The Dark arts, gamesmanship, and the winning mentality.

 When all said and done, despite battering Chelsea in the first leg and then coming out second best by the thickness of a Rizzla paper last night, we still lost. We still lost, they still won, and when they are picking up the trophy at Wembley nobody will remember (except perhaps some of us) how well we played. Through a variety of methods, from time wasting to putting the referee under pressure (both players and manager), from diving to stamping to strategic fouling, they managed to prevail in the end.

 Cheating b@stards? Well yes, but we have IMHO a choice between being the paragons of virtue, upholders of the beautiful game (naïve in other words) or looking at areas where we can give ourselves a better chance of winning these tight matches. We can I guess take some solace in Costa's retrospective ban (which he must surely get) but we are hardly going to be beneficiaries of that are we? Will it be left to us and Arsenal to plough a lone furrow, upholding not just the game itself but the actual "spirit" of the thing?

 I have in mind some areas in which we could put some thoughts into being more "effective", here they are in no particular order.

  Phillipe Coutinho. ; We have in our ranks a lovely little footballer, one of the finest in the league. At the moment though in comparison to similar players in terms of stature and skill (Hazard being the glaring example), he is too easy to play against. Time and again he is "fouled" and fails to exact the most he could from the situation. Many talked of Henderson being "lucky" to stay on yesterday (and he was in all honesty), but his handball was only a precarious for us because he had been booked for a "tug" on Hazard. A "tug" is always a booking if the referee sees it, and he had no choice but to see this one because the moment Henderson put his hands on the Belgian he stopped and looked at the referee. Compare and contrast in the second half when Coutinho brilliantly turned Fabregas only to be hauled back by his shorts. Our fella battled on and away from the Spaniard but to what end? If he stops it's Fabregas who is booked and is walking a tightrope. I'm not advocating that Coutinho dives here, I'm merely making the point that he says to defenders "if you foul me in any way I'm going to make sure I get you the full punishment for it". Suarez was the arch exponent of this, and with handballs in the box in particular he simply used to stop dead in his tracks and give the referee no option but to give it. If Coutinho can adopt this mind set, he'll be impossible to tackle in and around the box. He'll become a better player and we will reap the benefit.

  Emre Can when stamped on by Costa. ; Should still be laying there now if the referee hasn't sent the ugly tw@t off. Nobody saw it, but they sure would have if Emre had screamed and stayed down. It would have got quietly "referred" to the fourth official while Emre was receiving treatment, and Costa would have been sent off. Had he taken this course of action rather than jumping up and calling him a C***, (understandable and spot on accurate but it doesn't win you games) we'd all be chasing tickets for Wembley now. Once again not advocating we "invent" a foul, nor "dive", just that when we see an opponent lose his discipline and do something like that, we ensure he pays the price. Ask yourself this, what would Costa have done if Can had done it to him? What would Mourinho and Terry done, there would have been absolute f*cking uproar.

  Brendan Rodgers . How the f*** was Mourinho allowed to get into the referees ear in the tunnel without our man being in there? Come to that, how the f*** was Mourinho allowed to get into his ear in any case? Will the FA do anything about it? will they f***. Brendan should have known that Mourinho was going to jump up and down about the penalty they didn't get, and he should have been ready to go ballistic in the tunnel over OUR agenda (ie that Costa shouldn't have been on the pitch in the first place). Mourinho shouldn't have been able to get a word in sideways as our man was all over the ref making HIS points. Not knowing or not caring that the Chelsea manager was going to get in the referees ear was plain stupid and Brendan needs to wise up.


 There are more but the post is already a book (and I have a life to lead, kids etc) so I'll let it go for now.           

Chuck in the rent a mob coaching staff,please tell ne what they do, atletico under someone are almost identical in every way, although in Spain as in south America any boundaries or friendships go out the window. Players dive including ours but the constant mourinho baiting has an effect, he says with a straight face that hazard doesn't dive, we stood up to costa and showed him to be a playground bully, who actually loses his focus. It's sad that we should think about chasing the ref around and the other things that this typical mourinho team does.brendan made the mistake of being to pally with mourinho, treat the c**t with the respect he deserves ie none

At the end of the day we still lack a striker who can put the ball in the back of the net on a regular basis and who is prepared to die for the cause. Mourinho has came out of the same mould as Ferguson and is a master at getting into referees ears to get the desired result. I think it is pathetic that a club of our standing  has not bought a proven striker in this window.

Chuck in the rent a mob coaching staff,please tell ne what they do, atletico under someone are almost identical in every way, although in Spain as in south America any boundaries or friendships go out the window. Players dive including ours but the constant mourinho baiting has an effect, he says with a straight face that hazard doesn't dive, we stood up to costa and showed him to be a playground bully, who actually loses his focus. It's sad that we should think about chasing the ref around and the other things that this typical mourinho team does.

I'm not saying we should "chase the ref" as a rule mate, mate just saying that we shouldn't let them get an advantage. If they chase the ref, we should chase him too, otherwise it looks to the official as if he's messed it up.

Nothing much I can add to the OP Mick except - if you're going to get booked for stopping a player, for fucks sake make sure you've hurt him. Run your studs down his achilles; boot his calf; anything but pulling his F***ing shirt or arm. 

Agree Mick.

Many of us have said it over the years that we're too nice as a team and we've been like this for quite a while now give or take the odd exception like Suarez.

Emre Can when stamped on by Costa. ; Should still be laying there now if the referee hasn't sent the ugly tw@t off. Nobody saw it, but they sure would have if Emre had screamed and stayed down.

Reminds me of when Nani had his leg cut at Anfield but got up and hopped around.  Didn't help him then either did it.

You raise a good point - we lost the mind games as well as the football last night.  We're just not very clever at a lot of things and Chelsea do just enough to wind the opposition up to take their focus off the game.

Excellent thread bigmick - I have been thinking for a couple of years how we really need to improve our gamesmanship and become more cynical.

I still maintain that i sthe real reason we missed out on the title last season.

Dark art number four:


Strategic fouling/taking one for the team. When Ivanovic got burned on the outside by Sterling last night he didn't mess about. Pull him back, take the yellow and move on. None of this letting him get into the box, round the back or any of that stuff (infact the stuff that Fabregas was allowed to do last week by Can prior to us conceding the penalty). Equally, if you rob Chelsea of possession when they have players forward, they will always foul you in your own half before you have chance to break on them. It'll look fairly innocent, there'll be a "coming together" or someone "blocked off", but they will always stop you in your tracks. Strategic fouling is a large part of modern defensive strategy, as scoring goals when teams are "set" is extremely difficult. Annoyingly, referees are seemingly oblivious to the deliberate nature of it and often don't punish with a card. As I say, Chelsea do it all the time, in every single game they play.

   

I bang on about this sort of stuff all the time. Born winners against born mugs at times. Its the small details that cost us in these clashes with Chelsea.

Last season we were running about like silly shites to get them the ball back from the first minute at Anfield whenever the ball was not in play. We only needed a draw at that time.

This year and adding to everything you said there Mick, we decide to put Mario Balotelli, the least disciplined, hard working and aware player in our ranks in the centre of the box and ask him to look after Ivanovic; a player known for scoring winners against us and winners in big games.

Fast forward 10 minutes we have a free kick in roughly the same area. They have John Terry, Kurt Zuma,  and Ivanovic in the centre of their box.

There's your difference really.

Wish we would wise the F**k up, there's nothing worse than losing to these tw*ts, especially in games where we have played the better football!

I too have other little gripes including throwing it down the line against a team who want the ball out of play... throw it in F***ing field!  Also playing it out from the back in periods of games where it is clear we are only inviting trouble on to ourselves.

Agree think Louie took us to a new level on that score he was smarter than the average and had a pair ,we just  need to wise up.
I wish Stevie hand dinked that pr**k Costa when he was at the malarky on or off the ball just nut the c**t ,Souness would have sorted him no probs him and their backroom staff,still gutted the mornings no made me feel any better

Problem is the refs are only human.

When you have the likes of Mourinho or Ferguson ready to come down on your mistakes to the press you are more likely to give them the decisions - it's as simple as that.

The manager needs to be putting more pressure on the ref.

Dark art number five:

Managing the referee.

At the end of the second period of extra time last night there was one minute added on. This after they'd been wasting time ever since they'd scored. Wasting time by taking ages over every set piece, wasting time by going to pick the ball up for a throw in but "inadvertently" see it bounce off their toes and run twenty yards away (I love that one). How come there was only one minute? Because we weren't in the referees ear enough. Every time they were f***ing about Stevie should have been in Olivers ear "that's another thirty seconds right there ref, don't forget to add it on at the end". Would we have got all the time which was wasted? No. Would we have got more than 1 minute? Definitely. If we'd scored the goal and wasted time, how much time would have been added on at the end of extra time? Precisely.   

Dark art number six:

targeting players who are on a card.

Just occasionally Chelsea have one of their own players sent off (it should have happened to Costa last night, it does happen occasionally). At that point, they will ruthlessly target anyone on the opposition who has a card and surround the referee if that player commits a foul. For a while they forget about trying to score, they solely base their strategy on "evening up" the numbers. They had someone sent off in the league this year at home (can't remember the detail sorry) and it took them only a few minutes to get the red the other way.

Even when the numbers are even, they will methodically target anyone who is on a card. they'll surround the ref and ask him why he's not giving that player the second yellow if he commits a foul, they'll take him on in possession to try and draw one. When you add together the diving and histrionics to get the initial foul carded, along with the co-ordinated and choreographed bullying of players and stamping of feet by the coaching staff, it puts the referee under immense pressure. Under these circumstances, while the referee is standing up to it he is your friend. He not only needs to hear your concerns too in order to balance things up, but he needs to know you at least are on his side with a few "let the man referee the f***ing game" rants at their players. 

The irony in in the stamp is can you imagine the feeding frenzy the media would be having this morning if it was Suarez and he was still playing for us? They'd be calling for a twelve month ban. Barely a peep though from them when it's Costa.

On the wider point though, it's all part of the one failing Rodgers has as a manager (other than chronic foot in mouth syndrome). He's a very astute and adept tactician, seems to be a very good man-manager when he chooses to be so, but he's a principled man who will not sacrifice those principles for the greater good. The situation with Balotelli is a perfect example of this. Forget who bought him and whether he wanted him at the club or not, the fact is he's here and doesn't fit in to our system and where any other manager would be prepared to change the system to suit the player, he wants the player to change to suit our system to the determent to all involved.

Look at Chelsea in the first leg, they played a defensive game, draw the tie, bring it back to their ground and play expansive, attacking football. Why? Because for Mourinho winning is more important than his principles. At the end of the day that's why his CV is packed with trophies and Brendan's isn't.

The irony in in the stamp is can you imagine the feeding frenzy the media would be having this morning if it was Suarez and he was still playing for us? They'd be calling for a twelve month ban. Barely a peep though from them when it's Costa.

On the wider point though, it's all part of the one failing Rodgers has as a manager (other than chronic foot in mouth syndrome). He's a very astute and adept tactician, seems to be a very good man-manager when he chooses to be so, but he's a principled man who will not sacrifice those principles for the greater good. The situation with Balotelli is a perfect example of this. Forget who bought him and whether he wanted him at the club or not, the fact is he's here and doesn't fit in to our system and where any other manager would be prepared to change the system to suit the player, he wants the player to change to suit our system to the determent to all involved.

Look at Chelsea in the first leg, they played a defensive game, draw the tie, bring it back to their ground and play expansive, attacking football. Why? Because for Mourinho winning is more important than his principles. At the end of the day that's why his CV is packed with trophies and Brendan's isn't.

they'd of wanted him shot

Strategic fouling/taking one for the team.  When Ivanovic got burned on the outside by Sterling last night he didn't mess about. Pull him back, take the yellow and move on. None of this letting him get into the box, round the back or any of that stuff (infact the stuff that Fabregas was allowed to do last week by Can prior to us conceding the penalty). Equally, if you rob Chelsea of possession when they have players forward, they will  always  foul you in your own half before you have chance to break on them. It'll look fairly innocent, there'll be a "coming together" or someone "blocked off", but they will always stop you in your tracks. Strategic fouling is a large part of modern defensive strategy, as scoring goals when teams are "set" is extremely difficult. Annoyingly, referees are seemingly oblivious to the deliberate nature of it and often don't punish with a card. As I say, Chelsea do it all the time, in every single game they play.

I think we do some of that. Lucas has been on the receiving end of a yellow card  for strategic fouling, but you're right, not enough. The issue is, Chelsea really have made it into an art form. It's almost second nature to them under that piece of sh1t Mourinho. They rarely give away fouls in or around their penalty area (something we're quite naive about and do so regularly - which drives me f***ing nuts given how poor we are in defending set pieces) but instead get 10 men behind the ball, but they are the masters of little tugs, trips, blocks in opposition area.

I am of the opinion it's something we could learn from and do a bit more work on, because we do come across as naive most of the time. As much as we can work on our crisp passing and fluidity in the team, we don't have enough steel. Players like Can, Hendo and Lucas could be far more subtle in their methods.

Having said that, we created 3 clear cut chances last night that a goods triker would have put away, and all of Chelsea's "dark arts" would have come to nothing. Ifs and buts Im guess...

The irony in in the stamp is can you imagine the feeding frenzy the media would be having this morning if it was Suarez and he was still playing for us? They'd be calling for a twelve month ban. Barely a peep though from them when it's Costa.

On the wider point though, it's all part of the one failing Rodgers has as a manager (other than chronic foot in mouth syndrome). He's a very astute and adept tactician, seems to be a very good man-manager when he chooses to be so, but he's a principled man who will not sacrifice those principles for the greater good. The situation with Balotelli is a perfect example of this. Forget who bought him and whether he wanted him at the club or not, the fact is he's here and doesn't fit in to our system and where any other manager would be prepared to change the system to suit the player, he wants the player to change to suit our system to the determent to all involved.

Look at Chelsea in the first leg, they played a defensive game, draw the tie, bring it back to their ground and play expansive, attacking football. Why? Because for Mourinho winning is more important than his principles. At the end of the day that's why his CV is packed with trophies and Brendan's isn't.

I'm not disputing Mourinho's single-mindedness nor the fact he is an extremely effective manager (probably the most effective there is IMHO). I'm not even denying that Brendan could improve in the regard of being "nastier". The real reason though that Mourinho's cv is packed with trophies and Brendan's isn't, is because by and large Mourinho has managed clubs who have a greater opportunity to win trophies. Simple as that really.

You should get a job at Anfield Mick , Dark Arts Coach ,on a Friday 12- 3  tell Brendan to take a halfy

yes we need to get smarter but at the same time I don't want us to become as cynical and c*&tish as Chelsea, I genuinely despise that team and its t&*t of a manager.

I disagree. I saw Star Wars, forever will the darkside dominate your destiny. I don't want to crowd the ref, make strategic fouling a priority, 'get nasty'. I think if we concentrate on trying to create chances then we will be better off. Public opinion will go with us too. Look how hard Madrid have tried to get their reputation back after Mourinho left. Yes they still outspend the opposition but at least they don't spunk the cash on turning footballers into cage fighters. No a winning mentality is not synonymous with the dark arts.

Totally agree. As a team we're not smart enough, we get away with it against the smaller teams but as soon as we come up against the top teams (especially in a two legged tie) it's brutally exposed. There's a reason why we put in so many 'good' performances against the big teams but rarely come away with three points.

I`d have love to hear Shanks take on this,and how he would address the situation a master of so many things in football,  is whats in front of us now so different from all those years ago 

Good thread. Think you need proper cu*ts on your team to execute these "tactics". Chelsea have full of them and still adding even more. King Kenny had this in mind and signed some cheeky bas**rds in Adam, Carroll and Suarez. Rodgers replaced them with nice fellas like Allen, Borini or Lambert. We´re quiet unballanced in this department now.

I'm not saying we should "chase the ref" as a rule mate, mate just saying that we shouldn't let them get an advantage. If they chase the ref, we should chase him too, otherwise it looks to the official as if he's messed it up.

totally agree, we are far too nice, imagine souness, dalglish etc against those tw*ts

Dark art number five:

Managing the referee.

At the end of the second period of extra time last night there was one minute added on. This after they'd been wasting time ever since they'd scored. Wasting time by taking ages over every set piece, wasting time by going to pick the ball up for a throw in but "inadvertently" see it bounce off their toes and run twenty yards away (I love that one). How come there was only one minute? Because we weren't in the referees ear enough. Every time they were f***ing about Stevie should have been in Olivers ear "that's another thirty seconds right there ref, don't forget to add it on at the end". Would we have got all the time which was wasted? No. Would we have got more than 1 minute? Definitely. If we'd scored the goal and wasted time, how much time would have been added on at the end of extra time? Precisely.   

The lads on Anfield Wrap were talking about this the other week Mick and how much Hendo has does this.

This Starts from the top and I'm not sure Brendan has it in his locker...

Hendo is trying but he is cutting a lonesome figure

I'm not disputing Mourinho's single-mindedness nor the fact he is an extremely effective manager (probably the most effective there is IMHO). I'm not even denying that Brendan could improve in the regard of being "nastier". The real reason though that Mourinho's cv is packed with trophies and Brendan's isn't, is because by and large Mourinho has managed clubs who have a greater opportunity to win trophies. Simple as that really.

Sorry mate, but being at clubs with greater opportunities doesn't mean you take them. Moyes at United or Pellegrini at Real, for example. Mourinho is a successful manager precisely because his attitude is win at all costs. The above at their respective teams did not have that same attitude and so where unsuccessful. People in the papers and the media never talk about the dark arts of Mourinho's teams, they talk only of their success. We should be prepared to adopt an identical attitude because winning the Fair Play awards doesn't put trophies in the cabinet. The question is whether Brendan is willing to sacrifice his principles in order to do so?

Sorry mate, but being at clubs with greater opportunities doesn't mean you take them. Moyes at United or Pellegrini at Real, for example. Mourinho is a successful manager precisely because his attitude is win at all costs. The above at their respective teams did not have that same attitude and so where unsuccessful. People in the papers and the media never talk about the dark arts of Mourinho's teams, they talk only of their success. We should be prepared to adopt an identical attitude because winning the Fair Play awards doesn't put trophies in the cabinet. The question is whether Brendan is willing to sacrifice his principles in order to do so?

It's just that when we do , we get mocked, pilloried and subjugated as being atypical, hard done to whinny Scousers. Rafa tried and had to defend himself at every turn.

Well, dare I say it, he did at home

All good points here, the thing about Mourinho and his team is that it's so ingrained in his players its now second nature.

A great example of this was right after they had scored, if you watch the Chelsea substitutes whenever the ball goes off near them, they did their absolute best to slow the ball coming back, even by a second or two. At one point Drogba literally throws the ball away from Can as he's coming to get it for a throw. That's what years of playing for Mourinho does for you.

Said it time and time again, when it comes to timekeeping, it should not be the referees job.  Independent timekeeper's have long been called for, stopping the clock everytime the ball goes out of play, it makes time wasting pointless.

I always actively stated I don't like our players diving, let alone opposition players.  But, like other forms of players' gamesmanship, this is always put at the referees door.  Why?  Is it too much to ask players to stop cheating?  If we judge by members from their ranks, as often heard on 606 & MOTD, yes it is too much.  They simply condone it or they give trot out the most condescending and asinine phrase in modern football, 'You've never played the game'.

On a by the by, when did running or backing into an opposition player, when you have the ball, become a free kick for you and even a booking for you opponent standing his ground.

Maureen's been a kunt for years, first notice of his win at all costs was when his cheating diving Porto side won the CL, his methods continue and will always be part of his philosophy to winning,

Should our Brendan follow suit,? No not for me, he will have seen at first hand the special KUNTS way of gaining any advantage including bending refs ears just like that other kunt we all loved to hate, you might remember him, he drank lots of wine and worked at a 'ol toilet' somewhere in the northwest,
Anyhoo,

are we becoming the Arsenal of the north ?
for years we've had real strong headed players in our midst but in recent years this type of player has been missing,

The game itself has been reduced to something akin to outside netball where almost any sort of contact is a potential foul,

as for mind games and the like the likes of Maureen and slur kunt before him the underhand tactics used will alway bring contentious issues, unfortunately it's become part of the modern game, the likes of ourselves and to a certain extent Arsenal try and play as fair as possible, most of the time !



Do our players need to be more savvy, hell yes , they do but that only comes thru experience, Coutinho, Can, etc are only kids and will become wiser as time goes by,

I'm old school , I can see why Can and Skirtle acted like they did, yes it could have backfired had Costa been nutted, but he would think twice next time , we may have lost a player thru a red card that's just the way it is, I'd rather have it that way rather than two soft yellows for tugging shirts or celebrating a goal.

I would hate to see LFC stoop to the levels of those cheating chav bas**rds, if it meant we miss out on the odd Wembley appearance then fine, they may have their piece of silverware , but we will still have our pride,

Anyhoo, Nigel cough and his Blades will put them to the sword on March 1st, hopefully by some player taking a dive in the penalty box....


We all have dreams, don't we ?






YNWA

Put in a call to Hogwarts for a Defense Against The Dark Arts tutor for the lads

A winning mentality should be instilled by the manager, very simple.

A winning mentality should be instilled by the manager, very simple.

But given we've only won one trophy in the last 8 years or whatever it is Shabs, under four different managers (the King being the exception to the rule), perhaps it's not as simple as that.

Said it time and time again, when it comes to timekeeping, it should not be the referees job.  Independent timekeeper's have long been called for, stopping the clock everytime the ball goes out of play, it makes time wasting pointless.

http://www.soccerbythenumbers.com/2011/05/how-much-football-is-there-in-match.html

http://www.soccerbythenumbers.com/2011/05/how-much-football-is-there-in-match.html

It is something I'm very aware of and, for me, would be far better for the game than goal line technology or video reffing.

Said it time and time again, when it comes to timekeeping, it should not be the referees job.  Independent timekeeper's have long been called for, stopping the clock everytime the ball goes out of play, it makes time wasting pointless.

Wasting actual seconds is only a part of it though mate. Notice how Mourinho and his herd of peasants with bling bling resort to time wasting and deliberate fouling as a tactic from kick off or start of second half in some games? It's not to waste time in most cases, but to actually disrupt the flow of play and frustrate opponents. The scummy sh1ts do it to annoy the sh1t out of opposition more than waste seconds.

This is the real reason why I find Mourinho and Chelsea under him an absolutely abhorrent and despicable group of excuses of human beings. They succeed and thrive through sucking the life, soul and energy out of everyone else around them. Only other naturally occurring organisms that live that way cancers and viruses. As with all things nature, I'm sure there will be a cure for these kunts as well.

I do agree overall however that we need more steel in defence and midfield, and we need to wise up. Occasionally eating a yellow card to prevent a clear goal scoring opportunity is acceptable, but building a philisophy around "dark arts" like Chelsea is not something I want to be associated with. But, I prefer to focus a lot more on finishing from our midfielders, defence, winning mentality and attacking style of football.

Well it gets more farcical because the League Cup has different rules to the League. If the referee didn't see the incident (stamping) then the FA refer it back to him to look at footage and make a decision. In the League it's an independent [of the match] three man panel. Like the league, if he did see it and chose not to do anything about it, they're powerless to do anything.

The problem with all of this lies with the laws of the game. We've had extensive TV footage of football matches for twenty odd years now and the laws of the game are still lagging behind and refuse to embrace technology. The rule book needs re-writing for a modern age. Only then will cheating be less prevalent than it is now.

Well it gets more farcical because the League Cup has different rules to the League. If the referee didn't see the incident (stamping) then the FA refer it back to him to look at footage and make a decision. In the League it's an independent [of the match] three man panel. Like the league, if he did see it and chose not to do anything about it, they're powerless to do anything. The problem with all of this lies with the laws of the game. We've had extensive TV footage of football matches for twenty odd years now and the laws of the game are still lagging behind and refuse to embrace technology. The rule book needs re-writing for a modern age. Only then will cheating be less prevalent than it is now.

How ridicilous. The only silver lining is that the ref wasn't taking much sh*t from Chelsea, especially Costa's play-acting. If this is the scenario we find ourselves in, it's only a question of whether the ref saw it or not correct? If so, I'd hope he would brandish a retrospective red card...is that a realistic scenario?

They way Chelsea are and the ethos that comes with them is a hard nut to crack no matter what you do ,as someone else said its a trait of all there players its instilled early doors and worst of all its given a free hand by all the media and referee`s alike, the latter being the biggest problem how many times did the ref point to his watch acknowledging time wasting and still added F**k all on.
I noticed Drogba throwing the ball away,  any other time they warm up at the other end hes been told to go down there and cause mischief seeing if our kids will bite,
 if Can had got into a bit of verbals when he threw the ball away , it could all have kicked off and thats another point intimidating our younger players,if nothing else they should have learned a bit about themselves also about what makes these so called world class players tick.
Now I've got a lot of time for Hazzard very hard guy to mark very nippy yet hes down at the slightest touch milking it ,Oscar ,Ramieres ,the same week in week out its like they've set the standard for whats acceptable for a foul for Chelsea you put a red shirt on and you get F**k all for the same offence, Louie was  the prime example thumped left right and centre no foul given or indeed penalty slated by all and sundry  the slow mo then  shows he has been fouled and the pundits have made a complete James of it along with the referee and we are left with the hole in the doughnut ,doesn't do LFC any good come the end of the season points make prizes how many of those are lost to referee`s F***ing up Raheems onside goal at City last season a starter for 10 ,does my box in,we are to quiet  IMO we want to shout and bawl a hell of a lot more Terry and Maureen are primed ready to jump on the slightest thing we moan instead of getting in the refs  faces ,if its not Terry its Fabricas not him Hazzard ,not him Cahill they all have a pop we have Stevie and Jordan and Skirtel ,I wish Sakho was in there hes a big lad know what I mean very handy,your fighting tooth a nail with these bas**rds on every call you better believe it
I suppose it could come with age John Obe arguing a call from a ref or big Ivanovic arguing his case is  listened to its rattled the ref cause theres about 4 round him , Costa goes through Can he moans on his own no back up refs not taking it from a young boy even although hes right and Can gets the "I'm the referee line",
I'm still fuming now that these tw*ts went  through  ,hopefully lessons will have been  learnt last night,cant wait for our next encounter.


YNWA

How ridicilous. The only silver lining is that the ref wasn't taking much sh*t from Chelsea, especially Costa's play-acting. If this is the scenario we find ourselves in, it's only a question of whether the ref saw it or not correct? If so, I'd hope he would brandish a retrospective red card...is that a realistic scenario?

In fairness to the situation, the referee got every major decision wrong. Both teams could have ended up with players sent off. But more's the reason to have someone watching the game on a monitor who cannot be influenced by players surrounding them or managers accosting them in the tunnel, someone who can radio to the referee and bring his attention to incidents that have been missed. The Instant Replay was invented in 1955. Sixty years later it's still not being used by match officials.

They way Chelsea are and the ethos that comes with them is a hard nut to crack no matter what you do ,as someone else said its a trait of all there players its instilled early doors and worst of all its given a free hand by all the media and referee`s alike, the latter being the biggest problem how many times did the ref point to his watch acknowledging time wasting and still added f**k all on.
I noticed Drogba throwing the ball away,  any other time they warm up at the other end hes been told to go down there and cause mischief seeing if our kids will bite,
 if Can had got into a bit of verbals when he threw the ball away , it could all have kicked off and thats another point intimidating our younger players,if nothing else they should have learned a bit about themselves also about what makes these so called world class players tick.
Now I've got a lot of time for Hazzard very hard guy to mark very nippy yet hes down at the slightest touch milking it ,Oscar ,Ramieres ,the same week in week out its like they've set the standard for whats acceptable for a foul for Chelsea you put a red shirt on and you get f**k all for the same offence, Louie was  the prime example thumped left right and centre no foul given or indeed penalty slated by all and sundry  the slow mo then  shows he has been fouled and the pundits have made a complete James of it along with the referee and we are left with the hole in the doughnut ,doesn't do LFC any good come the end of the season points make prizes how many of those are lost to referee`s f**king up Raheems onside goal at City last season a starter for 10 ,does my box in,we are to quiet  IMO we want to shout and bawl a hell of a lot more Terry and Maureen are primed ready to jump on the slightest thing we moan instead of getting in the refs  faces ,if its not Terry its Fabricas not him Hazzard ,not him Cahill they all have a pop we have Stevie and Jordan and Skirtel ,I wish Sakho was in there hes a big lad know what I mean very handy,your fighting tooth a nail with these bas**rds on every call you better believe it
I suppose it could come with age John Obe arguing a call from a ref or big Ivanovic arguing his case is  listened to its rattled the ref cause theres about 4 round him , Costa goes through Can he moans on his own no back up refs not taking it from a young boy even although hes right and Can gets the "I'm the referee line",
I'm still fuming now that these tw*ts went  through  ,hopefully lessons will have been  learnt last night,cant wait for our next encounter.


YNWA

Mate, I think I get the gist of your post, but you're either angry to the point steam coming out of your ears, or you've poped 5 pills and you're absolutely buzzing. The amount of punctuation you've missed would keep the population of Essex going for years...

Mate, I think I get the gist of your post, but you're either angry to the point steam coming out of your ears, or you've poped 5 pills and you're absolutely buzzing. The amount of punctuation you've missed would keep the population of Essex going for years...

Cheers mate its the Stella

But given we've only won one trophy in the last 8 years or whatever it is Shabs, under four different managers (the King being the exception to the rule), perhaps it's not as simple as that.

I think it is mate, you install a winning manager with trophies to his name & that will in itself instill into the players, why was Shankly,Paisley,Fagan,Kenny,Houllier,Rafa,Fergie,Jose,Guardiola,Ancelloti etc so successful?.

The above made players twice what they were & in return those players would reward their manager with results.

Winning starts from the top of the club.

made players twice what they were & in return those players would reward their manager with results.

Brendan/Suarez!

They way Chelsea are and the ethos that comes with them is a hard nut to crack no matter what you do ,as someone else said its a trait of all there players its instilled early doors and worst of all its given a free hand by all the media and referee`s alike, the latter being the biggest problem how many times did the ref point to his watch acknowledging time wasting and still added f**k all on.
I noticed Drogba throwing the ball away,  any other time they warm up at the other end hes been told to go down there and cause mischief seeing if our kids will bite,
 if Can had got into a bit of verbals when he threw the ball away , it could all have kicked off and thats another point intimidating our younger players,if nothing else they should have learned a bit about themselves also about what makes these so called world class players tick.
Now I've got a lot of time for Hazzard very hard guy to mark very nippy yet hes down at the slightest touch milking it ,Oscar ,Ramieres ,the same week in week out its like they've set the standard for whats acceptable for a foul for Chelsea you put a red shirt on and you get f**k all for the same offence, Louie was  the prime example thumped left right and centre no foul given or indeed penalty slated by all and sundry  the slow mo then  shows he has been fouled and the pundits have made a complete James of it along with the referee and we are left with the hole in the doughnut ,doesn't do LFC any good come the end of the season points make prizes how many of those are lost to referee`s f**king up Raheems onside goal at City last season a starter for 10 ,does my box in,we are to quiet  IMO we want to shout and bawl a hell of a lot more Terry and Maureen are primed ready to jump on the slightest thing we moan instead of getting in the refs  faces ,if its not Terry its Fabricas not him Hazzard ,not him Cahill they all have a pop we have Stevie and Jordan and Skirtel ,I wish Sakho was in there hes a big lad know what I mean very handy,your fighting tooth a nail with these bas**rds on every call you better believe it
I suppose it could come with age John Obe arguing a call from a ref or big Ivanovic arguing his case is  listened to its rattled the ref cause theres about 4 round him , Costa goes through Can he moans on his own no back up refs not taking it from a young boy even although hes right and Can gets the "I'm the referee line",
I'm still fuming now that these tw*ts went  through  ,hopefully lessons will have been  learnt last night,cant wait for our next encounter.


YNWA

I have always opposed interrogation of the match officials. Has always been the case with teams managed by Mourinho. He simply has little time for sportsmanship - it's win at whatever cost, and that's why he's as successful a manager as he is. What was Maureen doing Tuesday evening? Talking to the match official in the tunnel at half time, talking to the fourth official all throughout the match. You'll never see Brendan do that, but then that's what I'd expect from a young up and coming manager who has it all to learn. By that, I'd expect him to be the role model for our players and you can see the honesty in their game. Brendan does not harass the match officials, so our players will inevitably follow suit.

The old spark and mourinho, two peas in a pod for this sh*te.

What exactly is the reason why the FA can't bring in a ruling concerning officials to limit the harassment they get off the pitch?

Apart from their ineptitude of course.

Its such a pity that the FA cant order matches to replayed due to missed incidents like costa. If he had been sent off then (which is what the violent conduct charge amounts to) then the course of the match could have changed...

It will never happen ... but imagine if this video review panel actually watched the game live, and were able to come to decisions at say half and full time ....

Its such a pity that the FA cant order matches to replayed due to missed incidents like costa. If he had been sent off then (which is what the violent conduct charge amounts to) then the course of the match could have changed...

It will never happen ... but imagine if this video review panel actually watched the game live, and were able to come to decisions at say half and full time ....

To be fair we had Suarez bite Ivanovic in the 2-2 at Anfield, nothing happened til after the match and Luis then went on to score the equalizer in the 90-odd minute...

Im just glad Costa got charged as our player was charged...thats all I wanted post match!

We must be careful not to look like hypocrites... Suarez was a little f**ker, but he was our little f**ker

Guarantee Mourinho is telling Hazard and Oscar and Costa in training that if they feel the slightest contact they need to go down.

Do I want Brendan coaching like that, no I don't, but I do think he needs to let guys like Coutinho and Sterling, etc... know that if they are getting bulllied...pushed, tugged, kicked, etc... they need to start going down to make light of it. What they can't do is turn into a Hazard where they are going down everytime they are remotely brushed against.

As for replay. I don't see why instant replay can't be used in a quick manner to determine if something heinous has been done. The amount of time a player is usually on the ground should be more than enough for a replay official to take a look and determine if there was intent, malice, etc.....

You don't want to be reviewing every single foul, but I'd think intelligent people could be trusted to determine when it was acceptable (like when the referee doesn't see it).

The other idea would be to add more officials on the sideline, add another referee to the game (one for each half for instance) and to give coaches a "challenge" where they can have an incident looked at. Give them one per game so that the game isn't slowed down.

In the NFL, coaches get 2 challenges to use during the game if they think a call was missed. There are guidlines on what can be challenged and it works pretty well.

The old spark and mourinho, two peas in a pod for this sh*te.

What exactly is the reason why the FA can't bring in a ruling concerning officials to limit the harassment they get off the pitch?

Apart from their ineptitude of course.

I meant soak. Bloody phone.

No one wants us to turn in to a nasty team of fouling, cheating bas**rds but until officials wake up to it, we either allow ourselves to continue being taken advantage of or we start playing teams like Chelsea at their own game and play it better than they do. I don't see any dishonour in giving a cheat a taste of their own medicine.

The OP makes some very good points.

But we have to ask ourselves - did we really fall in love with a club - and a game - only for it to be seen as essential for success to be nasty?

That's not the game, or the club, we fell in love with.

No one wants us to turn in to a nasty team of fouling, cheating bas**rds but until officials wake up to it, we either allow ourselves to continue being taken advantage of or we start playing teams like Chelsea at their own game and play it better than they do. I don't see any dishonour in giving a cheat a taste of their own medicine.

And this sums it up quite nicely. We don't have to turn into a team of absolute cheating bas**rds like the plastics, but play them at their own game, when it's needed.

Put in a call to Hogwarts for a Defense Against The Dark Arts tutor for the lads

Lord Voldemort our next signing then , fight fire with fire i say .

Sturridge gets it. First tackle on him today and he went down like he'd been shot. Probably while he was at Chelsea where he learnt it. Sterling tries it but doesn't do it right. Hazard (the little f*****) is genius at it, gets a foul every time. I don't want Hazard like diving, but I DO want Coutinho in particular to actually go down when he's fouled.

Sturridge gets it. First tackle on him today and he went down like he'd been shot. Probably while he was at Chelsea where he learnt it. Sterling tries it but doesn't do it right. Hazard (the little f*****) is genius at it, gets a foul every time. I don't want Hazard like diving, but I DO want Coutinho in particular to actually go down when he's fouled.

Coutinho refuses to dive , he's a tough guy.

Win by any means possible. The role of honour only states who won what, not how they won it.
Take two of UTDs Fa cup wins, Spurs had a ball pulled back from behind the goal line by the keeper, but the ref didn't see it. The match ended 0-0, Utd won the replay, and went on to win the cup. In Kenny's first game back in charge, Berbatov dived and won a penalty, Utd won 1-0, and went on to cup again.

Cheaters do prosper, and as long as people can get away with it they will do it. If it wins us the game, then looking for free-kicks and penalties has to be done, we just needcti get better at it.

How about trash talking? Is it a dark art? First heard it in the NBA.

How about trash talking? Is it a dark art? First heard it in the NBA.

I would have proposed 'sledging' but there's just too many languages within the EPL and I suspect many remarks wouldn't translate.

Maybe even a Robbie Savage type of player getting on your nerves and disrupting your play. So much so, that you forget about chasing the ball and want to chase and kick lumps out of the ku*t whose calling you out.

I would have proposed 'sledging' but there's just too many languages within the EPL and I suspect many remarks wouldn't translate.

Maybe even a Robbie Savage type of player getting on your nerves and disrupting your play. So much so, that you forget about chasing the ball and want to chase and kick lumps out of the ku*t whose calling you out.
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If we dont get one of these type of players,  days like Tuesday will happen again and again Groundhog f***in football 

Adding players who are dirty wouldn't be a step in the right direction for me, more like the type of tactic a Stoke type team would do.
We have the Skrtel wrestling octopus arms (might be into witchcraft as well) and Lucas voodoo Leiva yellow card machine plus Emre Can will get stuck in.

Hazard has had 25 yellow cards awarded against 25 individual players playing against him....says it all really , yet commentators & pundits laud him at every opportunity,
Its obvious that under Maureen Hazard has been instructed to go to ground at every opportunity even if contact is minimal,

I'd love to see how many yellow cards were awarded before Hazard played under Maureen,

Hazard by name, hazard by nature it seems , with a lot of influence from Maureen of course.



YNWA