Central defenders

Don't think too many would argue that after the season we just had that our priority should be central defence. No matter how much we might like what we have the simple truth is none of them could organise the defence like Carra could and none of them are dominant in the air like Sami was.

Yet looking through the transfer thread here, or indeed anywhere you look, it seems all were linked with is Steven Caulker, Dejan Lovern and at a push Javier Mascherano as our targets for the position. All 3 have there strengths of which in my opinion Lovern is the one to go for.

But if were talking about stepping up from this season and going for the title while competing in the champions league are we setting the bar a bit low in our search to shore up the defence?

Don't think too many would argue that after the season we just had that our priority should be central defence. No matter how much we might like what we have the simple truth is none of them could organise the defence like Carra could and none of them are dominant in the air like Sami was.

Yet looking through the transfer thread here, or indeed anywhere you look, it seems all were linked with is Steven Caulker, Dejan Lovern and at a push Javier Mascherano as our targets for the position. All 3 have there strengths of which in my opinion Lovern is the one to go for.

But if were talking about stepping up from this season and going for the title while competing in the champions league are we setting the bar a bit low in our search to shore up the defence?

I understand what you're saying Brian but I think the fullback/wingback positions are more in need of improvement this summer.  The CB's might not be the very best but they're stronger than our options at FB at this time.

I understand what you're saying Brian but I think the fullback/wingback positions are more in need of improvement this summer.  The CB's might not be the very best but they're stronger than our options at FB at this time.

Not sure Debs. I cant recall once seeing any of them grab things by the scruff. None of them really take command of crosses coming in on top of them. Yes we need a full back maybe 2 and that might help with cutting out crosses but I think we need a Hyppia type to come in also

Not sure Debs. I cant recall once seeing any of them grab things by the scruff. None of them really take command of crosses coming in on top of them. Yes we need a full back maybe 2 and that might help with cutting out crosses but I think we need a Hyppia type to come in also

You're right about the fb's cutting out crosses but also the tracking back or being good enough not to lose the ball when attacking would also help the cb's.  We need better fb's mate on both sides, as good as Flanno's been this season.

Somehow I don't think we'll get one mate, it's not how Brendan sees his CB's.

You're right about the fb's cutting out crosses but also the tracking back or being good enough not to lose the ball when attacking would also help the cb's.  We need better fb's mate on both sides, as good as Flanno's been this season.

Somehow I don't think we'll get one mate, it's not how Brendan sees his CB's.

I agree, we're in dire need of better full backs before we look at CB's in my opinion. I think we'll be fine with Skrtel, Agger, Sakho, Kelly and Ilori, although, I wouldn't mind us replacing either Skrtel or Agger for a Ramos, Carra, Puyol type CB.

I wouldn't mind us replacing either Skrtel or Agger

I think both will stay this summer but one or both could go next year, depending on how well the others develop.

I personally think we have quality in the middle but the flanks need replacing. One or two starting fullbacks to come in. Probably only one though. Have the five central defenders battle it out for 2 positions. And maybe stick an extra DM next to Gerrard who's sole task is to protect the back 4 and cover for Gerrard. Would love Mascherano back.

-----------------Mig---------------
Flanagan----Skrtel--Sakho----Enrique/New LB

-------Mascherano----Gerrard-------

----Sterling------------------Coutinho---------
---------Suarez-------Sturridge------

You can do 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 or a variety of different formations. Gives us more cover as well as always having extra help at the back and maybe allowing Gerrard to push up a little more. The fullbacks can push up and we can still have 3 at the back with the two CB's and the other DM (Mascherano).

Skrtel, Sakho, Agger, Toure, Coates, Kelly, Wisdom, Ilori

I don't think we are lacking in numbers of 'senior' centre-backs.

Full backs are definitely a greater concern - especially the type of system we play which relies on them providing a lot of energy and thus more liable to rotation.

I think reddebs is absolutely right, full-backs should be our priority. Ideally, 2 full-backs to go straight in to the starting 11. May seem harsh on Flanno but I don't think he is quite ready yet, especially considering the importance of the position in Rodgers' system.

As for centre-backs , I think we only have to replace Agger (looks like he will wants to leave). Some may not agree but i'd like Skrtel and Sakho as our first choice pairing, playing as many games together as possible. With 2 new full-backs and maybe a DM ( Mascherano  ) I think we would see a massive improvement.

Each of our centre backs have attributes that many a team would beg to have in their's. The problem is though that there are some areas that our centre backs lack quality in and they need improving quickly if they're to remain at the club. I don't think Brendan will put up with another season like last in terms of our defensive record. If I was Brendan I would seriously do my best to persuade Hyypia and/or Carragher to come in and do some defensive coaching during the summer with Agger and Skrtel (Sakho will be at the World Cup).

I know that throughout the season I have questioned whether certain players should or should not be at the club but there was once a time when Agger and Skrtel were one of the best defensive partnerships in the league and I think they could be again with some thorough work done in pre-season. Skrtel could improve on his positioning (Palace's 3rd goal and some of his own goals where he aimlessly dangles a leg out) and his marking whilst I think Agger could work on his anticipation (where a striker will dribble next with the ball), his strength and his burst of pace for the first 3 yards (was evident that he was lacking this when we beat Cardiff 6-3 and Campbell jogged passed him with ease to score).

The only change I would make in our central defensive areas is probably bring in Ilori for Toure. I would then see how we go for the first few months of next season, if changes need to be made then make sure we have some sort of kitty for January to bring somebody in and possibly send Ilori out on loan again if needs be. At times our full backs haven't done our centre backs and favours so this has to be taken into account too before hauling everybody's arse out of the club who just happens to play at centre back.

Like a few have said above I'd be more keen on getting one or even two full backs before a centre back.

I think our senior four are good enough and don't see any drastic changes needed there.

The one major improvement we could make at CB is someone vocal who can organize the defence, especially with younger players like Kelly, Wisdom, Ilori hopefully making some appearances next season.

I think we will replace Coates and possibly even Agger this summer, and while there is no doubt that we also need a full back, I think we will bring in at least one experienced CB too.

I would say that we can't have Agger AND Skrtel as our first choice centre backs.
Sakho is still a youngster...only 23, and for a CB that is the time you need a solid and experience CB beside you in order to progress.
I like Coates but maybe not the right timing for us.
Illori looks a very classy player but needs a commanding partner which neither Agger or Skrtel are.
Sakho will get there but not yet.
Thats why i see BR looking for a established CB to come in and take our defense by the scruff of its neck.
Personally i can see Coates being sold, Kelly on loan, Skrtel being sold, Toure being sold and Illori being used with Agger as a fill in for a new CB.

I would say that we can't have Agger AND Skrtel as our first choice centre backs.
Sakho is still a youngster...only 23, and for a CB that is the time you need a solid and experience CB beside you in order to progress.
I like Coates but maybe not the right timing for us.
Illori looks a very classy player but needs a commanding partner which neither Agger or Skrtel are.
Sakho will get there but not yet.
Thats why i see BR looking for a established CB to come in and take our defense by the scruff of its neck.
Personally i can see Coates being sold, Kelly on loan, Skrtel being sold, Toure being sold and Illori being used with Agger as a fill in for a new CB.

Yes lets sell the lot of our CB's and trust an unproven Ilori. Even if we sign one we only have 3 CB's. What happens if two get injured?

Personally i can see Coates being sold, Kelly on loan, Skrtel being sold, Toure being sold and Illori being used with Agger as a fill in for a new CB.

I think that would be madness mate.

I think Dagger will be off and one will come in to replace him and it could very well be Caulker.

Although we conceded a lot of goals last season I don't think selling a low of CB's is necessarily the solution.

Full backs are definitely a greater concern - especially the type of system we play which relies on them providing a lot of energy and thus more liable to rotation.

Won't argue JD with that but I would add that even with better wing/full-backs we will still be susceptible to the counter.

I see our 'problems at the back' being a bit deeper than just signing another centre-half. What I saw was a defence who just weren't comfortable together at times and seemed not to trust each other as a unit [keeper, back four and holding/defensive mid'].

For me the problem starts with Simon - when we play a high line, leaving a lot of space behind and little cover in front of the centre halves - he just doesn't sweep or command that space [even vocally] in a manner which breeds confidence. And, if I'm being honest, Stevie too offers less cover than a dedicated defensive midfielder.

Lack of cover, on the flanks, in front and behind the centre-halves, has (in my opinion) often left our two centre halves with little option other than to drop off the ball/attacker or, when it's played over the top, to defend facing their own goal. Neither of which are conducive to good defending practice.

In my opinion is that there's less need to sign a new centre-half than maybe a sweeper-type, vocal, decisive 'keeper and a dedicated holding/defensive mid' to play alongside Stevie [which, of course, may sacrifice some of our attacking prowess].

Like many, I think Fullbacks is where we are wholly inadequate.
Given the systems reliance on them, we need the best fullbacks we can get,
and another high energy midfielder to cover them.

Like everyone else, FB is where we really need to strengthen. We could do with one on each side to be honest.

When it comes to CB, I think LCB is fairly settled. I'm pretty happy with Agger and Sakho as our options. This might be an unpopular opinion, but for as good as Skrtel was this season, I think we can improve on him.

Like everyone else, FB is where we really need to strengthen. We could do with one on each side to be honest.

When it comes to CB, I think LCB is fairly settled. I'm pretty happy with Agger and Sakho as our options. This might be an unpopular opinion, but for as good as Skrtel was this season, I think we can improve on him.

We have an improved option mate with Ilori.  He might be young but oh my can this lad play 

We have an improved option mate with Ilori.  He might be young but oh my can this lad play 

Oh I'm very high on Ilori, but is he ready right now to come in a be CL defender? Tough call.

Oh I'm very high on Ilori, but is he ready right now to come in a be CL defender? Tough call.

Well he handled Barcas defense pretty much single handedly when Granada beat them the other week Mossy and he'll have far better players around him than at Granada.  He was very vocal at organising everyone, something we lack badly despite all the experience and yes he would have caught Ba after Stevie's slip.

As an aside from the transfer talk Id love to see Ilori and Kelly play together for a few pre season games

Our problems aren't stemming from lack of ability in FB/WB or CB or even GK positions, they're stemming from a chronic lack of organisation in the back five. Not one of them, be it Goalkeeper or Defender is stepping up to organise the defence and as a result they're all at sixes and sevens with no one singing from the same hymn sheet. Simply looking for the next talented defender won't solve the underlying issues,  what we need is a leader in there, an organiser, someone who gets everyone on the same page and rather than look at their ability in defending, we need to be looking at a player's ability in leading. We need someone with good leadership and organisation skills more than anything right now. What position they play in across the back line is of secondary importance.

I agree we need some reinforcements on the flanks, but you can't tell me after that end to the season that we have Champions League quality in the middle. We need at least one new CB of some pedigree- not another project, but a ready-to-go leader in the centre (especially if Mignolet stays as no.1 - will need an organiser in front of him to marshall the troops). Mats Hummels appeals! 

Our problems aren't stemming from lack of ability in FB/WB or CB or even GK positions, they're stemming from a chronic lack of organisation in the back five. Not one of them, be it Goalkeeper or Defender is stepping up to organise the defence and as a result they're all at sixes and sevens with no one singing from the same hymn sheet.

Could that player already exist at the club but either hasn't had the confidence or game time to step up 5t?

What if Simon, for example, said 'right, from now on you listen to me... what I say goes'? Or maybe Agger [limited game time but good clean-sheet/goals conceded stats] could be the answer? What about Stevie in his new 'defensive'/holding role? Ready made leader right there... he is captain after all. Even Sakho; his price tag would suggest there's more about him than just defending - maybe he'll step out of the shadows next season but you are right there's more to a team defending than just the individual quality.

Take Cardiff for example: the 'spine' of their defensive unit is David Marshall [every f**ker and his brother praising his shot-stopping prowess, 'keeper of the year' they say]; Gary Medel [enough posts on here, alone, telling us how brilliant this lad is] and Steven Caulker [heavily linked with us and 'much sought after, they say]. Yet relegated Cardiff leaked goals like a F***ing sieve.

It's a conundrum alright but maybe that leader already exists and, allowed (or discovered) his voice, will shine next season.

It's a bit of an enigma  this one. You list our centre-halves and you think to yourself, 'we've got a bit of everything there'. We've got strength (both in the air and in the tackle), with got some guile and ability on the ball and there is also some pace and athleticism. There is even some leadership an vocal ability when you look at Toure and Agger BUT something seems to be a miss. Skrtel and the 23 Million quid Sakho appear to be the manager's first choice pairing but their record of ONE (yes ONE) clean sheet in 18 starts together suggests they should never play together.

Looking at them all individually I believe that Skrtel has had the best season (despite some errors) and the task for me would be to find a partner who fits. It doesn't appear to be Sakho, Agger doesn't seem to be a manager favourite and Toure will likely continue as a squad player. Ilori looks a prospect but he is young and raw and I suspect he will need a season or two to get to grips with the English game.

Some good points made about our keeper. Big Mignolet has pulled off saves that Reina didn't get anyway near in his last couple of years so that is a big plus, he also got better on crosses as the season progressed BUT he isn't the quickest off his line, he isn't particularly comfortable on the ball and I would agree that he isn't the organiser that we need back there. Although, if we had a Carra type of player at CB it wouldn't necessarily be an issue.

I agree that it does seem that Agger may be the one to go with a replacement coming in. That wouldn't be the worse thing in the world. I like Dagger, I think just about every LFC fan does but his injury record is a problem for me and we could still get a decent fee for the lad.

May be just me but I don't think we are that bad for centre halfs, to me the majority of our goals are due to poor full backs. Glen has been so poor this season positionally and Flanno will only improve playing on his correct side. A good quality left back and I think we will be ok.

Could that player already exist at the club but either hasn't had the confidence or game time to step up 5t?

What if Simon, for example, said 'right, from now on you listen to me... what I say goes'? Or maybe Agger [limited game time but good clean-sheet/goals conceded stats] could be the answer? What about Stevie in his new 'defensive'/holding role? Ready made leader right there... he is captain after all. Even Sakho; his price tag would suggest there's more about him than just defending - maybe he'll step out of the shadows next season but you are right there's more to a team defending than just the individual quality.

Take Cardiff for example: the 'spine' of their defensive unit is David Marshall [every f**ker and his brother praising his shot-stopping prowess, 'keeper of the year' they say]; Gary Medel [enough posts on here, alone, telling us how brilliant this lad is] and Steven Caulker [heavily linked with us and 'much sought after, they say]. Yet relegated Cardiff leaked goals like a f**king sieve.

It's a conundrum alright but maybe that leader already exists and, allowed (or discovered) his voice, will shine next season.

If they could, why haven't they so far? If challenging for a title whilst leaking goals doesn't warrant standing up as a leader, what does? So in answer to your question, no, I don't think that player is at the club any more. But like I said, leaders like Carragher or Terry are once in a generation players and very difficult to come by.

It's a bit of an enigma  this one. You list our centre-halves and you think to yourself, 'we've got a bit of everything there'. We've got strength (both in the air and in the tackle), with got some guile and ability on the ball and there is also some pace and athleticism. There is even some leadership an vocal ability when you look at Toure and Agger BUT something seems to be a miss. Skrtel and the 23 Million quid Sakho appear to be the manager's first choice pairing but their record of ONE (yes ONE) clean sheet in 18 starts together suggests they should never play together.

It might be a cliché but whilst we have the ingredients, only a chef can make a meal out of it. Basically what I'm saying is whilst we have talented defenders, we lack someone capable of pulling them together in to a cohesive unit.

Don't think we'd turn down improving at CB but I agree with the post above about our fullbacks. Especially Glen. He has been very poor defensively and I think it's caused our CBs some problems trying to cover his mistakes.

I think we missed Enrique as well, he wasn't world class but he was strong defensively and could bully people off the ball.

It isn't just about having a leader/organiser back there. It's about finding a two players who complement each other. Take Skrtel and Sakho they don't quite work because they are too similar. Both are big and strong, strong in the air, both are a little hot headed and quick to go to ground, both will throw themselves on the line or into dangerous situations to rescue their team. If you look at partnerships that do work the two players always complement eachother, take Terry and Carvallho at Chelsea. Terry is the leader, the more dominant in the air where as Carvallho was quicker and more mobile and a better ball player. We had a similar partnership with Hyppia and Carra for a number of years and the mancs had Vidic and Ferdinand who were the best in the business for a few season.

Skrtel and Agger should actually work given they are fairly similar in terms of attributes to those I've just mentioned but they don't because Agger can be picked on up top and Skrtel has always been prone to silly mistakes. And I guess the leadrership/organiser skills aren't quite there when you compare them to Carra/Terry or Ferdinand. the problem for these two is that they have spent so much time playing alongside (and getting bossed about by) Carra. You'd have hoped it might have rubbed off on one of them!

Show Kolo the door please. He might be experienced and vocal but from what I saw of him last season hes past his best by some way. Bit of a headless chicken too.

I think Agger could go this season. Would be a shame, he has been a great servant, but I do feel he is also past his best now and I hope he finds regular football elsewhere and enjoys the remainder of his career.

That leaves us with Sakho and Skrtel. Neither compliment each other particular well as previous posters mention.

So we need somebody with pace who is good on the ball. Mascherano? I think he will struggle playing in the prem as a centre half. We can't keep the ball as well as Barca and teams tends to lump it forward more in the prem than La Liga. Not everybodys cup of tea but id like Vermaelen here myself.

I think either Ilori or Kelly can fill in as fourth choice when required.

With PSG buying Luiz and spending heavily is Marquinhos available I wonder?

With PSG buying Luiz and spending heavily is Marquinhos available I wonder?

Off to Barca for 25mil odd.. PSG apparently 'trying' to break-even , if thats even possible

Godin from athleticio what a defender

Godin from athleticio what a defender

He was fantastic tonight and I had him as my MOTM just before Ramos scored.

Can't help but think that we missed a trick in signing Toby Alderweireld last year. Way cheaper than Sakho and more adaptable.

Can't help but think that we missed a trick in signing Toby Alderweireld last year. Way cheaper than Sakho and more adaptable.

I'm gald we didn't sign him.

I still think he is Dutch, even though I know he's Belgian, and still can say or spell his name properly.

I'm gald we didn't sign him.

I still think he is Dutch, even though I know he's Belgian, and still can say or spell his name properly.

Nah, don't rate the lad at all, hopefully he goes to scum under LVG, I can't say his name either but as a anagram it's easier....
Weirdeerlad !   

YNWA