Your Liverpool/Everton Combined XI

I just stumbled upon this thread on the Bluenose forum: http://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/62096-Which-Liverpool-players-if-any-would-make-your-Everton-first-11

And they call us deluded

Anyway, what would your Merseyside FC team look like? Here's mine (impartial version!):

Mignolet v Howard - Mignolet every day of the week for me. He's had a very good start to life here, carrying on from where he left off with Sunderland. Howard used to be decent, but he's been sh*te when I've watched him lately (Villa away his only good performance this season my mate tells me).
Johnson v Coleman - this is actually quite a tricky one. I really like Glen; when he's bad he's pretty bad but for the last 18 months he has been tops. Class player. Coleman is a talent though, bargain for the Bluenoses, think they got him for a few grand from Ireland. He's good going forward and solid defensively (can get done by movement I've gathered though). If it was a 'for the future' question, I'd take Coleman, but for now I'd stick with Glen.
Toure/Skrtel v Jagielka - it's between these three for the right centre-back spot. Jagielka is a good defender when his team are up against it, but gets exposed constantly when his side attack and leave the defence open a la England the other night. Good as Skrtel has been this season, I think Kolo still offers a bit more as an allround solid defensive game.
Agger/Sakho v Distin - Distin was excellent for the Toffees last season but he's a notch below our two left siders. With Kolo providing plenty of physical prowess I'd opt for Agger's ball-playing ability. Sakho obviously has this role sewn up for the future, however.
Enrique v Baines - the first defensive no-brainer - Baines takes this. Offers a lot more going forward, a great set-piece weapon and has improved defensively over the last couple of years. Wish we didn't release him at 15!
Lucas v Barry - these two both play the holding role well, sniffing out danger in those areas of the pitch. Due to injuries in Lucas' case and age in Barry's, neither are particularly mobile nowadays. It's pretty tough. Think this is a genuine draw, so I'd keep Lucas because, well, he's ours
Gerrard v McCarthy - now I do like McCarthy, have done for a while, was slightly gutted to see him join these. He's got great energy and is getting better every week. BUT, in a contest against Steven Gerrard, he comes a distant second. Stevie may not provide the thrust he once did, or the enthusiasm present in McCarthy's arsenal, but he is a better passer, better crosser, better shooter and a set-piece threat even now.
Henderson/Moses v Mirallas - Moses still hasn't been given a real chance on the wing for us where he does his best work so it's hard to judge him. Hendo did well on the right against a lacklustre Fulham, kind of played the Dirk Kuyt role. But I'm a big believer in wingers being exciting players who take opponents on, and Mirallas' dribbling ability is pretty impressive. Wouldn't mind him in red!
Suarez v Barkley - as much as I like Barkley, and as good as he will be, Suarez is a clear winner right now.
Coutinho v Pienaar - Pienaar used to be really underrated in my opinion, linked up with great with Baines, but since he left for Spurs and went back to Everton he's definitely lost a bit of his mojo. Coutinho is class, and wins this fairly comfortably.
Sturridge v Lukaku - how tough is this? The battle of the Chelsea rejects do you go for the silky, skilful and clinical Sturridge or the powerful, beastly and clinical Lukaku? Personally I think Sturridge is a more rounded player right now; Lukaku still quite raw in some aspects of his game such as first touch. Both will be top 20 strikers in the world soon enough, but I'd take our man at this moment for sure.

So we win that 9-2, with a couple of tough ones that could have gone either way. Team would line up something like this:

Code: [Select]

       Mignolet
Johnson  Toure  Agger    Baines
            Lucas  Gerrard
Mirallas                    Coutinho
           Suarez  Sturridge
Bench: Howard, Sakho, Coleman, Barry/McCarthy/Henderson, Barkley, Moses/Henderson, Lukaku.

Think a squad like that would be up in or around the top 2/3. Left back is a weakness of ours and we could do with a quality winger like Mirallas.

Over to you...

Mirallas is decent but not consistent enough yet.

Toss up between Kolo and Sakho, I rate them both highly.

Can't be arsed with the subs but I'd take Barkley.


                Mignolet
             
             Toure  Agger   
Johnson                       Baines
                 Lucas 

          Gerrard Coutinho

     Suarez              Sturridge
                Lukaku

You're quite deluded.  If you're going to pick certain players just "because they are ours" then what is the point at having an objective look at the combined XI?  Sturridge has been a cracking player for us and he hopefully will get even better, but I don't think any manager in the world, when offered either Sturridge or Lukaku, would pick Sturridge. 

And what on earth are you doing creating a choice between Barkley and Suarez?  Suarez is a striker FFS.  Barkley is already about ten times the player Henderson is, so it would be Barkley over Henderson.  Mirallas over Moses.  Coutinho clearly over Pienaar.

If it were a 4-4-3 it would look something like this:

Mignolet
Johson Skrtel Agger Baines
Barry Gerrard Barkley
Suarez Lukaku Coutinho

You're quite deluded.  If you're going to pick certain players just "because they are ours" then what is the point at having an objective look at the combined XI?  Sturridge has been a cracking player for us and he hopefully will get even better, but I don't think any manager in the world, when offered either Sturridge or Lukaku, would pick Sturridge. 

Mignolet
Johson Skrtel Agger Baines
Barry Gerrard Barkley
Suarez Lukaku Coutinho

I think the choice between Sturridge and Lukaku would be a lot more difficult than you suggest.

Although you are a bit mental, so maybe there's no point.

I think the choice between Sturridge and Lukaku would be a lot more difficult than you suggest.

We should have a poll. 

If Chelsea tomorow offered us a straight swap with Sturridge for Lukaku, would you keep Sturridge or take Lukaku?

We should have a poll. 

If Chelsea tomorow offered us a straight swap with Sturridge for Lukaku, would you keep Sturridge or take Lukaku?

How many "managers in the world" are lilely to respond to this poll?

I'll give you a clue: none.

Which largely renders the results of any such poll utterly F***ing pointless.

We'll have Baines they can have Sissoko

Job Done..

How many "managers in the world" are lilely to respond to this poll?  I'll give you a clue: none.

erm.  The question is to Liverpool supporters on the forum, that is the point of this forum, you know, to discuss things we have absolutely no control of, because we enjoy doing so.  The point of this thread in particular was to compare the best Everton players versus our players.  If you find it a futile conversation then you don't have to participate.  Take it easy mate, look on the bright side of life.   

We'll have Baines they can have Cissoko

Job Done..

 

I'd take that, reluctantly.

"Aly mate, it's not you, it's me..."

Where are FSG going to find the money for Sissokho? 

Mirallas,  Baines,  Lukaku in.
Aspas,  Cissokho,  Sterling out.

Done.

I think the choice between Sturridge and Lukaku would be a lot more difficult than you suggest.

Although you are a bit mental, so maybe there's no point.

Hahaha
Your observation about Sturridge and Lukaku is entirely correct as is the statement regarding the poster's credibility.

erm.  The question is to Liverpool supporters on the forum, that is the point of this forum, you know, to discuss things we have absolutely no control of, because we enjoy doing so.  The point of this thread in particular was to compare the best Everton players versus our players.  If you find it a futile conversation then you don't have to participate.  Take it easy mate, look on the bright side of life.   

You were the one who mooted that "no manager in the world" would choose Sturridge over Lukaku, and then when queried about it, suggested a poll on this website would add credence to your hypothesis.

I simply - and correctly - pointed out that this would offer no correlative information, and was therefore useless.

I hope this helps.

PS any such poll on this website would in fact, do the opposite, because Sturridge would come out on top, populated as it is, with mostly Liverpool fans who like Sturridge a lot.

any such poll on this website would in fact, do the opposite, because Sturridge would come out on top, populated as it is, with mostly Liverpool fans who like Sturridge a lot.

Well, see, this is part of the problem running through the supporters group in the last few years, they care more about "liking" players than about winning.  If you look at it objectively, Sturridge is a cracking player, but Lukaku is world class.  If Suarez and Sturridge is one of the best duos in England, Suarez and Lukaku would be one of the best in Europe.  Hands down. 

But, you "like" Sturridge more, and couldn't give two shits about the CLUB succeeding, so, yea....

In any event, it's by no means suggesting Sturridge isn't a top player, I'd take him above almost every other striker in the league except maybe van Persie, Dzeko, Aguero etc.  But Lukaku has the ability to be one of the top players in the WORLD.  He really is that good.   And in the end I "like" our club more than I "like" any one player.

You apparently support Sturridge Football Club.  That's fine, there is another group, Lucas Football Club, there's also Borini Football Club, there was a Carroll Football Club etc. 

I prefer to support the success of the team over the success of any individual player.

But, to each his own...

Anyway we're never going to get Lukaku but it's fun to think about.   

Well, see, this is part of the problem running through the supporters group in the last few years, they care more about liking players than about winning.  If you look at it objectively, Sturridge is a cracking player, but Lukaku is world class.  If Suarez and Sturridge is one of the best duos in England, Suarez and Lukaku would be one of the best in Europe.  Hands down. 

But, you "like" Sturridge more, and couldn't give two shits about the CLUB succeeding, so, yea....

In any event, it's by no means suggesting Sturridge isn't a top player, I'd take him above almost every other striker in the league except maybe van Persie, Dzeko, Aguero etc.  But Lukaku has the ability to be one of the top players in the WORLD.  He really is that good.

OK, so now Dezeko is one of the top 3 strikers in the league.

Great stuff, loony.

Hahaha
Your observation about Sturridge and Lukaku is entirely correct as is the statement regarding the poster's credibility.

Fed? I rate his posts highly as he speaks his mind,  not just what is required to avoid an angry mob style trouncing. Even though I don't agree with everything he says,  I respect those opinions over a correct opinion that has been delivered in some of the absurdly abusive language commonly seen from some of the posters viewed with so called credibility. In my opinion there would be no reason they wouldn't all fit in in one lineup if the theoretical situation was a reality,  however Sturridge is tried and tested success here and some so called great players flopped here therefore Sturridge over Lukaku all day long.

F***ing hell, it must be day release time again.

I blame thatcher and her care in the community program.

F***ing hell, it must be day release time again.

I blame thatcher and her care in the community program.

you're not remotely funny.  Using the mentality ill as ways for you to insult people you have a disagreement with on a football forum between two almost evenly matched players shows an extreme lack of intelligence. Please go take an IQ test and let us know the results.

you're not remotely funny.  Using the mentality ill as ways for you to insult people you have a disagreement with on a football forum between two almost evenly matched players shows an extreme lack of intelligence. Please go take an IQ test and let us know the results.

 

Irony deficiency.

Back to the topic at hand, I think it's not only important to consider whether a player is better in a certain position, but also how they gel with their team mates.

Lukaku may turn out to be a better play than Sturrdige (for instance) but would he link up as well with Suarez?

The only player I'd swap instantly would be Baines for any of our left backs.

You're quite deluded.  If you're going to pick certain players just "because they are ours" then what is the point at having an objective look at the combined XI?  Sturridge has been a cracking player for us and he hopefully will get even better, but I don't think any manager in the world, when offered either Sturridge or Lukaku, would pick Sturridge. 

And what on earth are you doing creating a choice between Barkley and Suarez?  Suarez is a striker FFS.  Barkley is already about ten times the player Henderson is, so it would be Barkley over Henderson.  Mirallas over Moses.  Coutinho clearly over Pienaar.

If it were a 4-4-3 it would look something like this:

Mignolet
Johson Skrtel Agger Baines
Barry Gerrard Barkley
Suarez Lukaku Coutinho

You're the closet manc/bitter aren't you?

For what it's worth, I looked at it impartially. If I was an Everton fan I'd have taken Barry over Lucas for instance, but because I made it a tie I opted for our one. That's not being biased.

You genuinely think most managers would take Lukaku over Sturridge right now? The former is very good but his first touch is often abysmal and he's not particularly good at linking the play up. Just a great goalscorer and unsettles defenders due to his sheer power. Sturridge has got a variety of goals in him unlike Lukaku- see his chip v West Brom, long range belter at Man City, silky skill goal at Aston Villa. I could go on. I won't.

As for the Barkley v Suarez thing... yeah in an ideal world it wouldn't be a contest between those two but as we play two up top and them only one, it was the logical move seeing as Barkley is their number ten and Suarez is our deepest striker. Plus you're overrating Barkley a bit- he's only been playing first team footy at Everton for six months, has scored twice in that time. Hardly proven enough to be an absolute cert in this team.

You just love to complain about anything though, don't you, so feck knows why I've bothered replying

Fed? I rate his posts highly as he speaks his mind,  not just what is required to avoid an angry mob style tof the absurdly abusive language commonly seen from some.

He does speak his mind consequently there are a good many who doubt his credibility, strange as it may seem your posts also involve similar reacttion.

The only player I'd swap instantly would be Baines for any of our left backs.

This. The rest = pile of steaming blue sh*te. 

I'd start Baines and have Lukaku on the bench.
The rest can F**k off, Barry included.

Just had a thought, what colours would they play in, the mind boggles!

Pick some of the blue sh*te  over our own lads?

A few days before the Derby?

No thanks.

Well, see, this is part of the problem running through the supporters group in the last few years, they care more about "liking" players than about winning.  If you look at it objectively, Sturridge is a cracking player, but Lukaku is world class.  If Suarez and Sturridge is one of the best duos in England, Suarez and Lukaku would be one of the best in Europe.  Hands down. 

But, you "like" Sturridge more, and couldn't give two shits about the CLUB succeeding, so, yea....

In any event, it's by no means suggesting Sturridge isn't a top player, I'd take him above almost every other striker in the league except maybe van Persie, Dzeko, Aguero etc.  But Lukaku has the ability to be one of the top players in the WORLD.  He really is that good.   And in the end I "like" our club more than I "like" any one player.

You apparently support Sturridge Football Club.  That's fine, there is another group, Lucas Football Club, there's also Borini Football Club, there was a Carroll Football Club etc. 

I prefer to support the success of the team over the success of any individual player.

But, to each his own...

Anyway we're never going to get Lukaku but it's fun to think about.   

Surely the bits in bold are a contradiction of terms are they not?

You either are world class or you have the ability to be. Suarez doesn't have the ability "to be" world class because he already is. As are Mignolet, Jones, Johnson, Kelly, Flanagan, Toure, Agger, Sakho, Skrtel, Coates, Enrique, Cissokho, Ilori, Lucas, Allen, Gerrard, Henderson, Alberto, Coutinho, Sterling, Ibe, Moses, Sturridge and Aspas.

So which one is Lukaku. Is he already world class or does he simply have the ability/potential "to be" world class?

Either way, I wouldn't take any of those bitter cu*ts into our team.

Pick some of the blue sh*te  over our own lads?

A few days before the Derby?

No thanks.

WTF is going on here. the very thought of coveting a player from the blueshite is mind boggling. If This is the modern era you can keep it.

That was a waste of one minute of my life playing along, the thread soon went to sh*t.

We should have a poll. 

If Chelsea tomorow offered us a straight swap with Sturridge for Lukaku, would you keep Sturridge or take Lukaku?

Think it's a very close call that, I could easily see a case made for either.

            Mignolet
Johnson   Agger    Sakho    Baines
             Lucas     Gerrard
                Coutinho
Suarez       Lukaku              Sturridge

so simple

What a pile of f***in sh*te this is, comparing blueshite players with ours, get f***in real people, what's next swapping with f***in mancs


FFS, Shanks would turn in his grave, this thread is akin to something you would see in a Villa forum or some other mediocre club,

I know today's fans have a different psyche but Jesus, we've come a hell of a long way since this.....

 'IF EVERTON WERE PLAYING AT THE BOTTOM OF MY GARDEN, I'D PULL THE CURTAINS'


Some posters on here need to pull their heads out of their arses !!

YNWA

WTF is going on here. the very thought of coveting a player from the blueshite is mind boggling. If This is the modern era you can keep it.

Yeah, because we've never bought an Everton player before

Can't be arsed to quote the post that inspired this reply, but supporting players as individuals is not mutually exclusive to supporting the club to the full as well, unless you have limited mental capabilty perhaps.  In fact, you can even like players of other clubs and should not be accused of supporting Player X FC.  You could also just think he is the just person for the job at the club and yet this imbecile, just because he has a different opinion, accuses you of not supporting the club!  What a shithouse way to think.

Can't be arsed to quote the post that inspired this reply, but supporting players as individuals is not mutually exclusive to supporting the club to the full as well, unless you have limited mental capabilty perhaps.  In fact, you can even like players of other clubs and should not be accused of supporting Player X FC.  You could also just think he is the just person for the job at the club and yet this imbecile, just because he has a different opinion, accuses you of not supporting the club!  What a shithouse way to think.

no a shithouse is someone who hasn't the guts to say what they think and sits on the fence.The derby to local people used to be a very important event and it could  deeply affect their lives for the next 5 or 6 months. considering the opposition players to be worthy of a place in our team is just not right especially just before the game.

What a pile of f***in sh*te this is, comparing blueshite players with ours, get f***in real people, what's next swapping with f***in mancs


FFS, Shanks would turn in his grave, this thread is akin to something you would see in a Villa forum or some other mediocre club,

I know today's fans have a different psyche but Jesus, we've come a hell of a long way since this.....

 'IF EVERTON WERE PLAYING AT THE BOTTOM OF MY GARDEN, I'D PULL THE CURTAINS'


Some posters on here need to pull their heads out of their arses !!

YNWA

Calm down. Do you really think Shankly's quote was anything more than tongue-in-cheek? The man knew a good player when he saw it and he would have admired a few from our competitors, Everton included.
It doesn't make anyone less of a fan playing along with this, if Everton have NO good players then they must be incredibly lucky to be so close to us in the table, now and for the last couple of seasons. It's simply realism.

I think Shankly believed every word he said its why people believed in him.

I immediately regret my decision clicking on this thread.

Academy team > Everton first XI. Sorted.

Calm down. Do you really think Shankly's quote was anything more than tongue-in-cheek? The man knew a good player when he saw it and he would have admired a few from our competitors, Everton included.
It doesn't make anyone less of a fan playing along with this, if Everton have NO good players then they must be incredibly lucky to be so close to us in the table, now and for the last couple of seasons. It's simply realism.

That might be true but he would never admit it, not to his players and most definitely not to those who idolised him,
 I'm not sure where your from mate but the derby to most is the biggest game we play in any season, I believe he meant every word he said and like those fans of the past, and I mean proper die hard scouse believed in him, it's such a shame the plastic variety of fans of today have no idea what it really means to get one over on THE enemy, hence f***in stupid threads such as this,

WE ARE LIVERPOOL , we are different to most that's why we stand out from anyone else,
I'm a wool mate, a Glaswegian wool, but I know exactly what it means to those die hard fans because it's in their blood in their DNA,

We all recognise that  'Blueshite' have some good players but to have a thread comparing our with theirs is total f***in bollocks IMO,

That's its it for me I'm out, and drawing my curtains



YNWA

no a shithouse is someone who hasn't the guts to say what they think and sits on the fence.The derby to local people used to be a very important event and it could  deeply affect their lives for the next 5 or 6 months. considering the opposition players to be worthy of a place in our team is just not right especially just before the game.

Maybe you should have looked for the post I couldn't be arsed to quote, as it was bashing Liverpool fans for supporting Liverpool players.

Maybe you should have looked for the post I couldn't be arsed to quote, as it was bashing Liverpool fans for supporting Liverpool players.

Its a general comment on what it appears is a softening of the meaning of being a ~Liverpool supporter not aimed at you.

Good to see Federer maintaining his usual level of WUMery. Why people still reply to his obvious bating is beyond me.

As for the OP, Its really only Baines that would walk onto our team. Coleman edges it over Enrique, Barkley looks a real prospect, and will probably be snapped up by Arsenal some day.

Jesus Christ, some of the replies to this are comedy gold!

It's a forum. A forum is a place where people discuss football. A Merseyside derby is coming up so I thought it would be interesting to discuss something like this. If you've got nothing to contribute to the discussion, then don't say anything. Keep it shut and draw your curtains.

Honestly forums amaze me sometimes. As if people on the Internet try to lecture people on what they can and can't discuss. Idiots.

And for what it's worth, I'm from Liverpool and don't like the bitters one bit. So work that one out.

Jesus Christ, some of the replies to this are comedy gold!

It's a forum. A forum is a place where people discuss football. A Merseyside derby is coming up so I thought it would be interesting to discuss something like this. If you've got nothing to contribute to the discussion, then don't say anything. Keep it shut and draw your curtains.

Honestly forums amaze me sometimes. As if people on the Internet try to lecture people on what they can and can't discuss. Idiots.

And for what it's worth, I'm from Liverpool and don't like the bitters one bit. So work that one out.

Nothing wrong with the post at all, it promotes discussion, surely what a forum is all about.

The hilarious premise that all our players are world class and that we shouldn't covet players from other teams is beyond naive considering what we watch every week. We buy players, it's called a transfer, to do that you must believe that they're better than what you have.

We should have a poll. 

If Chelsea tomorow offered us a straight swap with Sturridge for Lukaku, would you keep Sturridge or take Lukaku?

Why? Actually, no not why because it's not something even worth discussing, bloody pointless. Love how of all the things to talk about you come up with this master stroke!


Combined LFC/EFC......wouldn't contain any EFC players that's for sure

Combined LFC/EFC......wouldn't contain any EFC players that's for sure

Liverpool and Liverpool reserves.

The hilarious premise that all our players are world class and that we shouldn't covet players from other teams is beyond naive...

Fair point Luke but ain't this more about the current trend of ridiculing our own more than coveting others? And "hilarious"? Mate, you're better than that. 

Is there much to be gained, as a Liverpool supporter, by coveting players from other teams day in, day out, week in week out, whilst ridiculing our own players? I mean; where would you draw the line? Because...

By the logic that 'there's always better out there' (which is true, in every case) why don't we discuss and ridicule every player on the team and not just this week's/month's/season's scapegoat? Most, if not all , the players "we" covet (and compare with our own) are unattainable; most, if not all, of the players "we" covet will never wear Liverpool Red.

Put it this way; when most of "us" jumped on the "Downing is sh*te" bandwagon: the players we "coveted", [to replace him], the players we dreamed of: were any of them Oussama Assaidi or Iago Aspas?

So what's more "naive": coveting players, from other teams, who we will never sign, or the suggestion that "we" are better served, as Liverpool fans, supporting our own?

Just to be clear: I see this thread as a bit of fun and nothing else - I have no problem playing along; safe in the knowledge that Leighton Baines won't be wearing Liverpool Red anytime soon. I like him as a footballer but don't "covet" him because to do so would be F***ing daft on so many levels.

Then again; maybe I'm naive and not a cynical aul git after all. 

Fair point Luke but ain't this more about the current trend of ridiculing our own more than coveting others? And "hilarious"? Mate, you're better than that. 

Is there much to be gained, as a Liverpool supporter, by coveting players from other teams day in, day out, week in week out, whilst ridiculing our own players? I mean; where would you draw the line? Because...

By the logic that 'there's always better out there' (which is true, in every case) why don't we discuss and ridicule every player on the team and not just this week's/month's/season's scapegoat? Most, if not all , the players "we" covet (and compare with our own) are unattainable; most, if not all, of the players "we" covet will never wear Liverpool Red.

Put it this way; when most of "us" jumped on the "Downing is sh*te" bandwagon: the players we "coveted", [to replace him], the players we dreamed of: were any of them Oussama Assaidi or Iago Aspas?

So what's more "naive": coveting players, from other teams, who we will never sign, or the suggestion that "we" are better served, as Liverpool fans, supporting our own?

Just to be clear: I see this thread as a bit of fun and nothing else - I have no problem playing along; safe in the knowledge that Leighton Baines won't be wearing Liverpool Red anytime soon. I like him as a footballer but don't "covet" him because to do so would be f**king daft on so many levels.

Then again; maybe I'm naive and not a cynical aul git after all. 

Yes hilarious to suggest that all our players are world class BBB.

Covet may be the wrong word but in every walk in life you should look to improve, even when you're on top. To improve as a football club the most obvious and simplest way to do that is replace one of your players with a better one. So whether you choose to call this coveting or identifying a weakness is up to you, but it is naive to think that we live in some utopian universe where all our players are world class and even when they drop a level or two just our support will bring them back or excel them from their bang average level to help Liverpool Football Club achieve all it's dreams.

So question my level of support all you want, I'll die with Liverpool red in my veins and I'll always want the very best for this club. Unfortunately at this time that means realising some of our players are not good enough to take us where this club belongs and that's to be the best club in the world.

As for this:

Put it this way; when most of "us" jumped on the "Downing is sh*te" bandwagon: the players we "coveted", [to replace him], the players we dreamed of: were any of them Oussama Assaidi or Iago Aspas?

So what's more "naive": coveting players, from other teams, who we will never sign, or the suggestion that "we" are better served, as Liverpool fans, supporting our own?

Downing remains sh*te no matter who we brought in to replace him, it bears no reflection on Downing himself. All you demonstrate is a fan who is willing to accept mediocrity for the fear we may bring in worse! If you're afraid to change the sh*te for fear of bringing in worse then there are clearly problems elsewhere too.

As for the suggestion that certain players are out of our reach and it being naive to chase them, yes you're probably right on that suggestion. Who truly is out of our reach none of us fans really know that though, so only our backroom staff can truly accept the tag of naive in that situation. Was that the case with Willian/Mkhitaryan/Costa, perhaps, but they are the ones who know the true reach of our collective resources.

So to suggest I could be naive for wanting better players than the worst players we currently have playing? I can't accept that BBB.

Covet may be the wrong word but in every walk in life you should look to improve, even when you're on top. To improve as a football club the most obvious and simplest way to do that is replace one of your players with a better one.

No problem there; either with "covet" being the wrong word or the need to improve, even when on top. I have never disputed that ; quite the contrary, if anyone cares to check my posts.

The point I made or at least thought I had made is; that ridiculing our own, whilst coveting [the right word] other players, who we'll never see in Liverpool Red, is every bit as daft as suggesting that all our players are world class. That singling one player out doesn't sit right with me. I'm not asking for you to agree with my opinion and I'm sorry if it makes anyone feel uncomfortable but I make no apologies for expressing it.

Downing remains sh*te no matter who we brought in to replace him, it bears no reflection on Downing himself. All you demonstrate is a fan who is willing to accept mediocrity for the fear we may bring in worse!

You really are confusing me with someone else mate... again a quick through my posts on that subject will put you straight and maybe stop the daft accusations.

Yeah "Downing is sh*te" and those brought in to replace him won't change that - just as the supporters, on that particular, whiny-assed, mocking bandwagon have no bearing on the subject either.

The same, whiny-assed, mocking yaps pop up every year with a different scapegoat. Sometimes, in a good year, they get lucky and have more than one "sh*te" Liverpool player to whine about. Again I'll make no apologies for disliking that trait.

So question my level of support all you want

Oh... that's what I did; is it?

Here's me thinking I only asked: "Is there much to be gained, as a Liverpool supporter, by coveting players from other teams day in, day out, week in week out, whilst ridiculing our own players?" but in reality I was questioning your loyalty. Right.

My apologies if you needed to read it that way but read it again - I questioned no-one's loyalty. If you believe there's something to be gained - fair enough.

So there we have it Luke: three straw-man arguments - i) I don't believe we shouldn't look to improve ii) I accept mediocrity and iii) I've questioned your loyalty... Really? I mean; F***ing really?

Tell you what - it's maybe best we just leave it there. Good luck.

Baines is sh*te anyway

Come on lads lets just rip into these bitter bas**rds today rather than fall out over them.

I'd take Cissokho any day of the week.

This thread has got very silly. It's only here because we're playing the Bitters tomorrow. But it's spiralled into something else.

There's LOADS of players in the Premiership I wish we could sign. There's one in every rival team. In some cases four or five. As a club we shouldn't be driven by sentiment, and historically we never have: if a better player became available, they were bought. Very simple, really. Or at least it used to be, when we could afford to outbid our rivals and poach lesser teams best players.

And as for Everton, yeah, I'd like to see Lukaku, Baines, McCarthy playing for Liverpool. They might not play every week, mind.

I'd take Cissokho any day of the week.

Isn't that the problem?  Any one can take Cissokho, any time of the week.

Isn't that the problem?  Any one can take Cissokho, any time of the week.

 

True Rodders.

No problem there; either with "covet" being the wrong word or the need to improve, even when on top. I have never disputed that ; quite the contrary, if anyone cares to check my posts.

First, let's be clear on what we're calling covet here. My interpretation of covet is "to want but also feel guilt for that wanting" of anything. If you disagree with this then perhaps it's simply a misunderstanding.

I certainly do not feel any guilt in wanting better players at Liverpool. I do not covet, let's say Leighton Baines for example, I just simply want better than what we have in our weakest positions, something you're claiming to agree with but also advising against!?

The point I made or at least thought I had made is; that ridiculing our own, whilst coveting [the right word] other players, who we'll never see in Liverpool Red, is every bit as daft as suggesting that all our players are world class. That singling one player out doesn't sit right with me.

Here we agree and I did in fact describe at length how without knowledge of our resources we'll never be able to make accurate choices as to whom those improvements could be. Rather than "coveting" someone though, I believe most of us would  like to see efforts made to improve in our weakest areas. In doing this do you not accept though a certain level of singling out must be done? It's all very well saying we should support all that wear the shirt, never say a bad word against them but then at the same time say that we must identify weaknesses and look to improve, I don't believe both can co-exist.

Yes I'd agree with you that nobody should be ridiculed and I personally attempt to never do this. In times of frustration my criticisms may overstep that mark, but that is purely out of the want for the betterment of Liverpool Football Club. It is never my intention to actively ridicule a player, but identify the ones that are holding us back the most, yes I think that is a healthy exercise if we want to return to the top.

You really are confusing me with someone else mate... again a quick through my posts on that subject will put you straight and maybe stop the daft accusations.

This wasn't an accusation, it was my interpretation of what I believe you were 'demonstrating' in that paragraph. I didn't believe you were demonstrating yourself and if you took it as that then you simply misinterpreted my point.

Yeah "Downing is sh*te" and those brought in to replace him won't change that - just as the supporters, on that particular, whiny-assed, mocking bandwagon have no bearing on the subject either.

The same, whiny-assed, mocking yaps pop up every year with a different scapegoat. Sometimes, in a good year, they get lucky and have more than one "sh*te" Liverpool player to whine about. Again I'll make no apologies for disliking that trait.

"Scapegoat" or "Downing is sh*te"? If a player is sh*te and is holding us back, then is he being made a scapegoat or is that a fact? I believe a scapegoat is someone who doesn't merit such negative attention or blame. If I truly believe Downing was holding us back and is sh*te am I making him a scapegoat or just saying it as I see it?

As for "they get lucky and have more than one sh*te Liverpool player to whine about", you really believe any true Liverpool supporter would think themselves "lucky" to have sh*te players in the team? This is where I get the impression, rightly or wrongly, that you do at some level question my support for the club. Because if you truly believe that I feel "lucky" when there are more "sh*te" players in the team to criticise or "ridicule" then you can't also believe that I'm a whole-hearted Liverpool supporter and must therefore believe your level of support is "better", "more enlightened", "with more loyalty", whatever you choose. This could be where I misinterpret your point, but I would never feel "lucky" to have more sh*te players to criticise, in fact it would be a dream to have nobody to criticise at all. I have said before that I do search for faults and that is a character flaw I have, I openly admit that, but feeling "lucky" to criticise them, never.

 

So there we have it Luke: three straw-man arguments - i) I don't believe we shouldn't look to improve ii) I accept mediocrity and iii) I've questioned your loyalty... Really? I mean; f**king really?

So there we have it BBB i) I do believe you think we should look to improve, but I also believe it's a little contradictory to suggest we should support everyone in the team at the same time, at some point these two cannot co-exist. ii) I don't believe you accept medicrity, I do believe what you demonstrated was a fan who accepts mediocrity and who you demonstrated wasn't actually a reflection of yourself and iii) perhaps you weren't questioning my loyalty and that was my misinterpretation.

First, let's be clear on what we're calling covet here. My interpretation of covet is "to want but also feel guilt for that wanting" of anything. If you disagree with this then perhaps it's simply a misunderstanding.

No problem - I'm going, old-school, OED.

As for "they get lucky and have more than one sh*te Liverpool player to whine about", you really believe any true Liverpool supporter would think themselves "lucky" to have sh*te players in the team? This is where I get the impression, rightly or wrongly, that you do at some level question my support for the club.

This wasn't an accusation, it was my interpretation of what I believe you were 'demonstrating' in that paragraph. I didn't believe you were demonstrating yourself and if you took it as that then you simply misinterpreted my point.

So there we have it BBB i) I do believe you think we should look to improve, but I also believe it's a little contradictory to suggest we should support everyone in the team at the same time, at some point these two cannot co-exist. ii) I don't believe you accept medicrity, I do believe what you demonstrated was a fan who accepts mediocrity and who you demonstrated wasn't actually a reflection of yourself and iii) perhaps you weren't questioning my loyalty and that was my misinterpretation.

Good. Misinterpretation, all round, it is then. 

but I also believe it's a little contradictory to suggest we should support everyone in the team at the same time,

This for me is what is wrong with supporters these days. It seems to be ok now to support half the players on the team, and still be a Liverpool fan. As far as I'm concerned , Liverpool Fc is made up with the players that are here now, not who should be, and as long as their in my team I'll get behind them.

Everyone knows we have players on the team who are not of the standard we would wish for, its obvious there are better players out there, but that's the point, they're out there, not here.

You can only F**k with the Dick you have!

Lets leave the Liverpool player/manager to the Mancs and Bitters.

What a pile of f***in sh*te this is, comparing blueshite players with ours, get f***in real people, what's next swapping with f***in mancs


FFS, Shanks would turn in his grave, this thread is akin to something you would see in a Villa forum or some other mediocre club,

I know today's fans have a different psyche but Jesus, we've come a hell of a long way since this.....

 'IF EVERTON WERE PLAYING AT THE BOTTOM OF MY GARDEN, I'D PULL THE CURTAINS'


Some posters on here need to pull their heads out of their arses !!

YNWA

What about a Liverpool/Brasil combined or Barca?

I'm with you here 100%


Oh, just to join in the debate, here's my combined team:

Mignolet
Kelly, Skrtel, Sakho, Johnson
Gerrard, Lucas, Coutinho, Hendo
Sturridge, Suarez,

Manager Rodgers.

This for me is what is wrong with supporters these days. It seems to be ok now to support half the players on the team, and still be a Liverpool fan. As far as I'm concerned , Liverpool Fc is made up with the players that are here now, not who should be, and as long as their in my team I'll get behind them.

Everyone knows we have players on the team who are not of the standard we would wish for, its obvious there are better players out there, but that's the point, they're out there, not here.

You can only f**k with the Dick you have!

Lets leave the Liverpool player/manager to the Mancs and Bitters.

So out of my post you pulled one sentence and came to that conclusion, thanks for that.

Just a few questions then:

Do you think we have the best squad in the league?
Do you think we'll win the league?
Do you think we'll win the Champions League with the current squad?
Are the Champions League or League title part of your aspirations for Liverpool?

Going by your words "Everyone knows we have players on the team who are not of the standard we would wish for, its obvious there are better players out there, but that's the point, they're out there, not here." I'll assume your answers are: No, no, no and yes.

So therefore, what would you do to rectify the problem?

a) Support the team without wavering, no matter the standard of player wearing the shirt, he wears the shirt therefore I as a supporter should do my duty and cheer him and the lads on regardless?
b) Support the team without wavering, accept we have substandard players in certain positions and hope they get replaced so that LFC can fulfill my aspirations.
c) Support the team without wavering, accept we have substandard players in certain positions, try to identify them and think what could be done to improve our lot? Perhaps even discuss this on a forum with other supporters of a like mind.

All 3 will lead to the same place, I don't suggest you're wrong, I do believe that c) brings about more interesting debate and intrigues me more than simply entering each player thread and saying "come on (insert player name)!"

What I would also say is that I believe 99% of those that would choose b) or c) when at the match would support 100% of the team and you'd only hear debate here, or outside the ground.

In any case, I want Liverpool to win the league again in my lifetime, I want Liverpool to win the Champions League again in my lifetime, I don't believe we currently have the squad capable of doing either and an LFC forum seems the best place for people to discuss how we can go about that. If you believe I'm wrong for doing that, then I'll have to live with it.

So out of my post you pulled one sentence and came to that conclusion, thanks for that.

Just a few questions then:

Do you think we have the best squad in the league?
Do you think we'll win the league?
Do you think we'll win the Champions League with the current squad?
Are the Champions League or League title part of your aspirations for Liverpool?

Going by your words "Everyone knows we have players on the team who are not of the standard we would wish for, its obvious there are better players out there, but that's the point, they're out there, not here." I'll assume your answers are: No, no, no and yes.

So therefore, what would you do to rectify the problem?

a) Support the team without wavering, no matter the standard of player wearing the shirt, he wears the shirt therefore I as a supporter should do my duty and cheer him and the lads on regardless?
b) Support the team without wavering, accept we have substandard players in certain positions and hope they get replaced so that LFC can fulfill my aspirations.
c) Support the team without wavering, accept we have substandard players in certain positions, try to identify them and think what could be done to improve our lot? Perhaps even discuss this on a forum with other supporters of a like mind.

All 3 will lead to the same place, I don't suggest you're wrong, I do believe that c) brings about more interesting debate and intrigues me more than simply entering each player thread and saying "come on (insert player name)!"

What I would also say is that I believe 99% of those that would choose b) or c) when at the match would support 100% of the team and you'd only hear debate here, or outside the ground.

In any case, I want Liverpool to win the league again in my lifetime, I want Liverpool to win the Champions League again in my lifetime, I don't believe we currently have the squad capable of doing either and an LFC forum seems the best place for people to discuss how we can go about that. If you believe I'm wrong for doing that, then I'll have to live with it.

This wasn't meant as a slight on you Luke. And of course I choose C.
But there's constructive criticism (which I believe you fall into the category of), and there is the blatant witch hunt and need to constantly put the boot into certain players, (like you know who).

As supporters we can give our opinions, that's our right, but the squad is what it is and there is nothing we can do but get behind them.
There are some poor excuses for "fans" who only come on this forum to put the lads down.

When I was a kid I used to idolize the players, much like my 10 year old does now. He has a simple way of looking at it, he loves Liverpool, therefore he loves the players, because they pull on the Red shirt.

If FSG want to cough up the money to buy better players then of course I'm all for it, no one is irreplaceable, but they won't. So we can bash players all we want, they're still going to be here.

a) Support the team without wavering, no matter the standard of player wearing the shirt, he wears the shirt therefore I as a supporter should do my duty and cheer him and the lads on regardless?

b) Support the team without wavering, accept we have substandard players in certain positions and hope they get replaced so that LFC can fulfill my aspirations.

c) Support the team without wavering, accept we have substandard players in certain positions, try to identify them and think what could be done to improve our lot? Perhaps even discuss this on a forum with other supporters of a like mind.

It's c mate..... it's always c

If Lukaku is so much better than Sturridge than why has he been sent on loan two years in a row when his home club is devoid of striking options? Sturridge has more goals, more skill, better movement and better link up play. Lukaku is stronger, younger, and better in the air. Ill take Sturridge in a heartbeat today. If we are looking to the future this is a debate worth having but today Sturridge is the better player.

If Lukaku is so much better than Sturridge than why has he been sent on loan two years in a row when his home club is devoid of striking options? Sturridge has more goals, more skill, better movement and better link up play. Lukaku is stronger, younger, and better in the air. Ill take Sturridge in a heartbeat today. If we are looking to the future this is a debate worth having but today Sturridge is the better player.

Weird isn't it mate.  Everyone knows we need players for the here and now to push us on yet some would replace our leading goalscorer with "one for the future".  As much as I rate Lukaku he's not what we need 'right now'.

If Lukaku is so much better than Sturridge than why has he been sent on loan two years in a row when his home club is devoid of striking options? Sturridge has more goals, more skill, better movement and better link up play. Lukaku is stronger, younger, and better in the air.

What are you basing that on?

Lukaku is indeed stronger and better in the air.  But he's also fast (long distances), quick (short distances), and has good link up play, just like Sturridge.  And more skill?  you talk like Lukaku is some sort of Andy Carroll or something.  Have you ever actually watched him play, for example with the Belgian NT?  he has ridiculous skill on the ball, he just doesn't need it very often.  I'm really sorry but there's nothing Sturridge can do that Lukaku can't do, and yet Lukaku has a slight advantage for me due to his physical presence in the air as well as his threat on the ground.

Don't get me wrong, they're both fantastic players and thank God we are finally shot of that donkey Carroll.  But Lukaku is going to be world class pretty soon, and if I had to pick today I would take him, for both now and the future.

No point in arguing since you obviously have superior knowledge . We will have to agree to disagree. Ill take the leagues leading goal scorer.

Does Phil Dowd qualify for this?

                               Mignolet

            Johnson   Jagielka   Sakho   Baines

                          Gerrard    Lucas

        Suarez               Barkley              Coutinho

                              Sturridge

I'd have Southall in goal and Rush as a striker that way poor Neville doesn't ship 5!

Mignolet

Johnson
Agger
Jagielka
Baines

Lucas
Barkley
Gerrard


Sturridge
Suarez
Lukaku