Trending Topics

      Next match: v [] Thu 1st Jan @ 1:00 am

      Today is the 1st of June and on this date LFC's match record is P6 W4 D2 L0

      Buying the next big thing

      Read 11382 times
      0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
      manwithnoname
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
      • ****
      • Started Topic

      • 991 posts | 31 
      Buying the next big thing
      Oct 22, 2013 12:55:51 pm
      We've long had a history of generating brilliant players from the Academy like Gerrard, Carragher, Fowler and Owen.
       
      We've also done our fair share of plundering the best young-ish talent from smaller clubs that go on to be brilliant for us: Rush, Hansen, Nicol, Hyypia, Riise, Agger, Reina, Whelan, Alonso (that's a bit tenuous that one...)
       
      And a number of dismal failures. I still remember Mark Kennedy.
       
      So, the likes of Coutinho and Sturridge look like they might fall into that category too. And we're linked with that lad from Derby County. So, who would be your tip for us to take a punt on? Who's the next big thing that isn't so big he'd cost us £50m?
       
      Please be a central midfielder.
      AmericanPlant
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,248 posts | 170 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #1: Oct 22, 2013 01:03:33 pm
      We've long had a history of generating brilliant players from the Academy like Gerrard, Carragher, Fowler and Owen.
       
      We've also done our fair share of plundering the best young-ish talent from smaller clubs that go on to be brilliant for us: Rush, Hansen, Nicol, Hyypia, Riise, Agger, Reina, Whelan, Alonso (that's a bit tenuous that one...)
       
      And a number of dismal failures. I still remember Mark Kennedy.
       
      So, the likes of Coutinho and Sturridge look like they might fall into that category too. And we're linked with that lad from Derby County. So, who would be your tip for us to take a punt on? Who's the next big thing that isn't so big he'd cost us £50m?
       
      Please be a central midfielder.


      I think the next big thing was always someone who cost a big fee.
      Lawrenson, Souness, Dalglish, the Rush re-signing, Torres, Masch etc


      Signing potential is great. But you have to remember he could be a Hyypia (1 in 40 or 50) but the 2.7m is most likely gonna get you a Josemi.


      Just as club incomes keep rising, so will the costs of players, teenage or older.
      I think Britain produces physical, athletic players. Sometimes finishers.


      But if you want flair and super skills, its generally better to go abroad.
      Infact, you look at the top defensive midfielders in the PL. Its amazing, a number of them arent British, they're actually Brazillian or S American etc.

      It costs money to develop an array of kids.  Once u look at all the duds, its not guaranteed that the winner will compensate for the duds.
      Infact, academies are actually a dodge around the Financial Fair Play nonsense (that big clubs will ignore anyway)[size=78%].[/size]
      bigmick
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,078 posts | 2767 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #2: Oct 22, 2013 01:17:43 pm
      I'll have a go and risk the derision, why not.

      Fabian Delph at Villa is developing fast at the moment and he might make a player. Luke Shaw fairly obviously is going to be a player, and I think we already have one in Andre Wisdom. The dogs are barking down at Chelsea about Bertrande Traore who they rate very highly, and as there's a problem with his work permit qualification he may become steal able further down the line.
      reddebs
      • "LFC Hipster"
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 17,980 posts | 2264 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #3: Oct 22, 2013 02:32:22 pm
      I'll stick my neck out and say it'll be Will Hughes. 

      He'll cost upwards of £10m but wouldn't feature much in the 1st team for a couple of seasons and therein lies the problem.  We have several players the same age at our Academy who may well turn out to be better than Will but if they aren't playing at a higher level every week we'll never know. 
      Tayls
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 5,378 posts | 510 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #4: Oct 22, 2013 02:56:33 pm
      Zakaria Bakkali from PSV (17 y.o) is certainly one to watch, got a hattrick in his second ever appearance.

      Will Hughes does look one of the most promising in the Championship.

      Probably far too many to list, and many none of us have heard of, but these are two that I've watched myself and rate pretty highly. By no means are they going to be cheap.

      Although I'll go ahead and be biased and say Harry Wilson is going to be fantastic if he keeps working hard and develops well. And he won't cost a penny! ;)
      manwithnoname
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
      • ****
      • Started Topic

      • 991 posts | 31 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #5: Oct 22, 2013 02:56:47 pm

      I think the next big thing was always someone who cost a big fee.
      Lawrenson, Souness, Dalglish, the Rush re-signing, Torres, Masch etc


      Hmmm. You're probably right. Even the players that are no more than "a chance" quite often cost millions. But I suppose Xabi is a good recent example. £10m was a calculated risk.
       
      Where's the next Xabi?!
      Red5man
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,616 posts | 76 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #6: Oct 22, 2013 02:59:32 pm
      My shout was Remy Cabella this summer and he's in fine form and will be bought by a big club soon.

      I will say Alvaro Vadillo. Although he is a bit better known already than Cabella was last summer.
      manwithnoname
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
      • ****
      • Started Topic

      • 991 posts | 31 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #7: Oct 22, 2013 02:59:58 pm
      I'll have a go and risk the derision, why not.

      Fabian Delph at Villa is developing fast at the moment and he might make a player. Luke Shaw fairly obviously is going to be a player, and I think we already have one in Andre Wisdom. The dogs are barking down at Chelsea about Bertrande Traore who they rate very highly, and as there's a problem with his work permit qualification he may become steal able further down the line.

      Yes, I have liked Delph since I saw him play once for the team he was at before Villa. Leeds, I think. Anyway, he is promising.
       
      They're all a risk, though. Damn it.
      racerx34
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 33,665 posts | 3899 
      • THE SALT IN THE SOUP
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #8: Oct 22, 2013 03:16:51 pm
      I'm not sure about next big thing,
      but there are a couple of players in the Premier League that I think we could get
      for reasonable money and improve our squad.

      Gary Medel at Cardiff would give us badly needed competition with Lucas.
      Robbie Brady at Hull has been very good for them, but I quite like Lallana
      for Southampton and he also plays on the left.
      harrydunn08
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 5,930 posts | 970 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #9: Oct 22, 2013 03:17:58 pm
      Sadly, I think I think the next big thing for England is Ross Barkley....  :(
      manwithnoname
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
      • ****
      • Started Topic

      • 991 posts | 31 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #10: Oct 22, 2013 03:37:40 pm
      Sadly, I think I think the next big thing for England is Ross Barkley....  :(

      Yes, he looks very good indeed.
       
      Still, we can always hope he joins the seemingly endless conveyor belt of Bitter rejects who were once lauded as the next Owen, the next Fowler, the next whoever, and ended up playing for Doncaster after two years.
      RedLFCBlood
      • Guest
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #11: Oct 22, 2013 07:34:23 pm
      We've already got the Next Big Thing and he's a Midfielder, Jesús Joaquín Fernández Sáez de la Torre, he's going to be the fulcrum of the Spanish national team for many years to come and hopefully ours too, he'll be our Xabi.
      ORCHARD RED
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 8,526 posts | 1457 
      • 6 Times!
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #12: Oct 22, 2013 07:58:18 pm
       
      We've already got the Next Big Thing and he's a Midfielder, Jesús Joaquín Fernández Sáez de la Torre, he's going to be the fulcrum of the Spanish national team for many years to come and hopefully ours too, he'll be our Xabi.
      I can just see people now, scratching their heads saying " who the hell is that"? :-) Suso is going to be awesome for us when he returns.
      After watching Teixeira playing for the the reserves, it looks like he is on the verge of fulfilling his potential also.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #13: Oct 22, 2013 08:22:37 pm
      I can just see people now, scratching their heads saying " who the hell is that"? :-) Suso is going to be awesome for us when he returns.
      After watching Teixeira playing for the the reserves, it looks like he is on the verge of fulfilling his potential also.

      I've hardly seen anything of the reserves, but I keep reading we have some cracking young players.

      If that's the case, hopefully we won't need to buy "the next big thing".
      Scottbot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,627 posts | 2161 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #14: Oct 22, 2013 08:22:38 pm
      Must admit I think this could be the way for us to go. Arsenal and Spurs were bold in the way they moved for young British players like Bale, Walcott and Chamberlain. Also given that we seem to struggling to compete with our rivals now in terms of having the funds and be able to offer guaranteed Champions League football spending over the odds in order to steal a march on our rivals in terms of buying undoubted talent that has yet to peak makes some sense.


      Take young Will Hughes for example, if we're really serious about this kid then get the deal done this January, let him stay at Derby for the rest of the season and bring him in during the summer. I suspect that a host of other clubs will be in for him in the summer so if the club believe he will be a player then do it now.


      When I heard Wisdom had just gone on loan to Derby I did actually wonder if that might open some doors for a potential bid?
      reddebs
      • "LFC Hipster"
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 17,980 posts | 2264 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #15: Oct 22, 2013 08:46:50 pm
      I've hardly seen anything of the reserves, but I keep reading we have some cracking young players.

      If that's the case, hopefully we won't need to buy "the next big thing".

      We have a glut of cracking midfielders mate. 

      Not all will make it obviously but from age 16 to 20 we've got Suso, Texeira, Adorjan, Lussey, DTS, Dunn, Branagan, Rossiter, Wilson, Pelosi, Kent who all spring to mind as having enough about them to be successful. 

      Add to them Coutinho and Alberto I'm sure we won't need to spend hugely to find the next big thing.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #16: Oct 22, 2013 08:51:23 pm
      We have a glut of cracking midfielders mate. 

      Not all will make it obviously but from age 16 to 20 we've got Suso, Texeira, Adorjan, Lussey, DTS, Dunn, Branagan, Rossiter, Wilson, Pelosi, Kent who all spring to mind as having enough about them to be successful. 

      Add to them Coutinho and Alberto I'm sure we won't need to spend hugely to find the next big thing.

      Thanks for the info reddebs :)

      I really must try and watch more reserve and youth football.
      Scottbot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,627 posts | 2161 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #17: Oct 22, 2013 08:59:36 pm
      We have a glut of cracking midfielders mate. 

      Not all will make it obviously but from age 16 to 20 we've got Suso, Texeira, Adorjan, Lussey, DTS, Dunn, Branagan, Rossiter, Wilson, Pelosi, Kent who all spring to mind as having enough about them to be successful. 

      Add to them Coutinho and Alberto I'm sure we won't need to spend hugely to find the next big thing.

      To be honest Debs I think that as fans we tend to view every batch of youngsters in a very positive way, usually because they re doing well within their own level but ultimately, for almost all of them (and us) it ends in disappointment. I would argue that young Will Hughes who has been a full time starter at Derby this past 12 months is probably a much better bet to make it in the epl than any of the lads you have mentioned from our own program. I know we have got some good lads in there and reports suggest that young Rossiter is very much the one to watch, I think Ibe has a real shot and fingers crossed Suso is still in the managers plans.
      reddebs
      • "LFC Hipster"
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 17,980 posts | 2264 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #18: Oct 22, 2013 09:00:16 pm
      Thanks for the info reddebs :)

      I really must try and watch more reserve and youth football.

      You should mate, they're all live on lfctv which is on freeview if in the uk.  Get them on record and spend some time watching the Reds of the future  ;)
      RedLFCBlood
      • Guest
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #19: Oct 22, 2013 09:01:46 pm
      I can just see people now, scratching their heads saying " who the hell is that"? :-) Suso is going to be awesome for us when he returns.
      After watching Teixeira playing for the the reserves, it looks like he is on the verge of fulfilling his potential also.

      I think Suso has everything in his locker to be atop top player, I'd have no qualms with throwing him into our central midfield now if he was here, his natural talent never really shone playing for us wide left in the front 3 as he's not that type of player, he's a play maker and he needs to be pulling the strings from the middle of the pitch to utilise his best abilities.
      reddebs
      • "LFC Hipster"
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 17,980 posts | 2264 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #20: Oct 22, 2013 09:07:51 pm
      To be honest Debs I think that as fans we tend to view every batch of youngsters in a very positive way, usually because they re doing well within their own level but ultimately, for almost all of them (and us) it ends in disappointment. I would argue that young Will Hughes who has been a full time starter at Derby this past 12 months is probably a much better bet to make it in the epl than any of the lads you have mentioned from our own program. I know we have got some good lads in there and reports suggest that young Rossiter is very much the one to watch, I think Ibe has a real shot and fingers crossed Suso is still in the managers plans.

      They all need to be playing mate, simple as.  Playing only 20 odd games a season against lads of a similar age once your 19/20 is doing nothing to develop them.  We also have too many who won't make it at all and need moving on asap.  Hopefully now we have the new management in place at the Academy it'll be a priority so we can really offer a clear route into the 1st team, not just to Melwood.
      KopiteLuke
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 21,056 posts | 3784 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #21: Oct 22, 2013 09:09:08 pm
      I think Suso has everything in his locker to be atop top player, I'd have no qualms with throwing him into our central midfield now if he was here, his natural talent never really shone playing for us wide left in the front 3 as he's not that type of player, he's a play maker and he needs to be pulling the strings from the middle of the pitch to utilise his best abilities.

      I agree mate, didn't like how near the end of last season though he seemed to be shooting on sight as if it had been drummed into him to do so.

      That wasn't his natural game and seemed completely unnatural for him to do it so much. I questioned whether Brendan had specifically told him to add goals, or simply shoot more. Obviously no proof, just a suspicion because of the dramatic change in his play style. Would be like Coutinho shooting at every given opportunity, you'd know something had been said.

      Like you say, if he was brought in and given license just to play his game and not worry about statistics he would be ideal back-up for Coutinho and we've certainly missed that.
      Scottbot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,627 posts | 2161 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #22: Oct 22, 2013 09:15:27 pm
      They all need to be playing mate, simple as.  Playing only 20 odd games a season against lads of a similar age once your 19/20 is doing nothing to develop them.  We also have too many who won't make it at all and need moving on asap.  Hopefully now we have the new management in place at the Academy it'll be a priority so we can really offer a clear route into the 1st team, not just to Melwood.



      Problem is there is no clear route into the first team, you've got to kick the door down to get there, particularly without the Europa League opportunities. I was gutted we didn't qualify for this very reason because last year it was a decent competition for blooding players like Suso, Robinson, Sterling etc

      With the under 21s league up and running it does mean that you can be more patient with these kids, keep them for longer and get them out on loan once they hit 18 so perhaps that is the way forward. Certainly with someone like Tom Ince we might have been able to keep him but with a view to him going on a long term loan.
      srslfc
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 32,347 posts | 4967 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #23: Oct 22, 2013 09:24:31 pm
      Buying the next big thing?

      We might already have if the manager bothered to give him a chance.

      Luis Alberto.
      ORCHARD RED
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 8,526 posts | 1457 
      • 6 Times!
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #24: Oct 22, 2013 09:26:44 pm
      I agree mate, didn't like how near the end of last season though he seemed to be shooting on sight as if it had been drummed into him to do so.

      That wasn't his natural game and seemed completely unnatural for him to do it so much. I questioned whether Brendan had specifically told him to add goals, or simply shoot more. Obviously no proof, just a suspicion because of the dramatic change in his play style. Would be like Coutinho shooting at every given opportunity, you'd know something had been said.

      Like you say, if he was brought in and given license just to play his game and not worry about statistics he would be ideal back-up for Coutinho and we've certainly missed that.
      I'm not sure if it's likely, but bringing Suso back in January would make sense to me. It would give BR more attacking options, and he'd learn a lot from Coutinho. He should never have been loaned out in the first place.
      srslfc
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 32,347 posts | 4967 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #25: Oct 22, 2013 09:28:37 pm
      I'm not sure if it's likely, but bringing Suso back in January would make sense to me.

      Wouldn't make sense to me.

      Only league and possible FA Cup games after January and as we've seen Brendan has had the perfect opportunity to play a player such as Suso i.e. in the 10 position but intead chooses to play his loanee winger there.

      Waste of Suso's development to bring him back to sit on his arse.
      ORCHARD RED
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 8,526 posts | 1457 
      • 6 Times!
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #26: Oct 22, 2013 09:34:58 pm
      Wouldn't make sense to me.

      Only league and possible FA Cup games after January and as we've seen Brendan has had the perfect opportunity to play a player such as Suso i.e. in the 10 position but intead chooses to play his loanee winger there.

      Waste of Suso's development to bring him back to sit on his arse.
      I believe Brendan does like Suso, if he came back, i'd say he'd get some game time. Pretty sure FSG decided that he should go out on loan as part of their cost cutting.
      KopiteLuke
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 21,056 posts | 3784 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #27: Oct 22, 2013 09:35:03 pm
      Wouldn't make sense to me.

      Only league and possible FA Cup games after January and as we've seen Brendan has had the perfect opportunity to play a player such as Suso i.e. in the 10 position but intead chooses to play his loanee winger there.

      Waste of Suso's development to bring him back to sit on his arse.

      I agree with that mate, but it could have cost us much more being without a 10 for so long. As you say Alberto should have played there and I've no clue, reason or understanding why Brendan would buy him, watch Coutinho get injured and then fail to play him there.

      Definitely a mistake by Brendan that in my opinion, either in purchasing the wrong player or not playing players in their correct positions.
      srslfc
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 32,347 posts | 4967 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #28: Oct 22, 2013 09:39:43 pm
      I believe Brendan does like Suso, if he came back, i'd say he'd get some game time. Pretty sure FSG decided that he should go out on loan as part of their cost cutting.

      He may well do like Suso mate and your probably right that he had to send him out on loan partly to cut on wages but the fact remains Brendan bought a similar player in Alberto so you'd presume Brendan liked him but chooses not to play him when he has the chance.

      You can see why I think he wouldn't make the best use of Suso if he recalled him from loan.
      ORCHARD RED
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 8,526 posts | 1457 
      • 6 Times!
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #29: Oct 22, 2013 09:42:40 pm
      I'd be surprised if BR had even heard of Alberto before the summer! More likely that the scouts were asked to find some cheap players, and that he and Aspas were presented to Brendan.
      I wonder how many of our new recruits were actually on Brendans wish list?
      srslfc
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 32,347 posts | 4967 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #30: Oct 22, 2013 09:49:21 pm
      I'd be surprised if BR had even heard of Alberto before the summer! More likely that the scouts were asked to find some cheap players, and that he and Aspas were presented to Brendan.
      I wonder how many of our new recruits were actually on Brendans wish list?

      I don't buy that mate. He's on the transfer committee and has a say in what players eventually end up coming here.

      If he really didn't fancy Alberto and Aspas he could have done FSG a massive favour and told him he already had two similar players in the squad in Suso and Borini and spent the money on a player who really would have improved the team.
      ORCHARD RED
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 8,526 posts | 1457 
      • 6 Times!
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #31: Oct 22, 2013 09:55:50 pm
      I don't buy that mate. He's on the transfer committee and has a say in what players eventually end up coming here.

      Within a certain budget!
      I wouldn't write either player off, but if BR was given more money to spend they might not be here at all.
      Roddenberry
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 16,568 posts | 1876 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #32: Oct 23, 2013 12:12:31 am
      Don't care about the next big thing, just the right player(s) coming in.  And while you're at it, lets F**k that marquee crap off as well.
      5timesacharm
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,507 posts | 948 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #33: Oct 23, 2013 01:26:27 am
      Haven't we done enough shopping on the cheap? We're in a very different market to the one that existed with those players you linked. A top player was still in single figures. The very best in the world in the low double figures. Now the best in the world (or at least the most expensive) are in tripple figures. If we're to push on we need to spend big in at least one window, bring in top class players, players above our current station, players capable of playing in the Champion's League and to do that, FSG are going to need to loosen the purse strings a bit.
      stuey
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 36,042 posts | 3967 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #34: Oct 23, 2013 10:02:27 am
      Must admit I think this could be the way for us to go. Arsenal and Spurs were bold in the way they moved for young British players like Bale, Walcott and Chamberlain. Also given that we seem to struggling to compete with our rivals now in terms of having the funds and be able to offer guaranteed Champions League football spending over the odds in order to steal a march on our rivals in terms of buying undoubted talent that has yet to peak makes some sense.


      Take young Will Hughes for example, if we're really serious about this kid then get the deal done this January, let him stay at Derby for the rest of the season and bring him in during the summer. I suspect that a host of other clubs will be in for him in the summer so if the club believe he will be a player then do it now.


      When I heard Wisdom had just gone on loan to Derby I did actually wonder if that might open some doors for a potential bid?

      There was paper talk of that being the case, there is interest in the lad elsewhere in the Prem. and the hope is loaning Wisdom out will curry some favour.
      reddebs
      • "LFC Hipster"
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 17,980 posts | 2264 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #35: Oct 23, 2013 10:11:25 am
      I'd hate us to bring Suso back early from his loan, he's getting exactly what he needed and that's playing regularly in a league that allows him to play his natural game.  The only down side is the team isn't winning but as we all know winning isn't the focus for the young lads.

      He's doing really well by all accounts, scored 1 with 4 assists, playing on the right but with the freedom to drift in and use his left foot.

      I'm sure we'll get to see him play a lot more next season but keeping him here this season to only feature with the reserves would have been a complete waste of a years development, for him and for us.

      I still believe we have a few "next big things" already at the Club, they just need the opportunities to prove it.
      reddebs
      • "LFC Hipster"
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 17,980 posts | 2264 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #36: Oct 23, 2013 10:19:42 am
      Problem is there is no clear route into the first team, you've got to kick the door down to get there, particularly without the Europa League opportunities. I was gutted we didn't qualify for this very reason because last year it was a decent competition for blooding players like Suso, Robinson, Sterling etc

      With the under 21s league up and running it does mean that you can be more patient with these kids, keep them for longer and get them out on loan once they hit 18 so perhaps that is the way forward. Certainly with someone like Tom Ince we might have been able to keep him but with a view to him going on a long term loan.

      We have far too many players over 18 who are congesting up the u21s and stunting the progression of those who may make it.  Nearly 50 players to cover the 1st team and reserves, yet some of those playing in the reserves are still eligible for the u18's and even u16's.

      We need a massive clearout at the Academy, whether that's finding loans for the older lads or just releasing them to make way for the more talented it has to be done.  I'm sure it's something they're working on and I expect we'll see a totally different setup at the Academy after next summer.
      FATKOPITE10
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 14,517 posts | 3460 
      • Liverpool fc give me tourettes
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #37: Oct 23, 2013 10:20:02 am
      Sergi Samper of Barcelona, not the quickest as a defensive midfielder but excellent on the ball and it's really hard to understamnd why he doesn't play more for Barcelona B- supposedly been watched by Spurs-what a shock !, another Lucas, this time Lucas Anderson of Ajax who can play out wide or behind the striker
      chats
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 31,497 posts | 2868 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #38: Oct 23, 2013 10:58:26 am
      Don't know too many young, upcoming players from abroad to be honest but I'd certainly have a look at Will Hughes and Luke Shaw. Latter will be very expensive though.

      And like mentioned above, I'd like Suso to get a proper chance next season.
      s@int
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 14,987 posts | 2282 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #39: Oct 23, 2013 11:17:00 am
      We need a massive clearout at the Academy, whether that's finding loans for the older lads or just releasing them to make way for the more talented it has to be done.  I'm sure it's something they're working on and I expect we'll see a totally different setup at the Academy after next summer.

      I think we have to be harder with our decisions on young players. If they don't look like they will make it or aren't developing as well as expected we need to move them on. I read a while ago that when Heighway was in charge he often kept players on that he knew had little or no chance of "making it" but who's personal circumstance were "unfortunate".  Sympathy and compassion sadly have no place in the modern game.   
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #40: Oct 23, 2013 11:25:08 am
      You should mate, they're all live on lfctv which is on freeview if in the uk.  Get them on record and spend some time watching the Reds of the future  ;)

      I just had to check we have freeview  :laugh:
      My lad does all that setting up stuff, so I have no idea about.
      I really should take more notice ;) but I have very little interest in techy stuff  :laugh:

      Which freeview channel?
      I'll make sure and sit down to watch a few, either "live" as LFCTV show them, or recorded.
      Thanks again for the info.
      racerx34
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 33,665 posts | 3899 
      • THE SALT IN THE SOUP
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #41: Oct 23, 2013 11:28:21 am
      I just had to check we have freeview  :laugh:
      My lad does all that setting up stuff, so I have no idea about.
      I really should take more notice ;) but I have very little interest in techy stuff  :laugh:

      Which freeview channel?
      I'll make sure and sit down to watch a few, either "live" as LFCTV show them, or recorded.
      Thanks again for the info.

      429 LFCtv shows nearly all the matches.
      That's 429 on Sky, but it's a free channel.
      I tend to record them when I know I'll miss them.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #42: Oct 23, 2013 11:33:16 am
      I think we have to be harder with our decisions on young players. If they don't look like they will make it or aren't developing as well as expected we need to move them on. I read a while ago that when Heighway was in charge he often kept players on that he knew had little or no chance of "making it" but who's personal circumstance were "unfortunate".  Sympathy and compassion sadly have no place in the modern game.

      I agree, but I'm not sure where the line is drawn, especially when I think of players who were released by big clubs only to go on and become excellent players.
      Is holding on to them for a year or two extra really so much of a gamble?
      At the same time, the reserve leagues in england don't seem to be up the same standard as (for instance) Spain, but I don't think the FA will ever do anything to change that in case it encroaches on the big moneyspinner that is the premier league.

      Maybe with players who are deemed borderline (might make it, might not) through either slower physical development or who haven't quite progressed as planned, we should be looking at a lot more loan deals.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #43: Oct 23, 2013 11:35:12 am
      429 LFCtv shows nearly all the matches.
      That's 429 on Sky, but it's a free channel.
      I tend to record them when I know I'll miss them.

      I haven't got sky is the problem.
      Can't stand that w**ker murdoch.

      I know it's cutting off my nose to spite my face in a way, but F**k it I might just have to bite the bullet if it's the only way to watch youth and ressies.
      racerx34
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 33,665 posts | 3899 
      • THE SALT IN THE SOUP
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #44: Oct 23, 2013 11:42:00 am
      I haven't got sky is the problem.
      Can't stand that w**ker murdoch.

      I know it's cutting off my nose to spite my face in a way, but F**k it I might just have to bite the bullet if it's the only way to watch youth and ressies.

      You could always join the clubs website and watch the matches on there.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #45: Oct 23, 2013 11:45:48 am
      You could always join the clubs website and watch the matches on there.

       :laugh:
      I always forget about the club site, as I rarely visit it.

      Good idea mate, far better for me to do that.
      racerx34
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 33,665 posts | 3899 
      • THE SALT IN THE SOUP
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #46: Oct 23, 2013 11:45:54 am
      reddebs
      • "LFC Hipster"
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 17,980 posts | 2264 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #47: Oct 23, 2013 12:06:04 pm
      :laugh:
      I always forget about the club site, as I rarely visit it.

      Good idea mate, far better for me to do that.

      You get to watch all the 1st team matches live on there too mate so if you've not got sky it's well worth the membership.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #48: Oct 23, 2013 12:11:35 pm
      You get to watch all the 1st team matches live on there too mate so if you've not got sky it's well worth the membership.

      I've already signed up for the yearly membership.
      Now all I have to do is remember to watch the games  :laugh:

      I'll be staying away from their forums though.
      That's what put me off before, reading some of the crap spouted on there.

      Anyway, thanks again guys, it never crossed my mind before you mentioned it.
      Paul_LFC
      • Forum John Toshack
      • ***

      • 256 posts | 10 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #49: Oct 23, 2013 12:26:07 pm
      I think this was the problem with Rodgers for the window just gone. "Buying the next big thing" is not what we need right now, we need to buy the "current" big thing. Yes I understand it's harder as it would cost more but I don't believe in the "lack of Champions League" excuse (whack an extra £20,000 in the pay package and the c**t will come). IMO Rodgers fu**ed this window up by signing two players in Alberto and Ilori and not playing them. Don't get me wrong, it's important to sign young players and have an idea for the future but how can you have a future if your present squad is sh*t? At least if you want to sign players for the future, play the fuckers and see if they are worthy enough of being labelled as the next big thing. I just think we need to establish what we need NOW, which is a couple of big time players. I have no doubt we'd finish in the top places had we had signed either Mkhitaryan, Willian, Diego Costa or even Eriksen. They all look or seem like the current big things in our price range that can make a huge difference to our fortunes. Rather than on 3 players (Alberto, Aspas, Ilori) who don't get enough game time because they lack experience or quality. This isn't a dig at our signings btw as it's still early days, but the manager needs to get some top players in to improve our present, whilst building our future.
      reddebs
      • "LFC Hipster"
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 17,980 posts | 2264 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #50: Oct 23, 2013 12:38:12 pm
      I've already signed up for the yearly membership.
      Now all I have to do is remember to watch the games  :laugh:

      I'll be staying away from their forums though.
      That's what put me off before, reading some of the crap spouted on there.

      Anyway, thanks again guys, it never crossed my mind before you mentioned it.

      Pleasure mate.  If you're not sure when the matches are for the reserves and u18s they're listed on the site.  Go to match, then fixture/results, then scroll down and click on whichever team you looking for.  The banners are just below the montage of club badges

      Alternatively just check on here, there's usually a reminder from one of us that there's a game on  ;)
      crouchinho
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 42,508 posts | 2620 
      • TU TA LOUCO? FILHO DA PUTA!
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #51: Oct 23, 2013 12:39:18 pm
      That young right back for Brazil's u17s WC team. Auro i think his name is. He looks superb.
      s@int
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 14,987 posts | 2282 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #52: Oct 23, 2013 12:56:31 pm
      That young right back for Brazil's u17s WC team. Auro i think his name is. He looks superb.

      No young Italian midfielders mate ? .... I know you are very clued up on the Italian league.
      Scottbot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,627 posts | 2161 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #53: Oct 23, 2013 01:03:00 pm
      I think we have to be harder with our decisions on young players. If they don't look like they will make it or aren't developing as well as expected we need to move them on. I read a while ago that when Heighway was in charge he often kept players on that he knew had little or no chance of "making it" but who's personal circumstance were "unfortunate".  Sympathy and compassion sadly have no place in the modern game.   


      It doesn't work quite like that mate, when a player is signed as a scholar at age 15-16 it is for a two year period and the club generally have to honour that agreement (barring exceptional circumstances) even if they realise that the player is not going to make it. We work (our College football academy) very closely with Saints and that is how they do things and it is pretty much standardised across the whole of the EPL and within the Football League. Most players are on a two year eduicational program so the commitment is there from both a football and an educational development perspective.
      s@int
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 14,987 posts | 2282 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #54: Oct 23, 2013 01:23:01 pm
      It doesn't work quite like that mate, when a player is signed as a scholar at age 15-16 it is for a two year period and the club generally have to honour that agreement (barring exceptional circumstances) even if they realise that the player is not going to make it. We work (our College football academy) very closely with Saints and that is how they do things and it is pretty much standardised across the whole of the EPL and within the Football League. Most players are on a two year eduicational program so the commitment is there from both a football and an educational development perspective.

      Fair enough mate, maybe we should be both more careful who we pass on to the reserves and which players we give contracts to then? I thought this was an interesting article... especially the part about the reserves and the knock on effect of having such a small first team squad.

      Liverpool FC – Are We Really ‘Full’ Of Talent?

      Liverpool’s Academy has quite rightly developed a world class reputation since the reforms of Rafael Benitez and Frank McParland were incorporated, becoming the home of some of the best young players in English and European football but has the Reds dedication to excellence jeopardised the progress of those who aren’t involved with the first team?.

      Liverpool U21s are one of the strongest youth sides in English football. They won the opening group phase by eleven points, conceded the fewest goals – twelve –  and were the second highest goal-scorers, hitting the back of the net thirty-one times. Throughout this period they also enjoyed a fourteen game unbeaten run including eleven victories.

      On the face of it then, the clubs premier youth team is in good shape and thriving but last Monday’s single goal defeat away to Tottenham Hotspur – the second string’s first defeat in any competition this season – exposed something slightly concerning… a desperate lack of squad depth at U21 level.

      Let me start by stating that I acknowledge the squad size of the youth team is hardly the supporters’ primary concern when the first team is equally bereft of numbers and talent. However, in my opinion the two issues are closely linked and this is something I discuss later in the article.

      Over the last three seasons, Liverpool made thirty-eight signings under the age of eighteen. In 2009/10 they brought in Raheem Sterling from Queens Park Rangers, Suso from Cadiz and Michael Ngoo from Southend United. The following season Jonjo Shelvey and Danny Wilson were signed for combined fees of £6.7m. With Damien Comolli in charge of transfers for the 2011/12 season, Liverpool captured some of the British Isles most talented young players including Seyi Ojo, Jordon Ibe and Ryan McLaughlin.

      This trend of signings, along with several major coaching changes, has seen the Kirkby Academy go from introverted and inefficient to highly respected around the world as a centre of footballing excellence, home to some of the most promising young footballers in the game.

      In a pre-season interview the Head of Recruitment, Ian Barrigan, described that the recruitment system worked as a pyramid up until U16s level. At sixteen two top British talents would be added and then at eighteen two top world talents would join with subsequent signings made to fill any holes or weaknesses in the squad. The theory is that this would allow local talent to room and time to develop whilst also ensuring a certain quality is achieved through the signings. It’s a system that was developed and perfected in La Mesia, brought to the club by Borrell and Segura.

      The 2012/13 season however, with Pep Segura leaving the club, has seen the Reds distance themselves from this policy having made only one signing for the youth teams, that of Samed Yesil, who was arguably brought in with the idea of fast tracking to first team action anyway and probably would have been more involved were it not for injury.

      Has the move away from the policy actually damaged the strength of the academy squads? After all there have been thirty-eight signings in the last three seasons, how many do we need to make? Well seventeen of those thirty-eight signings are still under the age of eighteen, for example Jerome Sinclair has barely turned sixteen, and could not be relied upon for consistent U21 action. Furthermore eight of the players signed in the last three years have now left the club and three players have been called up for first team action on a permanent basis (Suso, Sterling and Wisdom). Therefore just ten of those signings are in reality available for selection, with three of those being goalkeepers.


      What is Liverpool’s actual squad strength?

      (All of these figures are based on the matches played in Under-21s Premier League Group Stage 1)

      In the twelve matches of Group C, Liverpool used 28 players. Four goalkeepers, nine defenders, ten midfielders and five strikers. This was the fewest used by any of the twenty-two teams who averaged a squad size of 36.3 players. If you remove from the equation the players who have now left Liverpool or were simply first team players gaining fitness then the squad size falls to just 20. On top of that if long term injuries such as Samed Yesil and ‘one-off’ U18 call ups are removed then it’s only 16 with four of those being goalkeepers.

      That means Liverpool have a selectable, outfield squad of 12 with the league’s average number of outfield players being 31.8, albeit that number can be reduced to around 23 when the same parameters are applied.

      What affect does this have on player development?

      The knock on effect of having a small squad is significant and not simply about struggling to fill the team sheet on a Sunday afternoon.

      Firstly, Liverpool’s U21s are immensely talented – as shown by such a prolific run in the league – but U21 football can only develop players to a certain extent and several members of the squad exceeded the level some time ago. Most notably the players who border the first team such as Jack Robinson, Jon Flanagan and Suso; these players have been on the fringes of Rodgers squad this season and have clearly outgrown the U21s league.

      Rodgers is famously quoted as telling Flanagan he was “not Cafu” but at times this season the young Scouser has been able to pass off a decent enough impression because of the relative lack of strength in the league and it’s the same story for Robinson and Suso who simply find the standard to be too easy now. Even beyond them the likes of Conor Coady, Krisztian Adorjan and Stephen Sama are crying out for some first team experience which a loan spell would be perfect for as they are unlikely to break into the first team at this time.

      There is, to be fair, a lot to be said for our methods of coaching. As shown by the development of Andre Wisdom and Raheem Sterling, there are paths to the first team that do not require loan spells outside of the club and the expectation is that Jordon Ibe and Ryan McLaughlin will soon be breaking down the first team door and proving the point once again. These players learned enough from the U21 football and our coaches to be able to deal with the demands of Premier League football (or at least potentially could) however, the concern is not for these players.

      The early developers are being well looked after, possibly even over-relied on, which is discussed later, due to the famous ‘fast-track’ system but those players who develop slightly later, in positions requiring more tactical awareness and nous than the average seventeen year old is blessed with appear to be overlooked and forgotten.

      Here lies the first, and major, problem of Liverpool’s small squad size. It simply isn’t feasible for certain players to leave on loan because we couldn’t afford to lose that player. Conor Coady, for example, if he was to arrange a loan spell away from the club the knock on effect would be that Jordan Lussey would progress to the U21 team – no issue there, Lussey is a talented midfielder and nearly at the right age anyway – but in turn Lussey would need replacing at U18 level so most likely fifteen year old Jordan Rossiter would be the boy called upon to play three years above his age group.

      While Rossiter’s cameos at U18 level have been encouraging it is too much to expect him to play so far ahead of his age level week in week out and continue to develop in such a consistent manner. Different players develop at different rates and simply throwing young players into the higher age category doesn’t mean they are being properly graduated and it may not be beneficial for them given the increased exposure on LFCtv and therefore fan pressure or simply the confidence knock they may receive if someone three years older than themselves physically and mentally bullies them.

      So loan spells are difficult to come by at Liverpool at the moment; only Michael Ngoo, Dani Pacheco, Danny Wilson and Jamie Stephens have managed to secure long term moves to other clubs and it appears to be working well for at least two of the lads – Ngoo and Wilson earning rave reviews at Hearts. It would be nice to offer such opportunities to the likes of Coady and Adorjan but it now seems unlikely either will get that chance this season. Both turn 21 next year and the club will have to either register them as first team players or sell them for the 2014/15 season – if they haven’t had any first team action by then they will certainly not be at a level required to take up one of the 25 man slots.

      A lot of people may well read this and think “they aren’t good enough anyway”. This may be true they both certainly have their limitations but equally the huge improvement in form of Coady following his permanent move to Melwood earlier this season is an encouraging sign that he has room to grow where he had previously looked stale and incapable of further progress. Some players just need that experience of first team football to allow them to push on another 15-20%.

      Some will have successful loan periods and return a better player, like Martin Kelly, others will have unsuccessful ones and never get to the level required like Nathan Eccleston or David Amoo but if we as club are unable to offer such opportunities then we will be writing off anyone who isn’t a superstar by the age of 18 and that is a worrying situation in my opinion.

      What can be done about it?

      Contrary to what you probably believe I’m about to say, I am not going to start demanding the club sign seven or eight eighteen year olds at a substantial transfer fee to the detriment of the first team. Quite the contrary, I believe it is the first team squad which is ultimately hurting the U21s.

      At the age of eighteen years, two months and eight days Raheem Sterling has made thirty-eight appearances for club and country this season and it’s not even March. At the same age, Lionel Messi made eight appearances for Barcelona. Andre Wisdom has played twenty-four times, Lilian Thuram at the same age played just once. Suso so far has made twenty-six appearances; at his age, David Silva hadn’t even made his debut.

      The above comparisons, which are in no way meant to compare the ability of the players, are to make two points. Firstly, that Liverpool are clearly over-reliant on young players. There is no way a player only just turned eighteen should be making thirty-eight appearances in a season, never mind in little over half a season. Secondly, just because you don’t make regular appearances when you’re still in nappies it does not mean you aren’t going to go on and develop into a world class footballer.


      If Liverpool’s first team had some depth then we would have been able to use the likes of Sterling, Wisdom and Suso – but used them sparingly – we could give ourselves tantalising looks at the future without becoming overly reliant and in the meantime they could have still turned out for the U21 sides, bringing back with them a little more experience everytime and squad depth to allow those who couldn’t get action quite yet to leave and find football elsewhere on loan. Sure, we’d still have needed one or two more players at U21 level to cover for positions such as centre back where the club are desperately short but mainly the signings to help solve the problem of the U21s needs to happen at first team level.

      If Maxi Rodriguez had stayed, for example, we would have been able to rest Sterling more often which in turn might have allowed Adorjan to find a loan club this season which would surely have been more beneficial to him. Sterling would still have got first team game time but dropping in and out would reduce the substantial pressure on his young shoulders.

      In previous years the club has found itself top-heavy, we had drifters such as Milan Jovanovic and Philipp Degen taking up squad positions that were utterly unnecessary and acted as a brick wall to the youngsters in the Academy.

      We now find ourselves in the exact opposite position, we are too thinly spread at first team level and the affect has been to form another, more curious, barrier and that is the one where players are forced to stay with the first team when occasionally playing for the second string may be better for them and where second string players are forced to stay with them in order to help fill a team sheet when going out on loan would probably help them.

      It’s a work in progress, Liverpool have got the transition wrong, but it was always likely to go too far the other way at some point. What is important is that the people who are paid to see these problems can fix them.

      We need to return to the policy of buying in the best British youngsters and simultaneously we need to make sure the first team has enough players to function on its own. Breaking in young footballers is a lengthy process that requires timing and patience – relying on them from a young age just hurts everybody.

      http://www.thisisanfield.com/2013/02/liverpool-fc-are-we-really-full-of-talent/

      « Last Edit: Oct 23, 2013 01:29:27 pm by s@int »
      KopiteLuke
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 21,056 posts | 3784 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #55: Oct 23, 2013 02:30:58 pm
      What an outstanding article, well thought out and written that man.
      Scottbot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,627 posts | 2161 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #56: Oct 23, 2013 03:50:14 pm
      It's a good articel although it's obviously an older one.
       
      Interesting to see that one of his hypotheticals has actually take place (see below) and is actually workign out quite well.
      Here lies the first, and major, problem of Liverpool’s small squad size. It simply isn’t feasible for certain players to leave on loan because we couldn’t afford to lose that player. Conor Coady, for example, if he was to arrange a loan spell away from the club the knock on effect would be that Jordan Lussey would progress to the U21 team – no issue there, Lussey is a talented midfielder and nearly at the right age anyway – but in turn Lussey would need replacing at U18 level so most likely fifteen year old Jordan Rossiter would be the boy called upon to play three years above his age group.

      While Rossiter’s cameos at U18 level have been encouraging it is too much to expect him to play so far ahead of his age level week in week out and continue to develop in such a consistent manner. Different players develop at different rates and simply throwing young players into the higher age category doesn’t mean they are being properly graduated and it may not be beneficial for them given the increased exposure on LFCtv and therefore fan pressure or simply the confidence knock they may receive if someone three years older than themselves physically and mentally bullies them.
      crouchinho
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 42,508 posts | 2620 
      • TU TA LOUCO? FILHO DA PUTA!
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #57: Oct 23, 2013 04:40:08 pm
      No young Italian midfielders mate ? .... I know you are very clued up on the Italian league.

      Most of them are either snapped up or still pretty raw/not yet ready to move up IMO. Admittedly haven't watched as much as i'd have liked of the Serie A this season, though.
      bigmick
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,078 posts | 2767 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #58: Oct 23, 2013 07:02:12 pm
      Jack Rodwell will make a player too. If he continues to be overlooked at Man City, he could be the much talked about holding midfielder we need.
      fields of anny rd
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 17,663 posts | 1961 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #59: Oct 23, 2013 07:10:39 pm
      Jack Rodwell will make a player too. If he continues to be overlooked at Man City, he could be the much talked about holding midfielder we need.

      He's bang average and injured. Always F***ing injured.
      Red5man
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,616 posts | 76 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #60: Oct 23, 2013 07:12:02 pm
      Jack Rodwell will make a player too. If he continues to be overlooked at Man City, he could be the much talked about holding midfielder we need.

      If this is the type of player you see fit to replace Lucas. I'm a bit baffled if I'm being honest lad
      bigmick
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,078 posts | 2767 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #61: Oct 23, 2013 08:09:02 pm
      If this is the type of player you see fit to replace Lucas. I'm a bit baffled if I'm being honest lad


      Look again at the title of the thread and look again at the fellas first post. This isn't about buying a player who is about to go straight into the team, it's about one for the future at not too prohibitive a price, who could develop into something. I think Rodwell will, you obviously don't agree but that's OK.
      Roddenberry
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 16,568 posts | 1876 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #62: Oct 23, 2013 08:10:14 pm
      he could be the much talked about holding midfielder we need.

      When it's you doing the talking and causing the much, does that still hold true? :)
      Red5man
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,616 posts | 76 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #63: Oct 23, 2013 08:15:56 pm
      When it's you doing the talking and causing the much, does that still hold true? :)

      :D
      bigmick
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,078 posts | 2767 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #64: Oct 23, 2013 08:18:03 pm
      When it's you doing the talking and causing the much, does that still hold true? :)


      Hmmm I think it does yes, but I do take your point. It would hold even more validity were it not the fact that the infectivity of our midfield is being broadly discussed in the media now and across all forums. I'm hardly unique in my thoughts on Lucas, still in the minority definitely but hardly a minority of one.

      I like Rodwell and always have. He's a good athlete, fantastic in the air and (when fit) gets across the ground well. I don't see him as a centre half, but I do think he'll eventually end up being a good holding midfielder. Man City paid 12 mill for him, if he were to get himself fit I think picking him up for around 2/3 of that would be good business. 
      srslfc
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 32,347 posts | 4967 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #65: Oct 23, 2013 09:52:03 pm
      I don't think Rodwell is a bad player Mick but I don't see him becoming anywhere near as good as Lucas as a DM.

      Roddenberry
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 16,568 posts | 1876 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #66: Oct 23, 2013 10:16:17 pm
      I don't think Rodwell is a bad player Mick but I don't see him becoming anywhere near as good as Lucas as a DM.



      Always been more impressed with him further forward than I have sitting back.
      fields of anny rd
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 17,663 posts | 1961 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #67: Oct 23, 2013 10:24:10 pm
      Always been more impressed with him further forward than I have sitting back.

      Personally, I've always thought he's average in every position I've seen him play. With his injury record and lack of football in his vital early years, it is safe to say he's behind a lot of players his age in terms of development.

      Good athlete he may be, but there is very little to choose between him and Henderson, except Hendo stays fit. Both don't really do enough of anything to get excited about.



      srslfc
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 32,347 posts | 4967 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #68: Oct 23, 2013 10:27:58 pm
      Personally, I've always thought he's average in every position I've seen him play. With his injury record and lack of football in his vital early years, it is safe to say he's behind a lot of players his age in terms of development.

      Good athlete he may be, but there is very little to choose between him and Henderson. Both don't really do enough of anything.



      Henderson is a much better player and prospect than Rodwell.

      Always been more impressed with him further forward than I have sitting back.

      I think he is just one of those players that looks alright sometimes, pretty good others, but one who I don't see as the big prosect Mick does, especially in a Lucas type position.
      fields of anny rd
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 17,663 posts | 1961 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #69: Oct 23, 2013 10:32:09 pm
      Fabian Delph could be decent cover for us. Hardly the next big thing like but if we are wanting energy in midfield and a bit of bite he's worth the peanuts it would cost to sign him.

      Again though a bad injury record and has the Lucas like habit (only worse) of being cautioned all the time.


      Ravel Morrison is the next big thing if he gets his head down for West Ham. A lot of Mancs I know rave about him, but he thought he was a gangster and had to leave Manchester in the end.


      He is very talented and will probably end up on the plane to Rio.
      Roddenberry
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 16,568 posts | 1876 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #70: Oct 23, 2013 10:36:54 pm
      Fabian Delph could be decent cover for us. Hardly the next big thing like but if we are wanting energy in midfield and a bit of bite he's worth the peanuts it would cost to sign him.

      Again though a bad injury record and has the Lucas like habit (only worse) of being cautioned all the time.


      Ravel Morrison is the next big thing if he gets his head down for West Ham. A lot of Mancs I know rave about him, but he thought he was a gangster and had to leave Manchester in the end.


      He is very talented and will probably end up on the plane to Rio.

      If we're looking at Villa players, I really like Wiemann.
      fields of anny rd
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 17,663 posts | 1961 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #71: Oct 23, 2013 10:54:56 pm
      If we're looking at Villa players, I really like Wiemann.

      Yeah, he's a tricky customer with a touch of class about him.

      My other tips, Berahino from West Brom  and Tom Carroll from Spuds. Think he will flourish in the same way Aaron Ramsey is now for Arsenal.


      I also read a piece on the Murphy twins from Norwich who are both supposed to be good prospects and my Palace mate swears by a lad called Alassani.


      All English talent  :gt-happyup:
      Scottbot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,627 posts | 2161 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #72: Oct 24, 2013 12:56:22 am
      I still think Hughes looks the pick of the bunch. As for Rodwell, I'm not sure he really fits the profile of this thread but if he can keep himself fit he can certainly be a player. He fits the modern prototype of a big strong DM and he has some nice passing range as well. He's no Yaya Toure but he does have a physical advantage on the lads we have got such as Lucas and Henderson.
      bad boy bubby
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 14,564 posts | 3172 
      • @KaiserQueef
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #73: Oct 25, 2013 06:49:54 pm
      Who's the next big thing that isn't so big he'd cost us £50m?
      If I were buying the next big thing (and going on what we "need"): a left-sided 'attacker'; less than £50m? El Shaarawy.  :gt-happyup:

      Central midfielder? I'll whisper this one quietly but I like the look of, ex-Manc, Paul Pogba.  Oh and I'll throw in Iker Muniain as a wee bonus.
      Red5man
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,616 posts | 76 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #74: Oct 25, 2013 06:53:37 pm
      If I were buying the next big thing (and going on what we "need"): a left-sided 'attacker'; less than £50m? El Shaarawy.  :gt-happyup:

      Central midfielder? I'll whisper this one quietly but I like the look of, ex-Manc, Paul Pogba.  Oh and I'll throw in Iker Muniain as a wee bonus.

      No whisper about Pogba he is already a big thing
      KopiteLuke
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 21,056 posts | 3784 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #75: Oct 25, 2013 06:56:26 pm
      If I were buying the next big thing (and going on what we "need"): a left-sided 'attacker'; less than £50m? El Shaarawy.  :gt-happyup:

      Central midfielder? I'll whisper this one quietly but I like the look of, ex-Manc, Paul Pogba.  Oh and I'll throw in Iker Muniain as a wee bonus.

      Cannot for a moment believe Milan will let El Shaarawy go, would be an amazing signing for us.

      Pogba is a bit of a beast isn't he, 20 years old and going to be a real star and Muniain I've been a fan for a while. Big yes please for any of those, big lack of belief we'll get any :(
      bad boy bubby
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 14,564 posts | 3172 
      • @KaiserQueef
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #76: Oct 25, 2013 06:58:58 pm
      No whisper about Pogba he is already a big thing
      The "whisper" bit was about me 'liking' an ex-Manc - I thought that was clear: obviously not.

      "Already a big thing"... alright but not for us. I thought that's what this thread was about: obviously not. So that's me zero for two... ah well, back to the drawing board.  ;D
      « Last Edit: Oct 25, 2013 07:15:00 pm by bad boy bubby »
      Red5man
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,616 posts | 76 
      Re: Buying the next big thing
      Reply #77: Oct 25, 2013 07:40:30 pm
      The "whisper" bit was about me 'liking' an ex-Manc - I thought that was clear: obviously not.

      "Already a big thing"... alright but not for us. I thought that's what this thread was about: obviously not. So that's me zero for two... ah well, back to the drawing board.  ;D

      :D

      Cheers mate.

      Quick Reply