Your Liverpool/Everton Combined XI

The hilarious premise that all our players are world class and that we shouldn't covet players from other teams is beyond naive...

Fair point Luke but ain't this more about the current trend of ridiculing our own more than coveting others? And "hilarious"? Mate, you're better than that. 

Is there much to be gained, as a Liverpool supporter, by coveting players from other teams day in, day out, week in week out, whilst ridiculing our own players? I mean; where would you draw the line? Because...

By the logic that 'there's always better out there' (which is true, in every case) why don't we discuss and ridicule every player on the team and not just this week's/month's/season's scapegoat? Most, if not all , the players "we" covet (and compare with our own) are unattainable; most, if not all, of the players "we" covet will never wear Liverpool Red.

Put it this way; when most of "us" jumped on the "Downing is sh*te" bandwagon: the players we "coveted", [to replace him], the players we dreamed of: were any of them Oussama Assaidi or Iago Aspas?

So what's more "naive": coveting players, from other teams, who we will never sign, or the suggestion that "we" are better served, as Liverpool fans, supporting our own?

Just to be clear: I see this thread as a bit of fun and nothing else - I have no problem playing along; safe in the knowledge that Leighton Baines won't be wearing Liverpool Red anytime soon. I like him as a footballer but don't "covet" him because to do so would be F***ing daft on so many levels.

Then again; maybe I'm naive and not a cynical aul git after all. 

Fair point Luke but ain't this more about the current trend of ridiculing our own more than coveting others? And "hilarious"? Mate, you're better than that. 

Is there much to be gained, as a Liverpool supporter, by coveting players from other teams day in, day out, week in week out, whilst ridiculing our own players? I mean; where would you draw the line? Because...

By the logic that 'there's always better out there' (which is true, in every case) why don't we discuss and ridicule every player on the team and not just this week's/month's/season's scapegoat? Most, if not all , the players "we" covet (and compare with our own) are unattainable; most, if not all, of the players "we" covet will never wear Liverpool Red.

Put it this way; when most of "us" jumped on the "Downing is sh*te" bandwagon: the players we "coveted", [to replace him], the players we dreamed of: were any of them Oussama Assaidi or Iago Aspas?

So what's more "naive": coveting players, from other teams, who we will never sign, or the suggestion that "we" are better served, as Liverpool fans, supporting our own?

Just to be clear: I see this thread as a bit of fun and nothing else - I have no problem playing along; safe in the knowledge that Leighton Baines won't be wearing Liverpool Red anytime soon. I like him as a footballer but don't "covet" him because to do so would be f**king daft on so many levels.

Then again; maybe I'm naive and not a cynical aul git after all. 

Yes hilarious to suggest that all our players are world class BBB.

Covet may be the wrong word but in every walk in life you should look to improve, even when you're on top. To improve as a football club the most obvious and simplest way to do that is replace one of your players with a better one. So whether you choose to call this coveting or identifying a weakness is up to you, but it is naive to think that we live in some utopian universe where all our players are world class and even when they drop a level or two just our support will bring them back or excel them from their bang average level to help Liverpool Football Club achieve all it's dreams.

So question my level of support all you want, I'll die with Liverpool red in my veins and I'll always want the very best for this club. Unfortunately at this time that means realising some of our players are not good enough to take us where this club belongs and that's to be the best club in the world.

As for this:

Put it this way; when most of "us" jumped on the "Downing is sh*te" bandwagon: the players we "coveted", [to replace him], the players we dreamed of: were any of them Oussama Assaidi or Iago Aspas?

So what's more "naive": coveting players, from other teams, who we will never sign, or the suggestion that "we" are better served, as Liverpool fans, supporting our own?

Downing remains sh*te no matter who we brought in to replace him, it bears no reflection on Downing himself. All you demonstrate is a fan who is willing to accept mediocrity for the fear we may bring in worse! If you're afraid to change the sh*te for fear of bringing in worse then there are clearly problems elsewhere too.

As for the suggestion that certain players are out of our reach and it being naive to chase them, yes you're probably right on that suggestion. Who truly is out of our reach none of us fans really know that though, so only our backroom staff can truly accept the tag of naive in that situation. Was that the case with Willian/Mkhitaryan/Costa, perhaps, but they are the ones who know the true reach of our collective resources.

So to suggest I could be naive for wanting better players than the worst players we currently have playing? I can't accept that BBB.

Covet may be the wrong word but in every walk in life you should look to improve, even when you're on top. To improve as a football club the most obvious and simplest way to do that is replace one of your players with a better one.

No problem there; either with "covet" being the wrong word or the need to improve, even when on top. I have never disputed that ; quite the contrary, if anyone cares to check my posts.

The point I made or at least thought I had made is; that ridiculing our own, whilst coveting [the right word] other players, who we'll never see in Liverpool Red, is every bit as daft as suggesting that all our players are world class. That singling one player out doesn't sit right with me. I'm not asking for you to agree with my opinion and I'm sorry if it makes anyone feel uncomfortable but I make no apologies for expressing it.

Downing remains sh*te no matter who we brought in to replace him, it bears no reflection on Downing himself. All you demonstrate is a fan who is willing to accept mediocrity for the fear we may bring in worse!

You really are confusing me with someone else mate... again a quick through my posts on that subject will put you straight and maybe stop the daft accusations.

Yeah "Downing is sh*te" and those brought in to replace him won't change that - just as the supporters, on that particular, whiny-assed, mocking bandwagon have no bearing on the subject either.

The same, whiny-assed, mocking yaps pop up every year with a different scapegoat. Sometimes, in a good year, they get lucky and have more than one "sh*te" Liverpool player to whine about. Again I'll make no apologies for disliking that trait.

So question my level of support all you want

Oh... that's what I did; is it?

Here's me thinking I only asked: "Is there much to be gained, as a Liverpool supporter, by coveting players from other teams day in, day out, week in week out, whilst ridiculing our own players?" but in reality I was questioning your loyalty. Right.

My apologies if you needed to read it that way but read it again - I questioned no-one's loyalty. If you believe there's something to be gained - fair enough.

So there we have it Luke: three straw-man arguments - i) I don't believe we shouldn't look to improve ii) I accept mediocrity and iii) I've questioned your loyalty... Really? I mean; F***ing really?

Tell you what - it's maybe best we just leave it there. Good luck.

Baines is sh*te anyway

Come on lads lets just rip into these bitter bas**rds today rather than fall out over them.

I'd take Cissokho any day of the week.

This thread has got very silly. It's only here because we're playing the Bitters tomorrow. But it's spiralled into something else.

There's LOADS of players in the Premiership I wish we could sign. There's one in every rival team. In some cases four or five. As a club we shouldn't be driven by sentiment, and historically we never have: if a better player became available, they were bought. Very simple, really. Or at least it used to be, when we could afford to outbid our rivals and poach lesser teams best players.

And as for Everton, yeah, I'd like to see Lukaku, Baines, McCarthy playing for Liverpool. They might not play every week, mind.

I'd take Cissokho any day of the week.

Isn't that the problem?  Any one can take Cissokho, any time of the week.

Isn't that the problem?  Any one can take Cissokho, any time of the week.

 

True Rodders.

No problem there; either with "covet" being the wrong word or the need to improve, even when on top. I have never disputed that ; quite the contrary, if anyone cares to check my posts.

First, let's be clear on what we're calling covet here. My interpretation of covet is "to want but also feel guilt for that wanting" of anything. If you disagree with this then perhaps it's simply a misunderstanding.

I certainly do not feel any guilt in wanting better players at Liverpool. I do not covet, let's say Leighton Baines for example, I just simply want better than what we have in our weakest positions, something you're claiming to agree with but also advising against!?

The point I made or at least thought I had made is; that ridiculing our own, whilst coveting [the right word] other players, who we'll never see in Liverpool Red, is every bit as daft as suggesting that all our players are world class. That singling one player out doesn't sit right with me.

Here we agree and I did in fact describe at length how without knowledge of our resources we'll never be able to make accurate choices as to whom those improvements could be. Rather than "coveting" someone though, I believe most of us would  like to see efforts made to improve in our weakest areas. In doing this do you not accept though a certain level of singling out must be done? It's all very well saying we should support all that wear the shirt, never say a bad word against them but then at the same time say that we must identify weaknesses and look to improve, I don't believe both can co-exist.

Yes I'd agree with you that nobody should be ridiculed and I personally attempt to never do this. In times of frustration my criticisms may overstep that mark, but that is purely out of the want for the betterment of Liverpool Football Club. It is never my intention to actively ridicule a player, but identify the ones that are holding us back the most, yes I think that is a healthy exercise if we want to return to the top.

You really are confusing me with someone else mate... again a quick through my posts on that subject will put you straight and maybe stop the daft accusations.

This wasn't an accusation, it was my interpretation of what I believe you were 'demonstrating' in that paragraph. I didn't believe you were demonstrating yourself and if you took it as that then you simply misinterpreted my point.

Yeah "Downing is sh*te" and those brought in to replace him won't change that - just as the supporters, on that particular, whiny-assed, mocking bandwagon have no bearing on the subject either.

The same, whiny-assed, mocking yaps pop up every year with a different scapegoat. Sometimes, in a good year, they get lucky and have more than one "sh*te" Liverpool player to whine about. Again I'll make no apologies for disliking that trait.

"Scapegoat" or "Downing is sh*te"? If a player is sh*te and is holding us back, then is he being made a scapegoat or is that a fact? I believe a scapegoat is someone who doesn't merit such negative attention or blame. If I truly believe Downing was holding us back and is sh*te am I making him a scapegoat or just saying it as I see it?

As for "they get lucky and have more than one sh*te Liverpool player to whine about", you really believe any true Liverpool supporter would think themselves "lucky" to have sh*te players in the team? This is where I get the impression, rightly or wrongly, that you do at some level question my support for the club. Because if you truly believe that I feel "lucky" when there are more "sh*te" players in the team to criticise or "ridicule" then you can't also believe that I'm a whole-hearted Liverpool supporter and must therefore believe your level of support is "better", "more enlightened", "with more loyalty", whatever you choose. This could be where I misinterpret your point, but I would never feel "lucky" to have more sh*te players to criticise, in fact it would be a dream to have nobody to criticise at all. I have said before that I do search for faults and that is a character flaw I have, I openly admit that, but feeling "lucky" to criticise them, never.

 

So there we have it Luke: three straw-man arguments - i) I don't believe we shouldn't look to improve ii) I accept mediocrity and iii) I've questioned your loyalty... Really? I mean; f**king really?

So there we have it BBB i) I do believe you think we should look to improve, but I also believe it's a little contradictory to suggest we should support everyone in the team at the same time, at some point these two cannot co-exist. ii) I don't believe you accept medicrity, I do believe what you demonstrated was a fan who accepts mediocrity and who you demonstrated wasn't actually a reflection of yourself and iii) perhaps you weren't questioning my loyalty and that was my misinterpretation.

First, let's be clear on what we're calling covet here. My interpretation of covet is "to want but also feel guilt for that wanting" of anything. If you disagree with this then perhaps it's simply a misunderstanding.

No problem - I'm going, old-school, OED.

As for "they get lucky and have more than one sh*te Liverpool player to whine about", you really believe any true Liverpool supporter would think themselves "lucky" to have sh*te players in the team? This is where I get the impression, rightly or wrongly, that you do at some level question my support for the club.

This wasn't an accusation, it was my interpretation of what I believe you were 'demonstrating' in that paragraph. I didn't believe you were demonstrating yourself and if you took it as that then you simply misinterpreted my point.

So there we have it BBB i) I do believe you think we should look to improve, but I also believe it's a little contradictory to suggest we should support everyone in the team at the same time, at some point these two cannot co-exist. ii) I don't believe you accept medicrity, I do believe what you demonstrated was a fan who accepts mediocrity and who you demonstrated wasn't actually a reflection of yourself and iii) perhaps you weren't questioning my loyalty and that was my misinterpretation.

Good. Misinterpretation, all round, it is then. 

but I also believe it's a little contradictory to suggest we should support everyone in the team at the same time,

This for me is what is wrong with supporters these days. It seems to be ok now to support half the players on the team, and still be a Liverpool fan. As far as I'm concerned , Liverpool Fc is made up with the players that are here now, not who should be, and as long as their in my team I'll get behind them.

Everyone knows we have players on the team who are not of the standard we would wish for, its obvious there are better players out there, but that's the point, they're out there, not here.

You can only F**k with the Dick you have!

Lets leave the Liverpool player/manager to the Mancs and Bitters.

What a pile of f***in sh*te this is, comparing blueshite players with ours, get f***in real people, what's next swapping with f***in mancs


FFS, Shanks would turn in his grave, this thread is akin to something you would see in a Villa forum or some other mediocre club,

I know today's fans have a different psyche but Jesus, we've come a hell of a long way since this.....

 'IF EVERTON WERE PLAYING AT THE BOTTOM OF MY GARDEN, I'D PULL THE CURTAINS'


Some posters on here need to pull their heads out of their arses !!

YNWA

What about a Liverpool/Brasil combined or Barca?

I'm with you here 100%


Oh, just to join in the debate, here's my combined team:

Mignolet
Kelly, Skrtel, Sakho, Johnson
Gerrard, Lucas, Coutinho, Hendo
Sturridge, Suarez,

Manager Rodgers.

This for me is what is wrong with supporters these days. It seems to be ok now to support half the players on the team, and still be a Liverpool fan. As far as I'm concerned , Liverpool Fc is made up with the players that are here now, not who should be, and as long as their in my team I'll get behind them.

Everyone knows we have players on the team who are not of the standard we would wish for, its obvious there are better players out there, but that's the point, they're out there, not here.

You can only f**k with the Dick you have!

Lets leave the Liverpool player/manager to the Mancs and Bitters.

So out of my post you pulled one sentence and came to that conclusion, thanks for that.

Just a few questions then:

Do you think we have the best squad in the league?
Do you think we'll win the league?
Do you think we'll win the Champions League with the current squad?
Are the Champions League or League title part of your aspirations for Liverpool?

Going by your words "Everyone knows we have players on the team who are not of the standard we would wish for, its obvious there are better players out there, but that's the point, they're out there, not here." I'll assume your answers are: No, no, no and yes.

So therefore, what would you do to rectify the problem?

a) Support the team without wavering, no matter the standard of player wearing the shirt, he wears the shirt therefore I as a supporter should do my duty and cheer him and the lads on regardless?
b) Support the team without wavering, accept we have substandard players in certain positions and hope they get replaced so that LFC can fulfill my aspirations.
c) Support the team without wavering, accept we have substandard players in certain positions, try to identify them and think what could be done to improve our lot? Perhaps even discuss this on a forum with other supporters of a like mind.

All 3 will lead to the same place, I don't suggest you're wrong, I do believe that c) brings about more interesting debate and intrigues me more than simply entering each player thread and saying "come on (insert player name)!"

What I would also say is that I believe 99% of those that would choose b) or c) when at the match would support 100% of the team and you'd only hear debate here, or outside the ground.

In any case, I want Liverpool to win the league again in my lifetime, I want Liverpool to win the Champions League again in my lifetime, I don't believe we currently have the squad capable of doing either and an LFC forum seems the best place for people to discuss how we can go about that. If you believe I'm wrong for doing that, then I'll have to live with it.

So out of my post you pulled one sentence and came to that conclusion, thanks for that.

Just a few questions then:

Do you think we have the best squad in the league?
Do you think we'll win the league?
Do you think we'll win the Champions League with the current squad?
Are the Champions League or League title part of your aspirations for Liverpool?

Going by your words "Everyone knows we have players on the team who are not of the standard we would wish for, its obvious there are better players out there, but that's the point, they're out there, not here." I'll assume your answers are: No, no, no and yes.

So therefore, what would you do to rectify the problem?

a) Support the team without wavering, no matter the standard of player wearing the shirt, he wears the shirt therefore I as a supporter should do my duty and cheer him and the lads on regardless?
b) Support the team without wavering, accept we have substandard players in certain positions and hope they get replaced so that LFC can fulfill my aspirations.
c) Support the team without wavering, accept we have substandard players in certain positions, try to identify them and think what could be done to improve our lot? Perhaps even discuss this on a forum with other supporters of a like mind.

All 3 will lead to the same place, I don't suggest you're wrong, I do believe that c) brings about more interesting debate and intrigues me more than simply entering each player thread and saying "come on (insert player name)!"

What I would also say is that I believe 99% of those that would choose b) or c) when at the match would support 100% of the team and you'd only hear debate here, or outside the ground.

In any case, I want Liverpool to win the league again in my lifetime, I want Liverpool to win the Champions League again in my lifetime, I don't believe we currently have the squad capable of doing either and an LFC forum seems the best place for people to discuss how we can go about that. If you believe I'm wrong for doing that, then I'll have to live with it.

This wasn't meant as a slight on you Luke. And of course I choose C.
But there's constructive criticism (which I believe you fall into the category of), and there is the blatant witch hunt and need to constantly put the boot into certain players, (like you know who).

As supporters we can give our opinions, that's our right, but the squad is what it is and there is nothing we can do but get behind them.
There are some poor excuses for "fans" who only come on this forum to put the lads down.

When I was a kid I used to idolize the players, much like my 10 year old does now. He has a simple way of looking at it, he loves Liverpool, therefore he loves the players, because they pull on the Red shirt.

If FSG want to cough up the money to buy better players then of course I'm all for it, no one is irreplaceable, but they won't. So we can bash players all we want, they're still going to be here.

a) Support the team without wavering, no matter the standard of player wearing the shirt, he wears the shirt therefore I as a supporter should do my duty and cheer him and the lads on regardless?

b) Support the team without wavering, accept we have substandard players in certain positions and hope they get replaced so that LFC can fulfill my aspirations.

c) Support the team without wavering, accept we have substandard players in certain positions, try to identify them and think what could be done to improve our lot? Perhaps even discuss this on a forum with other supporters of a like mind.

It's c mate..... it's always c

If Lukaku is so much better than Sturridge than why has he been sent on loan two years in a row when his home club is devoid of striking options? Sturridge has more goals, more skill, better movement and better link up play. Lukaku is stronger, younger, and better in the air. Ill take Sturridge in a heartbeat today. If we are looking to the future this is a debate worth having but today Sturridge is the better player.

If Lukaku is so much better than Sturridge than why has he been sent on loan two years in a row when his home club is devoid of striking options? Sturridge has more goals, more skill, better movement and better link up play. Lukaku is stronger, younger, and better in the air. Ill take Sturridge in a heartbeat today. If we are looking to the future this is a debate worth having but today Sturridge is the better player.

Weird isn't it mate.  Everyone knows we need players for the here and now to push us on yet some would replace our leading goalscorer with "one for the future".  As much as I rate Lukaku he's not what we need 'right now'.

If Lukaku is so much better than Sturridge than why has he been sent on loan two years in a row when his home club is devoid of striking options? Sturridge has more goals, more skill, better movement and better link up play. Lukaku is stronger, younger, and better in the air.

What are you basing that on?

Lukaku is indeed stronger and better in the air.  But he's also fast (long distances), quick (short distances), and has good link up play, just like Sturridge.  And more skill?  you talk like Lukaku is some sort of Andy Carroll or something.  Have you ever actually watched him play, for example with the Belgian NT?  he has ridiculous skill on the ball, he just doesn't need it very often.  I'm really sorry but there's nothing Sturridge can do that Lukaku can't do, and yet Lukaku has a slight advantage for me due to his physical presence in the air as well as his threat on the ground.

Don't get me wrong, they're both fantastic players and thank God we are finally shot of that donkey Carroll.  But Lukaku is going to be world class pretty soon, and if I had to pick today I would take him, for both now and the future.

No point in arguing since you obviously have superior knowledge . We will have to agree to disagree. Ill take the leagues leading goal scorer.

Does Phil Dowd qualify for this?

                               Mignolet

            Johnson   Jagielka   Sakho   Baines

                          Gerrard    Lucas

        Suarez               Barkley              Coutinho

                              Sturridge

I'd have Southall in goal and Rush as a striker that way poor Neville doesn't ship 5!

Mignolet

Johnson
Agger
Jagielka
Baines

Lucas
Barkley
Gerrard


Sturridge
Suarez
Lukaku