OK, so far we're not very good. What are the reasons and how do we fix it?

(SENT FROM MY OWN THREAD WHICH I'VE SUGGESTED IS CLOSED, AS IT DUPLICATED OTHER STUFF)

OK its easy to see whats going wrong. We can spend all day saying "So and so was sh*t, bench him and sell him".

..
The rest of the team, I'll address later.

Can't wait for the rest of your analysis. Let me guess:

Up front - we need to buy a WORLD CLASS striker.

On the wings - let's buy a couple of WORLD CLASS wingers.

Protecting the back line - let's buy a WORLD CLASS defensive midfielder.

Pro-sports is so simple isn't it?

Benitez   and Torres  ?

He had a bit of pace and did run a bit though - to be fair Gerrard was never too far from him either then.

Can't wait for the rest of your analysis. Let me guess:

Up front - we need to buy a WORLD CLASS striker.

On the wings - let's buy a couple of WORLD CLASS wingers.

Protecting the back line - let's buy a WORLD CLASS defensive midfielder.

Pro-sports is so simple isn't it?

Benitez   and Torres  ?

It wasn't that bad from what I remember. We controlled the majority of games, especially the big games.

I remember we used to dominate the middle and under Bentiez, we rarely lost out in midfield battles.

Benitez   and Torres  ?

Indeed.

Difference with Benitez was that he was tactically astute whereas Brendan, quite frankly, isn't.

If Brendan had managed the 05 team Rafa had to manage, we'd have taken a nosedive toward the bottom half of the table.

Rafa had his signings slated on a number of occasions. I was never too easy on him myself, but something that was quite apparent was his ability to get the best out of some of the players he had signed.

By no means were the likes of Pennant, Kuyt, Bellamy or Crouch exciting players to watch, but Rafa had a system, he worked on it, and in return came some fantastic results. Frustrating was Benitez's managerial style, but he knew how to scrape out victories.

Brendan on the other hand is a complete novice. What's his resume? Youth coach at Chelsea, manager at Reading and Swansea, manager of Liverpool. Benitez had won the La Liga and Uefa Cup with Valencia before arriving here. We were clearly appointing a very intelligent manager with a proven record.

Yes Brendan nearly did win us the PL last season, but what inevitably cost us was our inability to break down the bus Chelsea had parked. That was the first real test of Brendan's managerial skills, and it showed how utterly one dimensional we were.

Brendan is still a young manager mind you, but he is going to make mistakes and tons of them. This is the 2nd real test of Brendan's managerial career. In May we can look back and see just how resilient he was.

First big big test of character for Brendan. Last season we witnessed him getting formations, team selections and tactics wrong early on but he never hesitated to have a slice of humble pie and change things. This season the humble pie has been left intact in the refrigerator. He seems a more stubborn manager now.

The year we ran close for the PL title with Nando up front and Stevie tucked in behind ?
We would have made it ....but for injuries .....and how many actual games they were able to play together.

First big big test of character for Brendan. Last season we witnessed him getting formations, team selections and tactics wrong early on but he never hesitated to have a slice of humble pie and change things. This season the humble pie has been left intact in the refrigerator. He seems a more stubborn manager now.

Interesting point.

There's been a few pointing to the idea that he's lost the dressing room a bit too. Think yourself, Stuey and AussieRed were saying about Coutinho having a glare off him last night. I didn't witness that but the Sakho incident did raise the point too.

You have to wonder what the lads from last season are thinking, they were part of a team that came close to winning the league and no doubt had Brendan heaping praise upon them. Suddenly they're here this season being dropped for the incoming 'upgrades' and the results aren't holding up.

Coutinho ditched for Lallana seemingly, Sakho ditched for Lovren, their noses may well be out of place. The problem with that is that Brendan doesn't seem to manage a squad well or these players aren't conducive to squad play, either way it's a problem Brendan hasn't faced before and as you rightly put it, it is his biggest test so far. The likes of City and Chelsea have near world class players on their benches and not making the first team squads without much coming out about disharmony, so far the cracks are emerging a little in ours. Guess we'll see how Brendan copes with this test.

Sorry if that crosses the line - i can delete the post if required but that's how I see AP's analysis -essentially to outspend the likes of City and Chelsea.

Indeed.

Difference with Benitez was that he was tactically astute whereas Brendan, quite frankly, isn't.

If Brendan had managed the 05 team Rafa had to manage, we'd have taken a nosedive toward the bottom half of the table.

Rafa had his signings slated on a number of occasions. I was never too easy on him myself, but something that was quite apparent was his ability to get the best out of some of the players he had signed.

By no means were the likes of Pennant, Kuyt, Bellamy or Crouch exciting players to watch, but Rafa had a system, he worked on it, and in return came some fantastic results. Frustrating was Benitez's managerial style, but he knew how to scrape out victories.

Brendan on the other hand is a complete novice. What's his resume? Youth coach at Chelsea, manager at Reading and Swansea, manager of Liverpool. Benitez had won the La Liga and Uefa Cup with Valencia before arriving here. We were clearly appointing a very intelligent manager with a proven record.

Yes Brendan nearly did win us the PL last season, but what inevitably cost us was our inability to break down the bus Chelsea had parked. That was the first real test of Brendan's managerial skills, and it showed how utterly one dimensional we were.

Brendan is still a young manager mind you, but he is going to make mistakes and tons of them. This is the 2nd real test of Brendan's managerial career. In May we can look back and see just how resilient he was.

First big big test of character for Brendan. Last season we witnessed him getting formations, team selections and tactics wrong early on but he never hesitated to have a slice of humble pie and change things. This season the humble pie has been left intact in the refrigerator. He seems a more stubborn manager now.

We have a different model of operating now.

For me, Rafa is hard to beat tactically but Brendan is a better man manager (yes I know he has fallen out with various signings who he has earmarked for departure).

Whereas Rafa dictated which players were needed and would fit in tactically with his plan, we now have a transfer committee and a manager who is more tactically flexible. The thought would therefore be that, to maximise our advantage, we try and get in the best quality players with the right characteristics and Brendan will change the way the team plays to accomodate them.

I agree this season is a massive test for him and for our "model".

Sorry if that crosses the line - i can delete the post if required but that's how I see AP's analysis -essentially to outspend the likes of City and Chelsea.


We have a different model of operating now.

For me, Rafa is hard to beat tactically but Brendan is a better man manager (yes I know he has fallen out with various signings who he has earmarked for departure).

Whereas Rafa dictated which players were needed and would fit in tactically with his plan, we now have a transfer committee and a manager who is more tactically flexible. The thought would therefore be that, to maximise our advantage, we try and get in the best quality players with the right characteristics and Brendan will change the way the team plays to accomodate them.

I agree this season is a massive test for him and for our "model".

I find the model and the committee a pile of F***ing sh*te.

Brendan's proved he's a bit like Houllier in the sense that once you fall out with the manager, you're not getting a place in the first team. Definitely cut his nose off to spite his face in terms of the goalie position and Brendan's treatment of Pepe. Whatever way you want to look at it, that has been his first real F**k-up, the second being the absolute mess we've made of replacing Suarez. Whether that be him or the committee.

I don't think many of us thought Luis would be here this season. his departure left the committee exposed in terms of their ability to identify and sign suitable players. Letting Agger and Pepe go on the cheap smacks of "just get them out of here" EGO bollocks.
Nobody seems ultimately responsible for signing players and so far we have bought very poorly.The classic one for me is signing a forward for £10mil+ and sending him back out on loan its not as if we had an abundance of talent up front.
I think we need to see a change in Saturdays team and its set up as this will acknowledge things have gone wrong.However if we see the same line up and formation then I think we are in for more trouble as it has not worked at all so far this season.

I find the model and the committee a pile of f**king sh*te.

Brendan's proved he's a bit like Houllier in the sense that once you fall out with the manager, you're not getting a place in the first team. Definitely cut his nose off to spite his face in terms of the goalie position and Brendan's treatment of Pepe. Whatever way you want to look at it, that has been his first real f**k-up, the second being the absolute mess we've made of replacing Suarez. Whether that be him or the committee.

Yep - it's a diffcult one really, looking at the list of signings, it's hard not to conclude that most of them have underperformed so far. 


Fabio Borini
Joe Allen
Oussama Assaidi
Nuri Sahin
Samed Yesil
Daniel Sturridge
Philippe Coutinho
Luis Alberto
Iago Aspas
Simon Mignolet
Kolo Touré
Aly Cissokho
Mamadou Sakho
Tiago Ilori
Victor Moses
Rickie Lambert
Adam Lallana
Emre Can
Lazar Markovic
Dejan Lovren   
Divick Origi
Javier Manquillo
Alberto Moreno
Mario Balotelli

But then would we really better off with the likes of Williams, Dempsey or Siggurdson?

Yep - it's a diffcult one really, looking at the list of signings, it's hard not to conclude that most of them have underperformed so far. 


Fabio Borini
Joe Allen
Oussama Assaidi
Nuri Sahin
Samed Yesil
Daniel Sturridge
Philippe Coutinho
Luis Alberto
Iago Aspas
Simon Mignolet
Kolo Touré
Aly Cissokho
Mamadou Sakho
Tiago Ilori
Victor Moses
Rickie Lambert
Adam Lallana
Emre Can
Lazar Markovic
Dejan Lovren   
Divick Origi
Javier Manquillo
Alberto Moreno
Mario Balotelli

But then would we really better off with the likes of Williams, Dempsey or Siggurdson?

Jesus that's like asking what do you prefer guillotine or hanging!!

Jesus that's like asking what do you prefer guillotine or hanging!!

That's what he meant when he said death by football?

Yep - it's a diffcult one really, looking at the list of signings, it's hard not to conclude that most of them have underperformed so far. 


Fabio Borini
Joe Allen
Oussama Assaidi
Nuri Sahin
Samed Yesil
Daniel Sturridge
Philippe Coutinho
Luis Alberto
Iago Aspas
Simon Mignolet
Kolo Touré
Aly Cissokho
Mamadou Sakho
Tiago Ilori
Victor Moses
Rickie Lambert
Adam Lallana
Emre Can
Lazar Markovic
Dejan Lovren   
Divick Origi
Javier Manquillo
Alberto Moreno
Mario Balotelli

But then would we really better off with the likes of Williams, Dempsey or Siggurdson?

I would take 3 from that Sturridge,Lallana and Couthino the rest do nothing for me.Moreno might do ok but sometimes I think before signing a player the committee should reflect on the fact that we are Liverpool FC and not some mid table struggling premier team.

It's amazing just how bad a decision it has turned out to be, for Rick Parry and David Moores to not sell our club to Dubai International Capital. It's amazing to think that this decision has effected this club to this very day.

It's amazing just how bad a decision it has turned out to be, for Rick Parry and David Moores to not sell our club to Dubai International Capital. It's amazing to think that this decision has effected this club to this very day.

the irony is Moores felt he could only put in £20mil per season(net) and FSG actuallyu want to have a zero net spend.F**k Parry he makes my blood boil

I find the model and the committee a pile of f**king sh*te.

Brendan's proved he's a bit like Houllier in the sense that once you fall out with the manager, you're not getting a place in the first team. Definitely cut his nose off to spite his face in terms of the goalie position and Brendan's treatment of Pepe. Whatever way you want to look at it, that has been his first real f**k-up, the second being the absolute mess we've made of replacing Suarez. Whether that be him or the committee.

I agree about the committee mate, but I don't think the problem was so much selling an out of form Reina or an injury prone Agger it was buying replacements who so far haven't been better but worse.

As for Suarez, I have never believed in selling our best players for the very reason that they are so difficult to replace. With Suarez I will accept that it was difficult if not impossible to keep him. However I do think we could have bought better and not relied on players in other positions making up the shortfall to such an extent.

I think we HAVE strengthened the squad (although it may not appear so at the moment) but we have not strengthened the team. Too many players of similar ability and not enough top quality players would be my honest opinion.

Balotelli (who I think will do better once Sturridge is back) was a bargain buy rather than a carefully chosen replacement imo.

Lambert and Borini were never going to be good enough for third choice striker especially with Sturridge's injury problems and the extra games we have this season.

I think Sturridge if we can keep him fit will solve some of our problems, but for me we need a couple of top quality players. A top class goalkeeper, midfield player and striker would hopefully solve the rest of our problems. As will time and patience as our players slowly settle and become accustomed to the expectations of a top club.

Until then I would accept that we are not going to be as prolific as we were last season and take a more pragmatic approach by trying to concede less than we score rather than just going out to thrash every team.



   

Fabio Borini
Joe Allen
Oussama Assaidi
Nuri Sahin
Samed Yesil
Daniel Sturridge
Philippe Coutinho
Luis Alberto
Iago Aspas
Simon Mignolet
Kolo Touré
Aly Cissokho
Mamadou Sakho
Tiago Ilori
Victor Moses
Rickie Lambert
Adam Lallana
Emre Can
Lazar Markovic
Dejan Lovren   
Divick Origi
Javier Manquillo
Alberto Moreno
Mario Balotelli

In bold , players who have had decent Premiership experience
In Italics , players who have had a bit of Premiership experience

The rest haven't got a f**kin clue about playing away in the FA Cup on a shitty winters day or how important 3 points at the Man U game is to us lot..
Apart from Coutinho and maybe Moreno none of the rest have shown me that they can play decent football..

Souness touched on it last night , we just don't have an Infectious player who can flick the switch on the rest of the team..
Suarez WAS an infectious Player for us.. he made everyone else up their game around him..
Stevie G used to be like that , Rushy was like that , Kenny was like that.. even Torres was for one good season.
Balotelli needs to step up to the plate , like now !! otherwise the press/media are gonna start haggling him and he will lose his rag and f**k his Liverpool career up before it's even started properly..
I just don't understand why, with 2 big centre forwards on the pitch for the last qtr of an hour we didn't throw one decent high cross over for Mario & Lambert to stick their heads on..
F**k me , just look at Peter Crouch.. even Victor bloody Moses put an inch perfect cross in to him the other night to win the game with a header.. don't think I ever saw Moses cross a ball whilst he wore a Red shirt..

Fabio Borini
Joe Allen
Oussama Assaidi
Nuri Sahin
Samed Yesil
Daniel Sturridge
Philippe Coutinho
Luis Alberto
Iago Aspas
Simon Mignolet
Kolo Touré
Aly Cissokho
Mamadou Sakho
Tiago Ilori
Victor Moses
Rickie Lambert
Adam Lallana
Emre Can
Lazar Markovic
Dejan Lovren   
Divick Origi
Javier Manquillo
Alberto Moreno
Mario Balotelli

In bold , players who have had decent Premiership experience
In Italics , players who have had a bit of Premiership experience

The rest haven't got a f**kin clue about playing away in the FA Cup on a shitty winters day or how important 3 points at the Man U game is to us lot..
Apart from Coutinho and maybe Moreno none of the rest have shown me that they can play decent football..

Souness touched on it last night , we just don't have an Infectious player who can flick the switch on the rest of the team..
Suarez WAS an infectious Player for us.. he made everyone else up their game around him..
Stevie G used to be like that , Rushy was like that , Kenny was like that.. even Torres was for one good season.
Balotelli needs to step up to the plate , like now !! otherwise the press/media are gonna start haggling him and he will lose his rag and f**k his Liverpool career up before it's even started properly..
I just don't understand why, with 2 big centre forwards on the pitch for the last qtr of an hour we didn't throw one decent high cross over for Mario & Lambert to stick their heads on..
F**k me , just look at Peter Crouch.. even Victor bloody Moses put an inch perfect cross in to him the other night to win the game with a header.. don't think I ever saw Moses cross a ball whilst he wore a Red shirt..

Victor Moses has a lot of Premier League experience, yet is neither bolded or italicised....

Victor Moses has a lot of Premier League experience, yet is neither bolded or italicised....

Okay Mate I'll give you that one...
Maybe that experience is finally showing through in a Stoke City shirt !!

Okay Mate I'll give you that one...
Maybe that experience is finally showing through in a Stoke City shirt !!

No probs mate, just thought it should be pointed out!

And tbf he is doing ok there.

the irony is Moores felt he could only put in £20mil per season(net) and FSG actuallyu want to have a zero net spend.F**k Parry he makes my blood boil

Zero net spend actually means downsizing. They aren't even maintaining the club according to the asset depreciation rules that the taxman allows.

Imagine what we were putting in during the Moores years after allowing for inflation.

Moores was an arrogant pr**k. But we got to 2 European Cup finals with him. The next two sets of jokers are nothing but parasites. Pretending the new income is their work. But in reality, its just down to the changes in football - such as bigger Sky deals, bigger Asian TV deals etc.

We could even have seen the 2 new stands 15 yrs ago. But even Moores thought it would be too little too late. So they decided on a new ground. The new ground was abolished because Fenway failed to get a sponsor (this happens with selling clubs!)

Anyway, all THIS is the reason we ain't very good. Talk of the players and tactics is minutae in comparison. Its like giving someone some aspirin for a tumour.

Good point AmericanPlant..

On the pitch though..

Back at the end of May when we qualified for Champions League we were all buzzing knowing that we had Luis Suarez leading our line and we were back in amongst Europe's elite again..

All looking good as our top players set off for brazil early June...

I watched, as the rest of the world did, as Suarez, broke Ingerlands hearts with not one but two world class goals..

Then he bit the Italian and it all went tits up..

He gets a ban , Barcelona step in with a big wad and our 2014/15 season game plan goes out the f**kin window !

So what do we do?

We go out and buy 6/7 new players.. what for?.. really..

I'dve been happy with one top central defender, a quality play maker in midfield and a near as damn it, replacement for Suarez.

Suarez comes from a region in world football that is unique.. The style of player and football thinking is nothing like anywhere else .. and that is being rammed down our throats right now when you look at Augero, Costa even Falcao and how they play their game..and how they are all, smashing goals in on a weekly basis, winning games for their club and we've ended up having to resort not to plan B but to Plan C and even D (if there is one)

Oh and Borini isn't and never will be a Liverpool player.. never mind all this "Oh I want to stay and play for Liverpool sh*te" He's not good enough and BR should have the bottle to turn round and tell him that he'll never play for Liverpool again..but he didn't and he's still here..

I really don't know what the F**k is going on at the moment but if we don't win convincingly at home against West F**kin Brom on Saturday all that hard work and effort we put in from January to May will just be washed down the Mersey and out to sea..

we need buy top cm, we still very weak in that area,