Should we increase or decrease power given to Brendan in the transfer window?

Right let's re-evaluate where we are.

Without a recognised striker and with half of Smith and Jones in net we were about equal in performance terms to United (though they took their chances),we schooled Arsenal and we schooled Swansea. We were lucky to get a result against a hard running Burnley who just drew against City.

We are five points off fourth after nineteen games. Another three points in our next match and we are bang in the race for one of the two Champions League spots that are up for grabs. Due to the increased TV money this year it is essential we qualify and one of our rivals misses out otherwise we are another sixty million behind them plus the pick of the best players in Summer.

As everyone knows, we need a better keeper and another pacey striker ready to run behind defences. Options in the January window are limited and we are perilously close to spending the maximum allowable limit according to FFP.

The key question here is do we give the manager MORE power to decide on transfers or less?

We all know the arguments - traditionally the manager has had almost complete autonomy but his "own" signings this time round have been the likes of Borini, Allen, Lovren and Lallana. Missed targets include Gylfi, Britton, Williams, Dempsey, Willian, Bony.

The 'committee' with the weird computer system have been responsible for the likes of Sturridge, Sakho, Coutinho, Markovic, Aspas, Balotelli, Alberto, Moreno, Manquillo, Assaidi and so on.

So which way do we go? More power for the manager or less? And WHY? Our future really does depend on the answer.

F**k the commitee, we need a capable director of football who can form a good team with Brendan, and they should consult regarding transfers.

To answer the question we need to know who is responsible for the transfers over the last 18 months or so. Fenway need to come clean and let us know who is on this committee (secret society) and what responsibility Brendan Rodgers has regarding transfers. Unless we know we cannot point the finger at anyone. Maybe this is how Fenway  want it=mushrooms come to mind.

Without a recognised striker and with half of Smith and Jones in net we were about equal in performance terms to United (though they took their chances),we schooled Arsenal and we schooled Swansea.

Schooled ?   Schooled Arsenal ?

WTF does that double speak mean ?

If this computer system is  true, FSG should give us a lend of a few bats from the RedSox and we can take care of that.

Piss take of a thread.

F**k the commitee, we need a capable director of football who can form a good team with Brendan, and they should consult regarding transfers.

Brendan has explicity ruled out working with a DOF so that's not an option.

Piss take of a thread.

Thanks for your contribution. Now off you F**k.

Schooled ?   Schooled Arsenal ?

WTF does that double speak mean ?

Is it what the manager gave to you with the result last night?

To answer the question we need to know who is responsible for the transfers over the last 18 months or so. Fenway need to come clean and let us know who is on this committee (secret society) and what responsibility Brendan Rodgers has regarding transfers. Unless we know we cannot point the finger at anyone. Maybe this is how Fenway  want it=mushrooms come to mind.

It's well known who is on the "committee" mate.
It's been splashed all over the media, and there's a couple of threads about it on here.

Rodgers sits on the committee along with managing director Ian Ayre, head of recruitment Dave Fallows and head of performance and analysis Michael Edwards.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/brendan-rodgers-liverpool-fc-transfer-7185770

Nothing "secret" about it at all.

What does this thread even mean? Undermine his power as manager? Nah FSG, not doing your poll on the subject.
This will turn into a mad argument thread with the high and mighty mocking everyone who doesn't toe the line, sucking the asses of the American owners for some ungodly reason.

It's not about how much / little power Brendan has.

It's about finding a competent way of working - what we currently have is utterly incompetent.

What does this thread even mean? Undermine his power as manager? Nah FSG, not doing your poll on the subject.
This will turn into a mad argument thread with the high and mighty mocking everyone who doesn't toe the line, sucking the asses of the American owners for some ungodly reason.

Is correct and no surprises as to who kicked it off, actually it was the first name that came to mind when I saw the thread title.
It is rather disingenuous in that the inference is the manager is solely responsible for the transfer policy, the limitation on fees and the players signed.
The muppet who started the thread is constantly shifting any blame from the owners, this is a cunning plan to achieve the same proposition by subliminal suggestion.
Far to clever for me which is why I have been forced to put said muppet on ignore. 

I suppose you mean give him a larger vote on the transfer committee?

Not really sure about this because his supposed preferences over the last few years don't really inspire that much confidence in his ability to identify real quality, Allen, Borini and Lovren being the ones that come to mind.

Even the ones that he was drooling over last year, Bony and Ashley Williams suggests to me he is still not experienced enough in the transfer market to be given a free reign.

Giving him more of a say is a bit of a side issue to the real problem which is our ability to deal at the top end of the market which is where FSG need to move their strict guidelines if we really want to compete at the top table.

I suppose you mean give him a larger vote on the transfer committee?

Not really sure about this because his supposed preferences over the last few years don't really inspire that much confidence in his ability to identify real quality, Allen, Borini and Lovren being the ones that come to mind.

Even the ones that he was drooling over last year, Bony and Ashley Williams suggests to me he is still not experienced enough in the transfer market to be given a free reign.

Giving him more of a say is a bit of a side issue to the real problem which is our ability to deal at the top end of the market which is where FSG need to move their strict guidelines if we really want to compete at the top table.

Have a word with yourself.
How can you criticise the manager in the light of your closing statement?
The club/manager is unable to compete on a level playing field because of the owners ''strict guidelines'' and you suggest the aforementioned be removed to enable LFC to progress - your words entirely.
How can you expect any manager to operate under such restrictions?
 

Or just buy him a striker that suits his preferred style of football ie not Carroll, Balotelli or Lambert.
You know, one more like Suarez or Sturridge, the two lads that were top scorers last season.

Have a word with yourself.
How can you criticise the manager in the light of your closing statement?
The club/manager is unable to compete on a level playing field because of the owners ''strict guidelines'' and you suggest the aforementioned be removed to enable LFC to progress - your words entirely.
How can you expect any manager to operate under such restrictions?
 

Not really criticising mate just noting that due to his inexperience he has not yet shown any credentials in being able to identify top level players if the rumours of him wanting Bertrand, Ashley Williams, Bony etc are true.
He needs a transfer committee or a DoF to guide him.

I have always said he is a top coach and maybe one day he will become a top manager.

The manager should have more power, whoever the manager is. That said somebody has to tell him what the budget is (otherwise he'll just say "I want Messi and Ronaldo") and I personally think it's fair enough that an overall policy in terms of age of players signed is spelled out to him too.

I personally don't have a massive problem with the "committee" helping Brendan work out the pro's and cons of the finances ("if we buy such and such then we won't be able to afford the wages for such and such, so what do you want to do?" and all that), neither do I have a problem with scouts having a say and sticking their two penneth in. I don't even have a problem with the owners saying "hang on we've just bought Ricky Lambert, we ain't buying Gareth Barry and Ashley Cole too", no problem with any of that. The club has to be run with a long term plan in mind, pointless if the manager gets the bullet or walks then we are back to square one. What I do have issue with is these f*****g computer nerds having any say at all, (they should be f****d off pronto) and the manager NOT actually having the final say. I know he says that he does, but the final say on which one of the computer geeks two options that are under the age of 23 and won't cost much in transfer fee or wages isn't the same as the actual, real, final say. That's what he should have, parameters yes but also the final call.   

Have a word with yourself.
How can you criticise the manager in the light of your closing statement?
The club/manager is unable to compete on a level playing field because of the owners ''strict guidelines'' and you suggest the aforementioned be removed to enable LFC to progress - your words entirely.
How can you expect any manager to operate under such restrictions?

Stuey....I don't know how you could argue something and get the most basic, important aspect wrong.

 

The manager should have more power, whoever the manager is. That said somebody has to tell him what the budget is (otherwise he'll just say "I want Messi and Ronaldo") and I personally think it's fair enough that an overall policy in terms of age of players signed is spelled out to him too.

I personally don't have a massive problem with the "committee" helping Brendan work out the pro's and cons of the finances ("if we buy such and such then we won't be able to afford the wages for such and such, so what do you want to do?" and all that), neither do I have a problem with scouts having a say and sticking their two penneth in. I don't even have a problem with the owners saying "hang on we've just bought Ricky Lambert, we ain't buying Gareth Barry and Ashley Cole too", no problem with any of that. The club has to be run with a long term plan in mind, pointless if the manager gets the bullet or walks then we are back to square one. What I do have issue with is these f*****g computer nerds having any say at all, (they should be f****d off pronto) and the manager NOT actually having the final say. I know he says that he does, but the final say on which one of the computer geeks two options that are under the age of 23 and won't cost much in transfer fee or wages isn't the same as the actual, real, final say. That's what he should have, parameters yes but also the final call.

These are good points and ones that I mostly agree with. I wouldn't dismiss the computer models out of hand however - it's the way in which they are used which is the important thing. Rafa, for example, was a believer in using statistics and computer modelling.

As you say, parameters have to be in place for the good of the club; if Brendan had his way we woudl the likes of Williams instead of Sakho, Dempsey instead of Sturridge and Salah instead of Markovic.

Is that the way that we want to go? I'm undecided. As HscRed says above he is an excellent coach but has yet to gain experience of being a manger at the very top level.

It's not about how much / little power Brendan has.

It's about finding a competent way of working - what we currently have is utterly incompetent.

Can you expand on this a little? I personally think our transfers have been as good or better than most other teams in recent years. Sure we've had some flops (Assaidi, Aspas, and Alberto all spring to mind), but we've also signed some top players for relative peanuts (Coutinho 8.5M, Sturridge 12M, and Can 10M). Many others have been accurately priced and I'm happy with the level of quality we got in players like Lallana, Markovic, Moreno, and Sakho. Lovren and Balotelli have thus far been underwhelming, but it's a bit harsh to condemn players who have only been here 6 months as total flops.

If you compare our transfers dealings with our rivals, they really don't look that bad. Chelsea have signed players like Salah, Demba Ba, Marin, Moses, and Romeu for hefty fees in recent years. City have spent loads on players like Mangala, Rodwell, Lescott, Sinclair, and Garcia. The scum have wasted money on Fellaini, Smalling, Young, Zaha, and Bebe.

Overall, I think we've actually done fairly well. Get a better backup striker to compete with Studge, a boss CM to replace the fading Gerrard, and a top GK and we will be in damn good shape. Let's not forget that we have a lot of very talented young players who will improve with time and gel as a team over the next 12-18 months. Exciting times ahead in my opinion

As for Brendan and the committee, I think Brendan should have plenty of power, input, and the final say on transfers. I also have no problem with a committee who helps keep things in check. Just need to keep tabs on them to make sure they are working well together and not getting in each other's way.

Is it what the manager gave to you with the result last night?

WTF ? Incomprehensible Riddles 

 

WTF ? Incomprehensible Riddles

For once in your life post something relevant to the thread title. Your trolling is boring.

his "own" signings this time round have been the likes of Borini, Allen, Lovren and Lallana. Missed targets include Gylfi, Britton, Williams, Dempsey, Willian, Bony.

The 'committee' with the weird computer system have been responsible for the likes of Sturridge, Sakho, Coutinho, Markovic, Aspas, Balotelli, Alberto, Moreno, Manquillo, Assaidi and so on.

How do you know those signings specifically have been bought by the committee?

How do you know those signings specifically have been bought by the committee?

It is possible that the committe have bought the likes of Borini and Allen here against the manager's wishes but it's unlikely.

Nobody "knows" anything definitively apart from the manager and committee members but those are the indications from the information that has so far been leaked from both sides.

For once in your life post something relevant to the thread title.

Some people say for therapy ... get a puppy.
May I suggest an Avatar ?

Whatever Brendan wants, I'll go along with!

It is possible that the committe have bought the likes of Borini and Allen here against the manager's wishes but it's unlikely.

Nobody "knows" anything definitively apart from the manager and committee members but those are the indications from the information that has so far been leaked from both sides.

I think this is the "exciting" signing the boss was talking about.

Rodgers: Fans will love him
13th Jul 2012 - Latest News

Brendan Rodgers revealed his delight at securing Fabio Borini as his first signing as Liverpool manager and predicted: 'The supporters are going to love him.'

Rodgers told Liverpoolfc.com: "I was very keen to bring him here. Fabio fits the model of what we're trying to do in building not only for now, but also for the future.

Allen completes Liverpool move

Liverpool Football Club are delighted to announce that midfielder Joe Allen has today completed his transfer from Swansea City.
Brendan Rodgers said: "I'm absolutely delighted that Joe has made the decision to come with us on this journey.

"Joe is a player whose profile will fit perfectly with the ideas of this group. His ability to control and dominate the ball is an important ingredient in our attempt to gain success on the field.


Welcome to LFC, Joe!

I don't think it is possible with these two quotes.

I don't give a F**k what it's called, The Committee, Orc Scouting Party or The 'New' Bootroom.  It just needs to be successful as an entity and, thusfar, it hasn't. 

If the general consensus is that the current system isn't working then it's a no brainer, give Brendan overall power in who he signs, this way if it goes tits up there is only him to blame,

Obviously he has to be relatively sensible and not expect to sign the messi's of this world , however, if say a Suarez type worldy came along that fits perfectly and Brendan made him his must have then he should be given the funds to land him, even if it means having to outbid rivals,
Nothing is cheap these days, if you really want a player and believe the investment will pay dividends then he should be bought,
Think about how much it has cost Citeh, Chavs to buy the title, it ain't f***in cheap,

We would only need maybe 2-3 top class additions from the top drawer, and they would take us to another level, regular CL qualification itself would bring in the kind of finance that attracts further quality.

YNWA

Can you expand on this a little? I personally think our transfers have been as good or better than most other teams in recent years. Sure we've had some flops (Assaidi, Aspas, and Alberto all spring to mind), but we've also signed some top players for relative peanuts (Coutinho 8.5M, Sturridge 12M, and Can 10M). Many others have been accurately priced and I'm happy with the level of quality we got in players like Lallana, Markovic, Moreno, and Sakho. Lovren and Balotelli have thus far been underwhelming, but it's a bit harsh to condemn players who have only been here 6 months as total flops.

If you compare our transfers dealings with our rivals, they really don't look that bad. Chelsea have signed players like Salah, Demba Ba, Marin, Moses, and Romeu for hefty fees in recent years. City have spent loads on players like Mangala, Rodwell, Lescott, Sinclair, and Garcia. The scum have wasted money on Fellaini, Smalling, Young, Zaha, and Bebe.

Overall, I think we've actually done fairly well. Get a better backup striker to compete with Studge, a boss CM to replace the fading Gerrard, and a top GK and we will be in damn good shape. Let's not forget that we have a lot of very talented young players who will improve with time and gel as a team over the next 12-18 months. Exciting times ahead in my opinion

As for Brendan and the committee, I think Brendan should have plenty of power, input, and the final say on transfers. I also have no problem with a committee who helps keep things in check. Just need to keep tabs on them to make sure they are working well together and not getting in each other's way.

I'm pretty simplistic on this one Harry.

We may well see more to come but, in my opinion, the only nailed on successes under the committee are Sturridge and Coutinho. To that - Sturridge should have been in 6 months earlier.

Many of the players we signed in the summer may prove to be at least a partial success.

What we needed this summer were players to push on, maintain a title challenge and qualify for the knockout stages of the Champions League - not to collectively take time to settle.

It's a bit like the owners for me - this last window might ultimately turn out well in terms of return - it's just not what we needed right now.

Edwards and Fallows are f**king idiots - their method of recruitment is by a statistical program by which has been proven to be flawed by other clubs who had used it. Can't quite remember the name of this program but it was invented by some smart-alec with idiots like Fallows and Edwards following his every move.

Fallows and Edwards are no better than Comolli. Heck, at least Comolli got us Suarez, Henderson and Bellamy in amongst real dross (though Henderson was dross when he came, and current form wasn't great but last night was encouraging) which we can't really argue about. So Edwards and Fallows are arguably worse for this club.

I would say keep the same or if needed reduce his power on transfers.   It was one part of his management that so far has indicated weakness.  Though, we have bought a large pool of youngsters in the transfer market under Brendan.  And young players can take time and have a higher failure rate.  Like mentioned we don't compare badly in comparison to our rivals.  And with so many prospects that can only be good.  But my instinctive feeling is still to not give our young manager more power in transfers, yet.  He is a very good coach.  We really need to give time to this committee set up.  It is an innovative approach which shouldn't burden our manager.  We can tune it as time goes on and he grows in experience.  Maybe, when we get back on the table for an extension on his contract may be a time to consider increasing his input, by that time we will see a lot more results.

Giving or taking power to or from Brendan is another simplistic view of the situation. We need to sit down as a club and work out why we're so traditionally bad at transfers. Why does it go wrong for us as a club more often than it goes right when compared to other top flight clubs and we need to examine this over the entirety of the Premier League era because since it began, we've signed poor player after poor player and over the last twenty four years we've failed to win a single league title as a result. Only once the problem is identified can a solution be applied. Failure to do this and simply act upon opinion or a whim is to invite further problems down the line.

Brendan has explicity ruled out working with a DOF so that's not an option.

Thanks for your contribution. Now off you f**k.

Really? Well, if I was the owner of this outfit, I'd tell Rodgers that he doesn't have a choice in the matter. Except one of course, to tender his resignation.

It's a difficult question to answer because nobody has any idea about how transfers are made at the club; people may have their suspicions but nothing concrete. If Brendan has the final say on all transfers then power needs to be taken away but if he doesn't have the final say then you need to ask whether there is any power to be taken away at all.

The 'committee' as its called needs to be ripped apart and put back together again with people who have stellar reputations for buying decent players at a high level. To make it easier it should only include the manager and 2 recruitment people, not the 5 or 6 that makes up the committee at the moment.

It's not just the buying of players that is fu**ed up, its the selling part too. Prime example: we paid 7 times as much for Lovren (20m) as we got for Agger (3m) and they're near enough at the same level. Absolutely ridiculous dealings.

Decrease.
 In my opinion we should've a technical director who sorts out the transfers. It has to be someone with knowledge about players in the UK but also players in Europe. So not someone like Comolli. He should be ablo to work with much and little money. So I mean he should be able to find good players who aren't expensive(like now) but also world class players who are expensive(in the Rafa days). The technical director has to have the same philosophy as Brendan Rodgers. A system like this should work.

When we have a manager who has more knowledge about players in UK and Europe, than the technical director should have less influence.

In answer to this thread :

How do we know?   
The question of transfers is all smoke and mirrors anyway ....... so thread irrelevant. As already stated.

Well it's a moot point because it looks like he's been told he's not going to be able to spend in January.

Rodgers outlines January strategy

Brendan Rodgers today explained why he is likely to keep faith with the talent at his disposal in the Liverpool squad rather than invest in the transfer market during the January window.


 
The Reds head into 2015 in eighth position in the Barclays Premier League following a hard-fought 1-0 win at Burnley and impressive 4-1 victory over Swansea City in the festive period so far.

On the horizon for Rodgers' charges too is a two-legged League Cup semi-final against Chelsea, an FA Cup tie at AFC Wimbledon and a Europa League contest with Besiktas.

As he previewed their opening fixture of the new year today, a home clash with Leicester City, the manager was quizzed on whether he intends to recruit additions to his squad next month.

"My first look is always within," he responded. "We have seen how we have adapted the team and the structure of the team in order to make that work. I still think we've got players that can do that for us.

"So there won't be much activity for us in January. We brought in a lot of players over the course of the summer that we feel can develop, and those players are now starting to adapt to the life here at Liverpool and our way of working.

"There won't be a lot of transfer activity from us - if any - over the course of the January period. My job is to coach and manage the players that are currently here and work hard at maximising the talent that they have. That's what we'll look to do."

Rodgers continued: "I don't think it's a good time to spend. If you look at last year, we never brought anyone in. My job is to coach the players we've brought in, to manage them.

"If there is something that's available, the beauty of our owners here is that they will always back what it is we want to do. If there was something there that we felt would improve us for the short-term and longer term, we would pretty much do that.

"But I'm happy with how the group is progressing. It has been a tough start to the season for us but I can see our game coming back, the work and the confidence all returning to the team.

"Unless it was something that was going to significantly improve us, I don't want to stockpile players here. We have got some outstanding young talents out on loan.

"We sent young Jordon Ibe out for experience and he's having a wonderful season at Derby. We've got other young players like Andre Wisdom out working really well.

"My focus will always be on what we've got from within, in terms of our young talent and other players. If there's something that's available that can improve us, I would take that to the owners and we would look at it from there."

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/177251-rodgers-outlines-january-strategy

If you note the bolded parts he seems to be going to great trouble to emphasise that his job is to manage the players he's got which leads me to believe he's been told he can't spend any more money.

Really? Well, if I was the owner of this outfit, I'd tell Rodgers that he doesn't have a choice in the matter. Except one of course, to tender his resignation.

Difficult to do that as the job was taken on those terms. They ditched the idea otherwise he wouldn't have moved rom Swansea.

If you note the bolded parts he seems to be going to great trouble to emphasise that his job is to manage the players he's got which leads me to believe he's been told he can't spend any more money.

"If there is something that's available, the beauty of our owners here is that they will always back what it is we want to do. If there was something there that we felt would improve us for the short-term and longer term, we would pretty much do that.

I like some of the unbolded text as well.

I like some of the unbolded text as well.

" Beauty of our owners "

Fingers and throat come to mind.

I like some of the unbolded text as well.

I understand that Rodders but I was pointing out that he repeats the same phrase twice - "I'm here to manage the players we have". Not once but twice, he says it. You should also take in to account that he has previously mentioned talking to the owners about funds for January (it was in a recent post-match interview, I think) so taking that in to account and reading between the lines of his statement it sounds like they've said no. I might be wrong but that's what it suggests to me. Besides, this is a guy that said he wouldn't be signing any player in the Summer who wouldn't walk straight in to the first team then promptly benches the majority of players he signs in the Summer. It's not like he has a whole lot of credibility after that one, be that of his own making or someone elses.

I understand that Rodders but I was pointing out that he repeats the same phrase twice - "I'm here to manage the players we have". Not once but twice, he says it. You should also take in to account that he has previously mentioned talking to the owners about funds for January (it was in a recent post-match interview, I think) so taking that in to account and reading between the lines of his statement it sounds like they've said no. I might be wrong but that's what it suggests to me. Besides, this is a guy that said he wouldn't be signing any player in the Summer who wouldn't walk straight in to the first team then promptly benches the majority of players he signs in the Summer. It's not like he has a whole lot of credibility after that one, be that of his own making or someone elses.

I don't think we will spend this window, not for lack of funds though.

How often does the phrase "If there is something available that could improve us ........" get repeated?

I don't think we will spend this window, not for lack of funds though.

Nah, no way. Something is in the pipeline. He's just doing his usual. Talking out of his arse.

One reason for increasing his power is transfers may well get completed quicker. With less time being spent running things through a computer first, we may see less deals being completed on deadline day.
I'm all for getting the players in as early as possible, then they've more time to get to know each other.

Brendan picks the team, he should choose the squad to pick from. On his head be it.

Difficult one to call until we see who his targets are really. Some of his summer ones are starting to come good, but a lot to prove just yet. Some are crap. i.e. Keeper, so who knows.