Brave Players?

Putting it this way turning his back on Ramsey wasn't brave.  But yes it was a mistake not an act of cowardliness.   

Out of our current squad I would put Lucas at the top of the list.Now I know I ramble on a bit of players of yesteryear but the bravest ever has to be Gerry Byrne in the 1965 F.A.Cup Final against Leeds.Gerry is a true description of the meaning of the word brave.

'That is a key quality for me; can you be brave on the pitch, not in terms of 50-50 tackles but having the ball and looking to play in areas others wouldn't?'

I think BR meant creativity and the willingness to risk playing killer balls.
Being brave in a 50-50 tackle, only to end up sitting out for the rest of the season is stupidity

Out of our current squad I would put Lucas at the top of the list.Now I know I ramble on a bit of players of yesteryear but the bravest ever has to be Gerry Byrne in the 1965 F.A.Cup Final against Leeds.Gerry is a true description of the meaning of the word brave.

Didn't he play on with a broken leg Billy?

In a recent interview Brendan said he's looking for "brave players" to come into the team in January and goes on to explain what he means by 'brave'.

'I think my history as a coach shows I like players who are gifted technically and have courage when it comes to being in possession of a football,' he said.

'That is a key quality for me; can you be brave on the pitch, not in terms of 50-50 tackles but having the ball and looking to play in areas others wouldn't?'

Going by that definition of 'brave' 'debs - I'd say that players who fit the description, without dispute, are: Agger, Johnson, Stevie, Suarez and Coutinho. There are others who may, arguably, be added to the list and may be comfortable in their own right but (in my opinion) these five are undeniable.

All comfortable on the ball; all prepared to play in "other areas". Brendan, going by his quote, will be looking to bring in players like these - recent transfer history shows it won't be an easy task tho'.

Going by that definition of 'brave' 'debs - I'd say that players who fit the description, without dispute, are: Agger, Johnson, Stevie, Suarez and Coutinho. There are others who may, arguably, be added to the list and may be comfortable in their own right but (in my opinion) these five are undeniable.

All comfortable on the ball; all prepared to play in "other areas". Brendan, going by his quote, will be looking to bring in players like these - recent transfer history shows it won't be an easy task tho'.

Thanks Bubby at least you read "his definition" of 'brave' before posting.  I agree it won't be easy finding this type of player but at least we can agree he's looking for the right qualities.

Going by that definition of 'brave' 'debs - I'd say that players who fit the description, without dispute, are: Agger, Johnson, Stevie, Suarez and Coutinho. There are others who may, arguably, be added to the list and may be comfortable in their own right but (in my opinion) these five are undeniable.

All comfortable on the ball; all prepared to play in "other areas". Brendan, going by his quote, will be looking to bring in players like these - recent transfer history shows it won't be an easy task tho'.

I'd agree with your five if we're going with that definition - which leads me to ask, how does Lucas make the list (for some). 

I agree it won't be easy finding this type of player but at least we can agree he's looking for the right qualities.

I get what you are saying 'debs [about looking for the right qualities] but maybe we've got it wrong in our assessment of the type of player he's referring to and that leads to further questions.

For example: Is the pursuit of 'brave' players something new? If so why?
Does Brendan believe that Toure, Sakho, Alberto and Aspas, for example, are 'brave'? Or, indeed, did he believe the same of Assaidi, Borini and Allen? If so; will Brendan be on the look out for more of the same? If not; why didn't he sign that [brave] type of player in the Summer?

Whilst it's nice to hear, the reality is; going by our earlier assessment and judgement of players and speaking statistically, those questions, are why I believe it's easier said than done. 

Going by that definition of 'brave' 'debs - I'd say that players who fit the description, without dispute, are: Agger, Johnson, Stevie, Suarez and Coutinho. There are others who may, arguably, be added to the list and may be comfortable in their own right but (in my opinion) these five are undeniable.

All comfortable on the ball; all prepared to play in "other areas". Brendan, going by his quote, will be looking to bring in players like these - recent transfer history shows it won't be an easy task tho'.

I would add Sakho, Enrique and Sturridge as for me it's undeniable that they fit the definition.

I get what you are saying 'debs [about looking for the right qualities] but maybe we've got it wrong in our assessment of the type of player he's referring to and that leads to further questions.

For example: Is the pursuit of 'brave' players something new? If so why?
Does Brendan believe that Toure, Sakho, Alberto and Aspas, for example, are 'brave'? Or, indeed, did he believe the same of Assaidi, Borini and Allen? If so; will Brendan be on the look out for more of the same? If not; why didn't he sign that [brave] type of player in the Summer?

Whilst it's nice to hear, the reality is; going by our earlier assessment and judgement of players and speaking statistically, those questions, are why I believe it's easier said than done. 

See mate I think all those players you mentioned with the exception of Assaidi and possibly Borini do fall into that remit.  They're all comfortable on/with the ball and are technically sound, they may lack that killer ball like Cou or Suarez but they're exceptional talents that don't come around every day.

I'd agree with your five if we're going with that definition - which leads me to ask, how does Lucas make the list (for some). 

I suppose I should explain the reason as to why I'm a little perplexed at Lucas being chosen in some people's list, it's their prerogative but I'd like to explain why he wouldn't make my list. And by Christ I don't want to turn this into a Lucas/midfield thread that isn't the point of my explanation which is to give a genuine reason because I'm genuinely unsure why he has made some lists and it isn't criticism of him either.

Rodgers, when he terms the word "brave" talks about technically gifted players who have courage on the ball. Lucas does have some technical ability, as do most footballers, he also has some courage on the ball, like many footballers do. In comparison to Suarez, Coutinho, Gerrard, Johnson and Agger, he doesn't have as much. These players have it abundance in comparison to Lucas, in a different league so to speak. As we're often reminded Lucas's role in the team is very specific and when questioned whether he should be doing, or could be doing more, it is often nonchalantly dismissed out of hand that 'he's not in the team to do that!'. People who think they can appreciate his work better than the others will use this as a way to deflect any constraints his game/ability has, which is fair enough, he is after all our only proper DM.

With that said, Lucas's game when in possession is like German manufacturing - efficient, he's there to do that specific job of putting fires out around defense, winning the ball back and then laying it off, simply and efficiently, to players who are "brave". His game, nor does his ability allow him to be as "brave" as Suarez, Coutinho, Gerrard, Johnson, or even Agger who is a genuine ball playing center half. His role has been made so specific (by some) that the "brave" we're talking about here excludes his a) ability (in comparison to aforementioned players) and b) his game (which is specific and when in possession efficient/simple & effective are the order of the day). That's no slight on the player, he's there to do a role, but being "brave" in this sense isn't it.

I would add Sakho, Enrique and Sturridge as for me it's undeniable that they fit the definition.

S..hit, can't believe I forgot Sturridge, he would definitely go into that category for me. Not sure about the other two.

I would add Sakho, Enrique and Sturridge as for me it's undeniable that they fit the definition.

See mate I think all those players you mentioned with the exception of Assaidi and possibly Borini do fall into that remit.

That's fair enough FL & 'debs and the reason why I only listed players who I believe are "undeniable". If that is the case, with your additional seven, we can't be that far off having a 'complete' team. Good times. 

he's there to do that specific job of putting fires out around defense, winning the ball back and then to laying it off, simply and efficiently, to players who are "brave".

That's exactly what he's meant to do mate but in this instance the 'brave' is having the ability to recieve/win the ball and give/pass it to a team mate whilst under pressure.  He rarely get's rid for the sake of it, he always looks for the easy outlet ie a team mate with time/space. 

Compare this to players who pass to the player nearest regardless of being surrounded by the opposition, or doesn't carry the ball when they have the time or space to do so.  These players are scared witless of having the ball at their feet and just want to get rid asap.

Hope that helps mate.

That's fair enough FL & 'debs and the reason why I only listed players who I believe are "undeniable". If that is the case, with your additional seven, we can't be that far off having a 'complete' team. Good times. 

That's a reason for starting the topic mate, I was surprised at how many 'brave' players we already had and where the glaring 'holes' are within the squad 

That's exactly what he's meant to do mate but in this instance the 'brave' is having the ability to recieve/win the ball and give/pass it to a team mate whilst under pressure.  He rarely get's rid for the sake of it, he always looks for the easy outlet ie a team mate with time/space. 

Compare this to players who pass to the player nearest regardless of being surrounded by the opposition, or doesn't carry the ball when they have the time or space to do so.  These players are scared witless of having the ball at their feet and just want to get rid asap.

Hope that helps mate.

Good point.

Although it does sound to me you are describing a player who is comfortable in possession.

Didn't he play on with a broken leg Billy?

I am not sure if you are taking the piss out of me stuey but to put the record straight Gerry Byrne played the whole match (Bar the first couple of minutes) with a broken collarbone.Sad to say some of the so called stars today would come off if they suffered a broken fingernail.

Sad to say some of the so called stars today would come off if they suffered a broken fingernail.

Funny because it's true unfortunately.

Talking of players who were "brave" in possesion, I was really disappointed when Sahin went. There was something incredibly elegant about his passing. Especially the way he'd get the trajectory of a pass, just dropping down perfectly for the forward player.

Obviously Rodgers had his views on how many players he could have for different positions. But, Sahin looked a really classy performer..

I wonder if he would go for a destroyer who is also a playmaker. That sort of player would most likely be very expensive - maybe 30m or so (or have to be very "up and coming"). A pure ballwinner eg a Mascherano of highish level could be picked up for 20m avg I reckon.

I also wonder if he is on the look out for a top winger or a Diego Costa type strike. Its unlikely we're gonna see a mega splurge and lots of signings in January. I'd personally prefer fewer player, but of top, top quality.

You also have to wonder whether the "brave" comment is a reference to the safety first approach of Lucas. And also the slightly "un-overconfident" Henderson.

These 2 look a lot like "able lieutenants" rather than lynchpins. Much like Wark, Lee and Whelan after Souness went. Able lieutenant isn't meant as condemnation. More than these players flourished when led by someone like Souness. But none of them ever looked to emulate the type of lynchpin qualities Souness had.

I am not sure if you are taking the piss out of me stuey but to put the record straight Gerry Byrne played the whole match (Bar the first couple of minutes) with a broken collarbone.Sad to say some of the so called stars today would come off if
they suffered a broken fingernail.

That was it Billy, having had a broken collarbone meself and me arm in a sling for3 weeks, its unimaginable that anyone could play anything but draughts for over an hour with that injury.
A broken leg would sting a bit as well.

That was it Billy, having had a broken collarbone meself and me arm in a sling for3 weeks, its unimaginable that anyone could play anything but draughts for over an hour with that injury.
A broken leg would sting a bit as well.

Cheers stuey,with the extra time Gerry Byrne played close to 2 hours with that injury.And he still had the strength to walk around Anfield with Gordon Milne and the F.A.Cup prior to the Inter Milan match on the following Wednesday.Never have I witnessed so much atmosphere as at Anfield that night.

Cheers stuey,with the extra time Gerry Byrne played close to 2 hours with that injury.And he still had the strength to walk around Anfield with Gordon Milne and the F.A.Cup prior to the Inter Milan match on the following Wednesday.Never have I witnessed so much atmosphere as at Anfield that night.

Billy, I know I'm spinning off topic a little. But how would you rate that era's team vs the top in Europe.
I understood we had great players, but that Shanks was a bit too cavalier in those days for European football. I mean, do you think we could have become really, really successful in Europe then?