4 teams (Henderson).

A backwards step in developing the youth, despite what we were led to believe. (Wisdom / Sterling)

Hopes pinned on the January transfer window.

Waiting, ever waiting, for news about progress on the stadium.

Knowing that we're not really top 4 material but hoping our false position in the league can convince us otherwise and by some miracle we'll cling on to it.

In acceptance that we're going to lose our best player. (Suarez)

We're exactly where lack of investment, lack of ambition gets you, in the pack behind those that actually want to win, well done FSG.

Chopping and changing formation to fit a weakened squad.

No competition for places in midfield or attack.

Our main point of contention about a player that wouldn't get in any of the top 4 teams (Henderson).

A backwards step in developing the youth, despite what we were led to believe. (Wisdom / Sterling)

Hopes pinned on the January transfer window.

Waiting, ever waiting, for news about progress on the stadium.

Knowing that we're not really top 4 material but hoping our false position in the league can convince us otherwise and by some miracle we'll cling on to it.

In acceptance that we're going to lose our best player. (Suarez)

We're exactly where lack of investment, lack of ambition gets you, in the pack behind those that actually want to win, well done FSG.

Well said. This is exactly where we are at.

Chopping and changing formation to fit a weakened squad.

No competition for places in midfield or attack.

Our main point of contention about a player that wouldn't get in any of the top 4 teams (Henderson).

A backwards step in developing the youth, despite what we were led to believe. (Wisdom / Sterling)

Hopes pinned on the January transfer window.

Waiting, ever waiting, for news about progress on the stadium.

Knowing that we're not really top 4 material but hoping our false position in the league can convince us otherwise and by some miracle we'll cling on to it.

In acceptance that we're going to lose our best player. (Suarez)

We're exactly where lack of investment, lack of ambition gets you, in the pack behind those that actually want to win, well done FSG.

I agree with everything you say apart from about Henderson. All teams need a versatile player who can come in and do a good job for the team, whether that player should be part of our strongest 11 if we want to challenge for the title or even top 4 however is a different matter. Good squad player along with Allen and Lucas, all of which we can and need to improve upon.

It's not quite that bleak in my opinion.

The owners definitely didn't back the manager enough in the summer though. We are devoid of a midfielder with bags of energy who can get up and down the pitch and contribute to the goals column. Henderson has shown it in glimpses but is undoubtedly a squad player in my eyes. Paulinho would have been absolutely perfect for this role to be honest. Schneiderlin another one I'd have looked at for it.

Think BR's mistake was spending close to £15m on Alberto and Aspas. Or over £20m on those two and Ilori. Sure, it's nice to have youngsters with big potential but we could have kept Suso for the Alberto role, and spent the money of the above two/three on a midfielder, a priority position. Ilori may become greats but Sakho/Toure/Agger/Skrtel/Kelly is MORE than enough to cover the centre back position. And that's without including Coates.

Feels like we're overloaded in a number of areas, namely defence. I think our main issue is a huge lack of squad depth or variant options in midfield, the wings or attack. Hence our bench always seeming very weak compared to other top teams.

Make no mistake though I think our first eleven is very good indeed (in a 4-2-3-1, I hope from here on in). It's just that once the inevitable injuries hit we don't have able deputies because of the aforementioned wastes of money (my view).

Having said all that, we're clearly in a far better position team and squadwise than this time last season or when FSG became owners. Hopefully we continue to build, but make the right decisions in terms of who we sign in future transfer windows.

I'm over the moon to be where we are now, I never expected a top 4 finish this season, even if we had a better transfer window in the summer if would still have been a big ask.
Centre midfield is turning out to be the problem area everyone thought it would be, we still can't deal with set pieces.
Plenty of positives though, we've got the best deadly duo since The King and Rushie, and we look very srong in central defence, and Brendan is being less rigid and is prepared to try out new things (unfortunately he doesn't have a strong enough panel thanks to FSG)

We have some big games coming up over the next couple of months, away from home, which may well be a good thing coming into the second half of the season where we SHOULD have a stronger squad.

If we cut out the sloppy goals, we should still be within touching distance of the top 4 come January.

So far so good!

Chopping and changing formation to fit a weakened squad.

No competition for places in midfield or attack.

Our main point of contention about a player that wouldn't get in any of the top 4 teams (Henderson).

A backwards step in developing the youth, despite what we were led to believe. (Wisdom / Sterling)

Hopes pinned on the January transfer window.

Waiting, ever waiting, for news about progress on the stadium.

Knowing that we're not really top 4 material but hoping our false position in the league can convince us otherwise and by some miracle we'll cling on to it.

In acceptance that we're going to lose our best player. (Suarez)

We're exactly where lack of investment, lack of ambition gets you, in the pack behind those that actually want to win, well done FSG.

Ditto

Totally agree with mick that we need to revisit last year's philosophy of just keeping the ball. Short intricate play in the midfield with Allen at the centre of proceedings on the possession front. It's incredible though that as relatively ugly as we have been we are third in the league, a couple of points from Arsenal with the belief that we can do so much better. Much better than third from bottom with the belief that we can do so much better....as was the case this time three years ago! That's reason for optimism.

2 points from the top despite playing the first few games without our best striker and the last few games without our best attacking midfielder. All that after seasons finishing 8th, 7th. Yeah it's not too bad, despite the apocalypse mongers.

The problem is we've not had a settled team all season because there has been players missing

Suarez - Suspended
Agger - Injured
Johnson - Injured
Enrique - Injured
Coutinho - Injured
Toure - Injured
Cissokho - Injured
Aspas - Injured
Lucas - Baby Born
Kelly - Unfit and then Injured

Be them slight knocks like Agger and Jose or long term like Johnson, Aly and Coutinho, either way we have pretty much had to make a change(s) to our line up/formation every game because we've lost a player and it's gotten worse since the first International break this season so it's no coincidence we only have 1 win since that time. We haven't been able to field our strongest line up all season where as Arsenal, Saints, Spurs, City and Chelsea etc have been able to so it could be a lot worse than sitting level on points with 2nd.

We are just starting to get back to a full team so I'm feeling positive about the coming weeks. This formation we are now playing wasn't right a couple of weeks ago because we had to play Sterling RWB but we now have Johnson back and Lucas will be back next game for midfield and Coutinho will soon be back in the number 10 role instead of Moses, we have the 2 best strikers in the league smashing in the goals so a couple weeks when we have our key players back, particularly Coutinho, I think there will be much better performances and more wins on the way.

Newcastle wasn't great, especially defensively but at the same time, Johnson and Aly haven't played for a while so they didn't have that match sharpness which probably contributed to the errors made, particularly Aly. We done everything we could to win that game but hit the bar and denied by Krul on the free kick at the end.

We will soon have a full strength starting 11 with some decent options on the bench too.

It's just always more frustrating at the time and I am happy to admit, I didn't feel this way yesterday but you never do when you drop points. We have one of the leagues top keepers, arguably the best defence when they all settles and gel, without doubt the best strike force in Suarez, Sturridge and Coutinho, it's just our midfield that's lacking but I have faith in Stevie, Hendo and Lucas doing a good enough job until we can strengthen, (hopefully with Xabi )

Joint 2nd whilst playing badly most of the games without a strongest line up, makes me feel optimistic about the potential of the team when it all clicks and takes off, dominating performances and comfortable victories like the back end of last season when we were destroying teams.

I do agree that 17 points from the first 8 games looks good but when you look a bit closer it isn't actually that great. We've only had one truly 'tough' game and we're still dropping silly points like in previous seasons. Throwing away a lead at Swansea, losing at home to Southampton without creating a chance and not taking advantage of a 10 man Newcastle. Those are the kind of results that come back to haunt you come May.

Hope we get into a rhythm when Suarez, Coutinho and Sturridge play together regularly.

2 points from the top despite playing the first few games without our best striker and the last few games without our best attacking midfielder. All that after seasons finishing 8th, 7th. Yeah it's not too bad, despite the apocalypse mongers.

Not quite apocalypse mongers, more realists.

Our results and relative position of those teams:


1-0 Win v Stoke (15th in the league)
1-0 Win v Villa (13th if they lose today, which they currently are)
1-0 Win v United (8th in the league)
2-2 Draw v Swansea (11th in the league)
0-1 Loss v Southampton (6th in the league)
3-1 Win v Sunderland (Bottom of the league)
3-1 Win v Palace (19th in the league)
2-2 Draw v Newcastle (10th in the league)

8 games played and we've played 3 teams in the top half of the league with a record 1-1-1, could think that could be worse.

We've played 1 team in the top 6 with a record of 1 loss and played nobody in the top 5 yet (of course we're included in that). All this crap that we're doing good because you only need to look at the league to know that is painting over the cracks that are clearly there and will soon be exposed if we don't sort them out.

We were handed the best league start we could possibly have asked for and people keep banging on about being 2 points from top, well we're only 2 points from 8th also and our season is about to get a whole lot harder than it has been. If we're still in the top 4 by Christmas, playing the way we are I'll personally be astonished, unfortunately I think reality will hit hard for some.

The problem is we've not had a settled team all season because there has been players missing

Suarez - Suspended
Agger - Injured
Johnson - Injured
Enrique - Injured
Coutinho - Injured
Toure - Injured
Cissokho - Injured
Aspas - Injured
Lucas - Baby Born
Kelly - Unfit and then Injured

Be them slight knocks like Agger and Jose or long term like Johnson, Aly and Coutinho, either way we have pretty much had to make a change(s) to our line up/formation every game because we've lost a player and it's gotten worse since the first International break this season so it's no coincidence we only have 1 win since that time. We haven't been able to field our strongest line up all season where as Arsenal, Saints, Spurs, City and Chelsea etc have been able to so it could be a lot worse than sitting level on points with 2nd.

We are just starting to get back to a full team so I'm feeling positive about the coming weeks. This formation we are now playing wasn't right a couple of weeks ago because we had to play Sterling RWB but we now have Johnson back and Lucas will be back next game for midfield and Coutinho will soon be back in the number 10 role instead of Moses, we have the 2 best strikers in the league smashing in the goals so a couple weeks when we have our key players back, particularly Coutinho, I think there will be much better performances and more wins on the way.

Newcastle wasn't great, especially defensively but at the same time, Johnson and Aly haven't played for a while so they didn't have that match sharpness which probably contributed to the errors made, particularly Aly. We done everything we could to win that game but hit the bar and denied by Krul on the free kick at the end.

We will soon have a full strength starting 11 with some decent options on the bench too.

It's just always more frustrating at the time and I am happy to admit, I didn't feel this way yesterday but you never do when you drop points. We have one of the leagues top keepers, arguably the best defence when they all settles and gel, without doubt the best strike force in Suarez, Sturridge and Coutinho, it's just our midfield that's lacking but I have faith in Stevie, Hendo and Lucas doing a good enough job until we can strengthen, (hopefully with Xabi )

Joint 2nd whilst playing badly most of the games without a strongest line up, makes me feel optimistic about the potential of the team when it all clicks and takes off, dominating performances and comfortable victories like the back end of last season when we were destroying teams.

If only we could play our strongest 11 in every game of the season!
We have SOME pretty damn good players, and if we could only keep the injuries down and give BR the chance to get a settled team, we could give ourselves a fighting chance (at 4th place).

Every player in the team doesn't have to be world class to be successful (look at UTDs squad last season  ) But there are key areas, depending on the formation and tactics deployed, where you need the best players operating to make it work, like the No10 role in BRs formation. This is where strength in depth comes in, and one of the areas where we are under staffed due to FSGs wage bill reducing.

Where's Suso when you need him?

y own thoughts are that in order to get back to our fluency of last season we may need to do two things, one of which will be controversial and one of which kind of goes against the grain for me. Firstly I think we need to revisit the philosophy of "keeping the ball" as I think the pendulum towards "mixing it up" has been slightly overdone. In the early part of last season we kept it for no visible reason and it got daft, before we latterly began to hit it longer on occasions. This time around, we are overdoing the second option to the detriment of the first in my view. To this end, I'd wedge Joe Allen into the midfield somewhere and get him to do what he does best.

Nice OP and I thought I would focus on this bit. first things first, dump this 3 at the back formation. It has served it's purpose BUT it contributes to the lack of fluency and ability to keep hold of the ball (at least in any meaningful way). It lends itself to a more direct approach because of the lack of options it presents and it limits the opportunity for players to interchange and offer good movement. Secondly get Coutinho back in the team, he will make a massive difference and if we're honest we were looking fairly fluid and decent on the ball up until he got injured. whether it's in an advanced midfield position or cutting in off the left he will make a big big difference to how we play. Thirdly I would be inclined to agree that Some playing time for Allen might be a good shout although probably not in the AMF role.

I think a lot of our games this season have been quite bitty and without a flow that we became accustomed to last season. Players playing out of position I feel is a large factor of this.

Wasn't a fan of Cissokho in midfield at all yesterday, likewise with Moses in the number 10 role. Square pegs in round holes and it is not helping the team at all.

I am confident that now Johnson is back from injury, Coutinho set to return from his lay off and Lucas slotting back into holding midfield we will see a more balanced line-up and more cohesion in our play.

Results will hopefully follow! 

fighting chance (at 4th place).

What is it with everyone and looking at 4th place? Sorry but I want us to be looking higher than 4th!

Every player in the team doesn't have to be world class to be successful (look at UTDs squad last season  )

Not just last season mate, they have had a very average squad since Tevez and Ronaldo left, they just seemed to have a fear factor about them that meant teams accepted defeat before they had even kicked off, something they have lost and wont get back now Fergie has left.

 The problem here is we've been missing our 2 best players one after another, and we've yet to play our strongest XI. This can also be said for the other teams, but remember our bench is a lot weaker than theirs. Look at Arsenal for example, they've been without Cazorla, Podolski, Walcott and Arteta recently, yet they have had a really strong team on the field. Anyway, I'm more than happy with our points and position in the table right now.

In my opinion, where we are at, is 3rd on points. Probably 7th on quality/standard of performances. Only my opinion though.

We're exactly where lack of investment, lack of ambition gets you, in the pack behind those that actually want to win, well done FSG.

We cannot continue blaming FSG for every little fault. Out of the "big six" - Chelsea, United, City, Spurs, Arsenal and ourselves, we have the largest number of defenders and fewest amount of midfielders. Whether or not FSG provided suffficent funds, it's the manager's job to get the most out of his budget and in the Summer, Brendan Rodgers just did not spend wisely, pursuing an extroidinary number of central defenders rather than strengthening the areas that needed strengthening, i.e. the midfield and full backs. There is still no real competition for Johnson and if you look at our midfield, only Courthinio and arguably Gerrard (arguably due to his age) would walk in to any of the "big six" teams midfield. Henderson, Allen, Alberto, Lucas and Sterling are all ordinary players, players good enough for the bench but not really players good enough to take us forward.

We are where we are due to Suzrez and Sturridge being in a rich vien of form but our performances have been what they have been due to the players we have who are, quite frankly, just not good enough and that's not down to FSG, that's down to Brendan Rodgers. All that said, this time last year we where 13 points off the top of the table, this year we're 2 so I'd sooner play badly and be where we are than play badly and be where we where last year.

We cannot continue blaming FSG for every little fault. Out of the "big six" - Chelsea, United, City, Spurs, Arsenal and ourselves, we have the largest number of defenders and fewest amount of midfielders. Whether or not FSG provided suffficent funds, it's the manager's job to get the most out of his budget and in the Summer, Brendan Rodgers just did not spend wisely, pursuing an extroidinary number of central defenders rather than strengthening the areas that needed strengthening, i.e. the midfield and full backs. There is still no real competition for Johnson and if you look at our midfield, only Courthinio and arguably Gerrard (arguably due to his age) would walk in to any of the "big six" teams midfield. Henderson, Allen, Alberto, Lucas and Sterling are all ordinary players, players good enough for the bench but not really players good enough to take us forward.

We are where we are due to Suzrez and Sturridge being in a rich vien of form but our performances have been what they have been due to the players we have who are, quite frankly, just not good enough and that's not down to FSG, that's down to Brendan Rodgers. All that said, this time last year we where 13 points off the top of the table, this year we're 2 so I'd sooner play badly and be where we are than play badly and be where we where last year.

First rule of building a team is get the defence sorted out.

Were we are is were we should be considering the teams we have played. Come the end of the year if we are in the same place then progress will have been made.

We cannot continue blaming FSG for every little fault. Out of the "big six" - Chelsea, United, City, Spurs, Arsenal and ourselves, we have the largest number of defenders and fewest amount of midfielders. Whether or not FSG provided suffficent funds, it's the manager's job to get the most out of his budget and in the Summer, Brendan Rodgers just did not spend wisely, pursuing an extroidinary number of central defenders rather than strengthening the areas that needed strengthening, i.e. the midfield and full backs. There is still no real competition for Johnson and if you look at our midfield, only Courthinio and arguably Gerrard (arguably due to his age) would walk in to any of the "big six" teams midfield. Henderson, Allen, Alberto, Lucas and Sterling are all ordinary players, players good enough for the bench but not really players good enough to take us forward.

We are where we are due to Suzrez and Sturridge being in a rich vien of form but our performances have been what they have been due to the players we have who are, quite frankly, just not good enough and that's not down to FSG, that's down to Brendan Rodgers. All that said, this time last year we where 13 points off the top of the table, this year we're 2 so I'd sooner play badly and be where we are than play badly and be where we where last year.

So its up to the manager to get the best out of his budget? What, do you mean the huge £16 million or whatever budget he was given?
Bottom line mate if BR was given more money he wouldn't have to search for "bargains" like Aspas and Alberto, ( Not knocking these guys, just making a point)

I'm not blaming FSG for every little fault, just the glaringly obvious lack of depth that could end up costing us Champions League football.

First rule of building a team is get the defence sorted out.

exactly, and we've now done that. I think our defence is head and shoulders above the standard we've seen over the past 3-4 years and it will only improve as they get better acquainted with our style. Let's also not forget we've got a new pair of gloves between the sticks too.
 
Personally, I'm not reading too much into the league table and won't start taking it seriously until January. That said, I think we've done well. What's more, I think we're still riding in 2nd gear and yet to hit our stride...
I expect to see our formation and play improve over the coming months and one or two new faces in January to help us push on for that top 4 place. 

I think a lot of people on here saw our first few results and got a little bit ahead of themselves in terms of our squad, the signings we made, and what is actually possible to achieve this season.

So this day last year we sat in 12th with 9 points, now we are 3rd with 17. 

We have a really nasty December coming up, but before that we have a pretty decent next 5 games in November....

WBA (H)
Arse (A)
Fulham (H)
Everton (A)
Hull (H)

I'm happy getting 11 points from 15 out of those games.

After them comes December, 21 points up for grabs,

Hull (A)
Norwich (H)
West Ham (H)
Spuds (A)
Cardiff (A)
City (A)
Chelsea (A)

Be interesting to know what people expect out of those games....  I'd be more than happy with 13-15 out of 21.

If we can get 24 points out of the 36 available then for me, that is a great outcome. 

I think a lot of people forget that it's impossible to win the league getting 3 points every game, the average points tally for a title winning team over the past 5 years is an average of 2.2 points throughout the season.

We are currently on 2.12 points per game and even if we only manage 24 points in our next 12 matches that takes us to 2.05 points per game... More than enough for a top 4 finish.
 
We have to look at the season in stages, and if we have 40 points by December 31st 2013 that keeps us right in the mix.

We have a better squad than last year, and if we can be up there come Jan, I have no doubt at all that BR will deliver some sort of ultimatum to FSG for funds.

I think a lot of people on here saw our first few results and got a little bit ahead of themselves in terms of our squad, the signings we made, and what is actually possible to achieve this season.

So this day last year we sat in 12th with 9 points, now we are 3rd with 17. 

We have a really nasty December coming up, but before that we have a pretty decent next 5 games in November....

WBA (H)
Arse (A)
Fulham (H)
Everton (A)
Hull (H)

I'm happy getting 11 points from 15 out of those games.

After them comes December, 21 points up for grabs,

Hull (A)
Norwich (H)
West Ham (H)
Spuds (A)
Cardiff (A)
City (A)
Chelsea (A)

Be interesting to know what people expect out of those games....  I'd be more than happy with 13-15 out of 21.

If we can get 24 points out of the 36 available then for me, that is a great outcome. 

I think a lot of people forget that it's impossible to win the league getting 3 points every game, the average points tally for a title winning team over the past 5 years is an average of 2.2 points throughout the season.

We are currently on 2.12 points per game and even if we only manage 24 points in our next 12 matches that takes us to 2.05 points per game... More than enough for a top 4 finish.
 
We have to look at the season in stages, and if we have 40 points by December 31st 2013 that keeps us right in the mix.

We have a better squad than last year, and if we can be up there come Jan, I have no doubt at all that BR will deliver some sort of ultimatum to FSG for funds.

don't get carried away with all this, this season more than others is pretty unpredictable so far

Nothing we didn't know.
 
Three at the back is asking for trouble against any decent team, especially if the clumsy duo of Cissokho and Sakho both play.
 
We rely very heavily on Coutinho who has only been here less than a season, and don't have a natural replacement.
 
We rely very heavily on Lucas who isn't very good and playing poorly, and don't have a natural replacement.
 
Suarez and Sturridge are very, very good. Gerrard is still our best player. Agger is our best CB. Moses should only ever play on the wing. Aspas, Allen and Alberto have done nothing, which is a bot concerning given that we invested £30m in them. Henderson has lots of energy and little else.
 
We need a CM player in January, and the Top 4 looks like it will be very hotly contested indeed.

First rule of building a team is get the defence sorted out.

First rule of building a team is get the defence sorted out not bring in an over abundance of players for a single position and ignore what is without doubt the least talented area of the team with the least competition for places.

First rule of building a team is get the defence sorted out not bring in an over abundance of players for a single position and ignore what is without doubt the least talented area of the team with the least competition for places.

That's what was so weird. Rodgers was frantically trying to sign expensive attacking players like Willian, Miktwhatsisface and Costa, and then all of a sudden we bring in Sakho.
 
Who made that call?

That's what was so weird. Rodgers was frantically trying to sign expensive attacking players like Willian, Miktwhatsisface and Costa, and then all of a sudden we bring in Sakho.
 
Who made that call?

I imagine BR did. We've been crying out for a commanding centre back for years and an extra player in that position was just what we needed.  I expect to see something more creative come in for January, otherwise prices will rocket in the summer with the World Cup.

Gerrard is still our best player.

No he isn't.

Suarez is both the best player we have and the best player in the league.

Our results and relative position of those teams:


1-0 Win v Stoke (15th in the league)
1-0 Win v Villa (13th if they lose today, which they currently are)
1-0 Win v United (8th in the league)
2-2 Draw v Swansea (11th in the league)
0-1 Loss v Southampton (6th in the league)
3-1 Win v Sunderland (Bottom of the league)
3-1 Win v Palace (19th in the league)
2-2 Draw v Newcastle (10th in the league)

If you look at it that way, Arsenal have also only played against teams that are currently in the bottom half of the table, with the exception of Spurs, whom they beat, but they also lost to the 13th Aston Villa. Same goes for Spurs, with the exception of 2 games (Arsenal and Chelsea) from which they took only 1 point; their campaign also includes a defeat at home against the 14th. But Spurs are the example to be followed (they got so many options!) and I'm afraid there aren't many bad things to be said about Arsenal so far. So you can over analyze as much as you want for all teams involved, we're doing quite well so far.

If you look at it that way, Arsenal have also only played against teams that are currently in the bottom half of the table, with the exception of Spurs, whom they beat, but they also lost to the 13th Aston Villa. Same goes for Spurs, with the exception of 2 games (Arsenal and Chelsea) from which they took only 1 point; their campaign also includes a defeat at home against the 14th. But Spurs are the example to be followed (they got so many options!) and I'm afraid there aren't many bad things to be said about Arsenal so far. So you can over analyze as much as you want for all teams involved, we're doing quite well so far.

That actually has been thrown at Arsenal and is absolutely fair. The difference is, every man and his dog can see they're also playing well while producing the results, we're not.

The difference is, every man and his dog can see they're also playing well while producing the results, we're not.

Could be seen as a positive for us Luke?

That actually has been thrown at Arsenal and is absolutely fair. The difference is, every man and his dog can see they're also playing well while producing the results, we're not playing anywhere as well but WE ARE GETTING THE RESULTS

Fixed it up for you Luke.

I imagine BR did. We've been crying out for a commanding centre back for years and an extra player in that position was just what we needed.  I expect to see something more creative come in for January, otherwise prices will rocket in the summer with the World Cup.

As most would know, I'm firmly in the managers corner and credit him with making some great signings. He is the manager, so therefore he gets credit when we do it right, but it's his fault if it goes wrong. Kenny signed Suarez not Comolli, but he also signed Downing. Rafa signed Alonso amongst others, but he also signed Robbie Keane (I never did buy any of that "It was Parry" nonsense).

As such, the paucity of our midfield options while we spent/spunked money on the likes of Aspas is absolutely the managers fault. We should have bought someone, and I suspect he was hoping that Lucas was going to rediscover his form of a couple of years ago. On that one mistake our season could hinge.

We've played some F***ing beautiful football over the past 2 1/2 years and got jack sh*t from those matches too.

So on the basis of a w*nk away performance, I'm quietly pleased with a point.

If you look at it that way, Arsenal have also only played against teams that are currently in the bottom half of the table, with the exception of Spurs, whom they beat, but they also lost to the 13th Aston Villa. Same goes for Spurs, with the exception of 2 games (Arsenal and Chelsea) from which they took only 1 point; their campaign also includes a defeat at home against the 14th. But Spurs are the example to be followed (they got so many options!) and I'm afraid there aren't many bad things to be said about Arsenal so far. So you can over analyze as much as you want for all teams involved, we're doing quite well so far.

It is  a strange league this year as many of us predicted and it will possibly take longer than normal for the contenders to properly assert themselves.
Its usually the last 10 games that determine who finishes where not the first 10

Fixed it up for you Luke.

I don't know if you struggle to read Mick but my post stated that we were getting results but not playing well and the difference between us and Arsenal is they are getting results while playing well.

Perhaps you have heard the phrase, don't fix what isn't broken?

The bone of contention is, as Si alludes to, can we keep producing results while playing badly or do you expect our performances to improve to maintain the "form". I'm far from convinced, if we play as we are I think we'll get beaten against better sides, disagree if you would, that's simply my opinion.

Will our performances improve? Well considering we're having to chop and change system to suit our lack of squad depth it doesn't give me much confidence. Coutinho coming back will be a massive boost, of that I have no doubt but so will the level of our opposition rise pretty damn sharply in the coming 2 months. My expectations, based on our level of performance is that we will possibly progress to 6th this year, 5th at a push. So therein lies my frustration and why most of us appear to have our gaze fixed firmly on the January window because we're in desperate need of help and that's the only place it appears it can come from.

I care not for all this "we're 2 points from the top, so all is well" attitude, it's naive and even Brendan has alluded to 6th place recently. Not because he thinks we'll definitely fall from where we are, he's simply tempering expectations, because he's not a fool and can see what is obvious while others choose to ignore it.

I said a few weeks back, people need to remember where they said we'd finish, and why they thought we'd finish there.
I picked 5th at best, because the top teams had better squads than us. I still stick with that prediction.
We've had a great start compared to recent seasons, even without playing anyway near our best. Last season we were able to keep hold of the ball, playing BRs "Death by football" tactics, lots of possession with not enough end product, this season we are struggling to keep possession long enough to make anything  of it.

It could be as simple as having Coutinho back, that could be the difference between us keeping this run going, and slipping down the table.

We need to stay in contention until January, and hope we get the right players in. I think we'll still be in hunt by then, we should win most of our games against the smaller teams, and we should have no problem raising our game against The Bitters, Arsenal, City and the Chavs, it'll be fingers crossed for those matches, we'll need a little luck, and a solid defence.

If another Ozil came on the market and could have the same influence on us as he has had for Arsenal could you see FSG stumping up £40mil or would they shy away with the usual look what happened before.
Its all quiet with FSG despite the stadium issue but come Jan if we are still in touch at the top they will have to show their had and their intentions for this club.

If another Ozil came on the market and could have the same influence on us as he has had for Arsenal could you see FSG stumping up £40mil or would they shy away with the usual look what happened before.
Its all quiet with FSG despite the stadium issue but come Jan if we are still in touch at the top they will have to show their had and their intentions for this club.

I'd say FSG have already made their intentions clear. You buy the players to match your ambitions for the season ahead in the summer.
Based on that, FSG certainly aren't expecting a title challenge this season!!!

Its usually the last 10 games that determine who finishes where not the first 10

All games determine where we finish, not the first or last 10.
I'm not getting carried away with our start, we still got lots to improve, but I don't see the need to play it down.
Were we 20th right now after a difficult start against well placed teams, there wouldn't be so many "buts" and "ifs" to explain the situation, it would be pure and simple despair around here, and anyone who tried to point out these mitigating circumstances would be accused of having low expectations.

I'm not one to say I only care about the results, I also care about how well we play. But it's early, we've missed important players, and I believe we have a tendency to get much better as the season progresses, and this time coming from a much stronger position in comparison to last season.

Interesting Post.
 
Supporters, Fans, Die Hard fanatics, they all mean the same in a different way.
 
How do I feel, Dejected, furstrated, angry, elated I have this feeling, I step forward 1/2 step backwards, I always want my darling team moving forward.
 
Issue: Points dropped against lowly opposition; its a Liverpool thing, we cant win against the top 4 etc. Its all about perspective.
 
A league table never lies, it doesnt look at who won who, its all about how many points on board at the end of the season. Never discount the value of momentum. Thats what affected the team last season, that back pass from Skrtel against City, the contentious decision against United etc those are the defining moments in the league.
 
This season for instance the reason we are having this discussion in the 1st place is the penalty save by Mignonet, that save is what will define our season, thats what has given us the initial impetus to perform and believe we can win matches, of course there will be blips along the way, but for me LFC are not where i'll love them to be, but I sure cant complain about where we are at the moment and the results we have had. 3 points against Arsenal is not different from3 points against Sunderland.
 
I'll take any 3 points right now.
 
PS: Stop blaming the owners, stop blaming the coach, rally round the team and lets achieve together. we dont have the best team in the league but we sure have enough quality in the team to compete to win the league. thats my take and I hope the Redmen continue to maintain this momentum. so when the difficult matches come they can approach it with belief and not caution.
 
Thats my take

I previously posted  we were 3rd on points, but 7th on performance. After yesterday against West Brom, without getting carried away, that performance was worthy of any team in the top 4. So long as we can continue on that kind of form, I would say we are where we deserve to be.
Next week will reveal if it's finally come together, or if it's another false dawn. I pray it's the former.

I do agree that 17 points from the first 8 games looks good but when you look a bit closer it isn't actually that great. We've only had one truly 'tough' game and we're still dropping silly points like in previous seasons. Throwing away a lead at Swansea, losing at home to Southampton without creating a chance and not taking advantage of a 10 man Newcastle. Those are the kind of results that come back to haunt you come May.

Hope we get into a rhythm when Suarez, Coutinho and Sturridge play together regularly.

Arsenal have only had 1 tough game and they dropped points to West Brom and Villa.


City had only 1 tough game and they dropped points to Stoke, Villa and Cardiff.


Tottenham had 2 tough games where they dropped points and also to West Ham.


Chelsea had 2 tough games where they dropped points and also to Everton.




So what's your point?

Tough at the top aint it  ?

The game against Arsenal will tell a lot. There's a bit of 'well you should be beating these teams anyway' about. Which I think is undervaluing how well we are doing in picking up points we've dropped in recent seasons.
Think we'll pick the same team as against WB. The Arse have a quick creative midfield, so we need both Hendo and Lucas at their best to counter that. Up front, we will create chances and you can't help but think we'll score, Sturridge and particularly Suarez's form is that good at the mo.

If we go 3 CBs again, and think we will, will be a tougher test. Arsenal are also scoring plenty of goals, and I just get the feeling the boys at the back are not 100% comfortable with their positioning sometimes. In a closer game, and expect at the Arse we will been under more pressure in our 3rd than against WB, Skyrtel will need to be more careful (bout giving away peno shouts), and Sahko still needs time to fully settle. Toure is a rock, no problems with Kolo. Surprised at Agger not being in the side, think he could be in instead of Sahko. Can see why Skyrtel is in, for his competitive/general pain in the ass grappling/more tigerish tackling. But BR gets paid to make them choices.

The proofs in the pudding. BR hasn't done much wrong yet this season. Two form sides, hoping for a cracking game. Can't wait

Great Article,Bmick.. I would drop Skrtel just because he looks like he's going to give away a pen very soon or get a redcard for grappling, i would bring Agger back now as we all know he's our best CB when fully fit, stick Sakho in the middle and put Agger LCB with Kolo RCB....What are your thoughts on that guys.

The bone of contention is, as Si alludes to, can we keep producing results while playing badly or do you expect our performances to improve to maintain the "form". I'm far from convinced, if we play as we are I think we'll get beaten against better sides, disagree if you would, that's simply my opinion. [/size]Will our performances improve? Well considering we're having to chop and change system to suit our lack of squad depth it doesn't give me much confidence. Coutinho coming back will be a massive boost, of that I have no doubt but so will the level of our opposition rise pretty damn sharply in the coming 2 months. My expectations, based on our level of performance is that we will possibly progress to 6th this year, 5th at a push. So therein lies my frustration and why most of us appear to have our gaze fixed firmly on the January window because we're in desperate need of help and that's the only place it appears it can come from.I care not for all this "we're 2 points from the top, so all is well" attitude, it's naive and even Brendan has alluded to 6th place recently. Not because he thinks we'll definitely fall from where we are, he's simply tempering expectations, because he's not a fool and can see what is obvious while others choose to ignore it.

I think your apocalyptic doom mongering and your "bone of contention" about our performances improving has been answered in light of your bleak outlook - see West Brom, 4-1.

We are in the top 4 when teams around us with better squads playing better football arnt, so we have to be happy and if people are not happy with how are season has gone so far your on glue.. who would have took this league position after 9 games?? all of us, and the fact that apart from West Brom and Man u in the cup are performances have not been that  great is a good thing; as it means as we improve we grow stronger and stronger. Arsenal have only really had a handfull of good performance and were lucky not to loose against Palace. Our next game will be a real test for both us and Arsenal as we've not really been tested. Dec is a hard month for us but if we can come out of the other side still in top 4 then we have a real chance of top 4.

southampton have probaly been the best team performance wise in the league as all of there games have been exciting to watch and they've been tough to beat but there not higher than us and at the end of the day all that matters is points and league postion like the great King Kenny said. "we all add all the points up at the end of the season and see where we finish" performance mean nothing if you dont win games, Man u dominated the league for the last 10yrs and most of their performances where rubbish, Chelsea won the leaugue playing rubbish getting 1-0 wins.

Great Article,Bmick.. I would drop Skrtel just because he looks like he's going to give away a pen very soon or get a redcard for grappling, i would bring Agger back now as we all know he's our best CB when fully fit, stick Sakho in the middle and put Agger LCB with Kolo RCB....What are your thoughts on that guys.

I just don't get this undue criticism of Skrtel. The guy made a wonderful goal line clearance against WBA and did absolutely nothing wrong. Agreed it's better to have a ball playing defender but a defender's first job is to defend and I am more assured when I see Skrtel in the defence than Agger. Also in Toure, we have a decent ball playing one.

I just don't get this undue criticism of Skrtel. The guy made a wonderful goal line clearance against WBA and did absolutely nothing wrong. Agreed it's better to have a ball playing defender but a defender's first job is to defend and I am more assured when I see Skrtel in the defence than Agger. Also in Toure, we have a decent ball playing one.

Its a tricky one as i've always and still do rate Skrtel but I just think Agger offers a bit more with the ball at his feet than Skrtel does, maybe as the season goes on we will see Kolo getting a rest with Skrtel RCB, Sakho CB and Agger LCB which would be our most athletic combination plus agger and Skrtel are used to playing together.

I think its also down to our 5 key rivals. They've all got the distraction of Europe/cups. Maybe there'll be some fall-outs amongst their big all star squads(Chel, Man C, Spurs etc). Maybe Moyes will lose his bottle at the Mancs. Maybe Ozil will pick up an injury at Arsenal. Ofcourse highly speculative, but we need 2 of the 5 rivals to slip up somehow, IMO.


Ofcourse we are currently high in the table. But in the next 10 games, we have 5 REALLY tough ones. I think the objective should be to come out of that "unscathed" ie with a "good" if less than brilliant pts tally. Because after that, its only 1 mega tough away game left.


2 really top class signings in (and happily move 2 squad players out) could make a real difference to our chances of 4th. I doubt we'll see that. Maybe 1 will come in.


Its all down to the mdfield IMO. Because its not clear who will come in if Stevie, Lucas and Henderson are injured. Likewise, it would be nice to see the defence settled, because there are some real quality players there and certainly the foundation of a solid defence, even if there have been some jitters.


Likewise, if Luis and Sturridge can stay fresh and sharp, that will help a huge amount.


Unlike some, I actually think a back 3 + wingbacks, whilst not perfect, does actually help in terms of thinness we have in midfield.

I think we are about where I would have hoped but honestly didn't expect us to be. I really think we need to make hay while the sun shines though. Like many of the sides with limited quality reserves we probably won't do quite as well if injuries and suspensions kick in . Thanks to our early exit from the League cup we have a relatively small number of games which should help reduce the games where we need to play a weakened team, but coming toward Christmas we may hit a few problems with the congestion of fixtures.

Injuries and suspensions to our midfield players or indeed our strikers could seriously affect our season, which is one of the reasons I think FSG need to pour some money into Brendan's coffers after Christmas, rather than just seeing how we go this season.

A cup run and title challenge is my hope, but unless we buy after Christmas a top 4 challenge may be the best we can expect.

The win against W.B.A. has given me hope, a similar performance and a good result against Arsenal would give me renewed faith.

I think the next few games starting with Arsenal will give a much better indication of where we are and where we can expect to be. I still have a fear that everything could go tits up, just hoping against hope that they won't.

It's a shame that so many of our rivals have a similarly strong start tot the season. The mancs might be having a tough time but Arsenal, Spurs, City and Chelsea are all going pretty well and The bitters look like they will hang around the higher end of the table so we haven't got ourselves the head start we might have hoped for but we cpuld have been well put of the running already had we endured a poor start. The trick now is to continue turning over the teams we should beat and see if the lads can pick up a result or two in the big games away from home

I think we are about where I would have hoped but honestly didn't expect us to be. I really think we need to make hay while the sun shines though. Like many of the sides with limited quality reserves we probably won't do quite as well if injuries and suspensions kick in . Thanks to our early exit from the League cup we have a relatively small number of games which should help reduce the games where we need to play a weakened team, but coming toward Christmas we may hit a few problems with the congestion of fixtures.

Injuries and suspensions to our midfield players or indeed our strikers could seriously affect our season, which is one of the reasons I think FSG need to pour some money into Brendan's coffers after Christmas, rather than just seeing how we go this season.

A cup run and title challenge is my hope, but unless we buy after Christmas a top 4 challenge may be the best we can expect.

The win against W.B.A. has given me hope, a similar performance and a good result against Arsenal would give me renewed faith.

I think the next few games starting with Arsenal will give a much better indication of where we are and where we can expect to be. I still have a fear that everything could go tits up, just hoping against hope that they won't.

How i feel. Well said.

Probably one central midfielder and one attacker away from feeling "comfortable" about our squad.

Probably one central midfielder and one attacker away from feeling "comfortable" about our squad.

Agree Crouchy.

I actually think the sqaud is very good at the minute and with Coutinho coming back along with the from of Henderson it shows we are stronger than we have been in a while.

But like you if we had one more forward and another quality midfield player then we really would have a title challenging squad.

How i feel. Well said.

Probably one central midfielder and one attacker away from feeling "comfortable" about our squad.

did you see the Chelsea side tonight 10 changes and they still beat Arsenal now that's a squad with quality in depth it makes you realise how small ours is.Good job we only have the league and FA cup games left this season.

did you see the Chelsea side tonight 10 changes and they still beat Arsenal now that's a squad with quality in depth it makes you realise how small ours is.Good job we only have the league and FA cup games left this season.

Yep, you can't compare our squad to Chavski, or ManCity. There's 30Mill Willian, someone we hoped to get, that Maureen nabbed, and the guy has hardly played for em, 30mill warming the bench. Or the Arse midfield - Ozil/Cazorla/Wishere/Ramsey - but then you have Walcott/Arteta/Oxlade/Flamini/Diaby/Rosicky. We just don't have the same strength in depth.
That's why imo I feel the manager and players deserve so much credit, for the start they've made this season.

did you see the Chelsea side tonight 10 changes and they still beat Arsenal now that's a squad with quality in depth it makes you realise how small ours is.Good job we only have the league and FA cup games left this season.

Yer good point, and shows how small the arsenal squad is also. Hopefully we can get a CL spot and get in a few more top qualaty players or the ones we have improve

did you see the Chelsea side tonight 10 changes and they still beat Arsenal now that's a squad with quality in depth it makes you realise how small ours is.Good job we only have the league and FA cup games left this season.

But that's never going to change unless we get a huge injection of cash.
 
Mourinho, in classic disingenuous, hypocritical bullshit mode, bangs on about "financial sharks", and yet his "reserve" team has players like Willian, Mata, De Bruyne and Luiz who cost about £100m between them.
 
We can't compete with that, which is why teams like Chelsea and City win loads of trophies and we don't.

How i feel. Well said.

Probably one central midfielder and one attacker away from feeling "comfortable" about our squad.

Yeah, agreed. Look at the teams we are competing against for the Top 4: Chelsea will finish above us, certainly. Arsenal almost always do, and they look better this year. City have a wildly expensive and huge squad. Realistically, there is one place up for grabs and Spurs, Everton, Southampton and United are all competing for it.

I think FSG will invest even more than they have this summer especially if we make CL or get back into Europa. but if we finish outside either competition then we are in a world of pain as BR was told get CL football back.

Difference with Chelsea's squad is they are playing in Europe, too. So they'll naturally need a bigger squad.

Oh and they're rich.