Who leads LFC, now?....

Lallana was given the armband at Southampton at a similar age to when Stevie was given it here. He could potentially be a leader but without being vocal, more of leading by example.

Good thinking mate, although Couts could also go in the same category, leading by example not so much vocally.

I heard Joe Allen is a great leader. So is Balotelli

Henderson being full time captain of my club will depress me. He's been 2nd rate for the majority of his time at Anfield is the harsh reality.

You're going to get a lot of stick for that but you're bang on.  He's been actually worse than second rate for the majority of his time with us.  But he had a blinder during the second half of last season and so everyone suddenly forgets that he was total rubbish for two entire seasons before that and has gone back to being rubbish this season.  The lowering of standards at our club over the last few years is really shocking, we used to have Xabi, Masch and Stevie in their prime in midfield and now we are apparently supposed to sing the praises of mediocre players like Henderson and Allen.

Although to be fair to Henderson, I think that if he were made permanent captain it would say more about the squad than about him.  It's not his fault he's the only one even remotely qualified. 

I think if Sakho keeps improving and can hold down a starting spot, he could be a good shot for the time being.  He seems to be one of the few who actually cares on the pitch.  If Toure were younger he'd be a good option too. 

in fact the whole issue of who is captain just further shows how idiotic it was to sell Suarez.  Luis was one of the most talented players ever to wear the red shirt, but what made him truly world-class was that he also worked harder than anyone on our team.  He was the most talented by far but also never stopped fighting, he always tracked back, he pressed non-stop etc.  He was our hardest working player and yet because of his talent, that sometimes got overlooked.

Point is, he would have been the perfect captain as his work ethic was infectious; since he was at the top of the pitch, all the players behind him would see how hard he worked for the team, and they would think "if Luis Suarez works that hard and is that passionate, I have to be too" and they would match that intensity.  they would literally be looking up (the pitch) at him, seeing how hard a captain works and how no matter how talented you are, you have to work hard too. 

He would've been perfect.  oh well.

You're going to get a lot of stick for that but you're bang on.  He's been actually worse than second rate for the majority of his time with us.  But he had a blinder during the second half of last season and so everyone suddenly forgets that he was total rubbish for two entire seasons before that and has gone back to being rubbish this season.  The lowering of standards at our club over the last few years is really shocking, we used to have Xabi, Masch and Stevie in their prime in midfield and now we are apparently supposed to sing the praises of mediocre players like Henderson and Allen.

Although to be fair to Henderson, I think that if he were made permanent captain it would say more about the squad than about him.  It's not his fault he's the only one even remotely qualified. 

I think if Sakho keeps improving and can hold down a starting spot, he could be a good shot for the time being.  He seems to be one of the few who actually cares on the pitch.  If Toure were younger he'd be a good option too. 

in fact the whole issue of who is captain just further shows how idiotic it was to sell Suarez.  Luis was one of the most talented players ever to wear the red shirt, but what made him truly world-class was that he also worked harder than anyone on our team.  He was the most talented by far but also never stopped fighting, he always tracked back, he pressed non-stop etc.  He was our hardest working player and yet because of his talent, that sometimes got overlooked.

Point is, he would have been the perfect captain as his work ethic was infectious; since he was at the top of the pitch, all the players behind him would see how hard he worked for the team, and they would think "if Luis Suarez works that hard and is that passionate, I have to be too" and they would match that intensity.  they would literally be looking up (the pitch) at him, seeing how hard a captain works and how no matter how talented you are, you have to work hard too. 

He would've been perfect.  oh well.

+1

The real fighters left in the team for me are Sakho,Coutinho,Lallana,Toure. I never seen these players hiding , even when it is tough they tried to make something happen. For that reason alone Hendo doesn't cut it. He himself need some one else to motivate him when things go tough. He always hides when we face quality sides.

Henderson is the clear favourite for me.

From the current squad it has to be Henderson for me too

The thing is we have a young squad so there aren't that many clear stand outs beyond him.

I don't agree with this hiding thing some are accusing him of, he very rarely hides.. That shouldn't be confused with having poor games but all players do.. He is someone always encouraging his team mates, talking to them, bollocking them when needed.. He is the main one that the manager talks to to get tactical instructions on the pitch.. He has a good understanding of the game, he wears the armband when he has this season with that sense of leadership.
He may not be an obvious choice like a Gerrard was or a Carra, Hyypia in recent times but within this young squad we lack those types.

If you look at the other options.

Sakho. Looks a leader and has at PSG and France but hasn't established himself here fully yet and hasn't cracked the language fully yet

Skrtel. Needs to fully concentrate on his own game to me to be at his best, not a natural leader and the added distraction wouldn't help his game. A possible vice captain within the current squad but for me isn't what we should really be looking at as captain

Lucas. Depends on his future, has respect of the players I think but it depends on his long term future, I don't think his legs means he starts every game either so again for me more a vice captain rather than the main man.

Lallana. Saw him mentioned but not been at the club long enough to be considered. I also think there was more a chance he captained Southampton with the length of his time there and respect he held due to that rather than being such a stand out leader he can become the leader of a club like ours having only been here 6 months

Lovren. Far too much to prove yet

Flanagan. Needs to establish himself longer term yet before he gets into these conversations.

Toure. No long term future at the club where we are so can't be considered.

So for me where we currently stand in this squad

Henderson Captain
Lucas Vice (if he stays)

If Lucas moved on I'd take a punt on Sakho as vice and build the back line round him

From the current squad it has to be Henderson for me too

The thing is we have a young squad so there aren't that many clear stand outs beyond him.

I don't agree with this hiding thing some are accusing him of, he very rarely hides.. That shouldn't be confused with having poor games but all players do.. He is someone always encouraging his team mates, talking to them, bollocking them when needed.. He is the main one that the manager talks to to get tactical instructions on the pitch.. He has a good understanding of the game, he wears the armband when he has this season with that sense of leadership.
He may not be an obvious choice like a Gerrard was or a Carra, Hyypia in recent times but within this young squad we lack those types.

If you look at the other options.

Sakho. Looks a leader and has at PSG and France but hasn't established himself here fully yet and hasn't cracked the language fully yet

Skrtel. Needs to fully concentrate on his own game to me to be at his best, not a natural leader and the added distraction wouldn't help his game. A possible vice captain within the current squad but for me isn't what we should really be looking at as captain

Lucas. Depends on his future, has respect of the players I think but it depends on his long term future, I don't think his legs means he starts every game either so again for me more a vice captain rather than the main man.

Lallana. Saw him mentioned but not been at the club long enough to be considered. I also think there was more a chance he captained Southampton with the length of his time there and respect he held due to that rather than being such a stand out leader he can become the leader of a club like ours having only been here 6 months

Lovren. Far too much to prove yet

Flanagan. Needs to establish himself longer term yet before he gets into these conversations.

Toure. No long term future at the club where we are so can't be considered.

So for me where we currently stand in this squad


Henderson Captain
Lucas Vice (if he stays)

If Lucas moved on I'd take a punt on Sakho as vice and build the back line round him

Pretty much my take - I might be inclined to go Flanno for vice captain....if BR sees him as a starter.

Definitely not Skrtel or Lovren in either. IF we sign an "established" keeper wouldn't be surprised to see him as VC.

Pretty much my take - I might be inclined to go Flanno for vice captain....if BR sees him as a starter.

Definitely not Skrtel or Lovren in either. IF we sign an "established" keeper wouldn't be surprised to see him as VC.

I do tend to agree with Flanno, but like I said for me he needs to really establish himself in the side first.. He had a really good six months but we have seen that type of six months from plenty in the past who level out and don't stay at that level.
The injury for him came at the wrong time but of he gets back and continues at the level of the 6 months last year then he certainly comes into the conversation

I'd love nothing more than in 5 years that he has 200+  apparences under his belt and is one of our leaders
Time will tell

I heard Joe Allen is a great leader.

Think I'd trust Josef Stalin more. 

does Sakho speak English?

I think quite a few leaders will emerge over the coming weeks now that Stevies decision has been made public.  Sometimes having a Club legend as Captain can prevent others stepping up as they don't want to be seen as undermining the hierarchy, this isn't because they aren't confident enough but as a mark of respect which is a good sign of leadership.

I don't necessarily believe that age or seniority makes a better leader either, it's a quality that you either have or don't have but it usually shows at an early age rather than developing later in life.

Hendo is the kind of Captain who will relish the opportunity to lead his troops, he's a proud guy just like Stevie so he understands what an honour it is that he's our Captain.  I think he'll do great and I think he'll raise his game because of it. 

As for VC I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Studge.  He's a leader from the front, well liked by the squad and is great with the younger players.

does Sakho speak English?

Just make the rest of the squad learn French.

I think quite a few leaders will emerge over the coming weeks now that Stevies decision has been made public.  Sometimes having a Club legend as Captain can prevent others stepping up as they don't want to be seen as undermining the hierarchy, this isn't because they aren't confident enough but as a mark of respect which is a good sign of leadership.

I don't necessarily believe that age or seniority makes a better leader either, it's a quality that you either have or don't have but it usually shows at an early age rather than developing later in life.

Hendo is the kind of Captain who will relish the opportunity to lead his troops, he's a proud guy just like Stevie so he understands what an honour it is that he's our Captain.  I think he'll do great and I think he'll raise his game because of it. 

As for VC I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Studge.  He's a leader from the front, well liked by the squad and is great with the younger players.

This.

I ask anyone to look back to when Stevie was out at Christmas 2013, I thought Hendo stepped up to the plate and on performances alone could have kept Stevie out of the team in my opinion had it not been how well Gerrard linked up with Suarez and Sturridge.

Good call for Sturridge for VC if Hendo gets the armband. As I stated in a previous thread, I feel a lot of people are judging Hendo in the same mould as Lucas in his first few seasons here.

You're going to get a lot of stick for that but you're bang on.  He's been actually worse than second rate for the majority of his time with us.  But he had a blinder during the second half of last season and so everyone suddenly forgets that he was total rubbish for two entire seasons before that and has gone back to being rubbish this season.  The lowering of standards at our club over the last few years is really shocking, we used to have Xabi, Masch and Stevie in their prime in midfield and now we are apparently supposed to sing the praises of mediocre players like Henderson and Allen.

Although to be fair to Henderson, I think that if he were made permanent captain it would say more about the squad than about him.  It's not his fault he's the only one even remotely qualified. 

I think if Sakho keeps improving and can hold down a starting spot, he could be a good shot for the time being.  He seems to be one of the few who actually cares on the pitch.  If Toure were younger he'd be a good option too. 

in fact the whole issue of who is captain just further shows how idiotic it was to sell Suarez.  Luis was one of the most talented players ever to wear the red shirt, but what made him truly world-class was that he also worked harder than anyone on our team.  He was the most talented by far but also never stopped fighting, he always tracked back, he pressed non-stop etc.  He was our hardest working player and yet because of his talent, that sometimes got overlooked.

Point is, he would have been the perfect captain as his work ethic was infectious; since he was at the top of the pitch, all the players behind him would see how hard he worked for the team, and they would think "if Luis Suarez works that hard and is that passionate, I have to be too" and they would match that intensity.  they would literally be looking up (the pitch) at him, seeing how hard a captain works and how no matter how talented you are, you have to work hard too. 

He would've been perfect.  oh well.

Yeah he would have been perfect except that when he wasn't suspended he tried to force a move to Arsenal then suceeded in forcing a move to Barcelona.

Of the players who actually want to be at the club, Henderson has been captain of England at U21 level, impressed Capello enough to get an early senior call up and, at 24, has done enough to be given the Vice captaincy by our manager.

Given that he has been shifted around a lot this season and played in an under-performing team i think he has played alright. He has not hit the heights of last season but there is no reason to thik that he won't do since he is clearly intelligent and is, as pointed out before, age 24.

Yeah he would have been perfect except that when he wasn't suspended he tried to force a move to Arsenal then suceeded in forcing a move to Barcelona.

Stevie also openly courted a move to Chelsea of all clubs and was too scared of losing his expensive salary to speak up under H&G even though Carra said the entire squad repeatedly asked him to speak out publicly against them.

but hey ho let's not let facts get in the way of things.

Has to be Henderson for me. I think he has a possible 7/8 seasons ahead of him at his best, he will thrive off off the added responsibility and the trust placed in him will raise his game to a new level.

Also other than him it is very slim pickings really.

Stevie also openly courted a move to Chelsea of all clubs and was too scared of losing his expensive salary to speak up under H&G even though Carra said the entire squad repeatedly asked him to speak out publicly against them.

but hey ho let's not let facts get in the way of things.

Yet if we are talking facts Rafa also asked him to leave the talking out against them to him and not to speak out in public

And also if we are talking facts Steven stayed and Luis didn't ultimately

Neither will be here next season though so aren't in the conversation

Yet if we are talking facts Rafa also asked him to leave the talking out against them to him and not to speak out in public

yea that's convenient isn't it.  Stevie and Rafa never got on and if Rafa told Stevie not to jump off a cliff he would have done just to spite Rafa.  and yet suddenly Rafa tells Stevie not to speak out against H&G and Stevie "reluctantly" goes along with it?  give me a f**king break.  Both Carra and Pepe said the entire squad pushed Stevie to come out and say something not only as captain of the team but as a representative of the club he loved his whole life.  and you're telling me he would have done if Rafa hadn't held him back?  Stevie never gave two shits about what Rafa said anyway.  why would he suddenly say "well I want to, but Rafa told me not to..."

Let's just call a spade a spade.  Stevie was too afraid to speak out against H&G despite every single player in the squad wanting him to do it. 

and he didn't.  End of.

yea that's convenient isn't it.  Stevie and Rafa never got on and if Rafa told Stevie not to jump off a cliff he would have done just to spite Rafa.  and yet suddenly Rafa tells Stevie not to speak out against H&G and Stevie "reluctantly" goes along with it?  give me a f**king break.  Both Carra and Pepe said the entire squad pushed Stevie to come out and say something not only as captain of the team but as a representative of the club he loved his whole life.  and you're telling me he would have done if Rafa hadn't held him back?  Stevie never gave two shits about what Rafa said anyway.  why would he suddenly say "well I want to, but Rafa told me not to..."

Let's just call a spade a spade.  Stevie was too afraid to speak out against H&G despite every single player in the squad wanting him to do it. 

and he didn't.  End of.

I'm not getting into it in this thread as it's not for this conversation

But you said facts

Rafa said he asked Steven not to speak out. That's a fact

I don't know what went on behind the scenes and neither do you.. That's just conjecture

It was a horrible time and we don't know what went on behind the scenes.

I don't know what your issue is with driving every single thread currently into slagging off Gerrard

So please give us all a break








Henderson skipper for me in the current squad

I don't know what your issue is with driving every single thread currently into slagging off Gerrard

I'm not slagging him off.  He is a club legend.  But I just find the whole idea that Stevie is some kind of martyr to be patently absurd.  He's leaving because he wants more money, that's what it comes down to.  And yet everyone pretends that isn't an issue.  And he isn't some kind of saint.  He flirted like a prostitute with Chelsea of all clubs, and he was too scared to come out and give voice to the players' concerns in a time where we came within an inch of going out of existence. 

He is one of the all time greats at the club but in terms of both quality and integrity he will always be number two to Dalglish. 

Anyway.  You're right, he's not going to be here next season he's not relevant in this thread.  The point is that he is not the leader everyone plays him up to be, either on the pitch or off of it.

Henderson is only one that can do it in this current squad so he's got to be the choice for me (don't want a new summer signing getting the job straight away). He's not afraid of speaking up (do remember him tearing into Gerrard a few weeks ago when he decided to go for something clever rather than seeing out a one goal lead) and his work rate in midfield could inspire the players around him.

The situation we're in now is a direct result of our recruitment policy, bringing in potential after potential without proven talent to guide their development. It's what I was pointing to in the Summer. There are no leaders because the majority of our players are inexperienced and the ones that aren't, are frankly sh*t. We lack a single player who would walk in to the United, City or Chelsea side and arguably only two players who would walk in any other team in last year's top seven and out of this motley crew of mediocrity we're looking for a new Gerrard, new Hyypia, new Hansen, new Souness? Henderson will most likely be made Captain and he's probably the best choice from a bad lot but the idea fills me with sadness and fear for our future.

He's leaving because he wants more money, that's what it comes down to. 

He's leaving because he wants more game time and after sounding out other top European clubs and having no takers, it leaves him with the Middle East, Australia or the States.

I do tend to agree with Flanno, but like I said for me he needs to really establish himself in the side first.. He had a really good six months but we have seen that type of six months from plenty in the past who level out and don't stay at that level.
The injury for him came at the wrong time but of he gets back and continues at the level of the 6 months last year then he certainly comes into the conversation

I'd love nothing more than in 5 years that he has 200+  apparences under his belt and is one of our leaders
Time will tell

In fairness I think you're probably right PD in practical terms. The misty eyed romantic in me just likes the idea of replacing Stevie with another kid who'll bleed red.

 

I'm here all week.....

I would think that at a bare minimum the next captain should prove that he is undroppable and essential to the starting XI.  That rules out Flanagan.  And it rules out Henderson who goes missing and hides more often than not.  The only undroppable ones are Sterling and Coutinho really.  Neither of them seems to be good captain material in my eyes.

Maybe Lallana could be a good shout.