Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

We will have half a dozen or so games at Anfield next season where we will become frustrated because the other team have men behind the ball and we can't break them down. The reason we can't unlock their defence is because we aren't buying top quality. We aren't buying the Hazards, the Sanchez's or the Silvas of the league - we are buying the Manes.

It's great saying we need width and pace plus some work ethic so in comes Mane, but Mane doesn't have that top quality required to play for a club like ours who are expected to win every week - especially at Anfield.

I hope I'm wrong I really do. I hope Mane ups his game and turns into a world beater. But we paid a lot of money for him (through no fault of his own) and if we are struggling to break down the likes of West Brom and Stoke {which I expect} then there will be some heavy criticism coming his/Jurgens way.

Before anybody uses Leicester as an example - they were actually favourites to go down last season. Teams set up completely different against them and expected to beat them. The likes of Vardy and Mahrez had acres of space. Leicester will finish no higher than mid table this season because the likes of West Brom and Stoke will play a lot more defensive against them and man mark or focus on their key players.

We are always expected to win. Every game we play we are expected to win. ESPECIALLY at Anfield. Even the likes of f**king Chelsea park the bus against us. Looking at our business so far, I'm not convinced we have anywhere near the quality required to challenge for the title and I'm not convinced we have enough to see us over that 4th place finish either.

Hopefully Jurgens heavy metal gung ho fast paced football will be enough to see us through. If we didn't have Jürgen Klopp though we would be well and truly fu**ed with this squad in my opinion.

I've only seen about 120 mins of pre-season footie so cannot really say how we're shaping up, plus I've NEVER read into pre-season results too much it's about fitness first and performance.

But what I will say is, in those 120 minutes or so, your post paints the best picture of what I've seen so far. Still, it is hard to gauge with so many peripheral squad players, or youngsters playing in the mix-up of it all, that it makes conclusive opinions hard to determine the 'real' picture forthcoming. However, these 'problems' (failing to break teams down), aren't new and they were apparent last season and, as I said in the 120 mins I've seen this season.

So, I'd gamble that if we do have a problematic area ahead of us this season, I'm inclined to think that it will be breaking teams down, especially the teams who sit.

I'm assuming this is going to be the problem area again while hoping that Jürgen will have the defense and midfield sorted out which I'm also not sure of as yet.

We'll find out in 12 days time whether this team is set up ready to defend and attack down at the Emirates.

I've only seen about 120 mins of pre-season footie so cannot really say how we're shaping up, plus I've NEVER read into pre-season results too much it's about fitness first and performance.

But what I will say is, in those 120 minutes or so, your post paints the best picture of what I've seen so far. Still, it is hard to gauge with so many peripheral squad players, or youngsters playing in the mix-up of it all, that it makes conclusive opinions hard to determine the 'real' picture forthcoming. However, these 'problems' (failing to break teams down), aren't new and they were apparent last season and, as I said in the 120 mins I've seen this season.

So, I'd gamble that if we do have a problematic area ahead of us this season, I'm inclined to think that it will be breaking teams down, especially the teams who sit.

I'm assuming this is going to be the problem area again while hoping that Jürgen will have the defense and midfield sorted out which I'm also not sure of as yet.

We'll find out in 12 days time whether this team is set up ready to defend and attack down at the Emirates.

So basically you are saying we are fu**ed ? Can't score, no midfield and a dodgy defence

So basically you are saying we are fu**ed ? Can't score, no midfield and a dodgy defence

Not quite. 

I am saying that I am in limbo and cannot make any conclusive opinions, although the niggling possiblty that we may carry on huffing and puffing to break teams down.

In fact, I'd hazard a guess that anyone on here who has seen every second of our pre-season games is unable to say what our 'pro's and con's' will be going into the season for definite.

Pre-season isn't IMHO a cert indicator in telling how our season will start or go, into the opening months. Therefore Saint, I've never read too much into pre-season games.

I mean, we could be under the kosh for 89mins at the Emirates, with the defense at 6's and 7's, Mignolet flapping, Moreno looking for his last brain cell that was just knocked out by Giroud, Firmino and Lallana hiding, and the team looking totally bewildered with the ball in possession, and then suddenly Markovic could score off his arse cheek in the 90th minute and we've gotten 3pts and confidence from there is high and the snatch and grab will shape (not our fitness) but our mindset and galvanise us over the next handful of games.

A bit like that Stoke game a few years back where Mignolet saved a penalty, from there we kicked on, something similar could happen here in 12 days time and pre-season wouldn't have really been the indicator.

Still, it is hard to gauge with so many peripheral squad players, or youngsters playing in the mix-up of it all, that it makes conclusive opinions hard to determine the 'real' picture forthcoming.

That's a fair enough comment 'belly - it (sorta) touches on where I'm at and why I'm feeling a bit more optimistic of late.

You'll be aware that, for quite some time now, I have been wishing for "ready-made" experienced players, rather than 'kids with potential'. I put great faith in the consistency that comes with that experience. Well... I reckon this summer, Jürgen's business has centred 'round signing that experience so that, coupled with the squad being a year older anyhow, has definitely pricked my optimism for a decent season.

The 'argument' then moves on to whether or not that experience is of high enough quality to see us win what is, for me, the "Holy Grail"; the League title. Truthfully (at the moment) I'm not that optimistic. 

I'll know better come September.

none of the names on the team sheet shout out World Class and some don't even shout out CL class but this is jurgens squad now he has made his changes had his pre season worked them harder than ever before so we will soon see where we are.

none of the names on the team sheet shout out World Class and some don't even shout out CL class but this is jurgens squad now he has made his changes had his pre season worked them harder than ever before so we will soon see where we are.

I have no problems with that. I'll evaluate him in "three years".

I'll evaluate him in "three years".

Hmmm... that would bring us up to eight years of permanent "transition" - John W Henry 'likes' this. 

Personally I hope we 'know' long before that.

Hmmm... that would bring us up to eight years of permanent "transition" - John W Henry 'likes' this. 

Personally I hope we 'know' long before that.

There will be visibility leading up to that. It's just that I feel three years will be a reasonable period for evaluating a manager's performance.

Problem is if things do go badly under Jürgen we really don't have anywhere else to go under our present owners. One of the many reasons I am trying to remain positive is because the alternative is just too frightening.

Win lose or draw I think we have to stick with Jürgen even if things go tits up over the next 3 years.

It's just that I feel three years will be a reasonable period for evaluating a manager's performance.

And that, by default, is whether we win, lose or draw. Like I said: John W Henry and his investors 'like' that... no demands on them you see.

Fowler forbid but if we still haven't won anything and if the 'progress' [real or imagined] has stalled by that time then... sure we can always get another manager and evaluate him after three years too.

To be clear tho' (cause I know I'm going to have to spell it out for the benefit of some): I reckon Jürgen will be fine and I have no problem with anyone evaluating his individual performance after three seasons. In fact I'd like the same 'time-frame' to be applied to John Doublya and the boys. 

Problem is if things do go badly under Jürgen we really don't have anywhere else to go under our present owners. One of the many reasons I am trying to remain positive is because the alternative is just too frightening.

Win lose or draw I think we have to stick with Jürgen even if things go tits up over the next 3 years.

Jesus me Saint, what if Klopp decides to polish his teeth in that time, or heaven forbid stick a round peg in a square hole - Milner LB?

In all seriousness Saint, I can't be having that mate no way.

How about this alternative view:

"It's not that I do not trust Jürgen, but his competition may prove too strong for him (ultimately)."

Something to ponder about... which may also echo how some might feel around here. Who knows?

Jesus me Saint, what if Klopp decides to polish his teeth in that time, or heaven forbid stick a round peg in a square hole - Milner LB?

In all seriousness Saint, I can't be having that mate no way.

Seriously, what's the alternative ? Sack Jürgen who at least can supposedly do more with less and bring in who? Someone who needs financial backing that they just won't get?

We struggle to attract top players now, how will we fare if we sit mid table for the next three years.

For me if Jürgen fails it is FSG that will need to go.

Seriously, what's the alternative ? Sack Jürgen who at least can supposedly do more with less and bring in who? Someone who needs financial backing that they just won't get?

We struggle to attract top players now, how will we fare if we sit mid table for the next three years.

For me if Jürgen fails it is FSG that will need to go.

Agree with this Saint.

Seriously, what's the alternative ? Sack Jürgen who at least can supposedly do more with less and bring in who? Someone who needs financial backing that they just won't get?

We struggle to attract top players now, how will we fare if we sit mid table for the next three years.

For me if Jürgen fails it is FSG that will need to go.

I am trying to keep a lid on my anxiety and as we haven't played a single league game yet we have to wait and see how it all fits together as a team. I cant believe Jürgen would turn down the chance of two or three World class players unless he knew what the score was when he came and is getting on with his job under the terms he agreed. For me Mignolet is a RED FLAG not replacing him with a better keeper is worrying because we know he is going to flap and make mistakes that will cost us goals and points.

Jesus me Saint, what if Klopp decides to polish his teeth in that time, or heaven forbid stick a round peg in a square hole - Milner LB?

In all seriousness Saint, I can't be having that mate no way.

you been eating spicy food you keep on repeating yourself ...see above

you been eating spicy food you keep on repeating yourself ...see above

oops.

Seriously, what's the alternative ? Sack Jürgen who at least can supposedly do more with less and bring in who? Someone who needs financial backing that they just won't get?

We struggle to attract top players now, how will we fare if we sit mid table for the next three years.

For me if Jürgen fails it is FSG that will need to go.

I'm sorry, if Jürgen doesn't do his job, with his players and with his transfers it's on his head.

No point content in finishing 6th to 8th every year with a manager who is happy with the boards workings.

He is as guilty as FSG because he is firmly in their bed and enjoying the working relationship they have.

If after 3 years nothing has come to pass then like Rodgers, we'll have to hold our hands up and say h has bitten off more than he can chew, with this poisoned chalice.

Hopefully it won't come to that.

I'm sorry, if Jürgen doesn't do his job, with his players and with his transfers it's on his head.

No point content in finishing 6th to 8th every year with a manager who is happy with the boards workings.

He is as guilty as FSG because he is firmly in their bed and enjoying the working relationship they have.

maybe the problem all along has been FSG and their lack of any real ambition for the club. I watched us beat Barca 2-1 at the Nou camp this morning from 2007 the Chelsea to reach our SECOND CL FINAL in 2 years it was like watching another club because we do not resemble the team or club which Hick and Gillette bought in 2007 and FSG have had 6 years  now and have a league Cup to show for it and they sacked that manager

maybe the problem all along has been FSG and their lack of any real ambition for the club. I watched us beat Barca 2-1 at the Nou camp this morning from 2007 the Chelsea to reach our SECOND CL FINAL in 2 years it was like watching another club because we do not resemble the team or club which Hick and Gillette bought in 2007 and FSG have had 6 years  now and have a league Cup to show for it and they sacked that manager

Probably is FSG.

Anyway, before we start slashing our wrists at this morbid topic I'd like to try and enjoy the new season with hope and a certain amount of expectation.

Note to self, enjoy the present.

Probably is FSG.

Anyway, before we start slashing our wrists at this morbid topic I'd like to try and enjoy the new season with hope and a certain amount of expectation.

Note to self, enjoy the present.

the present is we got beat isn't it and we play Barca on Saturday at their favourite ground.  I can only hope that the lads have been training before games and are leggy when playing so a good rest and next weekend we can make Wenger look a tw*t again

I'm sorry, if Jürgen doesn't do his job, with his players and with his transfers it's on his head.

No point content in finishing 6th to 8th every year with a manager who is happy with the boards workings.

He is as guilty as FSG because he is firmly in their bed and enjoying the working relationship they have.

If after 3 years nothing has come to pass then like Rodgers, we'll have to hold our hands up and say h has bitten off more than he can chew, with this poisoned chalice.

Hopefully it won't come to that.

I think Jürgen was brought in not only because he has had success in the past, but because he is willing to work without wanting to breaking the bank for players. I just don't see any alternative IF this doesn't work unless we change owners.

I don't really see it as Jürgen being in bed with FSG, simply that FSG have handpicked a manager that actually believes what FSG have wanted all along. Certainly almost every other top manager would have been demanding top players if they were expected to challenge and lowering expectations if they didn't get them.

For me this is FSG's last roll of the dice.   

Probably is FSG.

Anyway, before we start slashing our wrists at this morbid topic I'd like to try and enjoy the new season with hope and a certain amount of expectation.

Note to self, enjoy the present.

Too late now mate....have you got any spare plasters