Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

So you think it wouldn't be moronic to chuck 60 million quid at a £20 million player?
You think that would be entirely sensible do you?

I'm not engaging with your arguments because you are in a fantasy world where saying something could happen means it should happen, no matter how outrageous.

20 million, whatever, it's just a figure to use as an example, and I didn't actually mention any players or their worth, so try again.

I used Pulisic and 60m just as an example too - you seem to have missed this, although clearly stated. Given you then accused me of "talking about chucking 60 million quid for a 20 million pound player" and I only used this 60m figure in the context of buying Pulisic, I think I'm justified in understanding you valued Pulisic (the player in my example) at 20m. If you're not too tired of arguing (I find that very hard to believe, given your record), please do explain how on earth that's not mentioning a player and their worth.

Now read back what I actually wrote

I will. You said:

If the club will simply not spend any sort of money, explain why we have so many £20m plus players and £30m plus players in our squad.

To which I replied: hmm, not that many, actually.

But if you wanna talk about players they've signed since they became owners (which is a different thing to what you actually said before, taking your words at "face value"), then well: if a quick wikipedia look is correct, 7 players in the 20 to 30m range and 3 over 30 in 7 seasons. Is that a lot?

If I went to do a full check of the market where we play, I think I'd likely find that our competitions may have more than that in their squads right now, as opposed to diluted in seven years.

When you post something worth engaging with instead of fantasy, semantics and things you made up in your head about "underlying context" I might do it.
Then again, I might not, because I find nothing more boring than talking about fantasy scenarios which will never happen in the real world.

Yes, teams overpaying for players they want. Never happened, never will. Pure fantasy.

As for FSG - I don't live in that deluded childish world where everything is so black and white and I find it underwhelming to see grown ups doing so, in fact. Here you're either a "FSG basher" or you go through great lengths to hide any issues below the carpet. You either believe Klopp word for word (when it suits you, of course), or you don't trust him. Bla bla bla. Personally I think FSG have done great things for our club in the past few years, appointing Klopp among them. I think they've changed their strategy along the way, particularly after Kenny and Comolli, which explains why they went two whole seasons without spending over £15m. They're great at increasing our revenues and taking the club forward off the pitch. I do think our willingness to spend should be higher, however.

According to Jürgen yes, but no one wants to sell to us.

But oddly when someone wants one of our best players, we find a way to make it happen for them.

Who have we tried to buy ?

Who have we tried to buy ?

Pulisic, Draxler & somebody else.

How is Pulusic a £20M player?

City bought Sane for £37M and Pulisic is rated just as highly.

And there is our issue, no way we are paying that much for a youngster so yes the club are right no one wants to do a deal when I imagine we are talking about £20-£25M.
Maybe the a club though the pull of Klopp would be enough for Pulisic to want to run into the arms of LFC 

Pretty much guaranteed Brandt story in the Summer goes the same way.

We may have acquired about them but it hardly looks like we have made a hard core effort or even an official approach

It all feels like very light weight from our side 

How is Pulusic a £20M player?

City bought Sane for £37M and Pulisic is rated just as highly.

And there is our issue, no way we are paying that much for a youngster so yes the club are right no one wants to do a deal when I imagine we are talking about £20-£25M.
Maybe the a club though the pull of Klopp would be enough for Pulisic to want to run into the arms of LFC 

Pretty much guaranteed Brandt story in the Summer goes the same way.

People were just using £20m as an arbitrary figure

Replace that figure with anything, it was just an example

People were just using £20m as an arbitrary figure

Replace that figure with anything, it was just an example

Oh ok fair enough, didn't read the whole thread.

To help those that are clearly struggling:

For illustration purposes I value my house at £1m.

If someone came along and said I'll give you £1.1m but you have to be homeless for the next 6 months, I'm going to tell them to do one. Not because they haven't met my valuation but because circumstances dictate that I am unable to sell at this time. I am unwilling to put myself in a homeless position to earn more than my valuation.

What if you had 2 million and you were homeless Luke?

Would you offer that for a £1.2m valued property? Do you think they'd sell? Do you think if you were in a position to spend that much money you'd be arsed about the premium? If it was the one you had your heart set on? If you'd be in a much better position?

Why are you F***ing homeless with that much money floating about anyway? Surely you should have got that sorted out in the last transfer window before it come to that.

P.S I don't think we are quite homeless just yet, but I think we could perhaps be in sheltered accommodation, and with all that money perhaps we should get ourselves sorted out even if we don't like the price.

Nobody likes a rich kid pretending be a one of the common people.

What if you had 2 million and you were homeless Luke?

Would you offer that for a £1.2m valued property? Do you think they'd sell? Do you think if you were in a position to spend that much money you'd be arsed about the premium? If it was the one you had your heart set on? If you'd be in a much better position?

Why are you f**king homeless with that much money floating about anyway? Surely you should have got that sorted out in the last transfer window before it come to that.

P.S I don't think we are quite homeless just yet, but I think we could perhaps be in sheltered accommodation, and with all that money perhaps we should get ourselves sorted out even if we don't like the price.

Nobody likes a rich kid pretending be a one of the common people.

You wouldn't be homeless, you could always rent.

Not to mention, we are talking about selling our vacation home here (Pulisic isn't one of their main play every game players) not our only house (Reus, Aubamayeng).

What if you had 2 million and you were homeless Luke?

Would you offer that for a £1.2m valued property? Do you think they'd sell? Do you think if you were in a position to spend that much money you'd be arsed about the premium? If it was the one you had your heart set on? If you'd be in a much better position?

Why are you f**king homeless with that much money floating about anyway? Surely you should have got that sorted out in the last transfer window before it come to that.

P.S I don't think we are quite homeless just yet, but I think we could perhaps be in sheltered accommodation, and with all that money perhaps we should get ourselves sorted out even if we don't like the price.

Nobody likes a rich kid pretending be a one of the common people.

I like your play on the analogy mate but I did quite clearly state that there was no alternative accommodation.

If we do change the parameters a little and go with yours, the truth of that one is that we're now the selling club so let's see it from their point of view:

Accept £40m (double the purchasing club's (LFC) initial valuation) and attempt to buy a player that would have the same 'current market conditions' premium applied which we're now introducting as double. So they'd ask for a £24m player (your £1.2m converted) for £40m which they'd be told to do one, we want £48m would be the reply. So they may be forced to buy within the means of what we gave them which indeed is £40m and when they spent that they'd only really have a £20m player which when you look at it is exactly what they started with, so in reality what have they gained?

Unless they're looking to sell up or wait until the summer (when they'd also sell their £20m player for £20m) then they've nothing to gain because just like your house, no matter how much it goes up in value so do all other houses in your area.

So as much as it might seem nice to suggest receiving £2m could actually get us a £1.2m property in exchange for our old £1m property the truth is that if we're actually applying the same premium it wouldn't. Not in this window anyway.

We have one single £30m plus player in our squad And 3 over £20m if I'm not mistaken. If you think that means the club is willing to spend any sort of money, then there you go, this debate is pointless. Strange fantasy indeed.

If we're going over Klopp's words and taking them at "face value" (because apparently it's really important that we all do), why not take this into consideration: "Clubs are saying ‘No, we have half a year to go, we cannot find another player like this, we prefer to take money in the summer than a few pounds more in the winter than whatever’." A few pounds more? What about a lot?

I think you'd be surprised at the value of our squad, I can think of at least 6 players above £30 million, some considerably, and most of the rest of the first team are £20 million plus

I used Pulisic and 60m just as an example too - you seem to have missed this, although clearly stated. Given you then accused me of "talking about chucking 60 million quid for a 20 million pound player" and I only used this 60m figure in the context of buying Pulisic, I think I'm justified in understanding you valued Pulisic (the player in my example) at 20m. If you're not too tired of arguing (I find that very hard to believe, given your record), please do explain how on earth that's not mentioning a player and their worth.

I will. You said:

To which I replied: hmm, not that many, actually.

But if you wanna talk about players they've signed since they became owners (which is a different thing to what you actually said before, taking your words at "face value"), then well: if a quick wikipedia look is correct, 7 players in the 20 to 30m range and 3 over 30 in 7 seasons. Is that a lot?

If I went to do a full check of the market where we play, I think I'd likely find that our competitions may have more than that in their squads right now, as opposed to diluted in seven years.

Yes, teams overpaying for players they want. Never happened, never will. Pure fantasy.

As for FSG - I don't live in that deluded childish world where everything is so black and white and I find it underwhelming to see grown ups doing so, in fact. Here you're either a "FSG basher" or you go through great lengths to hide any issues below the carpet. You either believe Klopp word for word (when it suits you, of course), or you don't trust him. Bla bla bla. Personally I think FSG have done great things for our club in the past few years, appointing Klopp among them. I think they've changed their strategy along the way, particularly after Kenny and Comolli, which explains why they went two whole seasons without spending over £15m. They're great at increasing our revenues and taking the club forward off the pitch. I do think our willingness to spend should be higher, however.

Listen, you can make all the posts you want, and dress it up however you want, but the bottom line is that you think in terms of fantasy, not reality.


Given your own track record of going completely away from what was said and into a fantasy world where we spend vast amounts we don't need to on players that Klopp was told weren't available, and then making sh*t up about "underlying context" and all the rest of the mind reading sh*t you came out with, I don't think I'm the one with the problem here.
In point of fact, you are not debating, you are arguing for the sake of it because you think that if it works on paper it works in the real world.
It doesn't, so it makes no difference how often you espouse your theory that offering enough money solves every problem, because the reality is that it won't happen.
So keep on trotting out these bizarre fantasies, and keep on thinking that overpaying for a player by 40 million quid is absolutely fine, because theory says so, keep on about your "underlying context", and keep on having tantrums because you think you've been insulted.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, I'll carry on paying attention to what the manager says, taking him at face value and trusting his word.

Because we only sign players from top clubs, right? Like Southampton or Newcastle (who are in the Championship, ironically). Or Augsburg.

Would you have preferred us to buy Pogba or Mane?

Ask Swab

Just be careful how you do so 

And yet I've said F**k all controversial, nasty or anything else.
All I've said repeatedly is that I'll take Klopp at his word, which is seemingly a crime now.

Nice little snide remark though, after some pluses are you?

Listen, you can make all the posts you want, and dress it up however you want, but the bottom line is that you think in terms of fantasy, not reality.


Given your own track record of going completely away from what was said and into a fantasy world where we spend vast amounts we don't need to on players that Klopp was told weren't available, and then making sh*t up about "underlying context" and all the rest of the mind reading sh*t you came out with, I don't think I'm the one with the problem here.
In point of fact, you are not debating, you are arguing for the sake of it because you think that if it works on paper it works in the real world.
It doesn't, so it makes no difference how often you espouse your theory that offering enough money solves every problem, because the reality is that it won't happen.
So keep on trotting out these bizarre fantasies, and keep on thinking that overpaying for a player by 40 million quid is absolutely fine, because theory says so, keep on about your "underlying context", and keep on having tantrums because you think you've been insulted.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, I'll carry on paying attention to what the manager says, taking him at face value and trusting his word.

Sure, sure, although calling me a moron, I'll grant you the gracious exit from the debate.  I engaged with your arguments, showed you were simply wrong on a couple of things, and never once said we should overpay by 40m (again, you only think that's the case because you made up that 20m figure you then backtracked and pretended was just an example), but there you go, leave on your high horse  if I can suggest a destination, I heard people have great fun in the Current Affairs board.

To be fair the analogy stuff has mashed my small brain now.

The point I was making is that if there is a geniune need for something then the price becomes a little less important.

You don't want to be mugged off completely, but you do want improve your lot.

We have a genuine need for players. Yesterday that was being disputed, but today now Klopp has admitted it himself that seems to have gone away.

Now it's the old 'no value in January' line being trotted out. I actually accept that this is a sellers market.

But we have a genuine sporting need here for enforcements. A need that I said in the Summer wasn't solved properly. Positions in the squad that weren't filled. Now it's biting us on the arse. So that's it is it? We tried but were unsuccessful? Not enough value.

Klopp has now admitted that there is a sporting desire for us to bring players in, that the team needs help. If he is admitting that then perhaps there is something to be read into it.

Anyway, as Liverpool fans we are well versed in amateur accountancy, but it is watching us on the pitch where I get my kicks.

I remain hopeful one day that Klopp lands the players he wants, and makes u the team we can be, but for now, in the league at least, the wait goes on, and another season passes us by.

I think you'd be surprised at the value of our squad, I can think of at least 6 players above £30 million, some considerably, and most of the rest of the first team are £20 million plus

We were talking about transfer expenditure mate. I understand what you're saying: Coutinho is worth more than 30m, for example, but he was signed for far less, which was the point being discussed.

Would you have preferred us to buy Pogba or Mane?

Mané, for sure! I was not complaining about signing players from Southampton or Newcastle. I was just pointing out that it's not as if we target players from the top clubs challenging for honors. I'd further suggest that while a club fighting for the league or even European qualification might not be willing to sacrifice success for money, one in mid-table mediocrity (such as some of our recent signings have come from) might be more inclined to do so.

Sure, sure, although calling me a moron, I'll grant you the gracious exit from the debate.  I engaged with your arguments, showed you were simply wrong on a couple of things, and never once said we should overpay by 40m (again, you only think that's the case because you made up that 20m figure you then backtracked and pretended was just an example), but there you go, leave on your high horse  if I can suggest a destination, I heard people have great fun in the Current Affairs board.

I didn't call you a moron.
Read it again.

You engaged with nothing, you just made sh*t up, then had a tantrum when you were called on it.
I said I took Klopp at his word, and for some reason, you took great exception to that, and started banging on about things that exist only in your mind.
Underlying context my arse.

As if that wasn't bad enough, you then start going on that we could get any player if only we threw enough money at the (non) selling club., which might work on paper, but again, this is the real world.

I understand that economists live in a world of their own, somewhat disconnected from reality, but really, this nonsense you write is a fantasy too far.

La la la la la ..............

I didn't call you a moron.
Read it again.

You engaged with nothing, you just made sh*t up, then had a tantrum when you were called on it.
I said I took Klopp at his word, and for some reason, you took great exception to that, and started banging on about things that exist only in your mind.
Underlying context my arse.

As if that wasn't bad enough, you then start going on that we could get any player if only we threw enough money at the (non) selling club., which might work on paper, but again, this is the real world.

I understand that economists live in a world of their own, somewhat disconnected from reality, but really, this nonsense you write is a fantasy too far.

Yes, sure. Clubs being convinced to sell by money - pure fantasy. I knew I shouldn't trust my IS-LM model.

La la la la la ..............

Nice new avatar Debs!

La la la la la ..............

Lallana?

To be fair the analogy stuff has mashed my small brain now.

The point I was making is that if there is a geniune need for something then the price becomes a little less important.

You don't want to be mugged off completely, but you do want improve your lot.

We have a genuine need for players. Yesterday that was being disputed, but today now Klopp has admitted it himself that seems to have gone away.

Now it's the old 'no value in January' line being trotted out. I actually accept that this is a sellers market.

But we have a genuine sporting need here for enforcements. A need that I said in the Summer wasn't solved properly. Positions in the squad that weren't filled. Now it's biting us on the arse. So that's it is it? We tried but were unsuccessful? Not enough value.

Klopp has now admitted that there is a sporting desire for us to bring players in, that the team needs help. If he is admitting that then perhaps there is something to be read into it.

Anyway, as Liverpool fans we are well versed in amateur accountancy, but it is watching us on the pitch where I get my kicks.

I remain hopeful one day that Klopp lands the players he wants, and makes u the team we can be, but for now, in the league at least, the wait goes on, and another season passes us by.

We can all see the need, and according to Klopp, we've also offered to overpay, so unless something unexpected happens it looks like we won't be getting anyone in.

I'm speculating a lot here, when I say perhaps Klopp didn't expect to be in this position so soon, and as a result didn't add to the squad last summer as much as he would if we'd qualified for CL.
From what I know, it takes Klopp 2-3 years to build his teams, and maybe he thought pushing for top 4 with a cup run was a realistic target for this season.
Like I said, complete speculation, and there could be a thousand reasons, but it makes sense to me, and who knows, it might even have a grain of truth in it.