Players out on loan. Good or Bad?

Thought it would be good to have a thread dedicated to the players we have out on loan.  I know they all have their own player threads but we can use this thread to discuss not only their progress but also the merits of them being on loan as opposed to staying at the Club.

There's been quite a bit of discussion in other threads as to the point of loans especially when we are so short on numbers but I believe we'll be better for it long term and can understand, to a point, why we've done it. 

For obvious reasons the loan system is used differently depending on the age/experience of the player.  With the Academy lads it's used to give them experience at a higher level, regular playing time, to see if they're ready, to see if they're worth keeping and to see how they handle it.  They will be learning about tactics, responsibility, pressure and more importantly testing themselves against better opposition, without having the glare of sometimes unwelcome, media attention.  They already have the talent otherwise they wouldn't be with us, it's whether they have the mental capacity to transfer that skill into a professional environment.

As somebody who recognises good young talent Brendan realised very quickly that we had several young starlets at the Academy, what he wasn't happy about was that they weren't "game ready".  They hadn't been 'tested' at professional level so it was difficult to be able to rely on them to come in and perform. 

If we look at the younger but more experienced players, those players who've had a taste of 1st team action but didn't quite nail down a starting position.

Jack Robinson - Blackpool.  Jack's been doing really well at Blackpool, he's starting every game and has had a few mom performances.  He's been getting up and down the wing, something that he was criticised for not doing enough when given the chance in the 1st team.  They haven't been doing well lately and the manager's been sacked so this period will be another learning curve for him.  For me a good loan deal for both the player and Brendan.

Andre Wisdom - Derby.  Another one being first choice at his Club and although it's at rb rather than cb he's being praised for his attacking play as much as his defending.  He's also put in a few mom performances and is a fans favourite.  Since his arrival, Derby have gone from bottom half to pushing for a play off place.  For me another good move.

Suso - Almeria.  Suso was flying at Almeria before Xmas having the 2nd best attacking stats to Messi in La Liga with 5 assists and 2 goals.  He's had a bit of a dip recently but the team are doing well by their standards and hopefully he'll help them avoid relegation.  It's been a good move for him to showcase his skills away from the pressure cooker of the EPL but I wouldn't be surprised if he goes on loan again next season, probably to the Championship. 

Now you could argue that we could have done with all of the above at some stage this season but in reality all they would have done is make up the numbers.  It's rare for an inexperienced player, whose not getting regular playing time to be 'match' ready never mind 'game' ready.  Relying on them because we have nobody else won't give them confidence and put's extra pressure on them to perform, it's a lose/lose situation. 

Flanno for example, is the exception to this.  Mentally tough as old boots is Flanno, another Carra in the making.  Do the basics well with the rest made up from guts, determination and pride.

The other 3 older players haven't had a start with the first team so their level is slightly below the others.

Conor Coady - Sheffield United.  Didn't have a great start at his loan Club and he wasn't playing much.  His manager also got sacked but thankfully his new manager is playing him now.  He's playing more on the right of mf rather than centrally but is getting involved in attacks and scored early on last week.  His Club was rock bottom of the league but since the new manager came in they're now out of the relegation battle and still in the FA Cup (at the time of writing).  He's learning a lot about being a professional in the lower leagues, where he's earning more than some of his teammates.  Hopefully that'll drive him on to make the 1st team next season or get a better loan in the Championship.

Kriztian Adorjan - Groningen.  Not heard too much about how he's getting on but I believe he's impressed them, he's scored a couple and has some assists.  There was talk about them wanting to buy him after his loan.  This lad has the talent, he's beautiful to watch and I'd love to see him gracing Anfield in the future but I don't think the EPL suits his game.

Armin Hodzic - Zeljeznicar.  Come on hands up who'd forgotten about him??  This kid was so hyped as a teenager we gave him a 6 year contract when he was 16    He's 20 this year, was out injured for over 2 years then been out on loan since July 2012.  I've absolutely no idea about the Bosnian Leagues but he's been doing ok and scoring heavily, certainly last season think he scored 17.

Kris Peterson - Tranmere.  Kris was blighted by injuries when he first arrived at the Academy and seemed to have been surpassed by the likes of Sterling, Ibe, Dunn, Wilson and even McLaughlan.  He's recently gone to Tranmere and been resurgent, culminating in getting a new contract Thursday.  He admitted in an interview that he thought his Liverpool days were numbered back in November and never expected to be offered another contract but his loan deal has awakened quite a few Clubs from the Championship, to Dutch and Swedish ones all inquiring about his availability.  The lad has accepted a one year extension rather than the longer one he was offered by the Club.  That's a great attitude to have as he's not resting on his laurels and will work harder than ever to either come back to Melwood or secure a really good move away.

The loaning out of Brendans own players has caused confusion and anger on these boards.  Where I can see the point of them needing game time which they wouldn't have had without a loan I too don't understand why we bought Aspas and loaned Moses last summer or why we were trying to buy Salah when we have Assaidi and Borini.  Whether these players will develop into what we need like Hendo has, remains to be seen but they will have benefited whether we keep them or not.

Tiago Illori - Grenada.  Apparently the plan with Illori was to give him 6 months at Melwood then send him out on loan and that's exactly what's happened.  This kid was never bought for the here and now but was always too good for the u21's.  I'm sure this won't be his last loan as I think he needs to have some experience of English football too.

Ryan McLaughlan - Barnsley.  Ryan would have gone out earlier in the season if it hadn't been for injuries and the timing of his loan couldn't have come at a worse time with Glen being out for a while.  At least if we do need to use him he'll be better prepared than just throwing him in at the deep end.  He did well on his debut, wasn't flash, used his pace but did the basics very well. 

Lastly, those on loan with a view to selling.

Pepe Reina - Napoli.  Doubtful we'll see him in Liverpool Red again but for me it's not the right way to use the loan system.

Craig Roddan - Accrington Stanley (who the hell are they?  ).  Unfortunately for Craig he's a utility player who never made it out of the u21's and he's now more or less been told he can find his own Club.  He's recently had short loans at Carlisle, Yeovil and now Accrington.  Hopefully he'll have a decent career in the lower leagues.

Oops!!  Didn't expect this to be such a long thread when I started it but hopefully I've given a good insight into my views on how and why these loan deals are good for us and look forward to hearing some of your views on the subject.

Both

It's all good a player getting much playing time, but he'll also build up a better relationship with that club.

Will Suso ask himself whether he'll be playing regular football at Liverpool next season? Of course he'll ask himself that, as will his agent, as will his friends and family. Now he's getting decent playing time and is one of the best young talents in Spain. Sure, he could do better than Almeria but if a half decent Spanish team go in for him, it may be difficult in convincing him his future lies at Liverpool. Hat said, we are his parent club and we'll call the shots. I'd love him back at lfc

Some managers believe in the loan system, whereas others do not.

Coady about to start against Premiership opposition in Fulham now.

All in all, I'd prefer a competitive reserve league, which ain't going to happen, which kind of makes loans a necessary evil. I believe you can only loan a certain ammount if players in over a season, I'd put similar restrictions on how many you can loan out in a season.

Beats the hell out of me why we loan out at all, speaking in a footballing sense of course, as for the financial aspect it would benefit the accounts if the demands on the wages bill were kept to a minimum.

Will Suso ask himself whether he'll be playing regular football at Liverpool next season? Of course he'll ask himself that, as will his agent, as will his friends and family. Now he's getting decent playing time and is one of the best young talents in Spain. Sure, he could do better than Almeria but if a half decent Spanish team go in for him, it may be difficult in convincing him his future lies at Liverpool. Hat said, we are his parent club and we'll call the shots. I'd love him back at lfc

I think in Suso's case he definitely wants to come back.  He was back in the fold over Xmas as were all the loanees out at foreign Clubs.  He knows why he's on loan and what he needs to do for when he gets back properly.  I'd be more concerned about Tex who is slightly older and still to get a loan anywhere.

Coady about to start against Premiership opposition in Fulham now.

Seems to be doing ok mate although I've only been listening whilst cooking dinner.  Will watch the 2nd half though and come back to comment on him later.

All in all, I'd prefer a competitive reserve league, which ain't going to happen, which kind of makes loans a necessary evil. I believe you can only loan a certain ammount if players in over a season, I'd put similar restrictions on how many you can loan out in a season.

I agree about the league being more competitive Rodders but I don't think there should be any restrictions when helping the young lads to make the breakthrough.  So long as it ultimately helps the 1st team, we should be using every resource available.

Beats the hell out of me why we loan out at all, speaking in a footballing sense of course, as for the financial aspect it would benefit the accounts if the demands on the wages bill were kept to a minimum.

In an ideal world the wages shouldn't be a consideration Stuey and most of us would have preferred to have Pepe at Melwood keeping Migs on his toes but it wasn't to be.  Hopefully he'll be the last that's sent packing for financial reasons.

I agree about the league being more competitive Rodders but I don't think there should be any restrictions when helping the young lads to make the breakthrough.  So long as it ultimately helps the 1st team, we should be using every resource available.

The restrictions would be more to prevent teams hoarding players than holding them back.

The restrictions would be more to prevent teams hoarding players than holding them back.

Ah right got ya mate. 

Yeah it's ridiculous how the chavs have stock piled all the best young talent, then loaned them out.  I believe around 20 of their players are out on loan with a value of over £90m.  That does need looking at mate.

All the comments, but no-ones really commented on how they feel the loan is doing for Borini and Assaidi.

Beneficial? WIll they come back better players, will it make sense from both a footballing and financial aspect?

All the comments, but no-ones really commented on how they feel the loan is doing for Borini and Assaidi.

Beneficial? WIll they come back better players, will it make sense from both a footballing and financial aspect?

They should come back more confident players, having been given time to adjust to the league and settle in.  Whether they'll ever be good enough I doubt we'll know for sure even next season but we're giving them every possible chance.

hate the loan system.Dont like it that players are not allowed to play against their own teams.It allows the likes of Chelsea to keep buying far more players than they need.

In today's game it's important for our young lads to gain as much experience as they can ,

So loaning out our starlets will only benefit us in the long term, and more importantly helps develop them into established ready to go individuals,

Obviously the step up from say the championship or elsewhere is huge but at the very least they come back a lot wiser and more wary of their surroundings,

Much better than the routine of reserve team football where the opposition is limited and with it the experience of playing against top professionals,

As Debs fantastically points out not all loan spells are successful but all in all it's much better than in days gone by, I'm all for it tbh.

YNWA

Well Conor came through that game pretty well considering the Blades were down to 10 men from 50 odd minutes.  Real backs to the wall cup tie against PL opposition, being pushed further and further back he covered the back line well I thought.

That kind of experience can't be simulated on a training pitch.

The most important are the players who play in liverpool is to be loyal to the club and play for the team rather than individuals, motivated by a passion for promoting the Club and liverpool should forward to the present and future

When it comes to young guys looking to get first team experience, I am all for it as long as the player will get playing time. As for senior players not really. However it does seem like Borini is having a good year on loan but he is still young and developing. The only problem with loaning out first team players is losing depth. It is all about losing depth for development or vise versa.

I can't recall us benefiting massively from too many loan moves in the past tbh. I can understand why a number of our lads have gone on loan this season but I do have to question the moves when we could actually do with them being here given some of the injury problems and failed transfers this season.

If we start with Suso, the lad did more last season in limited opportunities than Aspas and Alberto have managed all season. You have to question why he is elsewhere at the expense of these two.

I look at Jack Robinson, solid young lad with a lot of pace who has struggled with injuries. And then I look at the buffoon currently holding down the left back spot.

And then I look at central midfield and see our lads going own like flies or getting knackered at the 70 minute mark and I have to wonder if young Coady Connor might well have had a role to play this season with is physical presence and tidy play.

Hopefully these loans will bear fruit next season but as we go into a really important period with just 15 fit first team players I think we would be better off if they were all here and available to play for LFC.

Well Conor came through that game pretty well considering the Blades were down to 10 men from 50 odd minutes.  Real backs to the wall cup tie against PL opposition, being pushed further and further back he covered the back line well I thought.

That kind of experience can't be simulated on a training pitch.

Yes Debs, I thought he acquitted himself well, especially given the circumstances.
He got mentioned a few times by the commentators, in a positive way, so that should do his confidence a World of good.

The loan system, minus some minor annoyances like not playing vs your parent club, is overall a good thing if you use it smartly. The problem is we suck at loaning players out and have a bad habit of loaning them to clubs where they're not needed (e.g., Pacheco's loan to Michu's Rayo Vallecano).

That said, this is probably the first season I can remember where the players we loaned out are actually getting good minutes, especially Suso. The system is the only real way in English football to get around that grey area of too good for the reserves but not good enough for the 18.

The loan system, minus some minor annoyances like not playing vs your parent club, is overall a good thing if you use it smartly. The problem is we suck at loaning players out and have a bad habit of loaning them to clubs where they're not needed (e.g., Pacheco's loan to Michu's Rayo Vallecano).

That said, this is probably the first season I can remember where the players we loaned out are actually getting good minutes, especially Suso. The system is the only real way in English football to get around that grey area of too good for the reserves but not good enough for the 18.

this

we are absolutely horrid at the loan system.

also i really dislike the fate that we have loaned players on our starting XI... imo lfc should be playing true lfc players ... i mean, take a gander at cissokho... why are we giving him game time a plenty when we have loaned out FBs, they cant be any worse and the game experience will go towards our own player

also... imo we have loan players on our starting XI is because BR knows he doesnt have the $$ to buy players... so he loans them and all he has to pay is the salary. 

hate the loan system.Dont like it that players are not allowed to play against their own teams.It allows the likes of Chelsea to keep buying far more players than they need.

Yeah. For younger players like Coady, it's invaluable playing experience. However, it can easily be abused by clubs like Chelsea, who have 23 players out on loan, several of whom can play against their opposition, but not Chelsea.

Great post Debs.

Got some knowledge in there.

I don't know what day it is sometimes ! 

I understand some of the negative comments about not previously doing well when loaning out our players but things have changed at the Academy since those days.

One of the reasons Rodolfo and MacParland were sacked was because they didn't believe in the loan system and one of Brendans first moves was to bring in Alex Inglewhite from Spurs who has a very good track record with it.  Since then we've seen a much more cohesive way of getting our youngsters out to Clubs prepared to give them regular playing time.

I'll start with the grade A decision of sending Pepe out on loan, whoever came up with that masterstroke needs to be castrated!! Should still be at the club and should still be our first choice.

Assaidi, probably done him good to go out on loan, he had a season with us where Rodgers would very rarely play him and in truth it leads you to highly question as to why we signed him if we aren't even going to play him. He's settled in at Stoke now though and is influencing games, certainly proving he knows how to find the net, against the top teams that is too!! Think him being able to adjust to the English came could lead him to become a good option to have when rotating the team or need that extra bit of flair off the bench, think he could certainly become of some good use to us but I get the feeling Rodgers still won't play him should he return to the club.

Borini, much like Assaidi, finding his feet well at Sunderland and although he struggled there at first he is really starting to come into his own, certainly becoming a lot more of a threat to the opposition. I don't think he would ever go on to become a top class player and certainly not good enough to compete with SAS but he'd provide better back up to the team than Aspas IMO. He showed towards the end of last season he can be effective coming off the bench, scored with one of his first touches in the 6-0 thrashing of Newcastle and hit the post in a following game I believe. Staying injury free is the key to Borini having any sort of future with us but whether we'd have benefited from not sending him out on loan this season I remain unsure.

Suso, done him the world of good and is having a real impact on La Liga, right up there at the top in terms of assists and is probably their most influential player. He done well for us last season when he played, I remember when we played the Mancs and he came on at half time, within a few minutes he either directly got the assist or was heavily involved in the build up to our goal. We may have benefited from not loaning him out this season but I think in the long term we will benefit a lot more by sending him out on loan for this season. He's growing into a very good player without the pressure on him that you could say Sterling has.

Illori, pointless signing thus far and why we are loaning him out to a foreign team after keeping him at Melwood for 6 months to adjust to English football is beyond me. Should have loaned him out to an English team, or better yet, actually given the lad a chance.

Other than these lads I haven't really looked out in too much detail at the others but given the fact they are youngster that appear to be nowhere near the first team set up it is certainly better for them if nothing else.

Loaning out Borini may prove to be a master stroke. Doing well, and looking like he could actually do a thing or two for us when he gets back. Either that or he'll have raised his transfer value which Ayre will immediately pocket and then tell us we have no money for transfers.