Is our playing style changing?

first off.. this is not a kneejerk reaction thread.  if you are still in the kneejerk mode, there is a thread for it already

i just want to discuss our playstyle in the last few games. 

we used to have a certain fluidity in our game.  breathtaking really... and one that really highlights suarez's and sturridge's ability.  however, would you guys also agree that we seem to have lost that fluidity in the past few games?  let me highlight some points.. if someone has time to compile all the opta stats that would be great.. i will just highlight a few specific games here

- we used to register alot more shots per game. we had 12 against wba... 3 on target vs 18 and 7 on target last time we played wba

- we also used to focus on possession.. we did have 50% with wba... but like 39% with everton.

- we pass less.  last two games we were in the 300s... we used to hover around 400- 500 per game.. we had over 700 in that game vs fulham we won 4-0

- the games from villa to now, our tactics are almost unrecognizable..   it is important to point out we did win 2 games bourne and everton but we also tied 2.. villa and west brom.  for the everton game, 3 of those goals were hoof ball goals.  it seems to me we are doing alot more hoofing the ball these days.  blast it down and hope the skills of our forwards can do something with it.   hendo while a workhorse and i really like this lad, has been utmost quiet now... its almost like we are half skipping the midfield as we move forward with the ball.  or we rely on our FB to take it up on the wing.

- all this leads to my biggest point of all... because we do not move the ball upfield as well as we used to, our forwards are much deeper back on the field when they get the ball.  looking at opta stats, 1st wba game where we won 4-1 http://www.liverpoolfc.com/fixtures2013/first-team/liverpool-v-w-b-a-8108/opta-match-stats  and yesterdays game where we tied 1-1 http://www.liverpoolfc.com/fixtures2013/first-team/w-b-a-v-liverpool-8134/opta-match-stats  you can see SaS is a lot deeper... that is a substantial difference (because its the average position of the player on the field during the entire game)... our SaS strikeforce receives the ball much closer to the centre line as we struggle to cleanly break through wba's half.  actually if you look at it more in depth, pretty much our entire forward line ... all four of them are hovering the centre half line.  where as in the first wba game we are definitely much more forward aggressive.

what this means is that SaS isnt getting the quality / quantity of balls to them.  suarez in particular lives off the quick one twos or the twist and turn moves.  he needs to get the ball in a much more forward position so after he executes a move, he is in position to shoot.  now, he has quite a bit of field to run before the has a good shot on net.

my personal belief is the transition of Gerrard to DM and the loss of allen.  I did not rate allen that highly before but currently i truly believe he will / is our  best bet for the CM position in the squad we have.  we need distribution and control in the midfield badly.  we need a midfield that can control the ball in the middle third and move the ball accurately up to our forwards.  we can play hoof ball once in a while but we also need to be able to thread in a killer pass.  allen can def link up with cou to provide this distribution. 

anyways, lets discuss this.  do you also notice our game style changing? 

It changed a while ago, second half of last season. Death by football became more direct, someone switched a light on somewhere and Brendan realised the players he has are more adept to this way of play or he recognised we weren't Barcelona.

Possession stats can be misleading, territorial advantage, chances created and attacking threat are more important IMHO when trying to score, rather than passing around in your own half.   

In regard to recent games I believe some teams have been more successful in pressing us up the field and in other games our forward line has cut through. Take the  Everton game, they had the possession and held their own in midfield but our forwards, when allowed, can be unstoppable. The midfield of our team is lacking a forceful player, a Gerrard of 5 years ago, and until we resolve that there will be times that teams can dominate us.

Yup, this tika-taka nonsense did not work with our set of players. It is also boring to watch, and not the way any team plays nowadays. You could say we're very much suited to a direct counter attacking style give the runs of Daniel and Raheem.

try watching Bergers goal against Derby 20 passes and a screamer that was 14 years ago.Derby County vs Liverpool 0-4

the point is we have been scoring goals like this for over 50 years we don't need lessons in football from anyone.you can call it anything you want to but passing football is in the DNA of this club. Passing with a high tempo is what is missing at times and it becomes passing for passing sake which is what I thought we did against WBA.It the tempo of play that is just as important as the style.

The biggest problem we have had this season imo has been transition. We have no one capable of moving the ball from defence to attack. Johnson who normally does it has been out of form (injured), Enrique again injured. Moses is perhaps the only one who has shown he can do it, but has been so poor he has hardly played, which leaves the long ball out of defense .... and I think Brendan saw Gerrard as better able to do that than Lucas (before his injury). I think this is the reason Brendan has been looking at attacking midfielders while we have all been screaming for a defensive midfielder. We need someone to help transition, someone who can take the ball and run 15-20 yards with it AND retain possession.

Probably the best example of what I mean was McManaman, who would pick up the ball in is own half and take it forward, transforming defence into attack. While at the moment we spend so long passing the ball about between our midfield and our defenders that the opposition can press and force mistakes, or into desperate hoofs up field. 

Without the extra midfielder we are struggling to get the ball out of defence when teams press us, meaning we hit too many long hopefull balls that come straight back.

Maybe Stirling could take on the role, he tends to receive the ball well past the halfway line, but maybe he could drop a little deeper and aid with transition, as Flanagan for all his defensive strengths is never going to be capable of bringing the ball forward consistently.

I am not too worried about the reduction in the number of passes per game as I think our focus is now more on getting the ball to our forwards quicker than we did before.

Has our game changed ... yes, our focus has changed and we are playing much more through the middle than in the wide areas (mainly in my opinion through necessity rather than planning. )

Well our style of play against West Brom was look for the long ball over the top all game. Against Everton it was look for the counter attack. Not exactly tiki-taka football either of them games that's for sure.

Well our style of play against West Brom was look for the long ball over the top all game. Against Everton it was look for the counter attack. Not exactly tiki-taka football either of them games that's for sure.

I thought our tactics have been for a while "give it to Luis or Daniel".

If you watch the "Carra meets Rodgers" interview, Brendan says that he restructured the team to bring out the best of Luis' talents. I suspect the change in tactics where part of that.

Lets look at our remaining league fixtures for a start ;
PR    Arsenal (H)          
PR    Fulham (A)                
PR    Swansea (H)          
PR   Southampton (A)          
PR   Sunderland (H)          
PR   Man Utd (A)          
PR   Cardiff (A)          
PR   Tottenham (H)          
PR   West Ham (A)          
PR   Man City (H)          
PR   Norwich (A)          
PR   Chelsea (H)          
PR   Crystal Palace (A)          
PR   Newcastle (H)

Unless you guys think otherwise but I would say about 4 teams out of that lot could and probably will play similar tactics to West Brom and bully their way to a result (Cardiff,West Ham,Norwich & Palace), the rest will try and win the game by playing football.The only other exception for me will be Chelsea with 3 games to go as Maureen could use his bully boys to grind a result out.
This is only my opinion I might add but a lot of those teams will have had a good look at that West Brom game and sussed out that by strangling the supply to SaS will strangle us.
Sterling looks like he's got the Anfield on Line MOTM.. what for?.. For running at them and taking them on..something, as Saint said,McManaman used to do all the time and I agree we are missing that extra midfielder to help make up the triangles.
We should have Enrique and Agger back soon and possibly Lucas which will be a welcome boost going forward.
I also agree with Walton4 in that we've been scoring goals like that for 50 years..Keegan Toshack , Dalglish Rush, Owen Heskey etc etc and I can remember games just as frustrating as the West Brom game even when those guys played up front..
One things for sure is that when it does get through to SaS any defence in that list will fall victim..That is our only hope right now..
We play Top of the League Arsenal at home this weekend...lets see shall we..

and do you know what makes me even madder? the 4 teams i picked out of that list will all be at home in front of their own fans..

Probably the best example of what I mean was McManaman, who would pick up the ball in is own half and take it forward, transforming defence into attack. While at the moment we spend so long passing the ball about between our midfield and our defenders that the opposition can press and force mistakes, or into desperate hoofs up field. 

I think this is exactly why Rodgers wanted Moses to begin with. All of our competitors have a player who can do this very well.

Chelsea: Hazard (best in the league at this)
City: Toure
Arsenal: Wilshere or Ozil
Everton: Barkley

These guys all can bring it out from that area in between the lines and transition between defense and attack so quickly. Coutinho is the closest thing we have to that type of player, but he looks for the pass more than beating a man.

Konoplyanka and/or Salah were probably going to be our options for that type of player, which may be why we were looking at them in a window where we needed strengthening in other areas. Before it was bandied on how Brendan wanted goals from his midfield and wide players. Maybe he's decided that the team has enough goals up front already with two top-class strikers that we needed someone who could help get the ball forward with it at their feet, rather than a thump or through ball.

Our playing style changed a long time ago under Brendan.

Our playing style changed a long time ago under Brendan.

It did indeed, most notably with the arrivals of Sturridge and Coutinho, which saw us have a quicker build-up and be more direct. The irony of it all is one of the big criticisms of Brendan was he was too one-dimensional as a manager.

Has our playing style changed ?  Yes, in a week. Brilliant against the bitters, crap against brom !

i guess if you take our best players out of the team we are going to play differently.

lucas, enrique, agger, johnson all help us play so much. sterling has been great in the absence of glen on the right, but we miss enrique who is so much better than cissokho.

Personally i think our style has changed due to circumstance. Circumstances beyond our control may i add.

I feel for Rodgers as he has been dropped right in the sh*t by NESV and that fuckwit Ian Ayre. I saw the interview with Carra and Brendan basically said as much without actually saying it.

In an ideal world we'd have two top quality players for each position, or at least 2 players with similar attributes. Unfortunately for us we don't.

We moved Reina on and brought in Mignolet when we really should have both here.

When Johnson is injured we don't have another naturally attack minded full back to replace him. Both Toure and Flanno have covered there this Season but they are nothing like Johnson. Instantly Rodgers has a problem and has to adapt our style to balance the side to suit.

It's the same with Enrique. Cissokho has been utter sh*te this Season and only God knows how the F**k this lad was given a pro contract. I would have played Kelly there myself but again, Rodgers has his reasons.

The central defence has been hit by so many injury problems that we are yet to see a definitive pairing settle in. The loss of Agger greatly effects the way we play. While Sakho and Skrtel have played well they are no Agger.

Lucas gets injured and there is no direct replacement for him, he experimented with Allen and that clearly didn't work, hence dropping Gerrard back. This in itself creates another problem as we know there is definitely not a player here who we can honestly say is as good as or near as good as Gerrard.

Coutinho has been a very important player for us this Season but he is no Gerrard just yet, i think he'll come into his own once he has his first full Season under his belt. Other than Gerrard and Coutinho we have no other viable option to play just off the strikers, Luis Alberto could be a good shout but Rodgers seems reluctant to play him. Allen has tried and failed in this position also.

When Sturridge and Suarez are fit then Brendan has no option but to play them both and again this invites its own problems as we have to adapt our style to suit them. Sturridge will naturally come into the middle and that affects the balance of the team. Please note that when Sturridge or Suarez are out then Brendan refuses to play Aspas in that position and instead changes the style to suit others.

Take Sterling out of the side and again we have no natural replacement for him. Moses has been shocking and looks like he doesn't give a F**k.

The reason i feel for Rodgers is that he can only F**k with the cock he's got. To plug one hole he has to unplug another hole. This Squad is not strong enough to absorb a few injuries, by balancing one area of the team he causes an imbalance in another area and it is all down to a lack of personnel.

In an ideal world Rodgers would have 2 like for like players in each position, then he would not have to keep constantly changing our style and formation. It is understandable that now and again our style and formation must change to counter our opponents but when we are constantly having to adapt due to a lack of personnel then that is not acceptable for a massive Club like ours.

He has done an excellent job this Season given the circumstances, a severe lack of funding and backing from NESV must be hard for him to take, especially when he sees how close we are to making a push.

Like i said, i don't think our playing style is changing, as walton said, we've always been a passing team. The inventors of pass and move.

What is changing is how this Club is being run, a lack of investment in sufficient playing staff which in turn dictates how we can play.

We are still three top players away from being a top top side, we are 7-8 top players away from having a top Squad.

Personally i think our style has changed due to circumstance. Circumstances beyond our control may i add.

I feel for Rodgers as he has been dropped right in the sh*t by NESV and that fuckwit Ian Ayre. I saw the interview with Carra and Brendan basically said as much without actually saying it.

In an ideal world we'd have two top quality players for each position, or at least 2 players with similar attributes. Unfortunately for us we don't.

We moved Reina on and brought in Mignolet when we really should have both here.

When Johnson is injured we don't have another naturally attack minded full back to replace him. Both Toure and Flanno have covered there this Season but they are nothing like Johnson. Instantly Rodgers has a problem and has to adapt our style to balance the side to suit.

It's the same with Enrique. Cissokho has been utter sh*te this Season and only God knows how the f**k this lad was given a pro contract. I would have played Kelly there myself but again, Rodgers has his reasons.

The central defence has been hit by so many injury problems that we are yet to see a definitive pairing settle in. The loss of Agger greatly effects the way we play. While Sakho and Skrtel have played well they are no Agger.

Lucas gets injured and there is no direct replacement for him, he experimented with Allen and that clearly didn't work, hence dropping Gerrard back. This in itself creates another problem as we know there is definitely not a player here who we can honestly say is as good as or near as good as Gerrard.

Coutinho has been a very important player for us this Season but he is no Gerrard just yet, i think he'll come into his own once he has his first full Season under his belt. Other than Gerrard and Coutinho we have no other viable option to play just off the strikers, Luis Alberto could be a good shout but Rodgers seems reluctant to play him. Allen has tried and failed in this position also.

When Sturridge and Suarez are fit then Brendan has no option but to play them both and again this invites its own problems as we have to adapt our style to suit them. Sturridge will naturally come into the middle and that affects the balance of the team. Please note that when Sturridge or Suarez are out then Brendan refuses to play Aspas in that position and instead changes the style to suit others.

Take Sterling out of the side and again we have no natural replacement for him. Moses has been shocking and looks like he doesn't give a f**k.

The reason i feel for Rodgers is that he can only f**k with the cock he's got. To plug one hole he has to unplug another hole. This Squad is not strong enough to absorb a few injuries, by balancing one area of the team he causes an imbalance in another area and it is all down to a lack of personnel.

In an ideal world Rodgers would have 2 like for like players in each position, then he would not have to keep constantly changing our style and formation. It is understandable that now and again our style and formation must change to counter our opponents but when we are constantly having to adapt due to a lack of personnel then that is not acceptable for a massive Club like ours.

He has done an excellent job this Season given the circumstances, a severe lack of funding and backing from NESV must be hard for him to take, especially when he sees how close we are to making a push.

Like i said, i don't think our playing style is changing, as walton said, we've always been a passing team. The inventors of pass and move.

What is changing is how this Club is being run, a lack of investment in sufficient playing staff which in turn dictates how we can play.

We are still three top players away from being a top top side, we are 7-8 top players away from having a top Squad.

Really insightful post mate. You've hot a good few nails on the head there. It has been a juggling act for Brendan and with the exception of the Saints and Villa games he has for the most part got it right. We are deffo. In terms of changes to our playing style we certainly have had to adjust in the absence of Jonno and Enrique because (as you say) we have no one comparable on the bench. Instead of full backs who over lap we now have full backs who might support the wide men but rarely get past them. Also we've abandoned playing inverted wingers with Sterling on the right and in the last couple of games Sturridge on the left, again this may in part be down to the lack of attacking fullbacks.

We've moved on from Rodgers's once-favoured tika-taka "death by football" bollocks, and Thank God.

I'm sure that circumstance has probably gone some way towards dictating this change, in that he recognises that players like Sterling, Henderson, Sturridge and co are better suited to a more explosive, counter-attacking style of play, but hopefully he also realises that Barca's "tika-taka" style is all when and good. As long as you're Barcelona. With the largest wage bill in world football and years of academy-trained players. And in any case, he probably saw them get crushed 9-0 by Bayern Munich, in a marvellous display of explosive, direct football.

The short answer to the question is yes. That doesn't mean ball retention and dominance of the game is a bad idea, it's simply a case of the manager best utilising the talent which is available to him.

It's obvious its more direct (not in terms of long ball, but less dilly dallying). I'm no tactical genius, but I suspect someone like Henderson is being moulded as a player to bring the ball forward no?

It's closer to Jürgen Klopp than Guardiola at the moment I think.

When Brendan gets the players he wants in, I think we will see a variation betweent tiki taka and the Klopp style (I think it's called 'gegen pressing').

Such flexibility can be beneficial to us. Tiki taka does conserve energy, and in a fast paced Premier League, that could come in handy. So we may see phases of a Liverpool match which are all out blitzkrieg, and then phases of tiki taka. Swansea used to go through many phases of the game where they just kept the ball and did nothing with it. It can be used to good effect, but only if the team has phases like the first 20 minutes against Arsenal.

We've moved on from Rodgers's once-favoured tika-taka "death by football" bollocks, and Thank God.

I'm sure that circumstance has probably gone some way towards dictating this change, in that he recognises that players like Sterling, Henderson, Sturridge and co are better suited to a more explosive, counter-attacking style of play, but hopefully he also realises that Barca's "tika-taka" style is all when and good. As long as you're Barcelona. With the largest wage bill in world football and years of academy-trained players. And in any case, he probably saw them get crushed 9-0 by Bayern Munich, in a marvellous display of explosive, direct football.

Interesting - Bayern Munich copied Dortmund's style last year. Henyckes took the Dortmund model and moulded it into his side. There is an article from the Times where Brendan mentions this Bayern - Barca match from last year.

Rodgers obviously looks at all the best sides in Europe and models his team on that. It's not just Barcelona - this is very important as it shows the versatility of the man.

Interesting - Bayern Munich copied Dortmund's style last year. Henyckes took the Dortmund model and moulded it into his side. There is an article from the Times where Brendan mentions this Bayern - Barca match from last year.

Rodgers obviously looks at all the best sides in Europe and models his team on that. It's not just Barcelona - this is very important as it shows the versatility of the man.

Well, whatever, at the moment he is doing a good job in creating a system and tactics that seem to suit the players he has. And clever, pacy players who work hard and have good technique are always going to make life easier for a manager.

As for Barca - Bayern, I laughed my tits off watching that. So enjoyable seeing those tippy-tappy divs getting absolutely mullered. I've never really liked Barca, largely because everyone seemed to idolise their "mas que un club" bollocks, and I hated their tedious tika-taka-F***ing-tarka-the-otter football, while everyone else around me seemed to think it was the future, so watching them pass the ball around aimlessly and bemusedly while 9-0 down on aggregate was hilarious.