We're coping without them, but has the loss of Gerrard/Sturridge made us better?

The thing is, if we stick with the 4-4-3 (which i think we should), then Sturridge will have to play on the right as he has no reason to move Suarez or Coutinho. We know he had an issue with Chelsea about this so he is not going to be happy. Even if Sturridge was fit for thursday's game i see no reason to drop Sterling as he has been a big factor in our incredible form and it would be detrimental to the player. As much as i rate Sturridge as a player and agree that he was winning games, he is not going to put in a shift like Sterling, closing down opposition and tracking back, providing cover etc...
   
Rodgers has to say to Sturridge that this is his only way back in to the team. I don't want to see Rodgers changing a winning formation to accomodate a player, he's better than that.

it's a fantastic problem to have. seriously considering whether stevie or danny can get back into the team shows just how right rogers has got it so far.

it'll be harsh but i think stevie should slot in for lucas IF he merits it. he has to be better than lucas in that position to win his place.

there is absolutely no reason why those two, great players as they are, should merit a place straight back into the team. i think sturridge will have to compete with sterling OR coutinho and fight for a place.

i remember ian rush said in an interview that the liverpool team in the 80s was the most competitive he had ever come across. every player had to fight for their position week in week out regardless of reputation...look what they achieved in the process.

full of optimism right now.

The assumption being that the personnel, in situ, are doing a better job than those before them.

I personally don't think it's an "assumption" that we operate better as we are than we did previously, it's so much of an improvement that it's almost impossible to deny it.

To be honest - I only wrote "assumption" because I, personally, don't know, for sure, if the improvement is down to personnel or formation (as much as I like 4-3-3). However, if you're happy to say it's down to personnel, I'm happy to discuss it from that angle.

So... if we are looking at it from the personnel PoV - "Has the loss of Gerrard/Sturridge made us better?" and "we operate better as we are than we did previously". Then the answer is "yes".

However... if we know (or assume) that we are preforming better because of formation then to the question: "Has the loss of Gerrard/Sturridge made us better?"  the answer is "No; it's the change of formation which has made us better".

Taking it further...

We've won our last four games very comfortably,

Indeed but to be fair if the question is; "Has the loss of Gerrard/Sturridge made us better?", then it's only really the last two games we need to look at [re: Stevie] given that those are the only two he didn't start.

To that end: the constant factors are that Stevie played in neither: Lucas, Allen and Henderson played in both. I agree that it's impossible to deny that Henderson has played far better, in the last two matches, than he has in his whole Liverpool career. So...

Coincidently, those were two matches in which Gerrard didn't play. Are the two linked?

Well (again) there must be a 'link'... if we know (or even assume) that; it is down to personnel. If we know (or even assume) that it's not down to personnel (but formation) then there is no link. Simples. 

The only position for Gerrard now is at CB. And I'll be happy with him there, instead of nervous, sloppy Skrtel. As for Sturridge he's a central player so Suarez will take Sterlings position when Daniel is back fit. He played there at Ajax so no problem for Luis to adapt when our only recognized centre forward is leading the line again. Two arguably best Liverpool players simply must start when fit. Up to Rodgers to get a team balance right.

cb, really, I know Brendan mentioned it but I'm really not sure about it at all

I have always considered Stevie a fantastic player, possibly one of the best to ever play for our club but at the same time our teams have been very dictated by him. What I mean by this is that if Stevie played well then the team played well and vice versa. On many many occasions the team has played much better as a team without him in it.
It's certainly true that Henderson has suddenly becoming a useful, dare I say very good, midfielder in Stevie's absence and there most certainly is a link there. Henderson seems to have foudn his confidence now, instead of just meekly passing the ball to Stevie all the time.
In my opinion, and I was saying this before as well, Stevie should be used as an impact sub from now on, he should not be a regular starter.
As for Sturridge he's our second striker so if we only play with one striker then he starts on the bench, if we play 2 strikers in a match then he partners Suarez, simples.

Think we need a bigger sample size of matches before this question could be answered properly but one thing is clear is that we are very adaptable. We've proved we can cope without certain big named players in recent months and this bodes well. Timing of these injuries will also play a huge part and the run of fixtures they miss which can distort our view on if we are better or not without these players.

For me what's more important is that Coutinho plays. He's so important to our system and style of play that i dont mind who else plays in midfield (from the options we have). Look at our 3 losses this season which were clearly our least effective performances. Southampton at home and Arsenal & Hull away. Countinho started none of these games and he even came off injured when we were 2-1 up at Swansea before we had a bad last 25mins there. Of course we did win games without him (Sunderland away, Palace at home), but of all the injuries and suspensions we've had to deal with, his absences seem to hit us hardest.

The only position for Gerrard now is at CB. And I'll be happy with him there, instead of nervous, sloppy Skrtel.

 

Where the hell did that come from?

Where the hell did that come from?

'Blueshite wumming 101: the manual'. The same manual this came from...

No chance unfortunately. Martinez is tactically on a different planet than Rodgers.
Now with quality players at his disposal, Roberto's Everton will crush us to death.

 

I think it's time to convert Gerrard to the deepest role in a 1-2 midfield, with Lucas as his back-up. The 2 should be Henderson and Allen for the time being, with Coutinho and Alberto to step in when needed. In January we need to get a DM/CM of top quality to displace one of the 3. Up front we should play a fluid front 3 consisting of 3 of Suarez, Sturridge (once available), Coutinho and Sterling, with Alberto, Aspas and Moses as options.

This once Gerrard is back. Sturridge will have to work his way back in there.

Think we need a bigger sample size of matches before this question could be answered properly but one thing is clear is that we are very adaptable.

This for me, it's only been two games, one exceptional and one decent. We certainly haven't struggled the way we expected we might but the true test comes in the next two games. Had we not made the breakthrough through Suarez's fantastic volley on Saturday I have a feeling we might have gone in at 0-0 as despite playing well we aren't really crafting anything clear cut. It was the sort of match where I think we would have found ourselves wishing Stevie was fit and available with his range of passing.

Although with that in mind, one thing I have noticed is that our passing game has completely shortened up since the Skipper got injured. It's been much more the tippee tappee football we were expecting to see when Brendan came in and more akin to the stuff we were playing in the first part of last season.

Where the hell did that come from?

From Rodgers in his recent interview.

And bubby, apart from the fact you're having very sad xmas digging old posts, Everton were clearly better prepared tactically, and could have destroy us in the second half. Thanks to some shrewd in-game changes by Martinez. He has done extremely well so far, in his first season at the new club, with far less resources than Rodgers.

From Rodgers in his recent interview.

And bubby, apart from the fact you're having very sad xmas digging old posts, Everton were clearly better prepared tactically, and could have destroy us in the second half. Thanks to some shrewd in-game changes by Martinez. He has done extremely well so far, in his first season at the new club, with far less resources than Rodgers.

No one is biting fella so maybe dangle your bait on another board

It would be the wrong message to the rest of the squad if Gerrard did not have to fight for a starting spot.
In a top 4 team, no player can be undroppable.
At this time, and based on the last 2 games, the midfield has performed admirably well with all 3 players stepping up to the plate.
Gerrard when he is fit will have to compete for a starting spot.
When fully fit, my opinion is that Gerrard will likely sit for high-tempo/away games where energetic pressing is needed. He will on the other hand play when we know we will control the game where his lethal passes will come handy.
Gerrard is >33 and although remains technically a maestro does not have the energy nor the legs to press up.
Gerrard is an Anfield legend and great; but BR will have to do what is best for the team. I am confident that we will whether Gerrard plays or not.
YNWA

It would be the wrong message to the rest of the squad if Gerrard did not have to fight for a starting spot.
In a top 4 team, no player can be undroppable.
At this time, and based on the last 2 games, the midfield has performed admirably well with all 3 players stepping up to the plate.
Gerrard when he is fit will have to compete for a starting spot.
When fully fit, my opinion is that Gerrard will likely sit for high-tempo/away games where energetic pressing is needed. He will on the other hand play when we know we will control the game where his lethal passes will come handy.
Gerrard is >33 and although remains technically a maestro does not have the energy nor the legs to press up.
Gerrard is an Anfield legend and great; but BR will have to do what is best for the team. I am confident that we will whether Gerrard plays or not.
YNWA

The team has to come first and Gerrard will have to fight just as much as anyone else. Let's see how we make out in the next two games before we come to any conclusions.

If both gerrard and sterling were back it might work with Sturridge up front and Lucas and Stevie deep. I personally would love to see Lucas given a go playing higher up to press and get forward. I think he could do this well. Stevie will come back in we can all be assured of that.

If both gerrard and sterling were back it might work with Sturridge up front and Lucas and Stevie deep. I personally would love to see Lucas given a go playing higher up to press and get forward. I think he could do this well. Stevie will come back in we can all be assured of that.

Gerrard and Sturridge I meant

They may be better players individually, but collectively, the mid field seems more mobile and has developed an aggressive steak which was previously missing. Possibly due to desperation of being singled out as letting us down in Gerrards absence.
As for Sturridge, we have performed better in the middle of the park because we have an extra man in there with Louis being the only out and out striker, even though he has had plenty of support, that seems to arrive in numbers now which makes a massive difference.
Don't mend it, etc etc

Missing Stevie's set pieces. For me he has to be back in the team for Lucas.

Missing Stevie's set pieces. For me he has to be back in the team for Lucas.

Agree mate.

Here here.

Think we need a bigger sample size of matches before this question could be answered properly but one thing is clear is that we are very adaptable. We've proved we can cope without certain big named players in recent months and this bodes well. Timing of these injuries will also play a huge part and the run of fixtures they miss which can distort our view on if we are better or not without these players.

For me what's more important is that Coutinho plays. He's so important to our system and style of play that i dont mind who else plays in midfield (from the options we have). Look at our 3 losses this season which were clearly our least effective performances. Southampton at home and Arsenal & Hull away. Countinho started none of these games and he even came off injured when we were 2-1 up at Swansea before we had a bad last 25mins there. Of course we did win games without him (Sunderland away, Palace at home), but of all the injuries and suspensions we've had to deal with, his absences seem to hit us hardest.

He has not performed like he did last season since his injury. Don't get me wrong i really think he has the talent to go on and be one of the best playmakers in the world, but he needs to get back to the great heights he set when he first came in a year ago. He also is still looking a bit lightweight and would love him to spend a bit more time in the gym - take a leaf out of Sterlings book; he looks like hes starting to bulk out since he's been back in the team and can handle the physicality of the premier league.

Here here.

Or hear hear?

Or hear hear?

heer heer