OK, so far we're not very good. What are the reasons and how do we fix it?

^^ seriously, another post from you about chelsea and city and how we need to "buy like them"? yawn

Nice Op Mick and a thread that is needed!

The problems:

- Biggest one for me is that we haven't properly accounted for Studge being injured. Balo and Lambert are the same player and the moment you take away the perpetual movement and zip we've had upfront the past 18 months the whole house of cards has come crashing down from an attacking AND a defensive point of view.

- We're still throwing bodies forward but without the same results so lots of possession (see the Villa game) with very little threat but still showing the defensive vulnerability that comes with throwing your full-backs so far forward and playing a high line.

- We can't defend a set-piece for toffee

- We've spent a ton of money on defenders and yet we still look a mess. 3 of our back 4 are new players. Moreno has settled well but Lovren has looked shaky amd as much as Manquillo looks like he might have a bright future I don't think he is ready or experienced enough to be playing week in week out in this league just yet.

My thoughts on how to solve them:

- The manager needs to remain true to his playing style and principles. That means not playing with Balotelli and Lambert on the pitch at the same time (two big target men, what's the point?). That means keeping faith with players like Coutinho despite the fact he is out of form. That means ensuring we only play with one set of creaky legs (aka Stevie's!) and not two (aka Lucas) at the same time.

- He also needs to be a bit more pragmatic (I know this sounds like a bit of contradiction). We don't need to be quite as gungho, rein the full-backs in a touch, they get high up the pitch so quickly but they don't have to, be a little bit more patient with the ball, give a little more consideration to the risks we take (so far as our shape) when we have the ball and make some subtle adjustments. Particularly when Studge isn't available.

- Hard to disagree with the calls for a defensive coach. What is Carra doing for a couple of days each week, it really wouldn't be a bad shout would it.

So rumours have it that Marco Reus may be available next summer. If Arsenal come in for him and offer him £130k per week, then let's better that and offer him £150k per week. We are Liverpool for f**k sakes, not Everton.

I'd love this fella but I get the feeling with all the Ronaldo to United bollocks that Reus could well find his way to Madrid. I am F***ing sick of picking our food from the scraps table though.

Currently:-
The attack isn't very good.
The midfield isn't any better
And the defence is not as good as the midfield.
Keeper is a bit of a problem too.

Other than that... everything looks perfect.   

Seriously, we were an ok team carried LEAGUES ahead by one legend. Now we're an "ok" team.
And by ok, I mean ok vs other PL teams - like Spurs, Villa, Everton and the like.
By historical Liverpool standards ie Rafa, Paisley, Fagan and early Dalglish eras, we're f**king terrible.

I'd love this fella but I get the feeling with all the Ronaldo to United bollocks that Reus could well find his way to Madrid. I am F***ing sick of picking our food from the scraps table though.

Been like it for years tbh.

Don't see it changing any time soon with these owners refusing to pay the wages other clubs are willing to offer. Doubt they'd even offer the transfer fees either.


But anyways, I think all our problems are compounded to our midfield. If we find the right balance there and they improve their performances, that'll mean we're creating more chances for our strikers, which should improve them and our defence should feel more solid if midfielders can control games and keep possession better.

Key priority has to be finding the right balance in midfield. Sturridge coming back is a blessing though.

Been like it for years tbh.

Don't see it changing any time soon with these owners refusing to pay the wages other clubs are willing to offer. Doubt they'd even offer the transfer fees either.

Which is the primary problem we have at the club. The owners are expecting Rodgers to eventually win major silverware without being competitive in the transfer market. He is really going to need some excellent scouts if this is how the club is run.

- Poor Defending.
   Time to call it a day with Skrtel, how many seasons on a row is her going to be terrible and get a pass?
   Sahko needs to perform the way he does for France with us.
   Lovren needs to adjust
   Carragher in as coach

- Gerrard.
   He's tired (marathon last season, crappy world cup, new season back to back).
   He's being man marked (this has already been highlighted).
   We need  a real DM in Jan. Someone who can actually support the defense.

- Up front.
  Missing Luis obvs. He wouldnt have played right now anyways but we need to solve this.
  I'd like to see Sterling tried up front with Ballo for the time being. We need another quality striker also in Jan for these moments     (Sturridge being injured)

Our problems stem from the midfield area, not enough service to the forwards and leaving the defense in the sh*t with players flying at them at will.
It must improve, I'm sure it will.
All our future transfer dealings should be focused on class cm and dm players. We could buy (insert your favourite defender) without midfield protection they would still be fu**ed.

Unfortunately for some, it all may stem from Gerrard
Why single him out, unfair etc?
He's the captain and if he doesn't look comfortable or dominating it'll influence the newcomers and young players, that's a fact.
Say he gives them a pep talk or dressing down when they are sloppy... How can they truly take that on if he- himelf can't put his money where his mouth is?
I'm not angry or bitter about Gerrard, he just isn't cutting it and Brendan needs to drop him and show some balls, don't give a F**k about nice stories of our best player, the team matters more than Gerrard.
Always
He is 1 fifth the player he was, nice penalties, long passes and free kick crosses sometimes but that isn't enough reason for him being dead wood in a dangerous pivotal position as far as our defense is concerned.
If he plays he plays further forward and gets some shots off ffs, even then; not for the full 90.

Gerrard now should be used as a sub, alá Frank Lampard. Someone who can change the game in a short space of time when needed to.

It's not nice coming to terms with the fact that one of Liverpools greatest ever players is nearly at the end of his journey. But as was said before, the team comes first.

Expanding a little on my "Gerrard on the right of the diamond/right side of midfield" idea.

To me any changes to the team which effectively kill two birds with one stone are a good idea, this one kills a flock IMHO. Firstly the form of the captain is a real worry, and it's being caused by two main factors. There's the fact that these days opposition managers man mark him without fail. There was a time when opposition managers agreed with many people on here that Gerrard was "wasted back there", but the reality is of course that with his range of passing he'll kill you if you let him, so now they don't. The second factor which is damaging Gerrards confidence and contribution is his lack of legs these days. Because he is playing in such a pivotal position in terms of protecting our defence, this lack of mobility is having an adverse effect.

Then there's the Jordan Henderson conundrum. In his case, a lack of confidence has turned him into a staccato player, a stop start small pass play it safe guy who is contributing nothing. A move to DM would let him see the game better and would also allow him to use his biggest asset, namely his staying power. In my model Henderson would be a far more mobile version of DM than Stevie currently is, even going box to box from time to time. On the occasions that he did venture, Gerrard could simply slot in and hold until he returned. More fluency and my guess is a bit more solidity too.

Lastly is the issue that we now have a striker who had some physical presence, but we don't cross it into the box. On the odd occasion that we do (against West Ham for instance, in the European game and against Tottenham) our big striker looks dangerous. The problem is though that we don't have a natural crosser, apart from Gerrard of course who is the best of the best at it. Why not then release him to the right side, get him on the ball in their half a bit more and give the opposition the problem of stopping Gerrard getting a touch of the ball (he is quite capable as we know of delivering quality with one touch). If nothing else getting midfielders and defenders around him there will open things up for others, AND having Gerrard on the right would encourage teams to defend higher so as to avoid competing for his crosses on thief penalty spot. This alteration would greatly help Moreno, Sturridge and Sterling.

So there you have it, that's why IMHO we should play Gerrard on the right. Here's the abridged reasons.

1. Moving Henderson back there would make us more solid.

2. Moving Henderson back there would give us more possibilities of making an extra man going forward.

3. Moving Henderson back there would no doubt help him to regain his confidence.

4. Moving Gerrard up would make him much harder to mark. If he was marked it would open the pitch up for others.

5. Gerrard is the best crosser of a football in the league, he WOULD make lots of chances from out there.

6. Gerrard's lack of legs wouldn't be so pivotal from the right.

7. Gerrard would be far easier to rotate/substitute/rest if he were playing right side rather than as a holder.

Do it Brendan.

Expanding a little on my "Gerrard on the right of the diamond/right side of midfield" idea.

To me any changes to the team which effectively kill two birds with one stone are a good idea, this one kills a flock IMHO. Firstly the form of the captain is a real worry, and it's being caused by two main factors. There's the fact that these days opposition managers man mark him without fail. There was a time when opposition managers agreed with many people on here that Gerrard was "wasted back there", but the reality is of course that with his range of passing he'll kill you if you let him, so now they don't. The second factor which is damaging Gerrards confidence and contribution is his lack of legs these days. Because he is playing in such a pivotal position in terms of protecting our defence, this lack of mobility is having an adverse effect.

Then there's the Jordan Henderson conundrum. In his case, a lack of confidence has turned him into a staccato player, a stop start small pass play it safe guy who is contributing nothing. A move to DM would let him see the game better and would also allow him to use his biggest asset, namely his staying power. In my model Henderson would be a far more mobile version of DM than Stevie currently is, even going box to box from time to time. On the occasions that he did venture, Gerrard could simply slot in and hold until he returned. More fluency and my guess is a bit more solidity too.

Lastly is the issue that we now have a striker who had some physical presence, but we don't cross it into the box. On the odd occasion that we do (against West Ham for instance, in the European game and against Tottenham) our big striker looks dangerous. The problem is though that we don't have a natural crosser, apart from Gerrard of course who is the best of the best at it. Why not then release him to the right side, get him on the ball in their half a bit more and give the opposition the problem of stopping Gerrard getting a touch of the ball (he is quite capable as we know of delivering quality with one touch). If nothing else getting midfielders and defenders around him there will open things up for others, AND having Gerrard on the right would encourage teams to defend higher so as to avoid competing for his crosses on thief penalty spot. This alteration would greatly help Moreno, Sturridge and Sterling.

So there you have it, that's why IMHO we should play Gerrard on the right. Here's the abridged reasons.

1. Moving Henderson back there would make us more solid.

2. Moving Henderson back there would give us more possibilities of making an extra man going forward.

3. Moving Henderson back there would no doubt help him to regain his confidence.

4. Moving Gerrard up would make him much harder to mark. If he was marked it would open the pitch up for others.

5. Gerrard is the best crosser of a football in the league, he WOULD make lots of chances from out there.

6. Gerrard's lack of legs wouldn't be so pivotal from the right.

7. Gerrard would be far easier to rotate/substitute/rest if he were playing right side rather than as a holder.

Do it Brendan.

Actually, using Henderson in DM is probably the best possible way to utilize him.
He wouldn't slack off and he'd be hassling opposition players 'til the final whistle, with the legs and engine to not turn off towards the latter part of the match.

If Gerrard goes to the right of the diamond, is that every game or some games? I'm thinking of who wouldn't get the chance in that position if it were taken by Gerrard.

Food for thought though, yes.

Something is off kilter... well the midfield is being sliced through at will, and some drastic action is needed, changing players set positions.
Instead of just dropping them, using them in a different role.

BR is stubborn to an extent but we've seen him revise his thinking before.
Revising Gerrard in that role he put him in last season might be his next move.

Expanding a little on my "Gerrard on the right of the diamond/right side of midfield" idea.

To me any changes to the team which effectively kill two birds with one stone are a good idea, this one kills a flock IMHO. Firstly the form of the captain is a real worry, and it's being caused by two main factors. There's the fact that these days opposition managers man mark him without fail. There was a time when opposition managers agreed with many people on here that Gerrard was "wasted back there", but the reality is of course that with his range of passing he'll kill you if you let him, so now they don't. The second factor which is damaging Gerrards confidence and contribution is his lack of legs these days. Because he is playing in such a pivotal position in terms of protecting our defence, this lack of mobility is having an adverse effect.

Then there's the Jordan Henderson conundrum. In his case, a lack of confidence has turned him into a staccato player, a stop start small pass play it safe guy who is contributing nothing. A move to DM would let him see the game better and would also allow him to use his biggest asset, namely his staying power. In my model Henderson would be a far more mobile version of DM than Stevie currently is, even going box to box from time to time. On the occasions that he did venture, Gerrard could simply slot in and hold until he returned. More fluency and my guess is a bit more solidity too.

Lastly is the issue that we now have a striker who had some physical presence, but we don't cross it into the box. On the odd occasion that we do (against West Ham for instance, in the European game and against Tottenham) our big striker looks dangerous. The problem is though that we don't have a natural crosser, apart from Gerrard of course who is the best of the best at it. Why not then release him to the right side, get him on the ball in their half a bit more and give the opposition the problem of stopping Gerrard getting a touch of the ball (he is quite capable as we know of delivering quality with one touch). If nothing else getting midfielders and defenders around him there will open things up for others, AND having Gerrard on the right would encourage teams to defend higher so as to avoid competing for his crosses on thief penalty spot. This alteration would greatly help Moreno, Sturridge and Sterling.

So there you have it, that's why IMHO we should play Gerrard on the right. Here's the abridged reasons.

1. Moving Henderson back there would make us more solid.

2. Moving Henderson back there would give us more possibilities of making an extra man going forward.

3. Moving Henderson back there would no doubt help him to regain his confidence.

4. Moving Gerrard up would make him much harder to mark. If he was marked it would open the pitch up for others.

5. Gerrard is the best crosser of a football in the league, he WOULD make lots of chances from out there.

6. Gerrard's lack of legs wouldn't be so pivotal from the right.

7. Gerrard would be far easier to rotate/substitute/rest if he were playing right side rather than as a holder.

Do it Brendan.

Although I can see where you're coming from Mick, I'm not sure it would work as easily as your reasons make out.

Firstly one of Jordans main assets is his pressing and harrying of the ball and the space around it, he doesn't "tackle" as such, which is vital component of a DM.  Also we've missed this part of his game recently due to him being too "deep" trying to help out Stevie, so if he's playing as a DM we'd still be missing this as Stevie won't do that work in Jordans usual position, leaving us even more exposed.

You say that we'd benefit from Stevies deliveries into the box but that's been the worst part of his game so far this season.  It's possible that he's not been able to ping his usual 60yrd balls forward due to him being manmarked but if he's being manmarked on the right then surely he's still not going to be playing them.  Also his deadball deliveries haven't been upto his usual standard, so we're not a threat from freekicks or corners.

It's unfortunate that we've suffered injuries to his two natural replacements meaning he's not been rested but I'd rather we just rotate with Lucas and keep the rest of the midfield and attack as is, instead of rearranging the side just to accomodate Stevie.

That is what a squad is for.

Expanding a little on my "Gerrard on the right of the diamond/right side of midfield" idea.

To me any changes to the team which effectively kill two birds with one stone are a good idea, this one kills a flock IMHO. Firstly the form of the captain is a real worry, and it's being caused by two main factors. There's the fact that these days opposition managers man mark him without fail. There was a time when opposition managers agreed with many people on here that Gerrard was "wasted back there", but the reality is of course that with his range of passing he'll kill you if you let him, so now they don't. The second factor which is damaging Gerrards confidence and contribution is his lack of legs these days. Because he is playing in such a pivotal position in terms of protecting our defence, this lack of mobility is having an adverse effect.

Then there's the Jordan Henderson conundrum. In his case, a lack of confidence has turned him into a staccato player, a stop start small pass play it safe guy who is contributing nothing. A move to DM would let him see the game better and would also allow him to use his biggest asset, namely his staying power. In my model Henderson would be a far more mobile version of DM than Stevie currently is, even going box to box from time to time. On the occasions that he did venture, Gerrard could simply slot in and hold until he returned. More fluency and my guess is a bit more solidity too.

Lastly is the issue that we now have a striker who had some physical presence, but we don't cross it into the box. On the odd occasion that we do (against West Ham for instance, in the European game and against Tottenham) our big striker looks dangerous. The problem is though that we don't have a natural crosser, apart from Gerrard of course who is the best of the best at it. Why not then release him to the right side, get him on the ball in their half a bit more and give the opposition the problem of stopping Gerrard getting a touch of the ball (he is quite capable as we know of delivering quality with one touch). If nothing else getting midfielders and defenders around him there will open things up for others, AND having Gerrard on the right would encourage teams to defend higher so as to avoid competing for his crosses on thief penalty spot. This alteration would greatly help Moreno, Sturridge and Sterling.

So there you have it, that's why IMHO we should play Gerrard on the right. Here's the abridged reasons.

1. Moving Henderson back there would make us more solid.

2. Moving Henderson back there would give us more possibilities of making an extra man going forward.

3. Moving Henderson back there would no doubt help him to regain his confidence.

4. Moving Gerrard up would make him much harder to mark. If he was marked it would open the pitch up for others.

5. Gerrard is the best crosser of a football in the league, he WOULD make lots of chances from out there.

6. Gerrard's lack of legs wouldn't be so pivotal from the right.

7. Gerrard would be far easier to rotate/substitute/rest if he were playing right side rather than as a holder.

Do it Brendan.

The idea is sound and something I've suggested myself but I'm not sure Henderson is the right player to do it for more than a short period in the game. What about dropping Henderson for Can and having a Gerrard and Lallana or Allen on the flanks and Sterling at the tip? What we'd loose in boundless energy we'd make up for in creativity in midfield which could solve some of our attacking problems as well.

The idea is sound and something I've suggested myself but I'm not sure Henderson is the right player to do it for more than a short period in the game. What about dropping Henderson for Can and having a Gerrard and Lallana or Allen on the flanks and Sterling at the tip? What we'd loose in boundless energy we'd make up for in creativity in midfield which could solve some of our attacking problems as well.

I think Can would come into the equation if he were fit mate, as would obviously Allen. As it is though we are down to the bones a little, and my suggestion is really about giving us a platform which would hopefully get our season going a bit. Whether or not we stuck with it longer term would depend on how well it's working, but for me moving Gerrard right and Henderson back would give us more goal threat AND more solidity, which has to make it good idea.

On the attacking side of our game, I have no great worries that Brendan will sort that out.
With Sturridge injured and Suarez gone we are not quite able to play with the movement up top that we had last season, but Mario is a good player and so are the other new guys that we have brought in and sooner or later we will work out how to get the best out of all of them. Plus obviously Sturridge comin back will help termendously.

The ongoing problem is on the defensive side, and my mantra continues to be that we need a new defensive coach. How many good defenders, and combinations of good defenders, do we have to go through before we recognise that Brendan's existing coaching team are very good on the offensive side of things, but not good enough on the defensive.
I can understand Brendan not wanting to bring in somebody new who might not fit, or might start trying to interfere with his system in ways he doesn't entirely like, but surely the time has come for the owners to say to him to bring somebody in. It should be somebody he picks, not imposed on him, but he should be told he needs to find somebody.

The only real alternative to this now is blame the goalie for lack of leadership etc, and put our defensive hesitancy down to that. Its true he has struggled at the start of this season, but its worth remembering that in Brendan's first season we had Pepe in goal and the solid defence that he had inherited struggled then as well.

As far as moving Stevie from DM goes - I think its true that if he is going to be man-marked then we need to be more flexible and have him and Hendo switching postions more during games to pull the man-markier around and allow other midfielders the space to start things off.
But the DM/holding role requires LESS running around than the box-to-box/pressing role that Hendo plays, so I don't think it'd be playing to their strengths to switch Stevie and Hendo round as a fixed thing.

We get all of our players back from injury and hope the F**k we can keep them fit for the season.
Sturridge and Allen already look vital.

Two main things for me - I don't know why we've started playing two defensive midfielders again.   Last season we had Henderson and Coutinho feeding Sterling, Suarez, Sturridge.   

If we HAVE to pick Lucas and Gerrard then one of them ie. Gerrard should be playing further up the field and have some of his defensive duties relinquished - its hardly f**king rocket science.  While he may not be as effective as in the old days you'd rather have him than Lucas in the opposing half.

And Lovren, I don't think his distribution or intelligence is anywhere near as good as he/we might think. 

Apart from the Suarez sized hole in the team you can't say the rest is too much of a shift in quality (on paper). 

PS. I think failing to either replace or provide the keeper with competition was also a mistake.  It's easy for a defence to lose confidence in their keeper and much harder to regain it.

Playing Gerrard on the right side of midfield seems pretty pointless to me. He is not dynamic enough to play in such a position for us. His inability to get on the ball and make intrinsic passes further up the pitch would hinder us. His inability to track back after a counter could also hurt us. We are dealing with an old man here. I thibk it's come to that point whereby we utilise him in the same manner that Chelsea have done over the previous two seasons. Keep him on the bench and let him feature in the odd game here and there. He hasn't the legs to play every minute of every game for us anymore. I wish people could see that.

What exactly would he offer us as a right sided midfielder? Crosses into the box for our two big target men?

I'd rather Allen, Lallana or Coutinho feature on the right side of midfield. Players who still have the legs to press the opposition.

  If we HAVE to pick Lucas and Gerrard then one of them ie. Gerrard should be playing further up the field and have some of his defensive duties relinquished - its hardly f**king rocket science.  While he may not be as effective as in the old days you'd rather have him than Lucas in the opposing half.

The problem is JD, as far as I can see, is that both Lucas and Gerrard are so immobile theses days they both want to sit in front of the back four and virtually play the same game in the same positions but actually offer very little of the extra cover you'd expect to get from having two there.

I honestly don't think Gerrard can play anywhere else these days which is why I disagree with Mick on him playing on the right of the diamond as I don't think he has the legs to play there. We'd see zero pressing and gaping holes if he played there.

Mick has a point if Gerrard is to be played as a impact player but no way he can play 90 mins twice a week in that role.
As for Hendo as DM that is really neutering him and having him making runs forward and pressing high up is what his game is all about.

I'm fed-up with our midfield, why not try deploying  Enrique (if he's fit) to replace Stevie. Well,  most attacks were down our right flank so far and nothing to loose here, it can't get any worse than that, can it?

Easy - we revert back to the Liverpool Way of pass and F***ing move.

We've got the passing bit down, it's the moving bit we're struggling with this year.

Our problems in defense and attack are linked to our weak defensive midfield.

When defending, we are ran over as Gerrard does not have anymore the stamina nor the legs to keep up with the high tempo of the EPL. The truth is that the Gerrard that started this campaing is nowhere near a Top 4 club. It is the current reality. When attacking, the opponents mark Gerrard which takes him out of the game due to his current lack of mobility. F***ing Downing took Gerrard out of the game on Saturday; who would have thought that would ever happen...

I do not understand how, when so much is on the line for our club, we would look to change the team so Gerrard can play. This is utterly absurd.

As pointed out by a poster, how BR manages Gerrard playing time (or lack of) will define his legacy at Liverpool. Gerrard is a proud competitor and will fight (as he should) for his starting place. He also without a doubt has a huge influence on the club and his teammates who look up to him.

So it will be up to BR to show his managerial skills to ensure that Gerrard influence remains positive in spite of a future/potential lack of playing time.