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      Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

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      stuey
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12949: Jul 26, 2017 02:14:06 pm
      Jürgen insists the club are not afraid to spend heavily this summer with VVD still very much on the agenda.

      http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/Jürgen-klopp-insists-liverpool-not-10871319
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12950: Jul 26, 2017 06:43:47 pm
      Great interview of Klopp while in Hong Kong by Mel Reddy

      http://www.talkaloadofbull.com/story/inside-the-managerial-mind-of-liverpools-Jürgen-klopp/index.html
      crouchinho
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12951: Jul 27, 2017 03:32:45 am

      Awesome read.

      The bit about Firmino is exactly what some of us having been saying. It's not always as crystal clear as 'a striker needs to score goals'.

      Like I've said before - Bobby is the glue to our attack. He's the striker but he isn't the striker. He is the crux of our attack to turn one striker in to four strikers all playing around his movement and possession.

      And the improvement in our side could be significant enough to surprise a large majority of our fans that are starving for transfers and our rivals who may see us as a stagnant side. I'm confident.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12952: Jul 27, 2017 03:55:50 am
      Awesome read.

      The bit about Firmino is exactly what some of us having been saying. It's not always as crystal clear as 'a striker needs to score goals'.

      Like I've said before - Bobby is the glue to our attack. He's the striker but he isn't the striker. He is the crux of our attack to turn one striker in to four strikers all playing around his movement and possession.

      And the improvement in our side could be significant enough to surprise a large majority of our fans that are starving for transfers and our rivals who may see us as a stagnant side. I'm confident.

      Absolutely outstanding read and gives all those "plan B", "we can't beat bus parkers" and most of all those that don't rate Bobby an insight into what I believe the best manager in the world thinks about those subjects.

      Incidentally, Jürgen agrees with me on all of them  :f_tongueincheek:

      Knows his stuff does our Jürgen.
      billythered
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12953: Jul 27, 2017 10:29:25 am
      i can't get to read it, when i click on the link it says the page is unavailable, a bit like Naby,  frustratingly , :mad: can anyone just post it please, i'll love you forever, promise  ;D  xxxxx:action-smiley-065:

      YNWA
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12954: Jul 27, 2017 01:00:44 pm
      i can't get to read it, when i click on the link it says the page is unavailable, a bit like Naby,  frustratingly , :mad: can anyone just post it please, i'll love you forever, promise  ;D  xxxxx:action-smiley-065:

      YNWA

      Try this Bill.

      https://twitter.com/melissareddy_/status/890144958577070084
      Luke92
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12955: Jul 27, 2017 01:11:56 pm
      I'm 100% with Jürgen on Firmino! I think he is an absolute gem of a player who brings the best out of people around him especially Coutinho. That's not to say they aren't fantastic players already but Bobby has great awareness of his surroundings and his team mates movement also his hard work pressing and running every game is incredible.

      There is a case for an out and out striker who might get you a few more goals per season but for me Bobby brings so much more to our game and there's very few strikers in the world I would rather have right now.

      crouchinho
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12956: Jul 27, 2017 02:19:47 pm
      Absolutely outstanding read and gives all those "plan B", "we can't beat bus parkers" and most of all those that don't rate Bobby an insight into what I believe the best manager in the world thinks about those subjects.

      Incidentally, Jürgen agrees with me on all of them  :f_tongueincheek:

      Knows his stuff does our Jürgen.

      The great thing is it debunks the majority of criticism levelled at him and the team.

      The simplistic idea that Firmino needs to bag 20+ goals as a striker is indeed that - simplistic.

      We have a potent and interchangeable attack of Bob, Phil, Mane and Salah. Good F***ing luck handling that.
      Swab
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12957: Jul 27, 2017 02:38:50 pm
      Absolutely outstanding read and gives all those "plan B", "we can't beat bus parkers" and most of all those that don't rate Bobby an insight into what I believe the best manager in the world thinks about those subjects.

      Incidentally, Jürgen agrees with me on all of them  :f_tongueincheek:

      Knows his stuff does our Jürgen.

      Indeed.
      At the top level, it's about fine margins, which is one of the reasons Rafa used to bang on about mentality a lot.
      Top coaches know this, and if people would only listen to them, they could learn a lot.
      Instead, we get people who insist they know better than one of the finest managers in the world.

      I blame the interwebz ;)
      Scottbot
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12958: Jul 27, 2017 10:25:16 pm
      The great thing is it debunks the majority of criticism levelled at him and the team.

      The simplistic idea that Firmino needs to bag 20+ goals as a striker is indeed that - simplistic.

      We have a potent and interchangeable attack of Bob, Phil, Mane and Salah. Good f**king luck handling that.

      I'm not so sure if debunks anything as such regards to Firmino. If Klopp had used a similar tactic at Dortmund i.e. Using a false nine who brought others into play and was less reliant on X number of goals then I'd be thinking its tried and tested, this is how Jürgen does things and it worked before. But at Dortmund he had a couple of Rolls Royce number 9s in Lewandowski and then Aubameyang. Two very different players but both out and out centre forwards.
      « Last Edit: Jul 27, 2017 10:30:10 pm by Scottbot »
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12959: Jul 27, 2017 10:34:13 pm

      'Ah interesting...so you think that is what running is? Incorrect'.

      Scorned!
      Sir bob 3
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12960: Jul 27, 2017 11:04:43 pm
      Hi guys , i've been reading this forum for over 4 yrs and have finally decided to start giving my opinion.

      My biggest worry about the upcoming season is that we don't have a reliable top striker. No team has ever won our league without a go-to striker who gets one sniff in a tight game and puts it away.

      IMO we need all our midfielders to step up a few gears and perform consistently. Also our keepers are fragile and will be found wanting. Fullback positions are a liability that will be found out.

      C'mon Jürgen get nasty. That's what this team needs.
      racerx34
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12961: Jul 27, 2017 11:45:40 pm
      Hi guys , i've been reading this forum for over 4 yrs and have finally decided to start giving my opinion.

      My biggest worry about the upcoming season is that we don't have a reliable top striker.

      C'mon Jürgen get nasty. That's what this team needs.

      "One plus Solanke?" *laughs*
      https://twitter.com/TheRedmenTV/status/885424784930205696

      ps Hi littleface :D
      « Last Edit: Jul 27, 2017 11:54:26 pm by racerx34 »
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12962: Jul 28, 2017 12:15:25 am
      I'm not so sure if debunks anything as such regards to Firmino. If Klopp had used a similar tactic at Dortmund i.e. Using a false nine who brought others into play and was less reliant on X number of goals then I'd be thinking its tried and tested, this is how Jürgen does things and it worked before. But at Dortmund he had a couple of Rolls Royce number 9s in Lewandowski and then Aubameyang. Two very different players but both out and out centre forwards.

      Good point.

      Of course, nothing at all has been debunked. This particular argument is naive, as though to say a 20+ goal scorer for e.g. cannot "glue" an attack together. It's utter nonsense and is only used as an argument because Firmino isn't a 20+ goal scorer. I wonder if Lewandowski or Aubameyang were derided or debunked for being the # 9's they were in Dortmund, or any other striker in world history? Of course not.

      Klopp has his opinions - like Mignolet staying #1. ;) Persisting and "transforming" Miner into a LB. :D (I've read it all now!). But just because Klopp thinks Firmino is the 'best player in the team NOT to score but his play benefits his team mates the most', doesn't mean he's always right. His theory was put to the test last season, and incidentally you can talk about theory/philosophy/right and wrong until the cows come home - but unless all that is actually put to the test no evidence can be gleaned.

      Unfortunately for us, evidence was gleaned and proof was in the pudding when teams started to low block us. Fact. Firmino who up until the midway point had been part of an open/expansive - counter attacking team even and he was able to play his part in this. Once, teams low blocked us he'd often go invisible to what was it? "filler material" teams. While he's decent at bringing others into play, he's not that good at making space for himself at the apex of our attack. His movement and instinct isn't there and he's easily snuffed out. You can't argue with the evidence - no matter who's telling you what.

      Klopp will likely persist with this experiment - he's now got to improve this fundamental issue if it's going to be a success playing a fake 9 at the apex of an attack. Like he said, Firmino has still got room for improvement and you can bet being more clinical and fox in the box like wouldn't have it's nosed tossed up at by Klopp for an area of improvement.
      « Last Edit: Jul 28, 2017 12:36:52 am by Beerbelly »
      crouchinho
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12963: Jul 28, 2017 01:36:03 am
      Good point.

      Of course, nothing at all has been debunked. This particular argument is naive, as though to say a 20+ goal scorer for e.g. cannot "glue" an attack together. It's utter nonsense and is only used as an argument because Firmino isn't a 20+ goal scorer. I wonder if Lewandowski or Aubameyang were derided or debunked for being the # 9's they were in Dortmund, or any other striker in world history? Of course not.

      Klopp has his opinions - like Mignolet staying #1. ;) Persisting and "transforming" Miner into a LB. :D (I've read it all now!). But just because Klopp thinks Firmino is the 'best player in the team NOT to score but his play benefits his team mates the most', doesn't mean he's always right. His theory was put to the test last season, and incidentally you can talk about theory/philosophy/right and wrong until the cows come home - but unless all that is actually put to the test no evidence can be gleaned.

      Unfortunately for us, evidence was gleaned and proof was in the pudding when teams started to low block us. Fact. Firmino who up until the midway point had been part of an open/expansive - counter attacking team even and he was able to play his part in this. Once, teams low blocked us he'd often go invisible to what was it? "filler material" teams. While he's decent at bringing others into play, he's not that good at making space for himself at the apex of our attack. His movement and instinct isn't there and he's easily snuffed out. You can't argue with the evidence - no matter who's telling you what.

      Klopp will likely persist with this experiment - he's now got to improve this fundamental issue if it's going to be a success playing a fake 9 at the apex of an attack. Like he said, Firmino has still got room for improvement and you can bet being more clinical and fox in the box like wouldn't have it's nosed tossed up at by Klopp for an area of improvement.

      What a load of waffle.

      It's laid out in detail for you and you still call Klopp's plans "an experiment".

      My favourite part is you - with all your coaching badges and managerial history - essentially condescend Klopp here:

      Klopp has his opinions - like Mignolet staying #1. ;) Persisting and "transforming" Miner into a LB. :D (I've read it all now!). But just because Klopp thinks Firmino is the 'best player in the team NOT to score but his play benefits his team mates the most', doesn't mean he's always right.

      You actually talk that much nonsense you're believing your own turd-filled ramblings to the point where you think you're in a position to speak down on a manager about a system he created that had us playing the best football in the country for six months and achieved what everyone was expecting.
      FL Red
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12964: Jul 28, 2017 02:04:08 am
      What a load of waffle.

      It's laid out in detail for you and you still call Klopp's plans "an experiment".

      My favourite part is you - with all your coaching badges and managerial history - essentially condescend Klopp here:

      You actually talk that much nonsense you're believing your own turd-filled ramblings to the point where you think you're in a position to speak down on a manager about a system he created that had us playing the best football in the country for six months and achieved what everyone was expecting.
      I was expecting us to win a cup and finish challenging for the title. Was there some consensus I'm not aware of where supporters only wanted to (narrowly) hold on to 4th place?

      I think It's funny you of all people talking about condescending as that's your go to tactic when someone disagrees with you.

      (I'll be silently waiting for your condescending rebuttal to me next)
      crouchinho
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12965: Jul 28, 2017 02:43:19 am
      I was expecting us to win a cup and finish challenging for the title. Was there some consensus I'm not aware of where supporters only wanted to (narrowly) hold on to 4th place?

      I think It's funny you of all people talking about condescending as that's your go to tactic when someone disagrees with you.

      (I'll be silently waiting for your condescending rebuttal to me next)


      No, mate.

      'Condescending' is when someone posts something opposite to the consensus in the transfer board and you get a half dozen posts submitted within ten minutes hounding you down.

      And when Jürgen comes out and explains the rationale behind his decisions (which matches with the post that gets criticised) it's funny how the responses dry up.

      If you want condescending, look up the grammatically over-loaded posts in the transfer board and you'll see what condescending really is.

      There's a mentality on the forum that there's one opinion that has to be shared and that we need A, B, C through to Z to happen before we're going to be serious about challenging for silverware and anyone who says otherwise is an FSG-loving, clueless, deflecting simpleton.

      Unfounded hysteria and envy just because other teams are buying players for a lot of money.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12966: Jul 28, 2017 04:12:23 am
      What a load of waffle.

      It's laid out in detail for you and you still call Klopp's plans "an experiment".

      My favourite part is you - with all your coaching badges and managerial history - essentially condescend Klopp here:

      You actually talk that much nonsense you're believing your own turd-filled ramblings to the point where you think you're in a position to speak down on a manager about a system he created that had us playing the best football in the country for six months and achieved what everyone was expecting.

      Let's just jog the memories of the forum before we go any further shall we.

      You lecture somebody who disagrees with the manager's POV about a particular player in a particular position. Yet, you not only disagreed with the previous manager on many things who was also more qualified and more experienced in the game of Association Football than you, but you also personally attacked and character assassinated that same manager too.

      You of all people should hang your head in shame for the way you have carried on, on this forum with regards to our manager's. But you don't because that brass neck of yours is as bolshy now as it was back then when you personally attacked our manager.

      You have a history of being very possessive of who and what you agree with. Let's not forget you were brought down a peg or three when a poster quite rightly called you out for using this forum as a vehicle for plugging a player, when you had to be reminded that this is a Liverpool F.C forum and the bigger picture here is the team and not the one player who you vociferously opined over. Then again, it's of no surprise because it's the same player who is in question now, in this current toss.

      And now, I'll rightly remind you that you are not going to make a deity out of Klopp, and nor are you going to turn this forum into a cult-fest where every person has to agree with the decisions and views made by Klopp. Do you understand that? I mean, you of all people should understand this, considering you had the temerity to disagree with the previous manager, who by your same sudden standards was more qualified and experienced than you. This doesn't suddenly change now we have a new manager, this doesn't suddenly become Orwellian.

      I haven't character assassinated Klopp like you did our previous manager. I haven't gone on about his white-teeth, wife, car, flipping the triangle, portrait or any of that other meaningless, petty, immature sh*t. I disagree with his view on a particular footballing matter. That's it. If you want to twist it (file that under more of your BS), that I am condescending and speaking down on him (again ironic coming from you), to persuade yourself and others in the hope of getting votes, then that is up to you. But we both know that's BS.

      « Last Edit: Jul 28, 2017 04:32:49 am by Beerbelly »
      crouchinho
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12967: Jul 28, 2017 04:40:19 am
      Let's just jog the memories of the forum before we go any further shall we.

      You lecture somebody who disagrees with the manager's POV about a particular player in a particular position. Yet, you not only disagreed with the previous manager on many things who was also more qualified and more experienced in the game of Association Football than you, but you also personally attacked and character assassinated that same manager too.

      After he left i called him an amateur for our club. He never achieved anything close to the magnitude of Klopp before coming here and he was found out after building a team around the best striker in the world and then allowing the club to trade him for Lambert and Balotelli.

      Klopp achieved more in his first season which was 3 months in when he took the job than Rodgers did in his career here.

      Who else's character have i assassinated? Hodgson? Is that who you're going with? Because it sure wasn't Rafa.

      You have a history of being very possessive of who and what you agree with. Let's not forget you were brought down a peg or three when a poster quite rightly called you out for using this forum as a vehicle for plugging a player, when you had to be reminded that this is a Liverpool F.C forum and the bigger picture here is the team and not the one player who you vociferously opined over. Then again, it's of no surprise because it's the same player who is in question now, in this current toss.

      Who did i plug? Who was the poster? Why three pegs? I genuinely can't recall what you're talking about here.

      And now, I'll rightly remind you that you are not going to make a deity out of Klopp, and nor are you going to turn this forum into a cult-fest where every person has to agree with the decisions and views made by Klopp. Do you understand that? I mean, you of all people should understand this, considering you had the temerity to disagree with the previous manager, who by your same sudden standards was more qualified and experienced than you. This doesn't suddenly change now we have a new manager, this doesn't suddenly become Orwellian.

      I haven't character assassinated Klopp like you did our previous manager. I haven't gone on about his white-teeth, wife, car, flipping the triangle, portrait or any of that other meaningless, petty, immature sh*t. I disagree with his view on a particular footballing matter. That's it. If you want to twist it (file that under more of your BS), that I am condescending and speaking down on him (again ironic coming from you), to persuade yourself and others in the hope of getting votes, then that is up to you. But we both know that's BS.

      More hyperbolic waffle.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12968: Jul 28, 2017 05:23:26 am

      Roberto Firmino.  :roll:


      Son of a Gun


      Because he made a complete arse out of you; though in fairness you achieved much of that all by yourself.

      I genuinely can't recall what you're talking about here.

      Remember now?



      As for the rest - well, I'm hopeful even with you that it's starting to sink in that I don't have to agree with everything Klopp does.

      The sooner you stop playing Klopp Cop on here and playing up to a particular gallery, the better for everyone.
      « Last Edit: Jul 28, 2017 05:28:33 am by Beerbelly »
      grooveshark
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12969: Jul 28, 2017 07:01:41 am
      Good point.

      Of course, nothing at all has been debunked. This particular argument is naive, as though to say a 20+ goal scorer for e.g. cannot "glue" an attack together. It's utter nonsense and is only used as an argument because Firmino isn't a 20+ goal scorer. I wonder if Lewandowski or Aubameyang were derided or debunked for being the # 9's they were in Dortmund, or any other striker in world history? Of course not.

      Klopp has his opinions - like Mignolet staying #1. ;) Persisting and "transforming" Miner into a LB. :D (I've read it all now!). But just because Klopp thinks Firmino is the 'best player in the team NOT to score but his play benefits his team mates the most', doesn't mean he's always right. His theory was put to the test last season, and incidentally you can talk about theory/philosophy/right and wrong until the cows come home - but unless all that is actually put to the test no evidence can be gleaned.

      Unfortunately for us, evidence was gleaned and proof was in the pudding when teams started to low block us. Fact. Firmino who up until the midway point had been part of an open/expansive - counter attacking team even and he was able to play his part in this. Once, teams low blocked us he'd often go invisible to what was it? "filler material" teams. While he's decent at bringing others into play, he's not that good at making space for himself at the apex of our attack. His movement and instinct isn't there and he's easily snuffed out. You can't argue with the evidence - no matter who's telling you what.

      Klopp will likely persist with this experiment - he's now got to improve this fundamental issue if it's going to be a success playing a fake 9 at the apex of an attack. Like he said, Firmino has still got room for improvement and you can bet being more clinical and fox in the box like wouldn't have it's nosed tossed up at by Klopp for an area of improvement.
      What did people expect Klopp to say about Firmino? That he needs to score more goals if he is going to start as a forward/false 9?

      Klopp committed to playing Firmino up front,and ahead of someone who could score goals because he helps the pressing aspect of the game, and that is a decision that he will continue defending.

      As mentioned, Klopp has never played with a false 9 before. At Dortmund, he had Lucas Barios, Lewandowski and Aubameyang, and all those were out ad out forwards, the one who could come in and build up play to any meaningful degree was Lewandowski.

      I also question, why is it that the mention of a false 9 is often taken that a player cannot come in and score enough goals? The best false 9's were Wenger taking Van Persie from a support striker to a false 9, and that was replicated by Pep Guardiola with Messi. These two players epitomized that role, coming deep and playing as midfielders, yet in the final third they were as deadly as anyone else on the planet. The best version of this we saw last season with Alexis Sanchez when he was playing as a forward.........you can play as a false 9 and score goals for fun

      That creativity is something that Firmino lacks, he is not clinical enough either; you will see him score a stunner only to see him miss a chance that Championship strikers will bury in their sleep.

      There are managers that need strikers that can come in and build up play, Guardiola and Wenger are the best examples in the league, and there are managers that simply want players that can bang them in up top, Ferguson and Mourinho are the best examples of this. In any case, it is desirable that you have a forward that can bang goals and make a difference in games. That is not Firmino; and for people that think he is creative, look at instances where he played as a 10, he was not creating, or scoring, and as has been stated, he goes missing any time teams sit deep.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12970: Jul 28, 2017 07:23:40 am
      What did people expect Klopp to say about Firmino? That he needs to score more goals if he is going to start as a forward/false 9?

      Klopp committed to playing Firmino up front,and ahead of someone who could score goals because he helps the pressing aspect of the game, and that is a decision that he will continue defending.

      As mentioned, Klopp has never played with a false 9 before. At Dortmund, he had Lucas Barios, Lewandowski and Aubameyang, and all those were out ad out forwards, the one who could come in and build up play to any meaningful degree was Lewandowski.

      I also question, why is it that the mention of a false 9 is often taken that a player cannot come in and score enough goals? The best false 9's were Wenger taking Van Persie from a support striker to a false 9, and that was replicated by Pep Guardiola with Messi. These two players epitomized that role, coming deep and playing as midfielders, yet in the final third they were as deadly as anyone else on the planet. The best version of this we saw last season with Alexis Sanchez when he was playing as a forward.........you can play as a false 9 and score goals for fun

      That creativity is something that Firmino lacks, he is not clinical enough either; you will see him score a stunner only to see him miss a chance that Championship strikers will bury in their sleep.

      There are managers that need strikers that can come in and build up play, Guardiola and Wenger are the best examples in the league, and there are managers that simply want players that can bang them in up top, Ferguson and Mourinho are the best examples of this. In any case, it is desirable that you have a forward that can bang goals and make a difference in games. That is not Firmino; and for people that think he is creative, look at instances where he played as a 10, he was not creating, or scoring, and as has been stated, he goes missing any time teams sit deep.

      Exactly right.

      As you say, because he's a false 9 it doesn't therefore mean he doesn't/shouldn't/can't bang in goals.

      And as you also rightly say, Klopp is going to have to continue to defend his view and decision on this, especially when we struggle against low block teams. As the saying goes, 'the buck stops with him', so when and if we struggle again with Firmino and the low blockers these questions and concerns are going to quite rightly land at Jürgen's feet. Let's hope we don't though, and Firmino over the summer has suddenly turned himself into Ian Rush.

      That said, Klopp has been praising up Sturridge quite a bit which I think could be telling, coupled with the fact he's already stated he will not hesitate to drop under-performing strikers this season.
      « Last Edit: Jul 28, 2017 07:33:18 am by Beerbelly »
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #12971: Jul 28, 2017 12:55:48 pm

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