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      Is our playing style changing?

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      DaktionLFC
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      Is our playing style changing?
      Feb 03, 2014 07:12:14 am
      first off.. this is not a kneejerk reaction thread.  if you are still in the kneejerk mode, there is a thread for it already :D

      i just want to discuss our playstyle in the last few games. 

      we used to have a certain fluidity in our game.  breathtaking really... and one that really highlights suarez's and sturridge's ability.  however, would you guys also agree that we seem to have lost that fluidity in the past few games?  let me highlight some points.. if someone has time to compile all the opta stats that would be great.. i will just highlight a few specific games here

      - we used to register alot more shots per game. we had 12 against wba... 3 on target vs 18 and 7 on target last time we played wba

      - we also used to focus on possession.. we did have 50% with wba... but like 39% with everton.

      - we pass less.  last two games we were in the 300s... we used to hover around 400- 500 per game.. we had over 700 in that game vs fulham we won 4-0

      - the games from villa to now, our tactics are almost unrecognizable..   it is important to point out we did win 2 games bourne and everton but we also tied 2.. villa and west brom.  for the everton game, 3 of those goals were hoof ball goals.  it seems to me we are doing alot more hoofing the ball these days.  blast it down and hope the skills of our forwards can do something with it.   hendo while a workhorse and i really like this lad, has been utmost quiet now... its almost like we are half skipping the midfield as we move forward with the ball.  or we rely on our FB to take it up on the wing.

      - all this leads to my biggest point of all... because we do not move the ball upfield as well as we used to, our forwards are much deeper back on the field when they get the ball.  looking at opta stats, 1st wba game where we won 4-1 http://www.liverpoolfc.com/fixtures2013/first-team/liverpool-v-w-b-a-8108/opta-match-stats  and yesterdays game where we tied 1-1 http://www.liverpoolfc.com/fixtures2013/first-team/w-b-a-v-liverpool-8134/opta-match-stats  you can see SaS is a lot deeper... that is a substantial difference (because its the average position of the player on the field during the entire game)... our SaS strikeforce receives the ball much closer to the centre line as we struggle to cleanly break through wba's half.  actually if you look at it more in depth, pretty much our entire forward line ... all four of them are hovering the centre half line.  where as in the first wba game we are definitely much more forward aggressive.

      what this means is that SaS isnt getting the quality / quantity of balls to them.  suarez in particular lives off the quick one twos or the twist and turn moves.  he needs to get the ball in a much more forward position so after he executes a move, he is in position to shoot.  now, he has quite a bit of field to run before the has a good shot on net.

      my personal belief is the transition of Gerrard to DM and the loss of allen.  I did not rate allen that highly before but currently i truly believe he will / is our  best bet for the CM position in the squad we have.  we need distribution and control in the midfield badly.  we need a midfield that can control the ball in the middle third and move the ball accurately up to our forwards.  we can play hoof ball once in a while but we also need to be able to thread in a killer pass.  allen can def link up with cou to provide this distribution. 

      anyways, lets discuss this.  do you also notice our game style changing? 
      « Last Edit: Feb 03, 2014 11:26:45 am by JD, Reason: Title amended to English »
      Redtrader
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      Re: Are our playstyle changing?
      Reply #1: Feb 03, 2014 07:42:39 am
      It changed a while ago, second half of last season. Death by football became more direct, someone switched a light on somewhere and Brendan realised the players he has are more adept to this way of play or he recognised we weren't Barcelona.

      Possession stats can be misleading, territorial advantage, chances created and attacking threat are more important IMHO when trying to score, rather than passing around in your own half.   

      In regard to recent games I believe some teams have been more successful in pressing us up the field and in other games our forward line has cut through. Take the  Everton game, they had the possession and held their own in midfield but our forwards, when allowed, can be unstoppable. The midfield of our team is lacking a forceful player, a Gerrard of 5 years ago, and until we resolve that there will be times that teams can dominate us.
      « Last Edit: Feb 03, 2014 12:27:49 pm by Redtrader »
      CoutinhoRed
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #2: Feb 03, 2014 01:05:14 pm
      Yup, this tika-taka nonsense did not work with our set of players. It is also boring to watch, and not the way any team plays nowadays. You could say we're very much suited to a direct counter attacking style give the runs of Daniel and Raheem.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #3: Feb 03, 2014 02:23:10 pm
      try watching Bergers goal against Derby 20 passes and a screamer that was 14 years ago.Derby County vs Liverpool 0-4
      waltonl4
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #4: Feb 03, 2014 02:27:02 pm
      the point is we have been scoring goals like this for over 50 years we don't need lessons in football from anyone.you can call it anything you want to but passing football is in the DNA of this club. Passing with a high tempo is what is missing at times and it becomes passing for passing sake which is what I thought we did against WBA.It the tempo of play that is just as important as the style.
      s@int
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #5: Feb 03, 2014 04:04:46 pm
      The biggest problem we have had this season imo has been transition. We have no one capable of moving the ball from defence to attack. Johnson who normally does it has been out of form (injured), Enrique again injured. Moses is perhaps the only one who has shown he can do it, but has been so poor he has hardly played, which leaves the long ball out of defense .... and I think Brendan saw Gerrard as better able to do that than Lucas (before his injury). I think this is the reason Brendan has been looking at attacking midfielders while we have all been screaming for a defensive midfielder. We need someone to help transition, someone who can take the ball and run 15-20 yards with it AND retain possession.

      Probably the best example of what I mean was McManaman, who would pick up the ball in is own half and take it forward, transforming defence into attack. While at the moment we spend so long passing the ball about between our midfield and our defenders that the opposition can press and force mistakes, or into desperate hoofs up field. 

      Without the extra midfielder we are struggling to get the ball out of defence when teams press us, meaning we hit too many long hopefull balls that come straight back.

      Maybe Stirling could take on the role, he tends to receive the ball well past the halfway line, but maybe he could drop a little deeper and aid with transition, as Flanagan for all his defensive strengths is never going to be capable of bringing the ball forward consistently.

      I am not too worried about the reduction in the number of passes per game as I think our focus is now more on getting the ball to our forwards quicker than we did before.

      Has our game changed ... yes, our focus has changed and we are playing much more through the middle than in the wide areas (mainly in my opinion through necessity rather than planning. )
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #6: Feb 03, 2014 07:00:07 pm
      Well our style of play against West Brom was look for the long ball over the top all game. Against Everton it was look for the counter attack. Not exactly tiki-taka football either of them games that's for sure.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #7: Feb 03, 2014 07:02:51 pm
      Well our style of play against West Brom was look for the long ball over the top all game. Against Everton it was look for the counter attack. Not exactly tiki-taka football either of them games that's for sure.

      I thought our tactics have been for a while "give it to Luis or Daniel".
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #8: Feb 03, 2014 07:08:58 pm
      If you watch the "Carra meets Rodgers" interview, Brendan says that he restructured the team to bring out the best of Luis' talents. I suspect the change in tactics where part of that.
      6stringer
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #9: Feb 03, 2014 07:40:57 pm
      Lets look at our remaining league fixtures for a start ;
      PR    Arsenal (H)          
      PR    Fulham (A)                
      PR    Swansea (H)          
      PR   Southampton (A)          
      PR   Sunderland (H)          
      PR   Man Utd (A)          
      PR   Cardiff (A)          
      PR   Tottenham (H)          
      PR   West Ham (A)          
      PR   Man City (H)          
      PR   Norwich (A)          
      PR   Chelsea (H)          
      PR   Crystal Palace (A)          
      PR   Newcastle (H)

      Unless you guys think otherwise but I would say about 4 teams out of that lot could and probably will play similar tactics to West Brom and bully their way to a result (Cardiff,West Ham,Norwich & Palace), the rest will try and win the game by playing football.The only other exception for me will be Chelsea with 3 games to go as Maureen could use his bully boys to grind a result out.
      This is only my opinion I might add but a lot of those teams will have had a good look at that West Brom game and sussed out that by strangling the supply to SaS will strangle us.
      Sterling looks like he's got the Anfield on Line MOTM.. what for?.. For running at them and taking them on..something, as Saint said,McManaman used to do all the time and I agree we are missing that extra midfielder to help make up the triangles.
      We should have Enrique and Agger back soon and possibly Lucas which will be a welcome boost going forward.
      I also agree with Walton4 in that we've been scoring goals like that for 50 years..Keegan Toshack , Dalglish Rush, Owen Heskey etc etc and I can remember games just as frustrating as the West Brom game even when those guys played up front..
      One things for sure is that when it does get through to SaS any defence in that list will fall victim..That is our only hope right now..
      We play Top of the League Arsenal at home this weekend...lets see shall we..
      6stringer
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #10: Feb 03, 2014 07:50:20 pm
      and do you know what makes me even madder? the 4 teams i picked out of that list will all be at home in front of their own fans..
      kevinho
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #11: Feb 03, 2014 10:35:57 pm
      Probably the best example of what I mean was McManaman, who would pick up the ball in is own half and take it forward, transforming defence into attack. While at the moment we spend so long passing the ball about between our midfield and our defenders that the opposition can press and force mistakes, or into desperate hoofs up field. 

      I think this is exactly why Rodgers wanted Moses to begin with. All of our competitors have a player who can do this very well.

      Chelsea: Hazard (best in the league at this)
      City: Toure
      Arsenal: Wilshere or Ozil
      Everton: Barkley

      These guys all can bring it out from that area in between the lines and transition between defense and attack so quickly. Coutinho is the closest thing we have to that type of player, but he looks for the pass more than beating a man.

      Konoplyanka and/or Salah were probably going to be our options for that type of player, which may be why we were looking at them in a window where we needed strengthening in other areas. Before it was bandied on how Brendan wanted goals from his midfield and wide players. Maybe he's decided that the team has enough goals up front already with two top-class strikers that we needed someone who could help get the ball forward with it at their feet, rather than a thump or through ball.

      srslfc
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #12: Feb 03, 2014 10:43:41 pm
      Our playing style changed a long time ago under Brendan.
      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #13: Feb 03, 2014 11:31:17 pm
      Our playing style changed a long time ago under Brendan.

      It did indeed, most notably with the arrivals of Sturridge and Coutinho, which saw us have a quicker build-up and be more direct. The irony of it all is one of the big criticisms of Brendan was he was too one-dimensional as a manager.
      GERNS
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #14: Feb 03, 2014 11:40:03 pm
      Has our playing style changed ?  Yes, in a week. Brilliant against the bitters, crap against brom !
      Del Boca Vista
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #15: Feb 04, 2014 07:41:27 am
      i guess if you take our best players out of the team we are going to play differently.

      lucas, enrique, agger, johnson all help us play so much. sterling has been great in the absence of glen on the right, but we miss enrique who is so much better than cissokho.
      hardcoresoldier
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #16: Feb 04, 2014 05:26:02 pm
      Personally i think our style has changed due to circumstance. Circumstances beyond our control may i add.

      I feel for Rodgers as he has been dropped right in the sh*t by NESV and that fuckwit Ian Ayre. I saw the interview with Carra and Brendan basically said as much without actually saying it.

      In an ideal world we'd have two top quality players for each position, or at least 2 players with similar attributes. Unfortunately for us we don't.

      We moved Reina on and brought in Mignolet when we really should have both here.

      When Johnson is injured we don't have another naturally attack minded full back to replace him. Both Toure and Flanno have covered there this Season but they are nothing like Johnson. Instantly Rodgers has a problem and has to adapt our style to balance the side to suit.

      It's the same with Enrique. Cissokho has been utter sh*te this Season and only God knows how the F**k this lad was given a pro contract. I would have played Kelly there myself but again, Rodgers has his reasons.

      The central defence has been hit by so many injury problems that we are yet to see a definitive pairing settle in. The loss of Agger greatly effects the way we play. While Sakho and Skrtel have played well they are no Agger.

      Lucas gets injured and there is no direct replacement for him, he experimented with Allen and that clearly didn't work, hence dropping Gerrard back. This in itself creates another problem as we know there is definitely not a player here who we can honestly say is as good as or near as good as Gerrard.

      Coutinho has been a very important player for us this Season but he is no Gerrard just yet, i think he'll come into his own once he has his first full Season under his belt. Other than Gerrard and Coutinho we have no other viable option to play just off the strikers, Luis Alberto could be a good shout but Rodgers seems reluctant to play him. Allen has tried and failed in this position also.

      When Sturridge and Suarez are fit then Brendan has no option but to play them both and again this invites its own problems as we have to adapt our style to suit them. Sturridge will naturally come into the middle and that affects the balance of the team. Please note that when Sturridge or Suarez are out then Brendan refuses to play Aspas in that position and instead changes the style to suit others.

      Take Sterling out of the side and again we have no natural replacement for him. Moses has been shocking and looks like he doesn't give a F**k.

      The reason i feel for Rodgers is that he can only F**k with the cock he's got. To plug one hole he has to unplug another hole. This Squad is not strong enough to absorb a few injuries, by balancing one area of the team he causes an imbalance in another area and it is all down to a lack of personnel.

      In an ideal world Rodgers would have 2 like for like players in each position, then he would not have to keep constantly changing our style and formation. It is understandable that now and again our style and formation must change to counter our opponents but when we are constantly having to adapt due to a lack of personnel then that is not acceptable for a massive Club like ours.

      He has done an excellent job this Season given the circumstances, a severe lack of funding and backing from NESV must be hard for him to take, especially when he sees how close we are to making a push.

      Like i said, i don't think our playing style is changing, as walton said, we've always been a passing team. The inventors of pass and move.

      What is changing is how this Club is being run, a lack of investment in sufficient playing staff which in turn dictates how we can play.

      We are still three top players away from being a top top side, we are 7-8 top players away from having a top Squad.
      Scottbot
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #17: Feb 04, 2014 06:28:51 pm
      Personally i think our style has changed due to circumstance. Circumstances beyond our control may i add.

      I feel for Rodgers as he has been dropped right in the sh*t by NESV and that fuckwit Ian Ayre. I saw the interview with Carra and Brendan basically said as much without actually saying it.

      In an ideal world we'd have two top quality players for each position, or at least 2 players with similar attributes. Unfortunately for us we don't.

      We moved Reina on and brought in Mignolet when we really should have both here.

      When Johnson is injured we don't have another naturally attack minded full back to replace him. Both Toure and Flanno have covered there this Season but they are nothing like Johnson. Instantly Rodgers has a problem and has to adapt our style to balance the side to suit.

      It's the same with Enrique. Cissokho has been utter sh*te this Season and only God knows how the f**k this lad was given a pro contract. I would have played Kelly there myself but again, Rodgers has his reasons.

      The central defence has been hit by so many injury problems that we are yet to see a definitive pairing settle in. The loss of Agger greatly effects the way we play. While Sakho and Skrtel have played well they are no Agger.

      Lucas gets injured and there is no direct replacement for him, he experimented with Allen and that clearly didn't work, hence dropping Gerrard back. This in itself creates another problem as we know there is definitely not a player here who we can honestly say is as good as or near as good as Gerrard.

      Coutinho has been a very important player for us this Season but he is no Gerrard just yet, i think he'll come into his own once he has his first full Season under his belt. Other than Gerrard and Coutinho we have no other viable option to play just off the strikers, Luis Alberto could be a good shout but Rodgers seems reluctant to play him. Allen has tried and failed in this position also.

      When Sturridge and Suarez are fit then Brendan has no option but to play them both and again this invites its own problems as we have to adapt our style to suit them. Sturridge will naturally come into the middle and that affects the balance of the team. Please note that when Sturridge or Suarez are out then Brendan refuses to play Aspas in that position and instead changes the style to suit others.

      Take Sterling out of the side and again we have no natural replacement for him. Moses has been shocking and looks like he doesn't give a f**k.

      The reason i feel for Rodgers is that he can only f**k with the cock he's got. To plug one hole he has to unplug another hole. This Squad is not strong enough to absorb a few injuries, by balancing one area of the team he causes an imbalance in another area and it is all down to a lack of personnel.

      In an ideal world Rodgers would have 2 like for like players in each position, then he would not have to keep constantly changing our style and formation. It is understandable that now and again our style and formation must change to counter our opponents but when we are constantly having to adapt due to a lack of personnel then that is not acceptable for a massive Club like ours.

      He has done an excellent job this Season given the circumstances, a severe lack of funding and backing from NESV must be hard for him to take, especially when he sees how close we are to making a push.

      Like i said, i don't think our playing style is changing, as walton said, we've always been a passing team. The inventors of pass and move.

      What is changing is how this Club is being run, a lack of investment in sufficient playing staff which in turn dictates how we can play.

      We are still three top players away from being a top top side, we are 7-8 top players away from having a top Squad.


      Really insightful post mate. You've hot a good few nails on the head there. It has been a juggling act for Brendan and with the exception of the Saints and Villa games he has for the most part got it right. We are deffo. In terms of changes to our playing style we certainly have had to adjust in the absence of Jonno and Enrique because (as you say) we have no one comparable on the bench. Instead of full backs who over lap we now have full backs who might support the wide men but rarely get past them. Also we've abandoned playing inverted wingers with Sterling on the right and in the last couple of games Sturridge on the left, again this may in part be down to the lack of attacking fullbacks.
      manwithnoname
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #18: Feb 10, 2014 03:10:23 pm
      We've moved on from Rodgers's once-favoured tika-taka "death by football" bollocks, and Thank God.

      I'm sure that circumstance has probably gone some way towards dictating this change, in that he recognises that players like Sterling, Henderson, Sturridge and co are better suited to a more explosive, counter-attacking style of play, but hopefully he also realises that Barca's "tika-taka" style is all when and good. As long as you're Barcelona. With the largest wage bill in world football and years of academy-trained players. And in any case, he probably saw them get crushed 9-0 by Bayern Munich, in a marvellous display of explosive, direct football.
      bigmick
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #19: Feb 10, 2014 04:18:29 pm
      The short answer to the question is yes. That doesn't mean ball retention and dominance of the game is a bad idea, it's simply a case of the manager best utilising the talent which is available to him.
      Son Of A Gun
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #20: Feb 10, 2014 04:46:21 pm
      It's obvious its more direct (not in terms of long ball, but less dilly dallying). I'm no tactical genius, but I suspect someone like Henderson is being moulded as a player to bring the ball forward no?

      It's closer to JĂźrgen Klopp than Guardiola at the moment I think.

      When Brendan gets the players he wants in, I think we will see a variation betweent tiki taka and the Klopp style (I think it's called 'gegen pressing').

      Such flexibility can be beneficial to us. Tiki taka does conserve energy, and in a fast paced Premier League, that could come in handy. So we may see phases of a Liverpool match which are all out blitzkrieg, and then phases of tiki taka. Swansea used to go through many phases of the game where they just kept the ball and did nothing with it. It can be used to good effect, but only if the team has phases like the first 20 minutes against Arsenal.
      Son Of A Gun
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #21: Feb 10, 2014 04:52:15 pm
      We've moved on from Rodgers's once-favoured tika-taka "death by football" bollocks, and Thank God.

      I'm sure that circumstance has probably gone some way towards dictating this change, in that he recognises that players like Sterling, Henderson, Sturridge and co are better suited to a more explosive, counter-attacking style of play, but hopefully he also realises that Barca's "tika-taka" style is all when and good. As long as you're Barcelona. With the largest wage bill in world football and years of academy-trained players. And in any case, he probably saw them get crushed 9-0 by Bayern Munich, in a marvellous display of explosive, direct football.

      Interesting - Bayern Munich copied Dortmund's style last year. Henyckes took the Dortmund model and moulded it into his side. There is an article from the Times where Brendan mentions this Bayern - Barca match from last year.

      Rodgers obviously looks at all the best sides in Europe and models his team on that. It's not just Barcelona - this is very important as it shows the versatility of the man.
      manwithnoname
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #22: Feb 10, 2014 04:59:13 pm
      Interesting - Bayern Munich copied Dortmund's style last year. Henyckes took the Dortmund model and moulded it into his side. There is an article from the Times where Brendan mentions this Bayern - Barca match from last year.

      Rodgers obviously looks at all the best sides in Europe and models his team on that. It's not just Barcelona - this is very important as it shows the versatility of the man.

      Well, whatever, at the moment he is doing a good job in creating a system and tactics that seem to suit the players he has. And clever, pacy players who work hard and have good technique are always going to make life easier for a manager.

      As for Barca - Bayern, I laughed my tits off watching that. So enjoyable seeing those tippy-tappy divs getting absolutely mullered. I've never really liked Barca, largely because everyone seemed to idolise their "mas que un club" bollocks, and I hated their tedious tika-taka-F***ing-tarka-the-otter football, while everyone else around me seemed to think it was the future, so watching them pass the ball around aimlessly and bemusedly while 9-0 down on aggregate was hilarious.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #23: Feb 10, 2014 05:13:06 pm
      I don't know, at times versus Arsenal, we played a fair amount of Tika-Taka, passing it around with little regard to making progress, unless an option appeared.  That kind of thing zaps opponents energy, especially couples with the score line.
      manwithnoname
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #24: Feb 10, 2014 05:14:51 pm
      I don't know, at times versus Arsenal, we played a fair amount of Tika-Taka, passing it around with little regard to making progress, unless an option appeared.  That kind of thing zaps opponents energy, especially couples with the score line.

      Probably as much to do with our energy being zapped, because the intensity with which we play our best football is unsustainable for 90 minutes. Good while it lasts, though!
      HScRed1
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #25: Feb 10, 2014 05:28:30 pm
      Nothing wrong with Tiki Taka, there is many facets to a game and knowing when is the right time to attack, take the pace out of the game, sit deep etc all comes down to game management and this is what separates the average managers from the good ones. I think Brendan wants his team to be able to adapt what ever type of football is needed to beat the opposition. In this respect he is heading to be a great manager in time.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #26: Feb 10, 2014 05:50:24 pm
      If you read the article that Deb posted in the BR thread you will see that Brendan has basically scraped his thought pattern of "death by football' to being an attacking/counter-attacking squad that can be most dangerous when it does NOT have the ball.
      s@int
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      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #27: Feb 10, 2014 06:16:45 pm
      The short answer to the question is yes. That doesn't mean ball retention and dominance of the game is a bad idea, it's simply a case of the manager best utilising the talent which is available to him.

      I agree mate, with players like Sturridge and Sterling it would be a waste of their speed and Coutinho's ability to find them with a defense splitting ball if we built slowly from the back all the time. (Suarez is that good he could play any style imo)

      With Johnson, Enrique and Agger out I think we would struggle to play "death by football" from the back anyway, "death by lightning strike" works better even if the names not quite as catchy :)
      bigmick
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 10,078 posts | 2767 
      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #28: Feb 10, 2014 06:56:36 pm
      I agree mate, with players like Sturridge and Sterling it would be a waste of their speed and Coutinho's ability to find them with a defense splitting ball if we built slowly from the back all the time. (Suarez is that good he could play any style imo)

      With Johnson, Enrique and Agger out I think we would struggle to play "death by football" from the back anyway, "death by lightning strike" works better even if the names not quite as catchy :)

       ;D Death by lightning strike, not catchy enough and doesn't happen often enough for my taste mate. It's an interesting one, but I think that in sport if you follow the maxim "do what the opposition would least like you to do" you don't go far wrong. With the pace and power of Sturridge and Sterling in particular, I think if I were playing against them I'd much rather surrender ground and get organised while Liverpool keep possession than I would have to deal with incisive through balls quickly delivered. Equally, if Coutinho plays as a midfielder I'd really like to get tight to him but that's hard, as doing so would either leave a gap between our midfield and forwards if we sit deep to counter their pace, or would lead to us defending too high.

       Then you get to Gerrard (or don't as the case may be). Naturally you want to sit on him to lessen the impact he can have, but given his passing range it's nowhere near so simple as it sounds. Press your midfield higher up to close him off and you open up acres of space in front of your defenders where we can drop it into Suarez so he can turn. Just about the only way you can stop Suarez is if you do a Chelsea style double screen on him and make it impossible for him to get the ball, push that screen up in order to get to Gerrard and Suarez will destroy you. Then of course you can't push the whole team up, because as already stated the ball can be dropped in behind where Sturridge and Sterling will burn you off for pace. 

      So it's a tricky one for the opposition the way we are playing right now, and there is enough variety in our attacking play to really ask questions of people. The key isn't that we're dropping deeper as I've read elsewhere, it's that now we also have the weapon of a Gerrard longer pass it's much harder for the opposition to squeeze us up. We'll see a different approach from us on Wednesday, as I fully expect Fulham to let Gerrard have the ball as much as he wants. I'd be surprised if they play anything other than a 4-5-1, and the 5 will barely get over the half way line. It'll ask completely different questions of us and require a lot of patience to break them down, perhaps a bit more "death by football" than we have shown previously.

      On a side note, I hope we don't resort to just lumping it into the box in desperation. It was nice to see the much talked about (in these parts) Dan Burn playing so well at centre half against the Mancs. He'll win everything in the air as he's six feet seven, but on the ground we might be able to get somewhere. I was told a couple of years back though that they reckon this lad will be a far better player than Smalling, and it's nice when someone is proven not to be talking total bollocks. Might happen to me one day too :lmao:
      GERNS
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      • 12,388 posts | 1543 
      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #29: Feb 10, 2014 08:54:13 pm
      Death by lightning strike, not catchy enough and doesn't happen often enough for my taste mate. It's an interesting one, but I think that in sport if you follow the maxim "do what the opposition would least like you to do" you don't go far wrong. With the pace and power of Sturridge and Sterling in particular, I think if I were playing against them I'd much rather surrender ground and get organised while Liverpool keep possession than I would have to deal with incisive through balls quickly delivered. Equally, if Coutinho plays as a midfielder I'd really like to get tight to him but that's hard, as doing so would either leave a gap between our midfield and forwards if we sit deep to counter their pace, or would lead to us defending too high.

       Then you get to Gerrard (or don't as the case may be). Naturally you want to sit on him to lessen the impact he can have, but given his passing range it's nowhere near so simple as it sounds. Press your midfield higher up to close him off and you open up acres of space in front of your defenders where we can drop it into Suarez so he can turn. Just about the only way you can stop Suarez is if you do a Chelsea style double screen on him and make it impossible for him to get the ball, push that screen up in order to get to Gerrard and Suarez will destroy you. Then of course you can't push the whole team up, because as already stated the ball can be dropped in behind where Sturridge and Sterling will burn you off for pace. 

      So it's a tricky one for the opposition the way we are playing right now, and there is enough variety in our attacking play to really ask questions of people. The key isn't that we're dropping deeper as I've read elsewhere, it's that now we also have the weapon of a Gerrard longer pass it's much harder for the opposition to squeeze us up. We'll see a different approach from us on Wednesday, as I fully expect Fulham to let Gerrard have the ball as much as he wants. I'd be surprised if they play anything other than a 4-5-1, and the 5 will barely get over the half way line. It'll ask completely different questions of us and require a lot of patience to break them down, perhaps a bit more "death by football" than we have shown previously.

      On a side note, I hope we don't resort to just lumping it into the box in desperation. It was nice to see the much talked about (in these parts) Dan Burn playing so well at centre half against the Mancs. He'll win everything in the air as he's six feet seven, but on the ground we might be able to get somewhere. I was told a couple of years back though that they reckon this lad will be a far better player than Smalling, and it's nice when someone is proven not to be talking total bollocks. Might happen to me one day too .
      Lots of that makes good sense bigmick, and it suggests that if we get our game plan right, the opposition will need to sit back, load up their midfield, and try to catch us on the break with longer balls over the top.
      I was only saying to a mate today, I think the chavs game will be our hardest, as i expect maureen to try just that. He will acclaim himself a master tactician if he succeeds, yet when west ham done that against the chavs, he said they played 18th century football or something like that. Total w**ker, and I trust Louis, Studge and Stirling to rip him and his plastic tw*ts a new one.
      As for our change in play. Brendans just got us playing to our strengths. I would imagine if we had more skill full defenders, and less pace up front, we would be going more for the tika taka style. Common sense really.
      Reslivo
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 14,490 posts | 521 
      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #30: Feb 10, 2014 08:57:09 pm
      And in any case, he probably saw them get crushed 9-0 by Bayern Munich, in a marvellous display of explosive, direct football.

      Which very much seems to be the approach we're taking with regards to playing-style recently.

      And I much, much prefer that over tiki-taka.
      AZPatriot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      • 9,944 posts | 1759 
      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #31: Feb 10, 2014 09:28:35 pm
      We've moved on from Rodgers's once-favoured tika-taka "death by football" bollocks, and Thank God.

      I'm sure that circumstance has probably gone some way towards dictating this change, in that he recognises that players like Sterling, Henderson, Sturridge and co are better suited to a more explosive, counter-attacking style of play, but hopefully he also realises that Barca's "tika-taka" style is all when and good. As long as you're Barcelona. With the largest wage bill in world football and years of academy-trained players. And in any case, he probably saw them get crushed 9-0 by Bayern Munich, in a marvellous display of explosive, direct football.


      Your an amazing fella with great thought provoking insights that you come up with, or maybe you should just quote Tony Barrett instead of just copying what you read in the paper.



      How Brendan Rodgers has turned Liverpool’s league fortunes around by Tony Barrett

      Depending on your point of view, Liverpool may or may not be title contenders. What isn’t in doubt though is that they are one of the Barclays Premier League’s most improved teams as evidenced by them being 14 points better off this season than they were at the same stage of the previous one. Another eye-catching statistic is that they have scored more goals at this stage of the season than they have in any other in their illustrious history.

      Here, Tony Barrett examines the methods that have allowed Brendan Rodgers to turn Liverpool into a team that could yet challenge for the Barclays Premier League title even if the manager himself continues to play down their chances.

      Relaxing his commitment to ‘death by football’

      That may seem strange after Liverpool’s recent demolition jobs on Arsenal and Everton, but when Rodgers talked of inflicting “death by football” his vision was for it to be caused by “relentless possession.” Everton and Arsenal were both on the receiving end of heavy defeats but they also had more of the ball. They were not passed into submission, they were brutally ripped apart by counter attacking football built on the pace, movement and ruthlessness of Luis Suarez, Raheem Sterling and Daniel Sturridge, an attacking trident that Rodgers believes is at least the equal of any other in the Premier League.

      Three of the nine goals Liverpool have scored in their last two home fixtures have come from the ball being won and released early. Defence is being turned into attack in the blink of an eye; there is no passing for the sake of it. Rodgers has recognised the strengths of the players and has developed a strategy to make them as effective as they possibly can be. His development as a manager is mirrored by the progress that has been made by his team. Liverpool can play possession football but they are better suited to allowing opponents to have the ball, pressing them remorselessly and then blitzing them.

      The change in emphasis from “death by football” to conquest by counter was reflected in the aftermath of the Merseyside derby when Rodgers evoked memories of a vintage piece of John Motson commentary about Liverpool being “at their most dangerous when they don’t have the ball.”

      Rodgers said: “I remember watching Bayern Munich against Barcelona last year and it was 9-0 on aggregate over the two legs. Barcelona dominated possession as you’d expect but everyone could see over the course of the two games the team with the most dangerous possession was Bayern.

      “When you look at the stats of the modern game I’m big on controlling domination of the ball, but against Everton we were able to dominate without the ball. Tactically, where we are compared to when I arrived 18months ago, it is very, very pleasing.”

      Acknowledging and learning from his own mistakes

      Increasingly, one of Rodgers’ greatest strengths is the ability to hold his hands up and admit that he has got it wrong. “I was too aggressive in my tactics,” he admitted after an over-ambitious approach against Aston Villa led to one of Liverpool’s poorest performances of the season and a home draw that cost them two points. Taking responsibility has improved his already solid standing within the dressing room with Liverpool’s players appreciative of their managers’ willingness to take the pressure off them and his refusal to try and shift the blame.

      It isn’t just about dressing room mechanics, though. Even more significant is Rodgers’ growing knack of finding solutions to problems he has caused. The formation that let him down against Villa allowed Liverpool to be over-run in midfield with Steven Gerrard and Jordan Henderson out-numbered and out-manoeuvred. There were no shortage of critics who warned that their partnership would not work, that there was no balance or blend and that there was too much emphasis on attack and not enough on defence.

      So what did Rodgers do? He added another attacker to the mix in the form of Philippe Coutinho. It was defiant and it was also a risk. Had the lightweight Brazilian got lost in the midfield maelstrom, as many had expected, and the team’s form suffered as a result the Liverpool manager would have been lambasted. The opposite has happened, though, with Coutinho’s transformation from brilliant but inconsistent wide attacker to becoming the creative heartbeat of Liverpool’s midfield is one of the great tactical innovations of this season.

      The wondrous through balls that created goals for Sturridge against Arsenal and Everton have been the most eye-catching evidence of Coutinho’s metamorphosis but equally crucial to the way Rodgers sets his team up has been the 21-year-old’s ceaseless pressing of opponents. The ball player is now also a ball winner, often high up the pitch, and that alone has allowed Rodgers to restore equilibrium to his midfield but it wouldn’t have been possible without his own willingness to admit mistakes and determination to correct them.

      Turning into Tony Pulis

      This is in no way a criticism. It is anything but. For decades, Liverpool have ranged from being at worst useless and at best functional when it comes to making the most of set pieces. In their 1980s heyday they made so little use of them that it became a standing joke that even led to a fanzine being named Another Wasted Corner. Under Rodgers, those days have become a thing of the past and Liverpool are now the most ruthless set piece team in the Premier League.

      So far this season, they have scored 23 goals from corners and free kicks (although it should be stressed that Luis Suarez’s shooting ability from dead ball situations has contributed to this remarkable figure). Prior to the Merseyside derby, Roberto Martinez had warned his players that there is no better team in the country at taking advantage of set pieces but to be forewarned was not to be forearmed in this case as Liverpool’s opening goal came when Gerrard headed home Suarez’s near post corner.

      Similar happened at the weekend when Arsenal were twice struck by the same lightning bolt in the opening eight minutes of the game with Martin Skrtel taking maximum advantage of Gerrard’s expert set-piece delivery. Liverpool’s opponents are becoming increasingly aware that if they don’t beat them on the ground, they could very well beat them in the air. It’s a volatile mix and one that has given Liverpool an added attacking dimension. It isn’t rocket science either; it just comes down to work on the training ground and an increased urgency to attack the ball.

      Helping Sterling reach his peak

      On December 2, Raheem Sterling made his second league start of the season – it could not have gone much worse. Bereft of confidence, lacking in match practice and burdened by expectation, the then 18-year-old was hauled off after 66 minutes following a listless display as Liverpool slumped to a 4-1 defeat away to Hull City. Sterling’s performance prompted his career to be prematurely and unfairly written off in some quarters and there was even a suggestion (albeit a wholly inaccurate one) that the winger would be sent out on loan because Rodgers believed he was not ready to make a positive impact on his team.

      Only two months on from that chastening experience at the KC Stadium, Sterling’s form is such that public opinion has now swung in favour of the teenager being included in England’s World Cup squad. The potential that always existed – which was recognised initially by Rafael Benitez and then developed by Kenny Dalglish – is now being unlocked by Rodgers and Sterling is suddenly seen as an indispensible part of Liverpool’s attack. Tactically flexible, surprisingly strong, direct, skilful and always willing, the Jamaican-born teenager is terrorising opposition defences on an increasingly regular basis as Arsenal discovered to their cost on Saturday.

      The talent was always there. Sterling was and is a special player, one who is capable of becoming a genuine star for club and country, but there was a spell when he appeared to be losing his way. Fault for that lay at his own feet but also at his clubs’. Sterling was responsible for his own loss of focus but working under four managers at Liverpool in only three years was hardly conducive to the development of a precociously talented young player who needed direction and consistent coaching. Rodgers has given Sterling the stability that he needed and he also given him the tough love that could be the making of him.

      “We are very focused on nurturing the young player,” Rodgers said in November. “Someone like Raheem had a great first six months, a mixed six months after that, which was natural, and now is coming back to showing a level. It was going to be very difficult to maintain the level that he set himself. For him now, football has to be very much at the forefront of his mind and if it is he is a talent. He showed over the first six months of last season that he has a future in the Premier League and at Liverpool.

      “I always say to players and in particular to young players that at Liverpool we work on what we call the ‘core’. We get the ‘commitment’. Once we have do that we will ‘organise’ a plan for them to get into the first team. When that happens it is their ‘responsibility’ and hopefully after that we can deliver ‘excellence’ in their performance level that keeps them there. If they don’t they will fall by the wayside.”

      Having been on the receiving end of that warning, Sterling has responded to it to such an extent that on Saturday Rodgers described him as “the best English winger in the league.” On current form, such praise is not misplaced.

      An absence of stubbornness

      Liverpool’s starting line-up against Arsenal was part accident, part design. There were players that Rodgers wants, ones that he could have done without and others that he had almost written off previously. At an earlier stage in his tenure, the Liverpool manager would have not have been averse to allowing Jordan Henderson, Martin Skrtel and Jonathan Flanagan to move on. When the idea of signing Daniel Sturridge was first raised he was unconvinced. Guilherme Siqueira of Granada was Rodgers’ favoured left back option when Liverpool signed Aly Cissokho on loan from Valencia last summer.

      In the case of each individual, though, Rodgers has been prepared to back down in the face of either their own form, the advice of others at the club or just his own instinct. The effect has been the creation of a meritocracy in which players at Liverpool know that if they train and play well the chances are that they will be in the side. The manager has demonstrated that he will not cut off his nose to spite his face and also that he is willing to change his mind.

      The recent emergence of Flanagan is the most obvious example with the full back now holding down a regular starting place having previously been deemed surplus to requirements earlier in the season. At that stage, Rodgers had been ready to allow Flanagan to go out on loan but a move failed to materialise. The Academy graduate buckled down in training, to such an extent that before the Goodison derby he stopped a session and told his players to give Flanagan an ovation, and he is now seen as one of the major success stories of Liverpool’s season. Credit for that goes to the player himself but it must also be shared with his manager who has created an environment in which improvement is possible as a result of his own lack of stubbornness.



      Credit to Debs and Rawk for this article
      « Last Edit: Feb 10, 2014 10:20:34 pm by AZPatriot »
      PaulKG
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      • 597 posts | 20 
      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #32: Feb 10, 2014 10:56:19 pm
      Yep, we definitely have, and for the better IMO. As highlighted above, the way Bayern just tore Barca a new a**hole last season was a spotlight that shown how the best teams are going to win. The possession game can still, and is very much used, mainly when having a 3 goal or more lead, just to take the zap out of any attack from the opposition, also against the weaker teams at home perhaps.

      But the explosive counter-attacking football just seems to do wonders for us against the better teams, look at our goals against Everton and Arsenal, pretty much all came from mistakes from the opposition, although that may sound a little harsh on us, our high intensity pressing game has caused them to make mistakes, and credit to B-Rod and the players for seeing this and executing it perfectly.

      Obviously there will be games where we struggle to make the opposition make mistakes (think City away) but the good thing about Rodgers that I find is that when he gets it wrong tactically, you know he will definitely get it right next time, Arsenal a perfect example, we were absolutely battered by their midfield dominance in the away game earlier this season, but obviously the staff do a lot of tactical studying and just try an get their messages across to the players, its great I think.
      manwithnoname
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
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      • 991 posts | 31 
      Re: Is our playing style changing?
      Reply #33: Feb 11, 2014 08:47:09 am

      Your an amazing fella with great thought provoking insights that you come up with, or maybe you should just quote Tony Barrett instead of just copying what you read in the paper.


      I've referenced that Bayern - Barca game several times on this website - Rodgers watching it was hardly unlikely, and Tony mentioning it in an article is coincidence.

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