Roberto Firmino Player Thread (F)

Needs a few games on the bench to 're focus.

Absolute shocker tonight possibly his worst performance for us yet.

Must be dropped for the next game.

At least we can rest assured Barcelona won't come in for this Brazilian

At least we can rest assured Barcelona won't come in for this Brazilian

  Not on tonights performance anyway. I cannot think of a single thing he did which came off.

Not on tonights performance anyway. I cannot think of a single thing he did which came off.

Played a couple of decent balls over to Sturridge, made 1 good run (which he then played a poor ball across for Salah). That's about it, and that all happened within about 5minutes as the game was near the end.

Overall though, that was abysmal from him, even his work rate which regardless of how well he is playing with the ball, is usually consistent but even that wasn't good enough tonight, was giving away cheap fouls too.

Certainly not the lads best performance!

Firmino is a player who has it all. He has ability in abundance (with huge potential too) and bags and bags of luck. All the best players are lucky!

He reads the game beautifully, and is an enormous part of everything good that we do. When he's on his game, he scores amazing goals, and gets those tap ins we all love to see. When he's not with it at all, a passenger, wasteful, unproductive, he's magnificently able to ensure that Salah and Mane are getting more of the ball. See, when he's poor, he's poor on purpose. It's quite brilliant. You get to notice his team mates more!

He draws away the attention of the attacking three, and by running around lots and lots, he draws out the defenders, confuses them even, and opens up the space for others. Some times he appears to do more without the ball than with the ball. You really have to take time to analyse his game to get the best out of him. Criticism is often that he doesn't do enough, goes missing, or lacks the striker's finish. But, he's not a striker see. He's not even a false nine. He's a Firmino. One of a kind. Look at his movement, and his running, his sprints, his touches, his step overs, his shot ratio, it's incredible. It's not about goals for Firmino. Even when you might think goals are important! It's about what he could do. Just imagine.

He's a tactical dream. He plays up front "as a striker" but we can always excuse anything he does, because tactically, he probably wasn't supposed to do it. Klopp doesn't play him for the reasons that one might normally expect a manager to play a player. His expectations are on another level. It's what he doesn't do, that distinguishes him from what other player can do.

And that's where the luck come's in. See, firstly he's lucky that he is Brazilian. That in itself means he is brilliant and has incredible potential. Secondly, he's lucky that Coutinho stayed. Because having a Brazlian team mate of the Coutinho-class just means Firmino has to play. Then there's Klopp. What luck! See, Klopp will always be able to see what Firmino offers, even when he offered nothing. He's also lucky to have a fan base that understand him so well. We don't mind when our only proper Striker is on the bench and Firmino has his place. We understand. We know... that Firmino could have one of those incredible games every so often, and that justifies his place. Other fans may see weaknesses, we do not. Other fans may be surprised that we play Firmino as a striker even though his goal ratio is poor, but we do not. We can see exactly why he plays.

That luck should see him through endless matches. That luck will carve him out a Suarez-Liverpool-career. Heralded forever.

Ability in abundance. Huge potential. Bags of luck. Our Firmino.

He's better than what he showed tonight. But so are a few of our other players. None of our front 3 showered themselves in glory.

Bobby Heskey, no top team can carry a centre forward who hardly ever scores, misses sitters and can't control a bag of cement.

If we want someone who can run around a lot, stick Mo Farrah up front .

Bobby Heskey, no top team can carry a centre forward who hardly ever scores, misses sitters and can't control a bag of cement.

If we want someone who can run around a lot, stick Mo Farrah up front .

Thing is mate - wee Mo F is an endurance man.

He's no gonna catch our wee Mo or Sadio the keeper slayer........

Bobby Heskey, no top team can carry a centre forward who hardly ever scores, misses sitters and can't control a bag of cement.

If we want someone who can run around a lot, stick Mo Farrah up front .

Mick "spoon man" finally says what he thinks.

Bobby has some of the finest first touches you'll ever see. He plucks the ball out of crazy heights all the time with tremendous ease, again Mick total bollocks. There are loads of examples of these as anyone who would treat the lad fairly will attest to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkJD7CInMzA

Thing is mate - wee Mo F is an endurance man.

He's no gonna catch our wee Mo or Sadio the keeper slayer........

Haha I forgot those recent stats which showed Bobby is an Olympic sprinter to go with his other talents!

Mick "spoon man" finally says what he thinks.

Bobby has some of the finest first touches you'll ever see. He plucks the ball out of crazy heights all the time with tremendous ease, again Mick total bollocks. There are loads of examples of these as anyone who would treat the lad fairly will attest to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkJD7CInMzA

You can pick "best ofs" for every player mate . What about last night?

Mick "spoon man" finally says what he thinks.

Bobby has some of the finest first touches you'll ever see. He plucks the ball out of crazy heights all the time with tremendous ease, again Mick total bollocks. There are loads of examples of these as anyone who would treat the lad fairly will attest to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkJD7CInMzA

Not getting involved in the rest of it Luke but I will say (in fact I did earlier in Danny's thread ) Bobby's touch veers from the sublime to the ridiculous.

I'm a big fan of the lad but I find it amazing how he can go from the above to a total shocker of a touch in 5 mins....

Just saying so I'm consistent like

You can pick "best ofs" for every player mate . What about last night?

Loads of good first touches last night too Mick, it's sad to see you have it in for a player so badly. It was all over the match thread last night, it's all over the Sturridge thread and it's finally here in black and white.

At least we don't have to contend with the "I rate Bobby, but" stuff now and we can move on to discussing things without veils.

Not getting involved in the rest of it Luke but I will say (in fact I did earlier in Danny's thread ) Bobby's touch veers from the sublime to the ridiculous.

I'm a big fan of the lad but I find it amazing how he can go from the above to a total shocker of a touch in 5 mins....

Just saying so I'm consistent like

Oh I agree mate, he can have a poor touch too, not denying that but pretending he "can't trap a bag of cement" is what I took issue with because it's total bollocks.

Loads of good first touches last night too Mick, it's sad to see you have it in for a player so badly. It was all over the match thread last night, it's all over the Sturridge thread and it's finally here in black and white.

At least we don't have to contend with the "I rate Bobby, but" stuff now and we can move on to discussing things without veils.

  Luke I don't "have it in" for any Liverpool player, check out the Simon Mignolet thread if you want to see what that looks like. What I "have it in" for is when we continually talk bollocks about a player, praise him up when it isn't warrented and then don't criticise him when it is. When Bobby misses a chance he's "unlucky" like with the header last night (which was a sitter lets be honest), when anybody else misses a chance it's a disaster.

He was absolutely terrible last night mate, not an "off day" or a dip, he was a total disaster. He contributed nothing whatsoever positive aside from running around a bit (not a lot as he usually does). The fact that you STILL claim that he had "loads of good touches" and then suggest it's ME who has an agenda  . You are class mate, you just couldn't make it up.

BTW I like your Solanke suggestion, I wouldn't be averse to that. ANYBODY would be an improvement on the Bobby Heskey of last night, although obviously I accept that he doesn't always play like that.

Just to be clear as well I DO rate Firmino as a footballer. He's very good in the false 9 when we play against teams who want to attack us, works a treat. Against sitters though I think you need a proper number 9, something which he isn't. That doesn't mean I've got an "agenda", it's just my opinion. Bobby should be treated the same as anyone esle. When he plays well he should be in the team, when he plays like he did last night he should be dropped. Simple really. 

Luke I don't "have it in" for any Liverpool player, check out the Simon Mignolet thread if you want to see what that looks like. What I "have it in" for is when we continually talk bollocks about a player, praise him up when it isn't warrented and then don't criticise him when it is. When Bobby misses a chance he's "unlucky" like with the header last night (which was a sitter lets be honest), when anybody else misses a chance it's a disaster.

A sitter of a header isn't one where you take off around the penalty spot (which he did) and have to get correct contact on a ball that is played from behind you, getting that contact on the ball is a difficult skill in itself, and if you've ever played you'll realise how much harder it is to head a ball that is played laterally compared to one that is crossed from behind. It's all in the neck muscles and the 'sweet spot' is far smaller.

He does well to get that connection and get the power on the ball, the direction is off but he makes the keeper work. Should he do better and score, most probably, but I wouldn't say it was a sitter. I'd criticise him more for missing the one where the defender misses it later on because that is where the "natural striker's instinct" isn't quite there. I criticised Sturridge for the same in the previous game though where he lacked that "natural striker instinct" to play as if the ball will always make it to you. So both of them failed here.

Sturridge doesn't get criticised more at all, he missed 4 great chances in the previous game and should have scored, even Jürgen said, what should I do, tell Daniel to score those chances, eh knows he should etc. Same with Bobby, but I don't need to join in when you're leading the chorus, he gets far more abuse than he deserves and that is thanks to your little campaign against him. You want to deny that, anyone wants to be convinced of that just take a trip into the match thread last night, you had nothing to say other than slag Bobby off, like I said Mick, it's sad but I'll leave you to that.

A sitter of a header isn't one where you take off around the penalty spot (which he did) and have to get correct contact on a ball that is played from behind you, getting that contact on the ball is a difficult skill in itself, and if you've ever played you'll realise how much harder it is to head a ball that is played laterally compared to one that is crossed from behind. It's all in the neck muscles and the 'sweet spot' is far smaller.

He does well to get that connection and get the power on the ball, the direction is off but he makes the keeper work. Should he do better and score, most probably, but I wouldn't say it was a sitter. I'd criticise him more for missing the one where the defender misses it later on because that is where the "natural striker's instinct" isn't quite there. I criticised Sturridge for the same in the previous game though where he lacked that "natural striker instinct" to play as if the ball will always make it to you. So both of them failed here.

Sturridge doesn't get criticised more at all, he missed 4 great chances in the previous game and should have scored, even Jürgen said, what should I do, tell Daniel to score those chances, eh knows he should etc. Same with Bobby, but I don't need to join in when you're leading the chorus, he gets far more abuse than he deserves and that is thanks to your little campaign against him. You want to deny that, anyone wants to be convinced of that just take a trip into the match thread last night, you had nothing to say other than slag Bobby off, like I said Mick, it's sad but I'll leave you to that.

It was a sitter mate, FFS I can't believe you're denying it  .

It was a sitter mate, FFS I can't believe you're denying it  .

Not for me, as I've played the game enough to know that I'd bury that ball 9 out of 10 times if it was crossed from the byline and 5/10 when it's crossed from where Mane crossed it I'd connect with my shoulder, probably 3 out of 10 I'd knock it wide getting far too square a contact and trying to glance it isn't an option. so I'd maybe score it 2 out 10. Given I'm pretty crap in comparison to these lads I'd say it was a 50/50 goal, that's not a sitter.

Not for me, as I've played the game enough to know that I'd bury that ball 9 out of 10 times if it was crossed from the byline and 5/10 when it's crossed from where Mane crossed it I'd connect with my shoulder, probably 3 out of 10 I'd knock it wide getting far too square a contact and trying to glance it isn't an option. so I'd maybe score it 2 out 10. Given I'm pretty crap in comparison to these lads I'd say it was a 50/50 goal, that's not a sitter.

  Luke, if that'd been Sturridge, or perish the thought Benteke, I wonder if you'd have called it 50/50 . And if you'd have scored that chance twice out of ten you weren't no centre forward either  .

Luke, if that'd been Sturridge, or perish the thought Benteke, I wonder if you'd have called it 50/50 . And if you'd have scored that chance twice out of ten you weren't no centre forward either  .

I wasn't a centre forward, I was more like Mane in my day, but I've still been in those positions enough to know how much the sweet spot changes depending on the angle of the cross. From where that was delivered and the run Firmino made it was one of the more difficult or put differently "smaller" sweet spots to get right.

Benteke I might criticise more for missing that as that was a large part of his game, like any big target man you expect them to do better with the more difficult headers as that's how they've plied their trade. Sturridge I would have viewed exactly the same.

I wasn't a centre forward, I was more like Mane in my day, but I've still been in those positions enough to know how much the sweet spot changes depending on the angle of the cross. From where that was delivered and the run Firmino made it was one of the more difficult or put differently "smaller" sweet spots to get right.

Benteke I might criticise more for missing that as that was a large part of his game, like any big target man you expect them to do better with the more difficult headers as that's how they've plied their trade. Sturridge I would have viewed exactly the same.

Well I was a centre half or centre mid Luke, and I'd have scored that header more than two out of ten. As a centre half I played at a good level, and believe me mate if I gave fellas free headers in the middle of the goals 8 yards out they generally scored, particularly from a cross as good as good as that one. That's why I generally didn't do it , it was a sitter mate.

Well I was a centre half or centre mid Luke, and I'd have scored that header more than two out of ten. As a centre half I played at a good level, and believe me mate if I gave fellas free headers in the middle of the goals 8 yards out they generally scored, particularly from a cross as good as good as that one. That's why I generally didn't do it , it was a sitter mate.

Mick we're going to have to agree to disagree. Two things to note on this, Mane isn't even in the picture so you can see how far back he crossed it from and secondly the shape that Firmino is having to make to get the contact (which was only minutely off) onto the ball.

If that's a sitter in your book then fair enough, it isn't in mine and never will be.